Dartmouth 2022

D1 Mens Lacrosse
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25748
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:49 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:04 am Ok, good news, I guess, on the recruiting front.

Question is, where does Dartmouth rank among the seven Ivy teams in the 2022 preseason rankings?

DocBarrister
I'd put them last, until proven otherwise.

We're on a nice trajectory, have had some good recruiting classes, better and better by my eye, the quality of play has definitely improved greatly, the indoor facility is already a big help in multiple ways, and the Friends program has doubled funding over the past 4 years, now on par with the top fundraising Ivies.

But we have a long way to go before making any preseason ranking claims.

But query, why would you come on this thread and ask that question?
Come on, Doc, that should be beneath you, right?
Oh, come on, MD, you are being way too defensive. I have two Ivy League degrees. Actually spent more years studying at Ivy League schools than at Johns Hopkins. My first-year medical school roommate went to Dartmouth. I think I have a legitimate interest in Ivy League lacrosse. ;)

Anyway, I have long thought that the Ivy League was the best fit for all of Hopkins athletics, not just lacrosse.

I follow Ivy League lacrosse as both a fan and as an Ivy League alumnus.

Is that so wrong??? :cry:

DocBarrister :)
Yes, I know all that.

Which is why I'm puzzled as to why you'd ask a question to which you already know the answer.

I don't think I'm being defensive at all; no one sane is putting Dartmouth ahead of other Ivies until we actually beat them.

And we all know that to be the case.

So, why ask that question if not to 'troll' a bit?
DocBarrister
Posts: 6104
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by DocBarrister »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:50 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:49 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:04 am Ok, good news, I guess, on the recruiting front.

Question is, where does Dartmouth rank among the seven Ivy teams in the 2022 preseason rankings?

DocBarrister
I'd put them last, until proven otherwise.

We're on a nice trajectory, have had some good recruiting classes, better and better by my eye, the quality of play has definitely improved greatly, the indoor facility is already a big help in multiple ways, and the Friends program has doubled funding over the past 4 years, now on par with the top fundraising Ivies.

But we have a long way to go before making any preseason ranking claims.

But query, why would you come on this thread and ask that question?
Come on, Doc, that should be beneath you, right?
Oh, come on, MD, you are being way too defensive. I have two Ivy League degrees. Actually spent more years studying at Ivy League schools than at Johns Hopkins. My first-year medical school roommate went to Dartmouth. I think I have a legitimate interest in Ivy League lacrosse. ;)

Anyway, I have long thought that the Ivy League was the best fit for all of Hopkins athletics, not just lacrosse.

I follow Ivy League lacrosse as both a fan and as an Ivy League alumnus.

Is that so wrong??? :cry:

DocBarrister :)
Yes, I know all that.

Which is why I'm puzzled as to why you'd ask a question to which you already know the answer.

I don't think I'm being defensive at all; no one sane is putting Dartmouth ahead of other Ivies until we actually beat them.

And we all know that to be the case.

So, why ask that question if not to 'troll' a bit?
Why ask the question? Because in recent years it seems that Dartmouth has been bringing in some good recruits and seems to have a good coaching staff. Why wouldn’t Dartmouth be more competitive than in recent years past?

Besides, I’m sick of the evil ACC dominating things. A stronger Ivy and B1G would be good for lacrosse.

DocBarrister 8-)
@DocBarrister
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25748
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:58 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:50 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:49 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:04 am Ok, good news, I guess, on the recruiting front.

Question is, where does Dartmouth rank among the seven Ivy teams in the 2022 preseason rankings?

DocBarrister
I'd put them last, until proven otherwise.

We're on a nice trajectory, have had some good recruiting classes, better and better by my eye, the quality of play has definitely improved greatly, the indoor facility is already a big help in multiple ways, and the Friends program has doubled funding over the past 4 years, now on par with the top fundraising Ivies.

But we have a long way to go before making any preseason ranking claims.

But query, why would you come on this thread and ask that question?
Come on, Doc, that should be beneath you, right?
Oh, come on, MD, you are being way too defensive. I have two Ivy League degrees. Actually spent more years studying at Ivy League schools than at Johns Hopkins. My first-year medical school roommate went to Dartmouth. I think I have a legitimate interest in Ivy League lacrosse. ;)

Anyway, I have long thought that the Ivy League was the best fit for all of Hopkins athletics, not just lacrosse.

I follow Ivy League lacrosse as both a fan and as an Ivy League alumnus.

Is that so wrong??? :cry:

DocBarrister :)
Yes, I know all that.

Which is why I'm puzzled as to why you'd ask a question to which you already know the answer.

I don't think I'm being defensive at all; no one sane is putting Dartmouth ahead of other Ivies until we actually beat them.

And we all know that to be the case.

So, why ask that question if not to 'troll' a bit?
Why ask the question? Because in recent years it seems that Dartmouth has been bringing in some good recruits and seems to have a good coaching staff. Why wouldn’t Dartmouth be more competitive than in recent years past?

Besides, I’m sick of the evil ACC dominating things. A stronger Ivy and B1G would be good for lacrosse.

DocBarrister 8-)
Sorry, I'm not letting you off the hook on this one, yet. You're too smart a guy. You asked "..where does Dartmouth rank among the seven Ivy teams in the 2022 preseason rankings"...not where we'll rank nationally, but rather "among" the 7 teams...you have to know we'll not be ranked by anyone above any of our fellow Ivies until we actually start beating them. That's obvious.

If you simply mis-asked the question, and were actually meaning where are Dartmouth (and the other Ivies) ranking this coming year nationally, to that more serious question, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dartmouth ranked preseason higher than they ended say in 2017...there's indeed been improvement....on the field.

I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.

Of course, if you were indeed just trolling a bit of bait, that's fine too. I simple 'sorry' would certainly suffice.
Not a big deal. We gotta win some games!
DocBarrister
Posts: 6104
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by DocBarrister »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:58 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:50 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:49 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:04 am Ok, good news, I guess, on the recruiting front.

