Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

wgdsr wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:53 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:33 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:29 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:27 pm
DMac wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:52 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm
AreaLax wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.
Just more tinkering.
Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.
The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.
Great to finally ;) have something to disagree with you about, TLD!

I do get the sentiment though.
I don’t mind it. I just don’t understand why fundamental changes are made so frequently in the sport. Going back to 60 seconds is fine but I can’t remember watching a game over the past two years and thinking “I liked the game but I would have liked it even better if the clock reset to 60”.
quote]if you didn't notice or wish anything on a restart before, you won't notice anything here. you should be cheering if this is all they'll do.

baseball is already on a clock in nc$$. new for '20?
you should check out all that's coming to the pros and arrived with covid.
they change the balls it seems every year. outside of tom brady, probably no other athletes that's as important to?
did you know they're now putting a guy on second base if it goes to xtra innings? w.t.f. is that?
instant replay challenges.
possible computerized strike zone.
mlb probably going to a pitch clock next year or 2. and dictating how to play d (no shift)
and more:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/04/01/mlb-r ... ra-innings

i think we can all agree there's been too much tinkering. faceoffs. the dive recently. box size.
a lot of the changes (maybe too many times) though have been net positive. wider sticks. from horn subs and counts/no counts to the shot clock. slow whistle until d gets possession. this one's unobtrusive and positive.

soccer rules won't ever change bc it's perfect. if you understand soccer.
I haven’t seen one inning of baseball on TV in 10 years. Did see Kate Upton at a game. It’s all I remember about the game.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
wgdsr
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by wgdsr »

did she have that button down tigers jersey?
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

wgdsr wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:17 pm did she have that button down tigers jersey?
Tight white t-shirt with a plunging neckline! A steady parade of teenage boys walking by and waving at her. I believe she was sitting with Verlander’s agent about 3 rows in front of us. Pretty.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
palaxoff
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by palaxoff »

This rule change just like the recent faceoff rule have nothing to do with the game and everything to do with eyeballs watching the TV screen. Everyone is chasing the TV dollars especially are good friends at the NCAA.

If there was a sport that needed a clock is it baseball.
DMac
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by DMac »

I don't believe the face off rule changes had anything to do with getting eyes on the TV, how you figure that?
How you going to put a clock on baseball (other than a pitch clock)?
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44WeWantMore
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by 44WeWantMore »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:27 pm
DMac wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:52 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm
AreaLax wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.
Just more tinkering.
Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.
The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.
The problem was caused by equipment evolution. and the shot clock was a necessary reaction, given that nobody was ever going to fix the sticks.

Aside: for me, elite mens' tennis on hard courts has become unwatchable. I understand why the weekend player wants a modern racket, but who would have thought that the French Open would be better for spectators than Wimbledon?
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
laxpert
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by laxpert »

Curious how the mechanics of this will work. Rarely is there a game that doesn't have a shot clock reset mishap and now you're throwing in two variables. Modifying hardware and software to have two different times might be easier said then done. Possibly the shot clock is set to 60 seconds and on clears there's a reset after the first 20. Competent clock operators will be necessary.
SCLaxAttack
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by SCLaxAttack »

44WeWantMore wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:22 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:27 pm
DMac wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:52 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm
AreaLax wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.
Just more tinkering.
Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.
The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.
The problem was caused by equipment evolution. and the shot clock was a necessary reaction, given that nobody was ever going to fix the sticks.

Aside: for me, elite mens' tennis on hard courts has become unwatchable. I understand why the weekend player wants a modern racket, but who would have thought that the French Open would be better for spectators than Wimbledon?
One of the best events I’ve ever seen is the 1980 Borg/McEnroe Wimbledon five setter. Amazing tennis. Back when the men volleyed.
wgdsr
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by wgdsr »

laxpert wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:37 am Curious how the mechanics of this will work. Rarely is there a game that doesn't have a shot clock reset mishap and now you're throwing in two variables. Modifying hardware and software to have two different times might be easier said then done. Possibly the shot clock is set to 60 seconds and on clears there's a reset after the first 20. Competent clock operators will be necessary.
they may (should be) buying new clocks or new software/hardware.
basketball does this now and with many multiples of the possession changes and resets.

in its early stages, you're gonna get reset mishaps.

those will be some great debates, can't wait.
Gorilla Fan
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by Gorilla Fan »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:27 pm
DMac wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:52 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm
AreaLax wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.
Just more tinkering.
Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.
The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.
Hasn't it been rather recently that soccer now has video replays for offsides, fouls in the box, etc. Seems like there was so much controversy in such big games with high stakes that they had to make a "rule change"
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RedFromMI
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by RedFromMI »

wgdsr wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:55 am
laxpert wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:37 am Curious how the mechanics of this will work. Rarely is there a game that doesn't have a shot clock reset mishap and now you're throwing in two variables. Modifying hardware and software to have two different times might be easier said then done. Possibly the shot clock is set to 60 seconds and on clears there's a reset after the first 20. Competent clock operators will be necessary.
they may (should be) buying new clocks or new software/hardware.
basketball does this now and with many multiples of the possession changes and resets.

in its early stages, you're gonna get reset mishaps.

those will be some great debates, can't wait.

