Syracuse 2021

[jrn19]

Not surprisingly article on syracuse.com stating SU lacrosse needs a reset... Fear of becoming just another lacrosse team. Yes, this years team didn't meet expectations but Desko has earned the right to coach through 2022.

I know Syracuse fans have been disappointed with first-round bounces in recent years, but Desko has led Syracuse to the NCAA tournament every year it’s been held since 2008. That’s a remarkable feat in this era. Not many teams can say the same.

DocBarrister

Duke can. Notre Dame can. Maryland can.

And those teams have a combined 17 Final Fours and 4 national titles and 10 title game appearances compared to 1, 0, and 1 for Cuse in that timeframe.

Is the standard at Syracuse making NCAA Tournaments or is it competing for championships? Not a whole lot of that going on

[Farfromgeneva]

Didn’t syracuse win in 2009?

[wgdsr]

Didn’t syracuse win in 2009?

they actually won it in 08 and 09.
lot of weird going around.

[Catbird]

It is a weird cutoff because those seem about as relevent to the current situation as Hopkins playing in 4 of 6 championships between 03-08 was to Petro getting relieved last year. Either way the decade before last is old news.

Maybe Desko can right the ship again, he did it once before but I think the situation is a bit different this year than is was in 2007.

[ohmilax34]

Not surprisingly article on syracuse.com stating SU lacrosse needs a reset... Fear of becoming just another lacrosse team. Yes, this years team didn't meet expectations but Desko has earned the right to coach through 2022.

I know Syracuse fans have been disappointed with first-round bounces in recent years, but Desko has led Syracuse to the NCAA tournament every year it’s been held since 2008. That’s a remarkable feat in this era. Not many teams can say the same.

DocBarrister

Duke can. Notre Dame can. Maryland can.

And those teams have a combined 17 Final Fours and 4 national titles and 10 title game appearances compared to 1, 0, and 1 for Cuse in that timeframe.

Is the standard at Syracuse making NCAA Tournaments or is it competing for championships? Not a whole lot of that going on

I think maybe you're not counting certain years. Since 2008 (and including 2008, because that was DocB's timeframe), Syracuse has 3 final fours, 2 national championships (2008 and 2009) and 3 title game appearances. 2013 was the other year.

This is not to say that the program wouldn't benefit from a change. The game changes. Kids change. Their coaching competitors change. It is possible that there are coaches out there that would have more success coaching at Syracuse right now than the current staff.

Syracuse made a couple big changes since I became a fan in 2000. The first was hiring Lelan Rogers to coach the defense before the 2008 season. He took that over from Roy Simmons III. Then, they hired Pat March to coach offense before the 2020 season. He took that over from Kevin Donahue. Simmons III is still on the staff as Director of Ops. Donahue left. I don't know the specifics of it, but it seemed like it wasn't mutual. I haven't looked at the offensive efficiency stats from before and after Pat March. It seems like Syracuse is scoring at about the same pace they were when Donahue was coaching offense. But, there's more to the change than that.

The Rogers hire was immediately successful, and Syracuse had good defenses for awhile. I remember their 2010 defense being really stingy. They've had some solid defenses in more recent memory, but not up to the standard they set when Rogers first arrived. I haven't looked at defensive efficiency data to back this up. I also like the type of defender Rogers recruits. They're usually multi sport athletes that are very skilled, which helps them in the clearing game and knocking down or picking off passes and picking up GBs. Rogers' defense is usually most successful when he has a lockdown #1 defender, which he's had in John Lade, Brandon Mullins, Scott Firman and Nick Mellen. Firman struggled with Ben Reeves. Mellen struggled with Pat Spencer and he struggled in 2020 when he may have been injured. Nothing to be ashamed of. I think Mullins was sometimes targeted by opponents when he was off-ball. Rogers' defense also needs good communication (all defenses do obviously). I'm not sure if they've been able to consistently recruit and/or develop this player. This year, the SU defense probably was below their normal standard for their #1 lockdown defender and their communication. I wonder if Dipietro being out made the communication significantly worse. Obviously, I don't know if or how they're addressing their deficiencies in these areas. Billy Dwan, the junior D commit from Loyola Blakefield is considered a good off-ball defender, so that seems like an area they're addressing.

I wonder about the culture of the team. The possible COVID suspensions were concerning, because I questioned how much the team was willing to give up to be successful this season. I'm pretty sure these players know how to party. I wonder if that's part of the team culture right now. However, the response by the players to the Scanlan situation was good.

I don't know if the team needs new new leadership or just a just a coordinator change, or if things will change when they recruit their own Michael Sowers, Chris Gray or Jared Bernhardt.

