Johns Hopkins 2022

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HopFan16
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by HopFan16 »

The 2020 team got sh*tcanned by every decent team they played—often completely out of every game by halftime—and should have lost to Mount St. Mary's. There was no magical end-of-the-year run coming.

The 2021 team, meanwhile, though the record obviously wasn't acceptable by anyone's standards, was vastly more competitive. Excusing the first game against Ohio State because it was coming off a two-week pause in all campus activities (not just practice, but also training, meetings, etc.) and they clearly weren't ready to play, virtually all other games were night and day in terms of belonging on the field with the other team compared to 2020. First game against Maryland: tied at halftime. First vs. Rutgers: winning at halftime, tied going into the 4th quarter. Second game vs. Rutgers: within 2-3 virtually the entire game before Rut pulled away at the end. All other losses: by 3 goals or fewer.

The eye test showed a team that could "hang" with good teams—and occasionally beat them—something the 2020 team had absolutely no ability to do. And this was happening long before the emergence of the freshmen midfield trio that a fan likes to attribute literally all of our success at the end of the year to. If you could somehow put the team of March 2020 up against the team of March 2021, no one—and I mean no one—is putting their money on the former.

There's no doubt the 2021 team lacked the ability to close out close games, with the exception of round 3 vs. Rutgers. But, the fact that they were even in a number of close games is a positive step. Next step is winning those games in 2022. Getting to actually practice as a team should help.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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51percentcorn wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:48 pm Ok - last time but surely (and I would never call you Shirley) there's a difference between a 19 season or so term coach having a normal season (as defined by all the available practices executed) stopped vs a coach - take Milliman out of it - any coach - never having seen a team before/denied the what 4/5 weeks of fall practice etc. etc. etc. Don't deny that Petro did not get a chance to right the listing ship - the eye test suggests that would have been a monumental task. I have no idea or knowledge about what went down and whether the Daniels cabal just had it in for him or whether the support of influential alumni was waning with the downward trends in performance. I do think the performance of the team in the Hopkins 2021 season was affected by COVID - team practices are better then not - I don't think the 2-4 performance in 2020 was COVID related - COVID prevented any chance to write a different chapter.
You got it. Petro didn't get a chance to right the ship.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by wgdsr »

when it's all said and done, hopkins fans want (and should be allowed) to be optimistic for 2022. you can call it grasping at straws or learned progression, but it's been some time coming for optimism vs. expectation.

the top 10 2021 nonsense can be forgiven in this light.

are they leaning too hard at outside excuses? sure. nobody had anywhere near a normal 20-21 season and the ball gets faced off with what ya got.

as always, it comes to wins and losses. and nowadays, how far you go in nc$$ (as long as that's around). ftr, i was and am a milliman backer when some were maybe not so much. win the group, have some successful schemes >> win games. it may not happen in a year, but 2-3 years in you have a barometer.
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HopFan16
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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wgdsr wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:44 pm when it's all said and done, hopkins fans want (and should be allowed) to be optimistic for 2022. you can call it grasping at straws or learned progression, but it's been some time coming for optimism vs. expectation.

the top 10 2021 nonsense can be forgiven in this light.
For the record, I would not rank us in the top 10 preseason at this point, but is it really nonsense? By the end of the year, were they that far away from being a top 10 team? It's not a stretch at all to say that in the four weeks prior to the NCAA tournament, they were playing as well as or better than many top teams. So if you're someone who heavily factors the prior season's trajectory into your preseason rankings, then it's defensible.

Again—won't be in my top 10. Too much to iron out still, and I put a lot of weight on consistency. They've earned their spot back in the top 20 for sure, probably top 15, but to be a preseason top 10 for me you've got to show you're good across a larger sample size. But it's no less valid a way to rank to heavily factor most recent play into your rankings for next year—provided you apply it to every team and not just a few.

And that's all before you consider anything like which players teams are losing/gaining. Williams is a real loss but I think relative to some of the teams that are ranked ahead of them, the Jays lose fewer impact players. They also had more freshmen contributors than most teams. So taking the final 1/3 of the season + bringing back core talent + promising young players, it's not some quantum leap to get in the range of top 10. Final media poll had them at 20, behind Delaware, Navy, High Point, Villanova, Vermont, Bryant, Army, Drexel, Cuse, and Lehigh. They are likely going to leapfrog 4-6 of those teams in the preseason poll, putting them somwhere in the vicinity of top 15, which is roughly where I'd have them as well.

