2024 Women’s Tewaaraton Watch List

[njbill]

An "out of frame" shot caught or deflected by a goalie is not a save. Perhaps this person means something else. Shot has to be on frame, and stopped or deflected by the goalie, to constitute a save.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Women’s First Round Additions

Olivia Adamson, Syracuse - Jr., Attack
Chase Boyle, Loyola Maryland - Jr., Midfield
Jorden Concordia, Saint Joseph's - Sr., Goalie
Jenika Cuocco, Drexel - RS Soph., Goalie
Mckenna Davis, Boston College - Jr., Attack
Kelly Denes, Notre Dame - Sr., Midfield
Maggi Hall, Florida - Sr., Attack
Kendall Halpern, Northwestern - Sr., Defense
Callie Hem, Harvard - Jr., Attack
Kayla Martello, Boston College - Sr., Attack
Erin O’Grady, Michigan - Jr., Goalie
Morgan Schwab, Virginia - Sr., Attack

The second round of Watch List additions will be announced March 28, before the field will be narrowed to 25 Women’s Nominees on April 18.

Let the kvetching begin.

O’Grady will not make it to the finals. She’s benefited from a great team D that is giving her a lot of easy saves and an overall low shot count. She’s decent but she’s no Meg. I’m enjoying her season and how the defense and her and meshed so well together. They are a lot of fun to watch! It’s just a dialed in D unit.

Interesting. Which games have you watched to come to this conclusion? I'd love to check them out and see what you're referring to.

You can start with Denver. They probably have her 13 saves up on their Instagram Reels. There are a few good ones in there, but the majority are just bad shots.

Goalies will recognize this if you ask them. She’s still making the saves, but it’s not the same quality of shots. We will see how she holds up against better competition.

I took your advice.

A recently graduated starting goaltender for a perennially ranked top 20 team weighed in with this:

"Honestly I doubt a goalie will ever win the Tewaaraton again. It’s becoming best attacker. I was a goalie with an amazing defense IMO but when goalies are making 15 saves a game and making it look like bad shots, that’s usually the sign of a good goalie. Obviously some shots are easy saves. Duh. But if you're in position and communicating to your defense and commanding their actions, then you are a reason for the bad shot being taken--good goalie. More than just flashy saves, it’s good positioning and good commanding leadership. Makes it look easy to an ignorant eye. I think she’s very good though."

From a former ACC goalie still very actively playing:

“She’s got in frame saves but she also has out of frame saves. Positioning is part of being a good goalie. I also think any goalie can be really freaking good if you have the number one defense in front of you. Because you see less shots. So I beg to differ when we say we have like these really good goalies on really good teams. If we put them with a different defense would they still be making the same amount of saves? And vice versa? So, I don't know, I look at—a good goalie is literally an active goalie, one that makes saves that they're supposed to make, and with good positioning regardless of what's in front of them.

Sometimes my highest highlights; my season career high stats are based off losing games but against really really good teams so, I don’t know—all different.”

And last but by no means least:

Another goaltender weighs in—this one currently still playing for a perennially ranked top 20 team:

"I agree with the point that she probably won’t make it to the finals just because I do not think Michigan is going to outperform as a whole in the end. A goalie up for this award is already at a disadvantage on the best team … on a team with very little post season experience I think there is almost no shot regardless of how amazing she is. I honestly haven’t seen too many of Michigan’s games but what I have seen I’ve been impressed with. She is clearly a goalie with great fundamentals … you have to be to stand up against Denver

Another way of phrasing this … O’Grady and Laliberty could be the same caliber goalie and I think that Laliberty would have a much easier time winning from a notoriety of both herself and team perspective. In other words—Laliberty, Dolce, Moreno etc. had/have a much bigger name in the sport, bigger presence, more noteworthy, etc. All have been to final fours and won or lost natty’s. They are all amazing goalies WITH a name that people are more likely to recognize. Less people know Erin, which is unfortunate, and Michigan is a less prominent team, both of which are factors working against her regardless of how she ends up performing.”

[MolonLaxe]

Great job ONW. It’s great to hear some insight from other goalies. This makes great content.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Great job ONW. It’s great to hear some insight from other goalies. This makes great content.

Thank you. It's my privilege and pleasure.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

An "out of frame" shot caught or deflected by a goalie is not a save. Perhaps this person means something else. Shot has to be on frame, and stopped or deflected by the goalie, to constitute a save.

....aaaaand her unfiltered response:

"This dude's an idiot. The frame of the goalie. Not the goal. Out of frame save. Never had to explain that in my life lol. There can be frames within the goalie’s frame, which is like within their chest, or outside of the goalie’s frame which is outside of their chest. And if a goalie has good positioning I'm assuming they’re gonna have more in-frame saves. That's the whole entire point of having good positioning. So, I don't know what this dude’s talking about—I’m not talking about the frame of the damn goal—the frame of the goalie."