[Farfromgeneva]

I don’t understand what’s going on within this D1 thread alone, setting aside the internecine warfare on the politics boards. Nobody believes in logic or consistency anymore.

[Pensky Material]

Not surprisingly article on syracuse.com stating SU lacrosse needs a reset... Fear of becoming just another lacrosse team. Yes, this years team didn't meet expectations but Desko has earned the right to coach through 2022.

I know Syracuse fans have been disappointed with first-round bounces in recent years, but Desko has led Syracuse to the NCAA tournament every year it’s been held since 2008. That’s a remarkable feat in this era. Not many teams can say the same.

DocBarrister

Duke can. Notre Dame can. Maryland can.

And those teams have a combined 17 Final Fours and 4 national titles and 10 title game appearances compared to 1, 0, and 1 for Cuse in that timeframe.

Is the standard at Syracuse making NCAA Tournaments or is it competing for championships? Not a whole lot of that going on

I think maybe you're not counting certain years. Since 2008 (and including 2008, because that was DocB's timeframe), Syracuse has 3 final fours, 2 national championships (2008 and 2009) and 3 title game appearances. 2013 was the other year.

This is not to say that the program wouldn't benefit from a change. The game changes. Kids change. Their coaching competitors change. It is possible that there are coaches out there that would have more success coaching at Syracuse right now than the current staff.

Syracuse made a couple big changes since I became a fan in 2000. The first was hiring Lelan Rogers to coach the defense before the 2008 season. He took that over from Roy Simmons III. Then, they hired Pat March to coach offense before the 2020 season. He took that over from Kevin Donahue. Simmons III is still on the staff as Director of Ops. Donahue left. I don't know the specifics of it, but it seemed like it wasn't mutual. I haven't looked at the offensive efficiency stats from before and after Pat March. It seems like Syracuse is scoring at about the same pace they were when Donahue was coaching offense. But, there's more to the change than that.

The Rogers hire was immediately successful, and Syracuse had good defenses for awhile. I remember their 2010 defense being really stingy. They've had some solid defenses in more recent memory, but not up to the standard they set when Rogers first arrived. I haven't looked at defensive efficiency data to back this up. I also like the type of defender Rogers recruits. They're usually multi sport athletes that are very skilled, which helps them in the clearing game and knocking down or picking off passes and picking up GBs. Rogers' defense is usually most successful when he has a lockdown #1 defender, which he's had in John Lade, Brandon Mullins, Scott Firman and Nick Mellen. Firman struggled with Ben Reeves. Mellen struggled with Pat Spencer and he struggled in 2020 when he may have been injured. Nothing to be ashamed of. I think Mullins was sometimes targeted by opponents when he was off-ball. Rogers' defense also needs good communication (all defenses do obviously). I'm not sure if they've been able to consistently recruit and/or develop this player. This year, the SU defense probably was below their normal standard for their #1 lockdown defender and their communication. I wonder if Dipietro being out made the communication significantly worse. Obviously, I don't know if or how they're addressing their deficiencies in these areas. Billy Dwan, the junior D commit from Loyola Blakefield is considered a good off-ball defender, so that seems like an area they're addressing.

I wonder about the culture of the team. The possible COVID suspensions were concerning, because I questioned how much the team was willing to give up to be successful this season. I'm pretty sure these players know how to party. I wonder if that's part of the team culture right now. However, the response by the players to the Scanlan situation was good.

I don't know if the team needs new new leadership or just a just a coordinator change, or if things will change when they recruit their own Michael Sowers, Chris Gray or Jared Bernhardt.

Good post. The defenses from 2009 to 2011 were very good and I think I took them for granted after watching the mess that was out there this season. If Dekso stays it feels like something needs to be shaken up and logically it seems like letting Rogers go. Not sure if that's the right move but this easily had to be their worst defense since 2007. Anyway you look at it, it's going to be a challenging offseason.

[jrn19]

Not surprisingly article on syracuse.com stating SU lacrosse needs a reset... Fear of becoming just another lacrosse team. Yes, this years team didn't meet expectations but Desko has earned the right to coach through 2022.

I know Syracuse fans have been disappointed with first-round bounces in recent years, but Desko has led Syracuse to the NCAA tournament every year it’s been held since 2008. That’s a remarkable feat in this era. Not many teams can say the same.

DocBarrister

Duke can. Notre Dame can. Maryland can.

And those teams have a combined 17 Final Fours and 4 national titles and 10 title game appearances compared to 1, 0, and 1 for Cuse in that timeframe.