Again, though, if you're someone who basically says "I'm going to rank 2022 based on how 2021 left off"—which is at least a few people that I know of—then you might have Hopkins leapfrog all 10 of those teams. Not necessarily correct, but not nonsense either. To be honest that's a lot less nonsensical than some of the other rationales people come up with. Transitive property isn't great science but it's all we have—Hopkins beat a Rutgers team that shellacked #10 Lehigh a week later. Would Hopkins have beat Lehigh? Maybe, maybe not. But that suggests they were already near top 10 material at that point. Wasn't enough to save their 2021 season, but looking ahead, why not? My two cents.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by wgdsr »

i was talking about end of season 2021. i could care less about preseason rankings.

hop in the fold is good for lacrosse. imo.

tbd.
51percentcorn
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by 51percentcorn »

While rankings are almost meaningless altogether - I guess rankings figure into the selection committee's thinking in some way - preseason rankings are completely meaningless so anybody can put Hopkins anywhere. I think there is some reason for guarded optimism going into 2022. You are returning 8 of your Top 10 scorers - Putting goalie aside for a second - you are replacing only two starters - Williams and Lyne. The following has to happen IMO for the optimism to be founded:
- Somebody/Anybody has to stand between the 6x6 and deliver at least 50% save percentage - 53/54% + on a consistent basis would be game changing
- The orthopedic wing at Union Memorial or Hopkins has to be fairly quiet with JHU lacrosse player visits and particularly with some areas of the team - face-off and attack come immediately to mind - there is not alot of experience in those areas - bodies yes - experience no (I understand that technically Prouty has experience but the fact that he only took 24 face-offs and won 7 of them whereas in 2019 he took over 200 and won 58% says he either was hurt or the new rules are to his detriment - if the former maybe he and Dunn can provide quality depth.)
- LSM is such an important position - with DeLaney unlikely to be able to return and Fernandez coming off a second serious knee injury - experience there is paper thin
- I was very happy for Lyne to get a season to start and play - he obviously has been through alot with injuries - if he had been healthy his entire time he might have proven himself to be quite a player. Hopkins should have talent behind him however. Replacing Williams and creating the continuity on attack is more critical IMO. As I have said before, the only potential downside to having DeSimone at X is its effect on Epstein - he didn't look entirely comfortable in his new position (another by product of no practices). Replacing Williams has its impacts as well, it would appear Grimes is the most logical candidate. Health and fall/spring should help tremendously, some forget I think that Grimes was hurt his junior year at BL and the '20 season was lost so the young man hadn't played in two years. He is a different player than Williams - the look on attack should be interesting.

So find some competency at goalie and LSM, get lucky with injuries and have the attack well coordinated and I think they will be a good, fun team with a winning record and a decent chance to make the NCAA tournament.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by steel_hop »

a fan wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:13 pm
51percentcorn wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:48 pm Ok - last time but surely (and I would never call you Shirley) there's a difference between a 19 season or so term coach having a normal season (as defined by all the available practices executed) stopped vs a coach - take Milliman out of it - any coach - never having seen a team before/denied the what 4/5 weeks of fall practice etc. etc. etc. Don't deny that Petro did not get a chance to right the listing ship - the eye test suggests that would have been a monumental task. I have no idea or knowledge about what went down and whether the Daniels cabal just had it in for him or whether the support of influential alumni was waning with the downward trends in performance. I do think the performance of the team in the Hopkins 2021 season was affected by COVID - team practices are better then not - I don't think the 2-4 performance in 2020 was COVID related - COVID prevented any chance to write a different chapter.
You got it. Petro didn't get a chance to right the ship.
He had about a decade to right the ship and over that time had one good year 2015. Otherwise, it was substandard. Look, I get you are hairpulling but it was time for Petro to go. Just like it was time for Dom to "retire" and Desko to go. Tierney saw the writing on the wall and made a move. He was probably 2-3 years of similar performance going to be let go. It was why Petro should have pursued the UM job.

Doesn't mean that they weren't or can still be good, or even potentially great coaches but they wore out their welcome. They weren't performing on the field to the necessary standards set. Unless you are truly one of the greats and can retire, coaches are generally hired to be fired.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by 44WeWantMore »

Agree that it was time for 2/3. But AIUI (I think O Canada was the one with inside knowledge) Tierney was not on thin ice at Princeton due to the team's worsening W-L Record (like Pete Carril, he probably had, and deserved, lifetime tenure), but instead he was internally competitive and disappointed that Princeton was giving him less support then they were previously and he saw that he would no longer be able to dominate the Ivy League and continue to be a routine FF participant..
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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steel_hop wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:10 pm He had about a decade to right the ship and over that time had one good year 2015. Otherwise, it was substandard. Look, I get you are hairpulling but it was time for Petro to go. Just like it was time for Dom to "retire" and Desko to go. Tierney saw the writing on the wall and made a move. He was probably 2-3 years of similar performance going to be let go. It was why Petro should have pursued the UM job.
I don't disagree with them putting Petro to pasture. They could have done it with far more class. Same for Desko, for that matter.
steel_hop wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:10 pm Doesn't mean that they weren't or can still be good, or even potentially great coaches but they wore out their welcome. They weren't performing on the field to the necessary standards set.
Neither did Milliman......and that seems to be the missed point here. Yep, promise and all that. And yep, they looked better when the freshman played. And yep, optimism. And yep, give the new guy a long leash. But: 4 wins is 4 wins. And we have no clue what 2022 will bring....covid has made evaluations impossible. Heck, the whole Ivy league shut down last year.