Daktronik controllers I have used (5000) have two reset buttons that can be programmed for two different numbers.

You already have a two value situation in men’s basketball, for example, where 30 and 20 seconds are used.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Gorilla Fan wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:03 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:27 pm
DMac wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:52 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm
AreaLax wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.
Just more tinkering.
Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.
The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.
Hasn't it been rather recently that soccer now has video replays for offsides, fouls in the box, etc. Seems like there was so much controversy in such big games with high stakes that they had to make a "rule change"
That is not a fundamental change to the way the game is played. It’s a change in how an aspect of the game is officiated. I don’t like the way the offsides is officiated with video. I believe it should be used to reverse an offsides call. Not to make a call that the refs didn’t make. Handballs and fouls in the box are a gray area for me. When was the last change to the 18 yard box, the 6 yard box, off sides, how long the game is played, subs ever been made on the fly in soccer? etc., etc. I remember when 6 poles were on the field in college lacrosse.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
kramerica.inc
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by kramerica.inc »

The goal of a shot clock is to limit long posessions and keep the ball moving up and down the field/court.

Is a "valid shot" anything deemed a shot by the refs (for endline psoessiones etc) or specifically a pipe/goalie deflection?

Game is gonna slow down again if it's for any shot. We're gonna see "possession shots" so teams can get a reset. Reminiscent of the ones in club ball when the stall warning was first implemented.
KingPrat
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by KingPrat »

wgdsr wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:55 am
laxpert wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:37 am Curious how the mechanics of this will work. Rarely is there a game that doesn't have a shot clock reset mishap and now you're throwing in two variables. Modifying hardware and software to have two different times might be easier said then done. Possibly the shot clock is set to 60 seconds and on clears there's a reset after the first 20. Competent clock operators will be necessary.
they may (should be) buying new clocks or new software/hardware.
basketball does this now and with many multiples of the possession changes and resets.

in its early stages, you're gonna get reset mishaps.

those will be some great debates, can't wait.
Part of the rule change and implementation plan for NCAA was installing shot clocks that can reset to two different times - I believe it was literally written in the rule. The delay in full implementation was for small D3 schools to have the time to budget for the cost to install/purchase. Even the roll away clocks have the ability to be reset to multiple times. There should be no need to modify hardware/software.

The hard part will be departments that hire work-study to work games. Getting a non-athlete working the shot clock is the biggest travesty in the game. The program I coached for benefitted from the fact that we hired "professionals" (aka adults) to work our games and even still, we had issues here and there.

We once played a team where the coach thought his offense had hit the cage and walked over to the table and reset the shot clock himself. That was entertaining.
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:33 pm I don’t mind it. I just don’t understand why fundamental changes are made so frequently in the sport. Going back to 60 seconds is fine but I can’t remember watching a game over the past two years and thinking “I liked the game but I would have liked it even better if the clock reset to 60”.
Go back and watch the 2010 D1 title game and tell me the game isn't better with a shot clock. That game was the most boring game I think I've ever watched. Good defense? Sure. But stall ball and slow down lacrosse is awful to watch, even live.

The shot clock has changed the game for the better, and this reset rule makes sense. 80 second clock includes 20 to clear. You still have the ball, so you don't get clearing time. It's one of the more sensical changes that have been made in the last 10 years or so. :lol:

All of these changes are being made for TV, and the top 25 D1 teams drive the bus when it comes to change. The frustrating part is that many times coaches at those programs are fighting for rule changes that directly affected them the season before. Desko was calling for the faceoff to be ELIMINATED from the game in the mid-2010s. Then Ben Williams transferred in and all of a sudden the faceoff rules were great and didn't need modifying.

And D3 schools are just along for the ride. We were putting turf in leading up to a rule change year and I begged my AD not to put the sub box lines down (When the sub box was 20 yards) They finally relented and took the lines off the plans. 2 months later the rule changed back to a 10 yard box.

I could go on for a long time about the ridiculous general session discussions at the IMLCA convention that revolved around rules......
Last edited by KingPrat on Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
KingPrat
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:25 am

Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by KingPrat »

kramerica.inc wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:30 am The goal of a shot clock is to limit long posessions and keep the ball moving up and down the field/court.

