Them vs. U.S. - The Two Americas ...

[MDlaxfan76]

Btw, there’s no way that those percentages claimed about ivy education wanting to ban things like private air conditioning and leisure travel are remotely correct. A lot of this Rasmussen survey jumped out at me as being ridiculously overstated. Sampling bias. But that’s what you get with Rasmussen.

The bias of the authors is ridiculous as well. But that’s what you get with propaganda.

That said, there’s definitely a difference in views between college educated and non college educated, and more so with post college degrees. Affluence tracks with higher education, both because affluent families afford that education, and our capitalist society rewards expertise, and scientific innovation, often only acquired through higher education. Plumbers do well too, so education comes in different ways, but predominantly through formal education.

And education typically provides a wider and deeper perspective and understanding of history, civics, philosophy as well as science…that’s undoubtedly going to lead to different views, arguably more informed views.

And affluence itself, especially inherited, but also directly earned is going to lead to less awareness of the situation of others with less. One aspect is the luxury of having a longer term perspective. To think about long term costs and benefits requires not being consumed by short term stress.

So, sure, there are differences…and those who wish to attract the support of voters with differing perspectives would do well to try to be empathetic , walk in their shoes. And communicate in ways that connect with those perspectives while translating why longer term choices matter as well…children is the most effective way to translate this.

The alternative is the populist fascist or communist authoritarian pitch, demonizing the Other, better yet multiple others, and promising immediate relief if they only have the full powers necessary. Some percentage of people are vulnerable to such pitch.

Reagan is an example of a Republican who took the empathy path, highly effectively. Clinton and Obama are Democrat examples. Biden as well, but none of those others faced a fascist opponent.

Note, Obama particularly freaked out the segment which is vulnerable. Along with social changes coming seemingly swiftly, ala gay marriage. This exacerbated a sense of alienation within their own country.

Back up the bus there for a moment. Is my memory failing me here? I thought Barack and Michelle were against gay marriage before they were for it. Those sudden bolts of enlightenment always seem to happen at just the right time. When the winds of change start shifting you need to become a windsock. If your against gay marriage today some people might smack a label on you that says your a fascist.

I was always under the impression that core values don't normally change with the tides?

So was Joe, and a whole lot of folks of goodwill. Most of us just really didn’t understand, did we? But change came fast, acceptance grew swiftly, as more and more people had family or friends who benefited. More so if you went to college recently or had kids going to college, as those but across the board eventually. But for some, such change was very unsettling, and some continue to oppose any further progress in understanding and accepting various differences from their own narrow world. And those opposed to such have mostly coalesced in the GOP…same for religious and racial bigotries.

My mom was a devout Catholic her entire life. As I have stated many times she raised us in the old school liberal tradition. Devout Catholics believe with no ambiguity that abortion involves killing a human life. That is not only a huge part of Catholic dogma but a rock solid core belief of Catholicism. The world and the church itself have become much more malleable over the past few decades. The new and improved version of Catholic dogma is redefined as " love the sinner, hate the sin" If your a devout Catholic then you believe there will be a judgement day where you will have to atone for your sins. I don't know if going to confession gets the job done. Core values to my understanding are not negotiable. That is why they call them core values. I'm trying to contemplate my moms response to someone telling her to get with the times Cathy, your views on abortion are way out of lines with the times. I only wonder what Jesus would have to say about it? I don't think Jesus Christ ever compromised on his fathers core values. The 10 commandments might just as well be changed to the 10

suggestions by the way issues are defined today.

Full disclosure, who a person chooses to marry is none of my business. One can't ignore that for many people of faith the concept of marriage being between one man and one woman has always been a core belief of their religious beliefs. I bet the founding fathers never contemplated this moral dilemma.

Whole lot of dogmatic traditions in the Catholic Church. But not exactly a paragon of morality or “core values” as an institution, right?