Peshko could light up the league in 2022, for all we know. For me? I hope that both Hopkins and Syracuse are playing each other in Final Fours, and soon.....
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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a fan wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:41 pm I don't disagree with them putting Petro to pasture. They could have done it with far more class.
This has been brought up a few times and never really fleshed out. What exactly were they supposed to do instead? His contract expired. Based on interviews he's done since, it sounds like Petro knew it was coming. They were correct to move quickly, so that the kids on the team wouldn't have to go through the Covid offseason without a staff. Covid made the optics look questionable but if it was going to happen, which it was, it had to happen when it did. We really have no idea what went on behind the scenes—perhaps Petro was offered a big press conference and jersey retirement and said no. Who knows. Unless a coach retires of his own volition, the "parting of ways" is rarely done in a way that satisfies all parties.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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HopFan16 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:52 pm This has been brought up a few times and never really fleshed out. What exactly were they supposed to do instead? His contract expired. Based on interviews he's done since, it sounds like Petro knew it was coming. They were correct to move quickly, so that the kids on the team wouldn't have to go through the Covid offseason without a staff. Covid made the optics look questionable but if it was going to happen, which it was, it had to happen when it did. We really have no idea what went on behind the scenes—perhaps Petro was offered a big press conference and jersey retirement and said no. Who knows.
Given how much Petro loves Hopkins, I find the odds of that are very, very low. But sure, we don't know.


How important is lacrosse to Hopkins? How much emphasis does Hopkins put on its lax history?

Well, the best defender you've ever had was just let go. And he brought you two more titles. No pomp. No circumstance. He was treated like he was no different than Haus or Seaman.

The message was: you failed. Go away.

Same message for Desko. And with Desko, it was far worse because of all that he accomplished in his long coaching tenure. Desko has more hardware than any other coach in our sport, and it's not even a close call.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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a fan wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:16 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:52 pm This has been brought up a few times and never really fleshed out. What exactly were they supposed to do instead? His contract expired. Based on interviews he's done since, it sounds like Petro knew it was coming. They were correct to move quickly, so that the kids on the team wouldn't have to go through the Covid offseason without a staff. Covid made the optics look questionable but if it was going to happen, which it was, it had to happen when it did. We really have no idea what went on behind the scenes—perhaps Petro was offered a big press conference and jersey retirement and said no. Who knows.
Given how much Petro loves Hopkins, I find the odds of that are very, very low. But sure, we don't know.


How important is lacrosse to Hopkins? How much emphasis does Hopkins put on its lax history?

Well, the best defender you've ever had was just let go. And he brought you two more titles. No pomp. No circumstance. He was treated like he was no different than Haus or Seaman.

The message was: you failed. Go away.

Same message for Desko. And with Desko, it was far worse because of all that he accomplished in his long coaching tenure. Desko has more hardware than any other coach in our sport, and it's not even a close call.
You didn't answer the question. What exactly should they have done differently?
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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HopFan16 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:22 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:16 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:52 pm This has been brought up a few times and never really fleshed out. What exactly were they supposed to do instead? His contract expired. Based on interviews he's done since, it sounds like Petro knew it was coming. They were correct to move quickly, so that the kids on the team wouldn't have to go through the Covid offseason without a staff. Covid made the optics look questionable but if it was going to happen, which it was, it had to happen when it did. We really have no idea what went on behind the scenes—perhaps Petro was offered a big press conference and jersey retirement and said no. Who knows.
Given how much Petro loves Hopkins, I find the odds of that are very, very low. But sure, we don't know.


How important is lacrosse to Hopkins? How much emphasis does Hopkins put on its lax history?

Well, the best defender you've ever had was just let go. And he brought you two more titles. No pomp. No circumstance. He was treated like he was no different than Haus or Seaman.

The message was: you failed. Go away.

Same message for Desko. And with Desko, it was far worse because of all that he accomplished in his long coaching tenure. Desko has more hardware than any other coach in our sport, and it's not even a close call.
You didn't answer the question. What exactly should they have done differently?
Same thing every other top notch team does when one of the most important people in team history retires or leaves.