Question is, where does Dartmouth rank among the seven Ivy teams in the 2022 preseason rankings?

DocBarrister
I'd put them last, until proven otherwise.

We're on a nice trajectory, have had some good recruiting classes, better and better by my eye, the quality of play has definitely improved greatly, the indoor facility is already a big help in multiple ways, and the Friends program has doubled funding over the past 4 years, now on par with the top fundraising Ivies.

But we have a long way to go before making any preseason ranking claims.

But query, why would you come on this thread and ask that question?
Come on, Doc, that should be beneath you, right?
Oh, come on, MD, you are being way too defensive. I have two Ivy League degrees. Actually spent more years studying at Ivy League schools than at Johns Hopkins. My first-year medical school roommate went to Dartmouth. I think I have a legitimate interest in Ivy League lacrosse. ;)

Anyway, I have long thought that the Ivy League was the best fit for all of Hopkins athletics, not just lacrosse.

I follow Ivy League lacrosse as both a fan and as an Ivy League alumnus.

Is that so wrong??? :cry:

DocBarrister :)
Yes, I know all that.

Which is why I'm puzzled as to why you'd ask a question to which you already know the answer.

I don't think I'm being defensive at all; no one sane is putting Dartmouth ahead of other Ivies until we actually beat them.

And we all know that to be the case.

So, why ask that question if not to 'troll' a bit?
Why ask the question? Because in recent years it seems that Dartmouth has been bringing in some good recruits and seems to have a good coaching staff. Why wouldn’t Dartmouth be more competitive than in recent years past?

Besides, I’m sick of the evil ACC dominating things. A stronger Ivy and B1G would be good for lacrosse.

DocBarrister 8-)
Sorry, I'm not letting you off the hook on this one, yet. You're too smart a guy. You asked "..where does Dartmouth rank among the seven Ivy teams in the 2022 preseason rankings"...not where we'll rank nationally, but rather "among" the 7 teams...you have to know we'll not be ranked by anyone above any of our fellow Ivies until we actually start beating them. That's obvious.

If you simply mis-asked the question, and were actually meaning where are Dartmouth (and the other Ivies) ranking this coming year nationally, to that more serious question, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dartmouth ranked preseason higher than they ended say in 2017...there's indeed been improvement....on the field.

I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.

Of course, if you were indeed just trolling a bit of bait, that's fine too. I simple 'sorry' would certainly suffice.
Not a big deal. We gotta win some games!
No, MD … I specifically asked where Dartmouth ranked in the Ivy League.

I’m being realistic and my question was genuine. I didn’t ask about a national ranking because I kinda assumed Dartmouth wasn’t quite there yet … gotta play the games and win, as you say.

My question was … has Dartmouth made any progress against its Ivy League peers. Maybe Dartmouth isn’t up to par with Yale, but how about Brown, Harvard, and Princeton?

And my question was for the pre-season ranking, which is inherently speculative.

Geesh … my treatment here makes me want to head back to the Cornell thread.

DocBarrister :P
@DocBarrister
User avatar
check sticks
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by check sticks »

What a pillow fight between 2 heavy weights in the Fanlax arena.

Can you believe 2,404 days have passed since the last time Dartmouth lax beat an Ivy League opponent ? I was there and can only HOPE that in 2022 Dartmouth lacrosse players will feel an enormous weight lifted from their shoulders by posting the next win...and the exhiliration that will come with that win.

Let's start with small goals. And build the resume from that point onward.
FannOLax
Posts: 2106
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:03 am

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by FannOLax »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm ...
I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.
...
Pre-season ranking generally use the previous season as a starting point, and as the Ivies didn't play in 2021 I expect the IL to be under-represented in pre-season rankings. Yale will be there, based on 2018, 2019 and the fact that key players from those title-game teams remain in New Haven. Maybe another Ivy or two will be ranked pre-season, but not Dartmouth; obviously. If 2020 had played out, or if the Ivies had played in 2021, Dartmouth might have.... but it didn't, and we didn't. A few posts back, MDlaxfan76 pointed out that it took Shay a long time to turn around Yale. There were some very lean years under Shay. He was in his 10th year at Yale when the Bulldogs won their first NCAA tourney game under him; his 15th year was the national championship. Nobody really knows how the extra year away will affect the Ivies in 2022, how much Harvard might improve under Byrne, etc. The IL looked so good as the 2020 season got going, but... It's been some years now since Dartmouth has won an Ivy game, but that will change. Unless Columbia unexpectedly makes it eight soon, it will be no mean feat for Dartmouth to get that IL win, those Ivy wins. Okay, enough (or too much?) from me. Good luck to the Green, and to the rest of the Ivy League.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32140
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

FannOLax wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:23 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm ...
I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.
...
Pre-season ranking generally use the previous season as a starting point, and as the Ivies didn't play in 2021 I expect the IL to be under-represented in pre-season rankings. Yale will be there, based on 2018, 2019 and the fact that key players from those title-game teams remain in New Haven. Maybe another Ivy or two will be ranked pre-season, but not Dartmouth; obviously. If 2020 had played out, or if the Ivies had played in 2021, Dartmouth might have.... but it didn't, and we didn't. A few posts back, MDlaxfan76 pointed out that it took Shay a long time to turn around Yale. There were some very lean years under Shay. He was in his 10th year at Yale when the Bulldogs won their first NCAA tourney game under him; his 15th year was the national championship. Nobody really knows how the extra year away will affect the Ivies in 2022, how much Harvard might improve under Byrne, etc. The IL looked so good as the 2020 season got going, but... It's been some years now since Dartmouth has won an Ivy game, but that will change. Unless Columbia unexpectedly makes it eight soon, it will be no mean feat for Dartmouth to get that IL win, those Ivy wins. Okay, enough (or too much?) from me. Good luck to the Green, and to the rest of the Ivy League.
You know, Dartmouth lost to Penn in OT in 2018. It was a heartbreaking loss.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25748
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:43 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:58 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:50 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:49 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:04 am Ok, good news, I guess, on the recruiting front.

