Derogatory Posts

[Matnum PI]

I'm calling them derogatory posts. Others could use a different adjective. Either way, there are umpteen posts within our forum that do not speak kindly of a specific AD, coach, player, or otherwise. Over the years, we've received several e-mails from coaches and otherwise claiming the posts are lies, defaming an individual and/or program, and need to be deleted immediately. And, in every case, we've replied by saying that we do not delete posts and that we suggest that they reply to the post with the truth. Though this has happened several times over the course of many years, for whatever reason, we've never spoken to this. Now we are. If, for no other reason, so forum post-ers can chime in with their perspectives on this issue.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I'm a firm believer in "The truth will out". If two conflicting opinions about a person/program/whatever are written, it's usually clear which poster is coming with the truth and which one has an untruthful agenda. We see it on the politics boards all the time. I appreciate that Fanlax doesn't delete posts and that you allow adults to interact as they do--like out in the real world, where every interaction isn't always pleasant. You've got the rules and guidelines in place. As long as there are no legal concerns, I think things are fine the way they are.

[MDlaxfan76]

It's a thorny topic, for sure.

On the one hand, we should not encourage the use of this largely anonymous forum to actually hurt people with mistruths.

On the other, serious issues deserve serious discussion and reliance solely on public press has repeatedly proven insufficient across many sports. Much of the media's financial bias in our sport is to the promotion of the popularity of the game and its 'adults' and players, not critique. There are actual important issues that deserve discussion and forum members include those with particular insights to share as well as opinions.

And it's impossible to expect moderators to know what is fully true and what is fully false.

LaxPower took a very different tack, and seemed to protect particular lax community members from tough non-public press critique...and not others. It very much had the feel of moderator bias, a who you like and drink beer with kind of bias. I think that was detrimental to why people of good will participate in a forum like this.

When this forum was created, prospective forum members were asked to weigh in and we specifically discussed the issue and opted for much more openness to tough critique, with full discussion. Point, counterpoint. And not limited to X's and O's.

The moderator has the mandate to restrict personal attacks by forum members at each other and to restrict actual trolling, clearly intentional misinformation designed to inflame.

In the latter aspect, trolling behavior becomes apparent by repeated inflammatory acts. It's not that it never happens, but it gets restrained through feedback and escalating penalties.

Otherwise, "adults" do have the opportunity to challenge one another's posts and it indeed usually becomes clear when someone is shading truth or outright lying.

I'd rather see those disagreements than not. There are legitimate differences of opinion, based on differing perspectives, experiences and personal insights. The more that these are shared openly the easier it is to discern what's actually happening.

[PizzaSnake]

It's a thorny topic, for sure.

On the one hand, we should not encourage the use of this largely anonymous forum to actually hurt people with mistruths.

On the other, serious issues deserve serious discussion and reliance solely on public press has repeatedly proven insufficient across many sports. Much of the media's financial bias in our sport is to the promotion of the popularity of the game and its 'adults' and players, not critique. There are actual important issues that deserve discussion and forum members include those with particular insights to share as well as opinions.

And it's impossible to expect moderators to know what is fully true and what is fully false.

LaxPower took a very different tack, and seemed to protect particular lax community members from tough non-public press critique...and not others. It very much had the feel of moderator bias, a who you like and drink beer with kind of bias. I think that was detrimental to why people of good will participate in a forum like this.

When this forum was created, prospective forum members were asked to weigh in and we specifically discussed the issue and opted for much more openness to tough critique, with full discussion. Point, counterpoint. And not limited to X's and O's.

The moderator has the mandate to restrict personal attacks by forum members at each other and to restrict actual trolling, clearly intentional misinformation designed to inflame.

In the latter aspect, trolling behavior becomes apparent by repeated inflammatory acts. It's not that it never happens, but it gets restrained through feedback and escalating penalties.

Otherwise, "adults" do have the opportunity to challenge one another's posts and it indeed usually becomes clear when someone is shading truth or outright lying.