Call up old players, and put together a thank you video. Scroll through old photos. Show big wins.

It costs next to nothing, and emphasizes the history of the program, and the contribution the player/coach made.

Or....do nothing.

Both videos for Desko and Petro would have been something to see.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by Powellfan22 »

a fan wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:46 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:22 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:16 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:52 pm This has been brought up a few times and never really fleshed out. What exactly were they supposed to do instead? His contract expired. Based on interviews he's done since, it sounds like Petro knew it was coming. They were correct to move quickly, so that the kids on the team wouldn't have to go through the Covid offseason without a staff. Covid made the optics look questionable but if it was going to happen, which it was, it had to happen when it did. We really have no idea what went on behind the scenes—perhaps Petro was offered a big press conference and jersey retirement and said no. Who knows.
Given how much Petro loves Hopkins, I find the odds of that are very, very low. But sure, we don't know.


How important is lacrosse to Hopkins? How much emphasis does Hopkins put on its lax history?

Well, the best defender you've ever had was just let go. And he brought you two more titles. No pomp. No circumstance. He was treated like he was no different than Haus or Seaman.

The message was: you failed. Go away.

Same message for Desko. And with Desko, it was far worse because of all that he accomplished in his long coaching tenure. Desko has more hardware than any other coach in our sport, and it's not even a close call.
You didn't answer the question. What exactly should they have done differently?
Same thing every other top notch team does when one of the most important people in team history retires or leaves.

Call up old players, and put together a thank you video. Scroll through old photos. Show big wins.

It costs next to nothing, and emphasizes the history of the program, and the contribution the player/coach made.

Or....do nothing.

Both videos for Desko and Petro would have been something to see.
Do you do any sort of research before you post? Syracuse gave Desko a very nice retirement press conference. Here is your precious video.

https://twitter.com/CuseMLAX/status/140 ... 76229?s=20
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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Powellfan22 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:06 pm Do you do any sort of research before you post? Syracuse gave Desko a very nice retirement press conference.
I saw it in full, my man. And yep, I missed that twitter video that came out a few days after the press conference. Mea culpa.
Powellfan22 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:06 pm Here is your precious video.https://twitter.com/CuseMLAX/status/140 ... 76229?s=20
So he asks me what I would do. I tell him what I would do. I'd put some effort into the video and have former players in it, making it far more meaningful for the coach.

You're welcome to disagree.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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Another transfer: https://twitter.com/College_Crosse/stat ... 8465954818
Former Providence defenseman Emmett Jennings will use his 5th year at @jhumenslacrosse, according to multiple sources. A three-year starter for the Friars, the NJ native piled up 86 GBs and 46 CTs in his career, earning 2nd Team Big East honors in 2021 as a top cover man.
51 won't like what this does to our numbers, but this kid can play. He has put up some big GB and CT totals in the past few years against Denver, Georgetown, and Villanova. Has averaged 1.4 CTs per game as a starter. Put up nearly identical numbers in the same conference as Nova's Prybylski (now off to Maryland) in fewer games. Probably the best pole left in the portal. Word is Dartmouth's Rizzotti may not be going anywhere this year.

This probably allows someone like Szuluk to bump up to LSM permanently? Presuming Jennings and Reinson start at close, you've then got McManus/Szuluk/Smith/Todaro/Deans as guys who can move around and fill whatever needs remain. And as a one-year guy, he won't necessarily block somebody like Todaro from seeing the field for very long. I still would have preferred a multi-year eligibility guy but if the kid is talented and fits the culture they're building then I trust it. Coach K will make it work.
Last edited by HopFan16 on Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by 51percentcorn »

The Huge news - 15 game schedule - 10 OOCs
Schedule loaded with good teams - UVA Loyola Georgetown UNC Syracuse are among the highlights
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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51percentcorn wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:41 pm The Huge news - 15 game schedule - 10 OOCs
Schedule loaded with good teams - UVA Loyola Georgetown UNC Syracuse are among the highlights
I thought Milliman wanted to go D3 and schedule all cupcakes?

UVA back on the sched would be great news
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by 51percentcorn »

Here's the announcement - it says Lyne is returning and does not mention Reinson
Also says Kirson is returning - I guess I understand why but....
So much for trimming roster size

https://hopkinssports.com/news/2021/7/2 ... ebook.aspx
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

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51percentcorn wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:45 pm Here's the announcement - it says Lyne is returning and does not mention Reinson
Also says Kirson is returning - I guess I understand why but....
So much for trimming roster size

https://hopkinssports.com/news/2021/7/2 ... ebook.aspx
Jennings now makes a lot more sense if Lyne is the one coming back and not Reinson. Need a lefty back there.
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