Question is, where does Dartmouth rank among the seven Ivy teams in the 2022 preseason rankings?

DocBarrister
I'd put them last, until proven otherwise.

We're on a nice trajectory, have had some good recruiting classes, better and better by my eye, the quality of play has definitely improved greatly, the indoor facility is already a big help in multiple ways, and the Friends program has doubled funding over the past 4 years, now on par with the top fundraising Ivies.

But we have a long way to go before making any preseason ranking claims.

But query, why would you come on this thread and ask that question?
Come on, Doc, that should be beneath you, right?
Oh, come on, MD, you are being way too defensive. I have two Ivy League degrees. Actually spent more years studying at Ivy League schools than at Johns Hopkins. My first-year medical school roommate went to Dartmouth. I think I have a legitimate interest in Ivy League lacrosse. ;)

Anyway, I have long thought that the Ivy League was the best fit for all of Hopkins athletics, not just lacrosse.

I follow Ivy League lacrosse as both a fan and as an Ivy League alumnus.

Is that so wrong??? :cry:

DocBarrister :)
Yes, I know all that.

Which is why I'm puzzled as to why you'd ask a question to which you already know the answer.

I don't think I'm being defensive at all; no one sane is putting Dartmouth ahead of other Ivies until we actually beat them.

And we all know that to be the case.

So, why ask that question if not to 'troll' a bit?
Why ask the question? Because in recent years it seems that Dartmouth has been bringing in some good recruits and seems to have a good coaching staff. Why wouldn’t Dartmouth be more competitive than in recent years past?

Besides, I’m sick of the evil ACC dominating things. A stronger Ivy and B1G would be good for lacrosse.

DocBarrister 8-)
Sorry, I'm not letting you off the hook on this one, yet. You're too smart a guy. You asked "..where does Dartmouth rank among the seven Ivy teams in the 2022 preseason rankings"...not where we'll rank nationally, but rather "among" the 7 teams...you have to know we'll not be ranked by anyone above any of our fellow Ivies until we actually start beating them. That's obvious.

If you simply mis-asked the question, and were actually meaning where are Dartmouth (and the other Ivies) ranking this coming year nationally, to that more serious question, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dartmouth ranked preseason higher than they ended say in 2017...there's indeed been improvement....on the field.

I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.

Of course, if you were indeed just trolling a bit of bait, that's fine too. I simple 'sorry' would certainly suffice.
Not a big deal. We gotta win some games!
No, MD … I specifically asked where Dartmouth ranked in the Ivy League.

I’m being realistic and my question was genuine. I didn’t ask about a national ranking because I kinda assumed Dartmouth wasn’t quite there yet … gotta play the games and win, as you say.

My question was … has Dartmouth made any progress against its Ivy League peers. Maybe Dartmouth isn’t up to par with Yale, but how about Brown, Harvard, and Princeton?

And my question was for the pre-season ranking, which is inherently speculative.

Geesh … my treatment here makes me want to head back to the Cornell thread.

DocBarrister :P
Doc, as someone who is relatively informed, and as you say, a fan of the Ivies, I'd expect you to know that Dartmouth is ranked last in the League, and will be until we actually beat teams ahead of us, preferably on a regular and sustained basis.

If I'm a bit prickly on the topic, chalk it up to my competitive juices.

As a player, I knew the ignominy of two years of being blown out by various Ivy teams (I think the only Ivy we beat 4 years in a row was Yale), yet also experienced the joy of top 10 season including upsetting Cornell, ranked #2, which had not lost an Ivy game in many years prior. I'm hoping for the current players to experience that sort of joy in their tenure at Dartmouth.

If you're asking for my speculation as to which teams might get picked off, I'd say that all of them are fair game. While I think the current roster depth at some programs favors them significantly, I like our tender's ability to shape an outcome, keeping it close, and if we get some FO performances ala the one that defeated Harvard in 2015, any opponent can be beaten on a given day.

But I'm not predicting that to necessarily happen in 2022, nor am I predicting multiple Ivy wins just yet...I need to see it happen on the field; there's been a ton of discombobulation through Covid, we don't have many returning 5th years, and I don't think we've been looking for transfers...so, the team will be inexperienced relative to the other Ivies.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22321
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:33 am
FannOLax wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:23 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm ...
I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.
...
Pre-season ranking generally use the previous season as a starting point, and as the Ivies didn't play in 2021 I expect the IL to be under-represented in pre-season rankings. Yale will be there, based on 2018, 2019 and the fact that key players from those title-game teams remain in New Haven. Maybe another Ivy or two will be ranked pre-season, but not Dartmouth; obviously. If 2020 had played out, or if the Ivies had played in 2021, Dartmouth might have.... but it didn't, and we didn't. A few posts back, MDlaxfan76 pointed out that it took Shay a long time to turn around Yale. There were some very lean years under Shay. He was in his 10th year at Yale when the Bulldogs won their first NCAA tourney game under him; his 15th year was the national championship. Nobody really knows how the extra year away will affect the Ivies in 2022, how much Harvard might improve under Byrne, etc. The IL looked so good as the 2020 season got going, but... It's been some years now since Dartmouth has won an Ivy game, but that will change. Unless Columbia unexpectedly makes it eight soon, it will be no mean feat for Dartmouth to get that IL win, those Ivy wins. Okay, enough (or too much?) from me. Good luck to the Green, and to the rest of the Ivy League.
You know, Dartmouth lost to Penn in OT in 2018. It was a heartbreaking loss.
When you need to accumulate wins every OT one is heartbreaking. Look at Hobarts D1 record in OT games form BJ OHara through Kerwick when we were trying to build credibility at that level coming off unprecedented NCAA era domination in D3. Those 1 hola games make or break a season and can crush a program for extended periods if not converted to Ws which is about depth of talent usually.