Is a "valid shot" anything deemed a shot by the refs (for endline psoessiones etc) or specifically a pipe/goalie deflection?

Game is gonna slow down again if it's for any shot. We're gonna see "possession shots" so teams can get a reset. Reminiscent of the ones in club ball when the stall warning was first implemented.
No. Shot on cage resets the clock (save or pipe). That part of the rule didn't change.
kramerica.inc
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by kramerica.inc »

Ok, good. That makes more sense, IMO. Glad to hear.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

KingPrat wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:33 am
wgdsr wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:55 am
laxpert wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:37 am Curious how the mechanics of this will work. Rarely is there a game that doesn't have a shot clock reset mishap and now you're throwing in two variables. Modifying hardware and software to have two different times might be easier said then done. Possibly the shot clock is set to 60 seconds and on clears there's a reset after the first 20. Competent clock operators will be necessary.
they may (should be) buying new clocks or new software/hardware.
basketball does this now and with many multiples of the possession changes and resets.

in its early stages, you're gonna get reset mishaps.

those will be some great debates, can't wait.
Part of the rule change and implementation plan for NCAA was installing shot clocks that can reset to two different times - I believe it was literally written in the rule. The delay in full implementation was for small D3 schools to have the time to budget for the cost to install/purchase. Even the roll away clocks have the ability to be reset to multiple times. There should be no need to modify hardware/software.

The hard part will be departments that hire work-study to work games. Getting a non-athlete working the shot clock is the biggest travesty in the game. The program I coached for benefitted from the fact that we hired "professionals" (aka adults) to work our games and even still, we had issues here and there.

We once played a team where the coach thought his offense had hit the cage and walked over to the table and reset the shot clock himself. That was entertaining.
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:33 pm I don’t mind it. I just don’t understand why fundamental changes are made so frequently in the sport. Going back to 60 seconds is fine but I can’t remember watching a game over the past two years and thinking “I liked the game but I would have liked it even better if the clock reset to 60”.
Go back and watch the 2010 D1 title game and tell me the game isn't better with a shot clock. That game was the most boring game I think I've ever watched. Good defense? Sure. But stall ball and slow down lacrosse is awful to watch, even live.

The shot clock has changed the game for the better, and this reset rule makes sense. 80 second clock includes 20 to clear. You still have the ball, so you don't get clearing time. It's one of the more sensical changes that have been made in the last 10 years or so. :lol:

All of these changes are being made for TV, and the top 25 D1 teams drive the bus when it comes to change. The frustrating part is that many times coaches at those programs are fighting for rule changes that directly affected them the season before. Desko was calling for the faceoff to be ELIMINATED from the game in the mid-2010s. Then Ben Williams transferred in and all of a sudden the faceoff rules were great and didn't need modifying.

And D3 schools are just along for the ride. We were putting turf in leading up to a rule change year and I begged my AD not to put the sub box lines down (When the sub box was 20 yards) They finally relented and took the lines off the plans. 2 months later the rule changed back to a 10 yard box.

I could go on for a long time about the ridiculous general session discussions at the IMLCA convention that revolved around rules......
Is 2010 two years ago?
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
NElaxtalent
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:23 am

Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by NElaxtalent »

DMac wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:52 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm
AreaLax wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.
Just more tinkering.
Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.
+1
Carroll81
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:36 am

Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by Carroll81 »

wgdsr wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:55 am
laxpert wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:37 am Curious how the mechanics of this will work. Rarely is there a game that doesn't have a shot clock reset mishap and now you're throwing in two variables. Modifying hardware and software to have two different times might be easier said then done. Possibly the shot clock is set to 60 seconds and on clears there's a reset after the first 20. Competent clock operators will be necessary.
they may (should be) buying new clocks or new software/hardware.
basketball does this now and with many multiples of the possession changes and resets.

in its early stages, you're gonna get reset mishaps.

those will be some great debates, can't wait.
Put the clear back on the timer that officials wear and set the shot clocks to 60.
KingPrat
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:25 am

Re: Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

Post by KingPrat »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:15 pm
Is 2010 two years ago?
No, but the shot clock didn't come up out of thin air two years ago.

My point was more that the shot clock is the evolution of about 8 years of "pace of play" rules that culminated in the logical adaptation of a physical shot clock. Goal was to take the call out of the official's discretion, as there were huge differences (even within a crew) as to what constituted stalling. Some rules we rattled through were getting rid of sideline horns, get it in/keep it in stall, 30 second stall, timeout rules, lengthening/shortening of sub box and I'm sure a few others that I'm not remembering. All within the time I was coaching at the college level.

This has been an ongoing conversation for a decade and 2010/2011 seasons were the peak slow-down/stall lacrosse.
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