Personally, I take no issue in folks making their own choices, for themselves alone, in what they believe and do…themselves. It’s when they try to impose their religious views on others that is the problem. And when they use the powers of government to impose their dogmatic views, big problem.

So, as to abortion I take no issue with a woman believing that abortion is a sin and not having a procedure no matter what… but don’t tell another woman she can’t make her own decisions. Same for choices of who to love, how someone wishes to identify, etc… make your own decisions, don’t impose your religiously derived views on others.

Ethics are another matter, but religious dogma should not control others who do not share those beliefs.

[Farfromgeneva]

The Two Americas and How the Nation’s Elite Is Out of Touch with Average Americans

The people who run America, or at least think they do, live in a bubble of their own construction. They’ve isolated themselves from everyday America’s realities to such a degree their views about what is and what should be happening in this country differ widely from the average American’s. An analysis of their thinking, conducted for the Committee to Unleash Prosperity, finds that on a variety of economic, social, and political issues, there exists a wide gap between how the top 1% – the Elites – think things should be and how the rest of America looks at them.

https://committeetounleashprosperity.co ... -FINAL.pdf

Are these people elite or what perspective are they writing from? Aren’t they presuming to know what’s in others minds the way you object to here?

I happen to know both types of 1%ers. The broad statement is just dumb.

This is akin to tossing up a paper by the militant end of the Black Panthers: “Fng crackers are so out of touch with reality for all black people. You all suck and don’t understand so you should go away and die”. I’m sure that would go over well here.

[Farfromgeneva]

The Two Americas and How the Nation’s Elite Is Out of Touch with Average Americans

The people who run America, or at least think they do, live in a bubble of their own construction. They’ve isolated themselves from everyday America’s realities to such a degree their views about what is and what should be happening in this country differ widely from the average American’s. An analysis of their thinking, conducted for the Committee to Unleash Prosperity, finds that on a variety of economic, social, and political issues, there exists a wide gap between how the top 1% – the Elites – think things should be and how the rest of America looks at them.

https://committeetounleashprosperity.co ... -FINAL.pdf

I see the propaganda mills are spinning up. "Committee to unleash prosperity?"

"Unleash?" Really? Evocative of a Esso mash-up with the Tony the Tiger campaign.

Unleash prosperity on women and minorities. Sherriff Roy Tilman style.

[Farfromgeneva]

Btw, there’s no way that those percentages claimed about ivy education wanting to ban things like private air conditioning and leisure travel are remotely correct. A lot of this Rasmussen survey jumped out at me as being ridiculously overstated. Sampling bias. But that’s what you get with Rasmussen.

The bias of the authors is ridiculous as well. But that’s what you get with propaganda.

That said, there’s definitely a difference in views between college educated and non college educated, and more so with post college degrees. Affluence tracks with higher education, both because affluent families afford that education, and our capitalist society rewards expertise, and scientific innovation, often only acquired through higher education. Plumbers do well too, so education comes in different ways, but predominantly through formal education.

And education typically provides a wider and deeper perspective and understanding of history, civics, philosophy as well as science…that’s undoubtedly going to lead to different views, arguably more informed views.

And affluence itself, especially inherited, but also directly earned is going to lead to less awareness of the situation of others with less. One aspect is the luxury of having a longer term perspective. To think about long term costs and benefits requires not being consumed by short term stress.

So, sure, there are differences…and those who wish to attract the support of voters with differing perspectives would do well to try to be empathetic , walk in their shoes. And communicate in ways that connect with those perspectives while translating why longer term choices matter as well…children is the most effective way to translate this.

The alternative is the populist fascist or communist authoritarian pitch, demonizing the Other, better yet multiple others, and promising immediate relief if they only have the full powers necessary. Some percentage of people are vulnerable to such pitch.

Reagan is an example of a Republican who took the empathy path, highly effectively. Clinton and Obama are Democrat examples. Biden as well, but none of those others faced a fascist opponent.