(cue somebody bringing up Kenyons swim team or perhaps Trinity in Squash):

95 - W v PSU (9th in country) 13-12 (1 goal regulation L to Cuse as well)
96 - L v ND (12th) 5-6; L v GT 10-11 (17th)
97 - L v ND (12th) 9-10; L v PSU (20th) 11-12 (*2 OT), L v Syracuse (4th) 15-16
98 - None, at large NCAA bid
99 - None, whole lot of 1 goal games
2000 - None, 1 goal losses to GT and Harvard (we were up 9-3 in 3rd on GT), NCAA AQ for PL
2001 - None
2002 - L v PSU (18th) 10-11 (followed by 1 goal L in reg to #4 GT); NCAA AQ for PL
03 - None but lot of 1-2 goal losses to ranked teams
04 - W v PSU 8-7; L v OSU (13th) 12-13 (another huge Q3 lead blown), lot of 1 goal losses incl PL championship to Navy but got an AL for thrashing AL Army and beating Cornell down the stretch only to get sent back to Ithaca the following week for Rd 1)
05 (joined ECAC after getting booted from PL) - None (1-2 goal losses to 3-4 ranked teams)
06 - L v Rutgers (w Havilchuk) 7-8 - was at that game we got boned on a interference call on Veltman late and must’ve hit 10 pipes.
07 - L v Bucknell 10-11 (no Veltman bc of NCAA issue), L v Rutgers 11-12 (*2OT)
08 - L v GT (13th) 12-13 (*2OT), L v UMASS 7-8

2-10 in OT, probably my guess is like 8-25 in 2 goal or less games to ranked teams over that stretch.

BJ fired after 1999, Kerwick after 08 (being named EVAC coy and the same day he beat ranked Loyola at the Boz) all under AD Hanna.

Point being the difference between being a very competitive, sometimes ranked and occasionally getting into playoff level team is these close games. And I ignored a ton of 1-2 goal regulation losses to ranked teams in that stretch and we were ending up around .500 most years. But if you know BJ and Matt they were good coaches but weren’t Xs and Os guys. That and depth are critical to getting regularly into the 15-25 world of lacrosse I’ve lived with for two decades now.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25748
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

(cue somebody bringing up Kenyons swim team or perhaps Trinity in Squash):


:lol: :D

yes, the close ones and how they fall...
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22321
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by Farfromgeneva »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:05 am (cue somebody bringing up Kenyons swim team or perhaps Trinity in Squash):


:lol: :D

yes, the close ones and how they fall...
Lot there but a visual to see the difference between being 10-20 every year and just sort of competitive with the upper third. Dartmouth is close to moving into that latter territory but the OT heartbreakers of consistent can destroy momentum and send a program back to the dark ages (see Hobart after 5-0 start in 09 until 2016).
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32140
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:00 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:33 am
FannOLax wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:23 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm ...
I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.
...
Pre-season ranking generally use the previous season as a starting point, and as the Ivies didn't play in 2021 I expect the IL to be under-represented in pre-season rankings. Yale will be there, based on 2018, 2019 and the fact that key players from those title-game teams remain in New Haven. Maybe another Ivy or two will be ranked pre-season, but not Dartmouth; obviously. If 2020 had played out, or if the Ivies had played in 2021, Dartmouth might have.... but it didn't, and we didn't. A few posts back, MDlaxfan76 pointed out that it took Shay a long time to turn around Yale. There were some very lean years under Shay. He was in his 10th year at Yale when the Bulldogs won their first NCAA tourney game under him; his 15th year was the national championship. Nobody really knows how the extra year away will affect the Ivies in 2022, how much Harvard might improve under Byrne, etc. The IL looked so good as the 2020 season got going, but... It's been some years now since Dartmouth has won an Ivy game, but that will change. Unless Columbia unexpectedly makes it eight soon, it will be no mean feat for Dartmouth to get that IL win, those Ivy wins. Okay, enough (or too much?) from me. Good luck to the Green, and to the rest of the Ivy League.
You know, Dartmouth lost to Penn in OT in 2018. It was a heartbreaking loss.
When you need to accumulate wins every OT one is heartbreaking. Look at Hobarts D1 record in OT games form BJ OHara through Kerwick when we were trying to build credibility at that level coming off unprecedented NCAA era domination in D3. Those 1 hola games make or break a season and can crush a program for extended periods if not converted to Ws which is about depth of talent usually.

(cue somebody bringing up Kenyons swim team or perhaps Trinity in Squash):

95 - W v PSU (9th in country) 13-12 (1 goal regulation L to Cuse as well)
96 - L v ND (12th) 5-6; L v GT 10-11 (17th)
97 - L v ND (12th) 9-10; L v PSU (20th) 11-12 (*2 OT), L v Syracuse (4th) 15-16
98 - None, at large NCAA bid
99 - None, whole lot of 1 goal games
2000 - None, 1 goal losses to GT and Harvard (we were up 9-3 in 3rd on GT), NCAA AQ for PL
2001 - None
2002 - L v PSU (18th) 10-11 (followed by 1 goal L in reg to #4 GT); NCAA AQ for PL
03 - None but lot of 1-2 goal losses to ranked teams
04 - W v PSU 8-7; L v OSU (13th) 12-13 (another huge Q3 lead blown), lot of 1 goal losses incl PL championship to Navy but got an AL for thrashing AL Army and beating Cornell down the stretch only to get sent back to Ithaca the following week for Rd 1)
05 (joined ECAC after getting booted from PL) - None (1-2 goal losses to 3-4 ranked teams)
06 - L v Rutgers (w Havilchuk) 7-8 - was at that game we got boned on a interference call on Veltman late and must’ve hit 10 pipes.
07 - L v Bucknell 10-11 (no Veltman bc of NCAA issue), L v Rutgers 11-12 (*2OT)
08 - L v GT (13th) 12-13 (*2OT), L v UMASS 7-8

2-10 in OT, probably my guess is like 8-25 in 2 goal or less games to ranked teams over that stretch.

BJ fired after 1999, Kerwick after 08 (being named EVAC coy and the same day he beat ranked Loyola at the Boz) all under AD Hanna.