Is the standard at Syracuse making NCAA Tournaments or is it competing for championships? Not a whole lot of that going on

I think maybe you're not counting certain years. Since 2008 (and including 2008, because that was DocB's timeframe), Syracuse has 3 final fours, 2 national championships (2008 and 2009) and 3 title game appearances. 2013 was the other year.

This is not to say that the program wouldn't benefit from a change. The game changes. Kids change. Their coaching competitors change. It is possible that there are coaches out there that would have more success coaching at Syracuse right now than the current staff.

Syracuse made a couple big changes since I became a fan in 2000. The first was hiring Lelan Rogers to coach the defense before the 2008 season. He took that over from Roy Simmons III. Then, they hired Pat March to coach offense before the 2020 season. He took that over from Kevin Donahue. Simmons III is still on the staff as Director of Ops. Donahue left. I don't know the specifics of it, but it seemed like it wasn't mutual. I haven't looked at the offensive efficiency stats from before and after Pat March. It seems like Syracuse is scoring at about the same pace they were when Donahue was coaching offense. But, there's more to the change than that.

The Rogers hire was immediately successful, and Syracuse had good defenses for awhile. I remember their 2010 defense being really stingy. They've had some solid defenses in more recent memory, but not up to the standard they set when Rogers first arrived. I haven't looked at defensive efficiency data to back this up. I also like the type of defender Rogers recruits. They're usually multi sport athletes that are very skilled, which helps them in the clearing game and knocking down or picking off passes and picking up GBs. Rogers' defense is usually most successful when he has a lockdown #1 defender, which he's had in John Lade, Brandon Mullins, Scott Firman and Nick Mellen. Firman struggled with Ben Reeves. Mellen struggled with Pat Spencer and he struggled in 2020 when he may have been injured. Nothing to be ashamed of. I think Mullins was sometimes targeted by opponents when he was off-ball. Rogers' defense also needs good communication (all defenses do obviously). I'm not sure if they've been able to consistently recruit and/or develop this player. This year, the SU defense probably was below their normal standard for their #1 lockdown defender and their communication. I wonder if Dipietro being out made the communication significantly worse. Obviously, I don't know if or how they're addressing their deficiencies in these areas. Billy Dwan, the junior D commit from Loyola Blakefield is considered a good off-ball defender, so that seems like an area they're addressing.

I wonder about the culture of the team. The possible COVID suspensions were concerning, because I questioned how much the team was willing to give up to be successful this season. I'm pretty sure these players know how to party. I wonder if that's part of the team culture right now. However, the response by the players to the Scanlan situation was good.

I don't know if the team needs new new leadership or just a just a coordinator change, or if things will change when they recruit their own Michael Sowers, Chris Gray or Jared Bernhardt.

Sorry yeah I was counting since 2009, Cuse’s last title

[ohmilax34]

Not surprisingly article on syracuse.com stating SU lacrosse needs a reset... Fear of becoming just another lacrosse team. Yes, this years team didn't meet expectations but Desko has earned the right to coach through 2022.

I know Syracuse fans have been disappointed with first-round bounces in recent years, but Desko has led Syracuse to the NCAA tournament every year it’s been held since 2008. That’s a remarkable feat in this era. Not many teams can say the same.

DocBarrister

Duke can. Notre Dame can. Maryland can.

And those teams have a combined 17 Final Fours and 4 national titles and 10 title game appearances compared to 1, 0, and 1 for Cuse in that timeframe.

Is the standard at Syracuse making NCAA Tournaments or is it competing for championships? Not a whole lot of that going on

I think maybe you're not counting certain years. Since 2008 (and including 2008, because that was DocB's timeframe), Syracuse has 3 final fours, 2 national championships (2008 and 2009) and 3 title game appearances. 2013 was the other year.

This is not to say that the program wouldn't benefit from a change. The game changes. Kids change. Their coaching competitors change. It is possible that there are coaches out there that would have more success coaching at Syracuse right now than the current staff.

Syracuse made a couple big changes since I became a fan in 2000. The first was hiring Lelan Rogers to coach the defense before the 2008 season. He took that over from Roy Simmons III. Then, they hired Pat March to coach offense before the 2020 season. He took that over from Kevin Donahue. Simmons III is still on the staff as Director of Ops. Donahue left. I don't know the specifics of it, but it seemed like it wasn't mutual. I haven't looked at the offensive efficiency stats from before and after Pat March. It seems like Syracuse is scoring at about the same pace they were when Donahue was coaching offense. But, there's more to the change than that.