[njbill]

Nice company you keep. She sounds like a real peach. As I said, perhaps this person means something else. The "frame" generally means the 6x6. Obviously. She apparently has a different meaning, which is fine.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Nice company you keep. She sounds like a real peach. As I said, perhaps this person means something else. The "frame" generally means the 6x6. Obviously. She apparently has a different meaning, which is fine.

She's a goalie and you're not. Should have left well enough alone. Not a peach--a Tiger. I'd be honored to keep her company.

[njbill]

For a guy who claims he never reads my posts, you sure respond to them a lot.

Look, I don’t know if you’re making this whole thing up or not. In the past, you have admitted that you fabricate things. Regardless, if she intended to use the term differently, that’s fine. No need to get snarky.

[NattyBohChamps04]

For a guy who claims he never reads my posts, you sure respond to them a lot.

Look, I don’t know if you’re making this whole thing up or not. In the past, you have admitted that you fabricate things. Regardless, if she intended to use the term differently, that’s fine. No need to get snarky.

Fellow non lacrosse goalie idiot here. Haven't heard frame in referring to the goalie's frame in ~15 years of college coaching. Coached an ACC defender of the year goalie and coached alongside multiple former D1 and pro goalies over the years.

I'm sure some may use that term that way, but it doesn't make a ton of sense to me without a proper explanation. And calling someone an idiot for not knowing your personal terminology? That's some cringey stuff right there. Oh to have the confidence and wisdom of my youth again.

I was a soccer goalie for a long time and never heard that usage either. Frame was always the goal frame.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

For a guy who claims he never reads my posts, you sure respond to them a lot.

Look, I don’t know if you’re making this whole thing up or not. In the past, you have admitted that you fabricate things. Regardless, if she intended to use the term differently, that’s fine. No need to get snarky.

Yep--occasionally cat curiosity gets the better of me--especially in this case where you didn't quote me. I wanted to read what you had to say in response to what the three goalies wrote. Your mansplaining didn't sit well with the woman you were correcting. You could just as easily have responded to her comments with a request for clarification. Yet you chose to explain things to her while leaving yourself an out.

In the past, I have admitted that I fabricate things?? Pray tell, which past was that? What exactly did I admit to fabricating?

Now, I know you have years of knowledge and experience in the legal profession, so I know you aren't supposed to make claims that you don't already have proof of. I also know that in the field of law, one has to choose one's words precisely.

I'll wait...

[njbill]

In the past, I have admitted that I fabricate things?? Pray tell, which past was that? What exactly did I admit to fabricating?

“Which past”? Hmm. Let’s see. Was it your past as ONW, or your past as wlaxnut, or as cletus, or as angus? (I’m probably forgetting some.) Or was it under the handle you were using last year to take shots at players or when you’ve used Lord knows how many other screen names folks on the board haven't uncovered as yet?

You really think I’m going to spend a week combing through your thousands and thousands of posts under all of your screen names to find the post in question? I know you said it. You know you said it. Long time posters know you said it. That’s enough. I really don’t think you want to go down the road of denying you posted things when people know otherwise. What’s next? Are you going to deny you claimed North Carolina was “cheating” when they scheduled 15 regular season games this year?

If your imaginary friend is actually real, and if she took my post as manspaining even though I did qualify my response, I guess I can see that on reflection. Didn’t mean it that way. Doesn’t excuse her pejorative response, however. A simple “I was using the term differently” would’ve sufficed.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

See—this is PRECISELY why I don’t interact with you. I knew you'd come back with dick. If an opposing party tried to do this to you on the opposite side of the table in a conference room you’d eviscerate them—but because it’s on a women’s lacrosse fan board you think you can get away with it. No proof that I ever admitted fabricating anything, no nothing—just bullschidt conjecture. Buh-bye, Bill!!

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

McKenzie Blake, Princeton – Jr., Attack
Maggie Bostain, Viginia – Sr., Defense
Katia Carnevale, Virginia – Grad. Student, Attack
Mary Kelly Doherty, Notre Dame – Sr., Midfield
Kaylee Dyer, Michigan – Jr., Attack
Maddie Epke, James Madison – Soph., Attack
Alex Finn, Stony Brook – Grad. Student, Attack
Katie Goodale, Syracuse – Sr., Defense
Clare Levy, Stony Brook – Sr., Defense
Mia Mascone, Brown – Sr., Attack
Madeline Montgomery, William Smith – Sr., Midfield
Anna Palmisano, Denver – Sr., Defense
Caitlyn Wurzburger, North Carolina – Sr., Attack

On April 18, the field will be narrowed to 25 Men’s and 25 Women’s Nominees. Nominees can be players from the Watch Lists or not from the Watch Lists, effectively allowing for a third round of additions.