Point being the difference between being a very competitive, sometimes ranked and occasionally getting into playoff level team is these close games. And I ignored a ton of 1-2 goal regulation losses to ranked teams in that stretch and we were ending up around .500 most years. But if you know BJ and Matt they were good coaches but weren’t Xs and Os guys. That and depth are critical to getting regularly into the 15-25 world of lacrosse I’ve lived with for two decades now.
I wasn’t referring to it being heartbreaking for Dartmouth.. :(
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22321
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:20 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:00 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:33 am
FannOLax wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:23 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm ...
I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.
...
Pre-season ranking generally use the previous season as a starting point, and as the Ivies didn't play in 2021 I expect the IL to be under-represented in pre-season rankings. Yale will be there, based on 2018, 2019 and the fact that key players from those title-game teams remain in New Haven. Maybe another Ivy or two will be ranked pre-season, but not Dartmouth; obviously. If 2020 had played out, or if the Ivies had played in 2021, Dartmouth might have.... but it didn't, and we didn't. A few posts back, MDlaxfan76 pointed out that it took Shay a long time to turn around Yale. There were some very lean years under Shay. He was in his 10th year at Yale when the Bulldogs won their first NCAA tourney game under him; his 15th year was the national championship. Nobody really knows how the extra year away will affect the Ivies in 2022, how much Harvard might improve under Byrne, etc. The IL looked so good as the 2020 season got going, but... It's been some years now since Dartmouth has won an Ivy game, but that will change. Unless Columbia unexpectedly makes it eight soon, it will be no mean feat for Dartmouth to get that IL win, those Ivy wins. Okay, enough (or too much?) from me. Good luck to the Green, and to the rest of the Ivy League.
You know, Dartmouth lost to Penn in OT in 2018. It was a heartbreaking loss.
When you need to accumulate wins every OT one is heartbreaking. Look at Hobarts D1 record in OT games form BJ OHara through Kerwick when we were trying to build credibility at that level coming off unprecedented NCAA era domination in D3. Those 1 hola games make or break a season and can crush a program for extended periods if not converted to Ws which is about depth of talent usually.

(cue somebody bringing up Kenyons swim team or perhaps Trinity in Squash):

95 - W v PSU (9th in country) 13-12 (1 goal regulation L to Cuse as well)
96 - L v ND (12th) 5-6; L v GT 10-11 (17th)
97 - L v ND (12th) 9-10; L v PSU (20th) 11-12 (*2 OT), L v Syracuse (4th) 15-16
98 - None, at large NCAA bid
99 - None, whole lot of 1 goal games
2000 - None, 1 goal losses to GT and Harvard (we were up 9-3 in 3rd on GT), NCAA AQ for PL
2001 - None
2002 - L v PSU (18th) 10-11 (followed by 1 goal L in reg to #4 GT); NCAA AQ for PL
03 - None but lot of 1-2 goal losses to ranked teams
04 - W v PSU 8-7; L v OSU (13th) 12-13 (another huge Q3 lead blown), lot of 1 goal losses incl PL championship to Navy but got an AL for thrashing AL Army and beating Cornell down the stretch only to get sent back to Ithaca the following week for Rd 1)
05 (joined ECAC after getting booted from PL) - None (1-2 goal losses to 3-4 ranked teams)
06 - L v Rutgers (w Havilchuk) 7-8 - was at that game we got boned on a interference call on Veltman late and must’ve hit 10 pipes.
07 - L v Bucknell 10-11 (no Veltman bc of NCAA issue), L v Rutgers 11-12 (*2OT)
08 - L v GT (13th) 12-13 (*2OT), L v UMASS 7-8

2-10 in OT, probably my guess is like 8-25 in 2 goal or less games to ranked teams over that stretch.

BJ fired after 1999, Kerwick after 08 (being named EVAC coy and the same day he beat ranked Loyola at the Boz) all under AD Hanna.

Point being the difference between being a very competitive, sometimes ranked and occasionally getting into playoff level team is these close games. And I ignored a ton of 1-2 goal regulation losses to ranked teams in that stretch and we were ending up around .500 most years. But if you know BJ and Matt they were good coaches but weren’t Xs and Os guys. That and depth are critical to getting regularly into the 15-25 world of lacrosse I’ve lived with for two decades now.
I wasn’t referring to it being heartbreaking for Dartmouth.. :(
Talking OT brings up old ish for me. There was a point late 90s into the 2000s I felt like we could be 10-20, no different than Towson, UMBC, Army, PSU and others in D1 regularly but it seems like those losses just crushed all the momentum from winning 12 straight d3 titles, the epic 1986 game of 1 v 1 with a use etc. With the arms race and how the landscape has changed I don’t see that opportunity arising again for any small school especially with the fight we have just to exist in d1. But this holds true for most traditional non powers as cellar dwellers in the bette conferences as well.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32140
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:28 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:20 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:00 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:33 am
FannOLax wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:23 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm ...
I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.
...
Pre-season ranking generally use the previous season as a starting point, and as the Ivies didn't play in 2021 I expect the IL to be under-represented in pre-season rankings. Yale will be there, based on 2018, 2019 and the fact that key players from those title-game teams remain in New Haven. Maybe another Ivy or two will be ranked pre-season, but not Dartmouth; obviously. If 2020 had played out, or if the Ivies had played in 2021, Dartmouth might have.... but it didn't, and we didn't. A few posts back, MDlaxfan76 pointed out that it took Shay a long time to turn around Yale. There were some very lean years under Shay. He was in his 10th year at Yale when the Bulldogs won their first NCAA tourney game under him; his 15th year was the national championship. Nobody really knows how the extra year away will affect the Ivies in 2022, how much Harvard might improve under Byrne, etc. The IL looked so good as the 2020 season got going, but... It's been some years now since Dartmouth has won an Ivy game, but that will change. Unless Columbia unexpectedly makes it eight soon, it will be no mean feat for Dartmouth to get that IL win, those Ivy wins. Okay, enough (or too much?) from me. Good luck to the Green, and to the rest of the Ivy League.
You know, Dartmouth lost to Penn in OT in 2018. It was a heartbreaking loss.
When you need to accumulate wins every OT one is heartbreaking. Look at Hobarts D1 record in OT games form BJ OHara through Kerwick when we were trying to build credibility at that level coming off unprecedented NCAA era domination in D3. Those 1 hola games make or break a season and can crush a program for extended periods if not converted to Ws which is about depth of talent usually.