The Rogers hire was immediately successful, and Syracuse had good defenses for awhile. I remember their 2010 defense being really stingy. They've had some solid defenses in more recent memory, but not up to the standard they set when Rogers first arrived. I haven't looked at defensive efficiency data to back this up. I also like the type of defender Rogers recruits. They're usually multi sport athletes that are very skilled, which helps them in the clearing game and knocking down or picking off passes and picking up GBs. Rogers' defense is usually most successful when he has a lockdown #1 defender, which he's had in John Lade, Brandon Mullins, Scott Firman and Nick Mellen. Firman struggled with Ben Reeves. Mellen struggled with Pat Spencer and he struggled in 2020 when he may have been injured. Nothing to be ashamed of. I think Mullins was sometimes targeted by opponents when he was off-ball. Rogers' defense also needs good communication (all defenses do obviously). I'm not sure if they've been able to consistently recruit and/or develop this player. This year, the SU defense probably was below their normal standard for their #1 lockdown defender and their communication. I wonder if Dipietro being out made the communication significantly worse. Obviously, I don't know if or how they're addressing their deficiencies in these areas. Billy Dwan, the junior D commit from Loyola Blakefield is considered a good off-ball defender, so that seems like an area they're addressing.

I wonder about the culture of the team. The possible COVID suspensions were concerning, because I questioned how much the team was willing to give up to be successful this season. I'm pretty sure these players know how to party. I wonder if that's part of the team culture right now. However, the response by the players to the Scanlan situation was good.

I don't know if the team needs new new leadership or just a just a coordinator change, or if things will change when they recruit their own Michael Sowers, Chris Gray or Jared Bernhardt.

Sorry yeah I was counting since 2009, Cuse’s last title

No worries. I typed it quickly, then kept typing, so others chimed in before me.

[jrn19]

I thought your post was good. Based on the numbers the offense hasn’t fallen off one bit with March; they were great this year albeit not on Saturday. But it did seem like an odd move to have Donahue be the one to move on from the staff and it did seem to signal that it wasn’t paradise behind the scenes. And it wasn’t as if Donahue’s offenses had really fallen off; they’d been consistently strong.

This was a low point for Rogers from the defense perspective; they were bad. But since the elite defenses that you pointed out when they won the titles and then that 2011 group especially, it’s been a decline. Even in the last 5-6 years; their best defensive efficiency was 27.9% in 2018. That’s not bad; but it’s also not where Georgetown, ND, Maryland have been this year either. They fell off a bit after the Lade and White group graduated and while it was fine for awhile, this felt like a nadir

[ohmilax34]

I thought your post was good. Based on the numbers the offense hasn’t fallen off one bit with March; they were great this year albeit not on Saturday. But it did seem like an odd move to have Donahue be the one to move on from the staff and it did seem to signal that it wasn’t paradise behind the scenes. And it wasn’t as if Donahue’s offenses had really fallen off; they’d been consistently strong.

This was a low point for Rogers from the defense perspective; they were bad. But since the elite defenses that you pointed out when they won the titles and then that 2011 group especially, it’s been a decline. Even in the last 5-6 years; their best defensive efficiency was 27.9% in 2018. That’s not bad; but it’s also not where Georgetown, ND, Maryland have been this year either. They fell off a bit after the Lade and White group graduated and while it was fine for awhile, this felt like a nadir

I think part of the Donahue --> March move was also for recruiting. And I think it has helped in that area.

[jrn19]

I thought your post was good. Based on the numbers the offense hasn’t fallen off one bit with March; they were great this year albeit not on Saturday. But it did seem like an odd move to have Donahue be the one to move on from the staff and it did seem to signal that it wasn’t paradise behind the scenes. And it wasn’t as if Donahue’s offenses had really fallen off; they’d been consistently strong.

This was a low point for Rogers from the defense perspective; they were bad. But since the elite defenses that you pointed out when they won the titles and then that 2011 group especially, it’s been a decline. Even in the last 5-6 years; their best defensive efficiency was 27.9% in 2018. That’s not bad; but it’s also not where Georgetown, ND, Maryland have been this year either. They fell off a bit after the Lade and White group graduated and while it was fine for awhile, this felt like a nadir

I think part of the Donahue --> March move was also for recruiting. And I think it has helped in that area.

Yeah, if March was the point man on Spallina The Younger; hard to argue with that

[Catbird]

Syracuse life after Desko (whether it is next year or 10 years from now) will be interesting because the program more than others has been essentially a family business (coaching-wise) for so long, hard to know exactly how they will approach it. I know Desko isn't a Simmons, but he was there from essentially the birth of the dynasty and was so joined at the hip he might as well be an honorary member of that family. SU fans seem not to have alot of nice things to say about the athletic department in general, so I don't know if that means anything or not.