Note, Obama particularly freaked out the segment which is vulnerable. Along with social changes coming seemingly swiftly, ala gay marriage. This exacerbated a sense of alienation within their own country.

Back up the bus there for a moment. Is my memory failing me here? I thought Barack and Michelle were against gay marriage before they were for it. Those sudden bolts of enlightenment always seem to happen at just the right time. When the winds of change start shifting you need to become a windsock. If your against gay marriage today some people might smack a label on you that says your a fascist.

I was always under the impression that core values don't normally change with the tides?

Maybe it wasn’t a “core” value. Maybe you want to reduce and shrink the definition of core to be very basic stuff .

[Farfromgeneva]

The Two Americas and How the Nation’s Elite Is Out of Touch with Average Americans

The people who run America, or at least think they do, live in a bubble of their own construction. They’ve isolated themselves from everyday America’s realities to such a degree their views about what is and what should be happening in this country differ widely from the average American’s. An analysis of their thinking, conducted for the Committee to Unleash Prosperity, finds that on a variety of economic, social, and political issues, there exists a wide gap between how the top 1% – the Elites – think things should be and how the rest of America looks at them.

https://committeetounleashprosperity.co ... -FINAL.pdf

I see the propaganda mills are spinning up. "Committee to unleash prosperity?"

"Unleash?" Really?

Protip: if you want to hide the fact that you're simply a group of rightwingnutjobs.....don't criticize Biden while leaving out Trump.

And don't imply that you think parents should be in charge of teaching our kids instead of, oh, I don't know....trained professionals who actually know how to teach kids. F them, right?

Thinly veiled? It's veiled at all, Natty.

Point of order a Fan. There is a large number of parents who choose homeschooling because they have lost faith in the ability of "trained professionals" to properly educate their children. It might be that they are unimpressed with the curriculum being offered to their children. It takes a huge investment in time and dedication to teach your child at home. No need to be concerned about what your child is learning at school. The downside is your childs interaction with kids their own age becomes limited

And they are expected to be in touch with society while be removed from it largely for their developmental years.

[Farfromgeneva]

Point of order a Fan. There is a large number of parents who choose homeschooling because they have lost faith in the ability of "trained professionals" to properly educate their children. It might be that they are unimpressed with the curriculum being offered to their children. It takes a huge investment in time and dedication to teach your child at home. No need to be concerned about what your child is learning at school. The downside is your childs interaction with kids their own age becomes limited

Not at all! I'm 100% supportive of homeschooling. Engaged parents are shown to do a pretty good job of it. But much of that is: it's a one on one interaction. Easier to teach one than 35, obviously.

What I'm reacting to, and what you and I have discussed before is for PUBLIC schools.

A. parents aren't trained to teach. Teachers are.

B. if we're going to let untrained parents decide what and who kids are taught: who are the lucky parents that get to make that call? Do I get to make the choice for ALL the other parents in my daughter's school?

In short, it's impossible to let parents choose how and what we teach our kids. You have to ELECT someone to do that, and/or APPOINT a rep. Which is exactly what we have been doing.

2023 RightWingers have been taught that among other enemies, teachers are their enemy. Read that out loud. Tell me you think that's right.

My head maltster's wife just left teaching after just 3 years in. Why? Piddly Denver pay coming from Colorado's right wingers, coupled with an unsafe work environment coming from left (and right, believe it or not) wingers.

A kid bit a teacher at her school last week. Know what happened? Nothing. Police weren't called. Kid wasn't expelled or suspended.

We are asking teachers to be the ONLY workers in America who aren't entitled to a safe workspace. And until we fix this? America will continue to circle the drain.

I have a friend whose wife chose to home school their kid for a more troublesome reason. Their son was being bullied and beat up at school. Repeated efforts to stop it only made matters worse. I don't know if that is isolated but I know it left both parents very frustrated with their sons school.