(cue somebody bringing up Kenyons swim team or perhaps Trinity in Squash):

95 - W v PSU (9th in country) 13-12 (1 goal regulation L to Cuse as well)
96 - L v ND (12th) 5-6; L v GT 10-11 (17th)
97 - L v ND (12th) 9-10; L v PSU (20th) 11-12 (*2 OT), L v Syracuse (4th) 15-16
98 - None, at large NCAA bid
99 - None, whole lot of 1 goal games
2000 - None, 1 goal losses to GT and Harvard (we were up 9-3 in 3rd on GT), NCAA AQ for PL
2001 - None
2002 - L v PSU (18th) 10-11 (followed by 1 goal L in reg to #4 GT); NCAA AQ for PL
03 - None but lot of 1-2 goal losses to ranked teams
04 - W v PSU 8-7; L v OSU (13th) 12-13 (another huge Q3 lead blown), lot of 1 goal losses incl PL championship to Navy but got an AL for thrashing AL Army and beating Cornell down the stretch only to get sent back to Ithaca the following week for Rd 1)
05 (joined ECAC after getting booted from PL) - None (1-2 goal losses to 3-4 ranked teams)
06 - L v Rutgers (w Havilchuk) 7-8 - was at that game we got boned on a interference call on Veltman late and must’ve hit 10 pipes.
07 - L v Bucknell 10-11 (no Veltman bc of NCAA issue), L v Rutgers 11-12 (*2OT)
08 - L v GT (13th) 12-13 (*2OT), L v UMASS 7-8

2-10 in OT, probably my guess is like 8-25 in 2 goal or less games to ranked teams over that stretch.

BJ fired after 1999, Kerwick after 08 (being named EVAC coy and the same day he beat ranked Loyola at the Boz) all under AD Hanna.

Point being the difference between being a very competitive, sometimes ranked and occasionally getting into playoff level team is these close games. And I ignored a ton of 1-2 goal regulation losses to ranked teams in that stretch and we were ending up around .500 most years. But if you know BJ and Matt they were good coaches but weren’t Xs and Os guys. That and depth are critical to getting regularly into the 15-25 world of lacrosse I’ve lived with for two decades now.
I wasn’t referring to it being heartbreaking for Dartmouth.. :(
Talking OT brings up old ish for me. There was a point late 90s into the 2000s I felt like we could be 10-20, no different than Towson, UMBC, Army, PSU and others in D1 regularly but it seems like those losses just crushed all the momentum from winning 12 straight d3 titles, the epic 1986 game of 1 v 1 with a use etc. With the arms race and how the landscape has changed I don’t see that opportunity arising again for any small school especially with the fight we have just to exist in d1. But this holds true for most traditional non powers as cellar dwellers in the bette conferences as well.
Yep.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22321
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:49 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:28 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:20 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:00 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:33 am
FannOLax wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:23 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm ...
I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.
...
Pre-season ranking generally use the previous season as a starting point, and as the Ivies didn't play in 2021 I expect the IL to be under-represented in pre-season rankings. Yale will be there, based on 2018, 2019 and the fact that key players from those title-game teams remain in New Haven. Maybe another Ivy or two will be ranked pre-season, but not Dartmouth; obviously. If 2020 had played out, or if the Ivies had played in 2021, Dartmouth might have.... but it didn't, and we didn't. A few posts back, MDlaxfan76 pointed out that it took Shay a long time to turn around Yale. There were some very lean years under Shay. He was in his 10th year at Yale when the Bulldogs won their first NCAA tourney game under him; his 15th year was the national championship. Nobody really knows how the extra year away will affect the Ivies in 2022, how much Harvard might improve under Byrne, etc. The IL looked so good as the 2020 season got going, but... It's been some years now since Dartmouth has won an Ivy game, but that will change. Unless Columbia unexpectedly makes it eight soon, it will be no mean feat for Dartmouth to get that IL win, those Ivy wins. Okay, enough (or too much?) from me. Good luck to the Green, and to the rest of the Ivy League.
You know, Dartmouth lost to Penn in OT in 2018. It was a heartbreaking loss.
When you need to accumulate wins every OT one is heartbreaking. Look at Hobarts D1 record in OT games form BJ OHara through Kerwick when we were trying to build credibility at that level coming off unprecedented NCAA era domination in D3. Those 1 hola games make or break a season and can crush a program for extended periods if not converted to Ws which is about depth of talent usually.

(cue somebody bringing up Kenyons swim team or perhaps Trinity in Squash):

95 - W v PSU (9th in country) 13-12 (1 goal regulation L to Cuse as well)
96 - L v ND (12th) 5-6; L v GT 10-11 (17th)
97 - L v ND (12th) 9-10; L v PSU (20th) 11-12 (*2 OT), L v Syracuse (4th) 15-16
98 - None, at large NCAA bid
99 - None, whole lot of 1 goal games
2000 - None, 1 goal losses to GT and Harvard (we were up 9-3 in 3rd on GT), NCAA AQ for PL
2001 - None
2002 - L v PSU (18th) 10-11 (followed by 1 goal L in reg to #4 GT); NCAA AQ for PL
03 - None but lot of 1-2 goal losses to ranked teams
04 - W v PSU 8-7; L v OSU (13th) 12-13 (another huge Q3 lead blown), lot of 1 goal losses incl PL championship to Navy but got an AL for thrashing AL Army and beating Cornell down the stretch only to get sent back to Ithaca the following week for Rd 1)
05 (joined ECAC after getting booted from PL) - None (1-2 goal losses to 3-4 ranked teams)
06 - L v Rutgers (w Havilchuk) 7-8 - was at that game we got boned on a interference call on Veltman late and must’ve hit 10 pipes.
07 - L v Bucknell 10-11 (no Veltman bc of NCAA issue), L v Rutgers 11-12 (*2OT)
08 - L v GT (13th) 12-13 (*2OT), L v UMASS 7-8

2-10 in OT, probably my guess is like 8-25 in 2 goal or less games to ranked teams over that stretch.