[HopFan16]

If March is such an all-star recruiter, they should probably make him the head coach before someone else does.

Based on interviews he's given it sounds like Spallina has been a lifelong Cuse fan who's dreamt of playing for the Orange...if that's the case the staff would have had to work hard to mess that one up. And with Spallina came a bunch of other highly regarded kids. Assuming the current staff stays in place I think the '23 class that commits this fall will be very telling about the future of the program. Coming off a very underwhelming season, that also had its share of controversy, can Desko and crew still land top names?

[DocBarrister]

Defer to the Syracuse fans on whether the great Coach Desko should stay or go (I would give him another year, but that’s just me).

Anyway, that returns us to the perennial question ... what about Gary Gait? He has risen to prominence in women’s lacrosse, but would he consider a switch to the men’s team? Would there be any choice that jolts the lacrosse world more than Gait?

Doubt he would even consider it, but ya never know. Even Gait must have wondered how he would do as a Division I men’s lacrosse coach.

DocBarrister

[laxrat78]

If March is such an all-star recruiter, they should probably make him the head coach before someone else does.

Based on interviews he's given it sounds like Spallina has been a lifelong Cuse fan who's dreamt of playing for the Orange...if that's the case the staff would have had to work hard to mess that one up. And with Spallina came a bunch of other highly regarded kids. Assuming the current staff stays in place I think the '23 class that commits this fall will be very telling about the future of the program. Coming off a very underwhelming season, that also had its share of controversy, can Desko and crew still land top names?

"cAn DeSkO aNd cRew StiLl lAnD ToP NaMes" lol its Syracuse

[jrn19]

Defer to the Syracuse fans on whether the great Coach Desko should stay or go (I would give him another year, but that’s just me).

Anyway, that returns us to the perennial question ... what about Gary Gait? He has risen to prominence in women’s lacrosse, but would he consider a switch to the men’s team? Would there be any choice that jolts the lacrosse world more than Gait?

Doubt he would even consider it, but ya never know. Even Gait must have wondered how he would do as a Division I men’s lacrosse coach.

DocBarrister

Gait turned down the opportunity to interview for the Maryland job when it came open when Tillman got it. He's wondered about it and not been interested.

[DocBarrister]

Defer to the Syracuse fans on whether the great Coach Desko should stay or go (I would give him another year, but that’s just me).

Anyway, that returns us to the perennial question ... what about Gary Gait? He has risen to prominence in women’s lacrosse, but would he consider a switch to the men’s team? Would there be any choice that jolts the lacrosse world more than Gait?

Doubt he would even consider it, but ya never know. Even Gait must have wondered how he would do as a Division I men’s lacrosse coach.

DocBarrister

Gait turned down the opportunity to interview for the Maryland job when it came open when Tillman got it. He's wondered about it and not been interested.

I hear ya ... but that was Maryland.

DocBarrister

[jrn19]

If March is such an all-star recruiter, they should probably make him the head coach before someone else does.

Based on interviews he's given it sounds like Spallina has been a lifelong Cuse fan who's dreamt of playing for the Orange...if that's the case the staff would have had to work hard to mess that one up. And with Spallina came a bunch of other highly regarded kids. Assuming the current staff stays in place I think the '23 class that commits this fall will be very telling about the future of the program. Coming off a very underwhelming season, that also had its share of controversy, can Desko and crew still land top names?

"cAn DeSkO aNd cRew StiLl lAnD ToP NaMes" lol its Syracuse

I mean, they have 1 Top 100 recruit committed in this year's class. One. Obviously in this year's class they had Hiltz; but other than that....2 other Top 100 guys. 2019? 3. 2018? 3. So in the last 3 classes, they have a combined 9 Top 100 recruits. Which is what Duke and UNC are bringing in like....a year at this point.

Perhaps not coincidentally, Syracuse hasn't won a first round game since 2017

[jrn19]

Defer to the Syracuse fans on whether the great Coach Desko should stay or go (I would give him another year, but that’s just me).

Anyway, that returns us to the perennial question ... what about Gary Gait? He has risen to prominence in women’s lacrosse, but would he consider a switch to the men’s team? Would there be any choice that jolts the lacrosse world more than Gait?

Doubt he would even consider it, but ya never know. Even Gait must have wondered how he would do as a Division I men’s lacrosse coach.

DocBarrister

Gait turned down the opportunity to interview for the Maryland job when it came open when Tillman got it. He's wondered about it and not been interested.

I hear ya ... but that was Maryland.

DocBarrister

Yeah, a Top 5 job in the country that was in a better place in 2010 than Cuse is right now.

Also, Gait at that point didn't have significantly the more successful lacrosse program on campus