I'd rather see those disagreements than not. There are legitimate differences of opinion, based on differing perspectives, experiences and personal insights. The more that these are shared openly the easier it is to discern what's actually happening.

Tough job. Thanks for doing it and providing this forum.

[MDlaxfan76]

It's a thorny topic, for sure.

On the one hand, we should not encourage the use of this largely anonymous forum to actually hurt people with mistruths.

On the other, serious issues deserve serious discussion and reliance solely on public press has repeatedly proven insufficient across many sports. Much of the media's financial bias in our sport is to the promotion of the popularity of the game and its 'adults' and players, not critique. There are actual important issues that deserve discussion and forum members include those with particular insights to share as well as opinions.

And it's impossible to expect moderators to know what is fully true and what is fully false.

LaxPower took a very different tack, and seemed to protect particular lax community members from tough non-public press critique...and not others. It very much had the feel of moderator bias, a who you like and drink beer with kind of bias. I think that was detrimental to why people of good will participate in a forum like this.

When this forum was created, prospective forum members were asked to weigh in and we specifically discussed the issue and opted for much more openness to tough critique, with full discussion. Point, counterpoint. And not limited to X's and O's.

The moderator has the mandate to restrict personal attacks by forum members at each other and to restrict actual trolling, clearly intentional misinformation designed to inflame.

In the latter aspect, trolling behavior becomes apparent by repeated inflammatory acts. It's not that it never happens, but it gets restrained through feedback and escalating penalties.

Otherwise, "adults" do have the opportunity to challenge one another's posts and it indeed usually becomes clear when someone is shading truth or outright lying.

I'd rather see those disagreements than not. There are legitimate differences of opinion, based on differing perspectives, experiences and personal insights. The more that these are shared openly the easier it is to discern what's actually happening.

Tough job. Thanks for doing it and providing this forum.

Agreed, thanks to those who provide the opportunity and thanks also to the participants who keep it informative and lively, and help with civility.

More participants wanted!

[Matnum PI]

To bring this to life, it's not uncommon for us to get messages, e-mails from people saying, There's a post that isn't true! And, on more than one occasion we've received messages, e-mails from coaches, on more than one occasion from head coaches of prominent programs saying, There's a post that isn't true! Nine out of ten times, the post is deriding the coach for being abusive incompetent, nefarious in some way, etc. And the coach contacts us directly and says, These posts need to be deleted! We've been around for a bunch of years/seasons and we've yet to delete a post. We've edited posts to remove profanity or whatever. But we've never markedly changed a post let a lone deleted one. So we don't take the coach's request lightly. Our standard reply is to suggest that they post a reply to the post. (We also sometimes ignore the message and/or e-mail. Sometimes it just seems best to not engage. Just being candid.) Anyway, nothing currently urgent. But it does come up so I wanted to make sure to recognize this reality. For the record, once I got on the phone with a head coach. I didn't regret it but it does seem to be best to not engage too deeply with post-ers and people who don't like certain post-ers offline.

[Kismet]

To bring this to life, it's not uncommon for us to get messages, e-mails from people saying, There's a post that isn't true! And, on more than one occasion we've received messages, e-mails from coaches, on more than one occasion from head coaches of prominent programs saying, There's a post that isn't true! Nine out of ten times, the post is deriding the coach for being abusive incompetent, nefarious in some way, etc. And the coach contacts us directly and says, These posts need to be deleted! We've been around for a bunch of years/seasons and we've yet to delete a post. We've edited posts to remove profanity or whatever. But we've never markedly changed a post let a lone deleted one. So we don't take the coach's request lightly. Our standard reply is to suggest that they post a reply to the post. (We also sometimes ignore the message and/or e-mail. Sometimes it just seems best to not engage. Just being candid.) Anyway, nothing currently urgent. But it does come up so I wanted to make sure to recognize this reality. For the record, once I got on the phone with a head coach. I didn't regret it but it does seem to be best to not engage too deeply with post-ers and people who don't like certain post-ers offline.