BJ fired after 1999, Kerwick after 08 (being named EVAC coy and the same day he beat ranked Loyola at the Boz) all under AD Hanna.

Point being the difference between being a very competitive, sometimes ranked and occasionally getting into playoff level team is these close games. And I ignored a ton of 1-2 goal regulation losses to ranked teams in that stretch and we were ending up around .500 most years. But if you know BJ and Matt they were good coaches but weren’t Xs and Os guys. That and depth are critical to getting regularly into the 15-25 world of lacrosse I’ve lived with for two decades now.
I wasn’t referring to it being heartbreaking for Dartmouth.. :(
Talking OT brings up old ish for me. There was a point late 90s into the 2000s I felt like we could be 10-20, no different than Towson, UMBC, Army, PSU and others in D1 regularly but it seems like those losses just crushed all the momentum from winning 12 straight d3 titles, the epic 1986 game of 1 v 1 with a use etc. With the arms race and how the landscape has changed I don’t see that opportunity arising again for any small school especially with the fight we have just to exist in d1. But this holds true for most traditional non powers as cellar dwellers in the bette conferences as well.
Yep.
You didn’t have to agree so easily and crap in my coffee! (Even if I’m correct)
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
wgdsr
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by wgdsr »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:00 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:33 am
FannOLax wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:23 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm ...
I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.
...
Pre-season ranking generally use the previous season as a starting point, and as the Ivies didn't play in 2021 I expect the IL to be under-represented in pre-season rankings. Yale will be there, based on 2018, 2019 and the fact that key players from those title-game teams remain in New Haven. Maybe another Ivy or two will be ranked pre-season, but not Dartmouth; obviously. If 2020 had played out, or if the Ivies had played in 2021, Dartmouth might have.... but it didn't, and we didn't. A few posts back, MDlaxfan76 pointed out that it took Shay a long time to turn around Yale. There were some very lean years under Shay. He was in his 10th year at Yale when the Bulldogs won their first NCAA tourney game under him; his 15th year was the national championship. Nobody really knows how the extra year away will affect the Ivies in 2022, how much Harvard might improve under Byrne, etc. The IL looked so good as the 2020 season got going, but... It's been some years now since Dartmouth has won an Ivy game, but that will change. Unless Columbia unexpectedly makes it eight soon, it will be no mean feat for Dartmouth to get that IL win, those Ivy wins. Okay, enough (or too much?) from me. Good luck to the Green, and to the rest of the Ivy League.
You know, Dartmouth lost to Penn in OT in 2018. It was a heartbreaking loss.
When you need to accumulate wins every OT one is heartbreaking. Look at Hobarts D1 record in OT games form BJ OHara through Kerwick when we were trying to build credibility at that level coming off unprecedented NCAA era domination in D3. Those 1 hola games make or break a season and can crush a program for extended periods if not converted to Ws which is about depth of talent usually.

(cue somebody bringing up Kenyons swim team or perhaps Trinity in Squash):

95 - W v PSU (9th in country) 13-12 (1 goal regulation L to Cuse as well)
96 - L v ND (12th) 5-6; L v GT 10-11 (17th)
97 - L v ND (12th) 9-10; L v PSU (20th) 11-12 (*2 OT), L v Syracuse (4th) 15-16
98 - None, at large NCAA bid
99 - None, whole lot of 1 goal games
2000 - None, 1 goal losses to GT and Harvard (we were up 9-3 in 3rd on GT), NCAA AQ for PL
2001 - None
2002 - L v PSU (18th) 10-11 (followed by 1 goal L in reg to #4 GT); NCAA AQ for PL
03 - None but lot of 1-2 goal losses to ranked teams
04 - W v PSU 8-7; L v OSU (13th) 12-13 (another huge Q3 lead blown), lot of 1 goal losses incl PL championship to Navy but got an AL for thrashing AL Army and beating Cornell down the stretch only to get sent back to Ithaca the following week for Rd 1)
05 (joined ECAC after getting booted from PL) - None (1-2 goal losses to 3-4 ranked teams)
06 - L v Rutgers (w Havilchuk) 7-8 - was at that game we got boned on a interference call on Veltman late and must’ve hit 10 pipes.
07 - L v Bucknell 10-11 (no Veltman bc of NCAA issue), L v Rutgers 11-12 (*2OT)
08 - L v GT (13th) 12-13 (*2OT), L v UMASS 7-8

2-10 in OT, probably my guess is like 8-25 in 2 goal or less games to ranked teams over that stretch.

BJ fired after 1999, Kerwick after 08 (being named EVAC coy and the same day he beat ranked Loyola at the Boz) all under AD Hanna.

Point being the difference between being a very competitive, sometimes ranked and occasionally getting into playoff level team is these close games. And I ignored a ton of 1-2 goal regulation losses to ranked teams in that stretch and we were ending up around .500 most years. But if you know BJ and Matt they were good coaches but weren’t Xs and Os guys. That and depth are critical to getting regularly into the 15-25 world of lacrosse I’ve lived with for two decades now.
being an x and o guy is not critical to being regularly in top 15-25. imo. it's lacrosse.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22321
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by Farfromgeneva »

What you say makes sense until you get out halftime adjusted and low leads with regularity for 15yrs..

Unless you mean it the way Warren buffet described becoming a millionaire: start as a billionaire (legacy paper with money and executing advantages) and invest in airlines (gtowns fabled #1 ranked recruiting class, back end of Petro and Desko regimes, UMIch since inception, etc)
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
DocBarrister
Posts: 6104
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by DocBarrister »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:49 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:43 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:24 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:58 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:50 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:49 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:04 am Ok, good news, I guess, on the recruiting front.