[Madlax59]

McKenzie Blake, Princeton – Jr., Attack
Maggie Bostain, Viginia – Sr., Defense
Katia Carnevale, Virginia – Grad. Student, Attack
Mary Kelly Doherty, Notre Dame – Sr., Midfield
Kaylee Dyer, Michigan – Jr., Attack
Maddie Epke, James Madison – Soph., Attack
Alex Finn, Stony Brook – Grad. Student, Attack
Katie Goodale, Syracuse – Sr., Defense
Clare Levy, Stony Brook – Sr., Defense
Mia Mascone, Brown – Sr., Attack
Madeline Montgomery, William Smith – Sr., Midfield
Anna Palmisano, Denver – Sr., Defense
Caitlyn Wurzburger, North Carolina – Sr., Attack

On April 18, the field will be narrowed to 25 Men’s and 25 Women’s Nominees. Nominees can be players from the Watch Lists or not from the Watch Lists, effectively allowing for a third round of additions.

Wurtzburger??? have seen nothing from her for her to be added to list. Especially that last game v NU.

[watcherinthewoods]

What is amazing to me is that Wurtzberger got a nod and Anna Brandt from Penn is nowhere to be found. SMH.

[Madlax59]

What is amazing to me is that Wurtzberger got a nod and Anna Brandt from Penn is nowhere to be found. SMH.

Thats crazy....further, she's not named as a mid season AA but shes on the Tewey watch list?

[ACClaxfan]

What is amazing to me is that Wurtzberger got a nod and Anna Brandt from Penn is nowhere to be found. SMH.

Thats crazy....further, she's not named as a mid season AA but shes on the Tewey watch list?

No offense but inside lacrosse AA list is complete nonsense . IWLCA and Tewaaraton people are way better and less political.

[Justalaxdad]

What is amazing to me is that Wurtzberger got a nod and Anna Brandt from Penn is nowhere to be found. SMH.

Thats crazy....further, she's not named as a mid season AA but shes on the Tewey watch list?

No offense but inside lacrosse AA list is complete nonsense . IWLCA and Tewaaraton people are way better and less political.

Couldn't agree more. To a certain degree it's a name game. ND doesn't have a single player on it's roster that currently sits in the top 30 for goals, assists OR total points and yet they have two first team players listed. This is why the pre-season AA listed are ridiculous because now you have publications who want to justify their pre-season picks by keeping players there who don't deserve to be there.

[intheknow247]

What is amazing to me is that Wurtzberger got a nod and Anna Brandt from Penn is nowhere to be found. SMH.

Thats crazy....further, she's not named as a mid season AA but shes on the Tewey watch list?

No offense but inside lacrosse AA list is complete nonsense . IWLCA and Tewaaraton people are way better and less political.

Couldn't agree more. To a certain degree it's a name game. ND doesn't have a single player on it's roster that currently sits in the top 30 for goals, assists OR total points and yet they have two first team players listed. This is why the pre-season AA listed are ridiculous because now you have publications who want to justify their pre-season picks by keeping players there who don't deserve to be there.

Got it, so to earn AA you must rank high in stats...check.

[Justalaxdad]

What is amazing to me is that Wurtzberger got a nod and Anna Brandt from Penn is nowhere to be found. SMH.

Thats crazy....further, she's not named as a mid season AA but shes on the Tewey watch list?

No offense but inside lacrosse AA list is complete nonsense . IWLCA and Tewaaraton people are way better and less political.

Couldn't agree more. To a certain degree it's a name game. ND doesn't have a single player on it's roster that currently sits in the top 30 for goals, assists OR total points and yet they have two first team players listed. This is why the pre-season AA listed are ridiculous because now you have publications who want to justify their pre-season picks by keeping players there who don't deserve to be there.

Got it, so to earn AA you must rank high in stats...check.

No, it’s obviously not the only criteria but not even in the top 30 in ANY offensive stat! Are you seriously asking/stating that?

And I stand corrected - one of the players is tied for 25th in goals but not listed for some reason.

My beef really isn’t solely with ND players, both of whom are very good players. It’s with the players that are on top 10 ranked teams and in the top 10 in points yet they can’t crack the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd teams at the midway point. It seems that if you aren’t on a preseason team before anyone has played a minute of lacrosse, you’re going to have a hard time cracking the list no matter how much your play speaks for itself.