Sure hope you have good legal counsel.

[Matnum PI]

Sure hope you have good legal counsel.

[Bart]

To bring this to life, it's not uncommon for us to get messages, e-mails from people saying, There's a post that isn't true! And, on more than one occasion we've received messages, e-mails from coaches, on more than one occasion from head coaches of prominent programs saying, There's a post that isn't true! Nine out of ten times, the post is deriding the coach for being abusive incompetent, nefarious in some way, etc. And the coach contacts us directly and says, These posts need to be deleted! We've been around for a bunch of years/seasons and we've yet to delete a post. We've edited posts to remove profanity or whatever. But we've never markedly changed a post let a lone deleted one. So we don't take the coach's request lightly. Our standard reply is to suggest that they post a reply to the post. (We also sometimes ignore the message and/or e-mail. Sometimes it just seems best to not engage. Just being candid.) Anyway, nothing currently urgent. But it does come up so I wanted to make sure to recognize this reality. For the record, once I got on the phone with a head coach. I didn't regret it but it does seem to be best to not engage too deeply with post-ers and people who don't like certain post-ers offline.

So, the "forum" accepts the idea that a poster can post what he/she wants about a player or coach and that is ok. A post is such as this is probably seen as a direct personal attack to the individual being spoken about. Now, if a poster gets his/her panties in a wad regarding a post that is seen as a personal "attack" on them the admin will step in? Interesting.

[Matnum PI]

So, the "forum" accepts the idea that a poster can post what he/she wants about a player or coach and that is ok... personal "attack" on them the admin will step in...

Correct. This is a forum for discussions. Discussions about teams, players, coaches, sticks, helmets, etc. Everything and anything about lacrosse (and politics and other stuff, too). Discussions about the people who are discussing lacrosse is substantially of less interest to us.

[Bart]

So, the "forum" accepts the idea that a poster can post what he/she wants about a player or coach and that is ok... personal "attack" on them the admin will step in...

Correct. This is a forum for discussions. Discussions about teams, players, coaches, sticks, helmets, etc. Everything and anything about lacrosse (and politics and other stuff, too). Discussions about the people who are discussing lacrosse is substantially of less interest to us.

sometimes you just have to call an a-hole an a-hole.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Where is it written that disagreements of opinion must necessarily descend into personal insults? Wasn't that all covered back when we carried our Speed Racer lunch boxes to grade school?

[MDlaxfan76]

So, the "forum" accepts the idea that a poster can post what he/she wants about a player or coach and that is ok... personal "attack" on them the admin will step in...

Correct. This is a forum for discussions. Discussions about teams, players, coaches, sticks, helmets, etc. Everything and anything about lacrosse (and politics and other stuff, too). Discussions about the people who are discussing lacrosse is substantially of less interest to us.

sometimes you just have to call an a-hole an a-hole.

And sometimes that might be a coach, right?

Seriously, who in the sport or in politics or in education or... should be entirely off limits to critique?
If a critique seems not based in more than hyperbole, it tends to fall flat on its own lack of substance.

Surely, if a critique is blatantly meritless, other participants will say so.
If something is factually incorrect, other participants are free to refute.

And the 'public figures' (and yes, coaches are public figures) can participate directly, though probably wiser to simply avoid unless a purely factual statement has not been addressed. But a back and forth with a poster could never reflect well on the public figure. Others will likely carry that water just fine if the critique is meritless, and perhaps even if it's not.

But what we are generally talking about here are critiques that have some basis to have formed an opinion that is being expressed. Reasonable people may disagree, others may not have much basis to agree or disagree.

How that critique is made can certainly violate the rules of the forum, ala the trolling rule. And how posters interact with one another can violate the main 'unsportsmanlike conduct' rule, but the forum isn't intended as a puffery site for the sport or any specific people, right?