Question is, where does Dartmouth rank among the seven Ivy teams in the 2022 preseason rankings?

DocBarrister
I'd put them last, until proven otherwise.

We're on a nice trajectory, have had some good recruiting classes, better and better by my eye, the quality of play has definitely improved greatly, the indoor facility is already a big help in multiple ways, and the Friends program has doubled funding over the past 4 years, now on par with the top fundraising Ivies.

But we have a long way to go before making any preseason ranking claims.

But query, why would you come on this thread and ask that question?
Come on, Doc, that should be beneath you, right?
Oh, come on, MD, you are being way too defensive. I have two Ivy League degrees. Actually spent more years studying at Ivy League schools than at Johns Hopkins. My first-year medical school roommate went to Dartmouth. I think I have a legitimate interest in Ivy League lacrosse. ;)

Anyway, I have long thought that the Ivy League was the best fit for all of Hopkins athletics, not just lacrosse.

I follow Ivy League lacrosse as both a fan and as an Ivy League alumnus.

Is that so wrong??? :cry:

DocBarrister :)
Yes, I know all that.

Which is why I'm puzzled as to why you'd ask a question to which you already know the answer.

I don't think I'm being defensive at all; no one sane is putting Dartmouth ahead of other Ivies until we actually beat them.

And we all know that to be the case.

So, why ask that question if not to 'troll' a bit?
Why ask the question? Because in recent years it seems that Dartmouth has been bringing in some good recruits and seems to have a good coaching staff. Why wouldn’t Dartmouth be more competitive than in recent years past?

Besides, I’m sick of the evil ACC dominating things. A stronger Ivy and B1G would be good for lacrosse.

DocBarrister 8-)
Sorry, I'm not letting you off the hook on this one, yet. You're too smart a guy. You asked "..where does Dartmouth rank among the seven Ivy teams in the 2022 preseason rankings"...not where we'll rank nationally, but rather "among" the 7 teams...you have to know we'll not be ranked by anyone above any of our fellow Ivies until we actually start beating them. That's obvious.

If you simply mis-asked the question, and were actually meaning where are Dartmouth (and the other Ivies) ranking this coming year nationally, to that more serious question, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dartmouth ranked preseason higher than they ended say in 2017...there's indeed been improvement....on the field.

I don't think there's a lot of preseason rankings published yet, but none are likely to have Dartmouth in the Top 20. I wouldn't. I'd need to see it on the field first, not based on recruiting hopes. But if you asked me what I think will happen in the next few years, my money (and heart) is on us breaking in to the hunt in due course.

Of course, if you were indeed just trolling a bit of bait, that's fine too. I simple 'sorry' would certainly suffice.
Not a big deal. We gotta win some games!
No, MD … I specifically asked where Dartmouth ranked in the Ivy League.

I’m being realistic and my question was genuine. I didn’t ask about a national ranking because I kinda assumed Dartmouth wasn’t quite there yet … gotta play the games and win, as you say.

My question was … has Dartmouth made any progress against its Ivy League peers. Maybe Dartmouth isn’t up to par with Yale, but how about Brown, Harvard, and Princeton?

And my question was for the pre-season ranking, which is inherently speculative.

Geesh … my treatment here makes me want to head back to the Cornell thread.

DocBarrister :P
Doc, as someone who is relatively informed, and as you say, a fan of the Ivies, I'd expect you to know that Dartmouth is ranked last in the League, and will be until we actually beat teams ahead of us, preferably on a regular and sustained basis.

If I'm a bit prickly on the topic, chalk it up to my competitive juices.

As a player, I knew the ignominy of two years of being blown out by various Ivy teams (I think the only Ivy we beat 4 years in a row was Yale), yet also experienced the joy of top 10 season including upsetting Cornell, ranked #2, which had not lost an Ivy game in many years prior. I'm hoping for the current players to experience that sort of joy in their tenure at Dartmouth.

If you're asking for my speculation as to which teams might get picked off, I'd say that all of them are fair game. While I think the current roster depth at some programs favors them significantly, I like our tender's ability to shape an outcome, keeping it close, and if we get some FO performances ala the one that defeated Harvard in 2015, any opponent can be beaten on a given day.

But I'm not predicting that to necessarily happen in 2022, nor am I predicting multiple Ivy wins just yet...I need to see it happen on the field; there's been a ton of discombobulation through Covid, we don't have many returning 5th years, and I don't think we've been looking for transfers...so, the team will be inexperienced relative to the other Ivies.
Thanks, MD. That’s the kind of preseason evaluation for which I was looking.

DocBarrister :)
@DocBarrister
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22321
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by Farfromgeneva »

check sticks wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:10 pm What a pillow fight between 2 heavy weights in the Fanlax arena.

Can you believe 2,404 days have passed since the last time Dartmouth lax beat an Ivy League opponent ? I was there and can only HOPE that in 2022 Dartmouth lacrosse players will feel an enormous weight lifted from their shoulders by posting the next win...and the exhiliration that will come with that win.

Let's start with small goals. And build the resume from that point onward.
You’ve ruined my imaginary concept of pillow fight by replacing and old white dude and old Asian dude instead of hot young women fighting in pajamas (or less) and pillows.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25748
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Dartmouth 2022

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:00 pm
check sticks wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:10 pm What a pillow fight between 2 heavy weights in the Fanlax arena.

Can you believe 2,404 days have passed since the last time Dartmouth lax beat an Ivy League opponent ? I was there and can only HOPE that in 2022 Dartmouth lacrosse players will feel an enormous weight lifted from their shoulders by posting the next win...and the exhiliration that will come with that win.

Let's start with small goals. And build the resume from that point onward.
You’ve ruined my imaginary concept of pillow fight by replacing and old white dude and old Asian dude instead of hot young women fighting in pajamas (or less) and pillows.
Well, at least there's a Dartmouth connection on that one....Belushi on a ladder. ;)
Post Reply

Return to “D1 MENS LACROSSE”