I had three kids kill themselves in bathrooms during my high school time at BHS. Bullying wasn’t even a discussion then. It was just “toughen up” or “avoid those boys” (except the only fights I got into was with those boys for really messing with weak kids, nearly got stabbed once but just a flesh slice that healed fine on the side of my stomach). Home schooling wasn’t even a consideration given those circumstances somehow though.

[Farfromgeneva]

Point of order a Fan. There is a large number of parents who choose homeschooling because they have lost faith in the ability of "trained professionals" to properly educate their children. It might be that they are unimpressed with the curriculum being offered to their children. It takes a huge investment in time and dedication to teach your child at home. No need to be concerned about what your child is learning at school. The downside is your childs interaction with kids their own age becomes limited

Not at all! I'm 100% supportive of homeschooling. Engaged parents are shown to do a pretty good job of it. But much of that is: it's a one on one interaction. Easier to teach one than 35, obviously.

What I'm reacting to, and what you and I have discussed before is for PUBLIC schools.

A. parents aren't trained to teach. Teachers are.

B. if we're going to let untrained parents decide what and who kids are taught: who are the lucky parents that get to make that call? Do I get to make the choice for ALL the other parents in my daughter's school?

In short, it's impossible to let parents choose how and what we teach our kids. You have to ELECT someone to do that, and/or APPOINT a rep. Which is exactly what we have been doing.

2023 RightWingers have been taught that among other enemies, teachers are their enemy. Read that out loud. Tell me you think that's right.

My head maltster's wife just left teaching after just 3 years in. Why? Piddly Denver pay coming from Colorado's right wingers, coupled with an unsafe work environment coming from left (and right, believe it or not) wingers.

A kid bit a teacher at her school last week. Know what happened? Nothing. Police weren't called. Kid wasn't expelled or suspended.

We are asking teachers to be the ONLY workers in America who aren't entitled to a safe workspace. And until we fix this? America will continue to circle the drain.

I have a friend whose wife chose to home school their kid for a more troublesome reason. Their son was being bullied and beat up at school. Repeated efforts to stop it only made matters worse. I don't know if that is isolated but I know it left both parents very frustrated with their sons school.

And that’s a heck of a good reason to leave that school, whether resorting to home schooling or not. Bullying, whether violent or not, is a big reason why parents are willing to pay to send their kids to schools with less of a problem, and better discipline. Or move to districts with better.

Of course, some kids attract the bullies, at least for a stage, and that makes it nearly impossible to avoid in a large social environment.

But most home schooling(excluding athletes and entertainment or diplomatic etc) is by evangelicals. Not ok with Catholic, not ok with secular or non-denominational. And not ok with public.

Prep schools have issues too. This kid at Pace was never punished for destroying another kids face. Rich amongst that crowd.

Pace Academy sits down the street from The governors mansion on the street with the most expensive house in the city for reference (paces ferry). I had a colleague who lived in a gated subdivision of like 6 11,000 sq ft houses on the street an their gate code, I turd you not, was 1776…

[MDlaxfan76]

Point of order a Fan. There is a large number of parents who choose homeschooling because they have lost faith in the ability of "trained professionals" to properly educate their children. It might be that they are unimpressed with the curriculum being offered to their children. It takes a huge investment in time and dedication to teach your child at home. No need to be concerned about what your child is learning at school. The downside is your childs interaction with kids their own age becomes limited

Not at all! I'm 100% supportive of homeschooling. Engaged parents are shown to do a pretty good job of it. But much of that is: it's a one on one interaction. Easier to teach one than 35, obviously.

What I'm reacting to, and what you and I have discussed before is for PUBLIC schools.

A. parents aren't trained to teach. Teachers are.

B. if we're going to let untrained parents decide what and who kids are taught: who are the lucky parents that get to make that call? Do I get to make the choice for ALL the other parents in my daughter's school?

In short, it's impossible to let parents choose how and what we teach our kids. You have to ELECT someone to do that, and/or APPOINT a rep. Which is exactly what we have been doing.

2023 RightWingers have been taught that among other enemies, teachers are their enemy. Read that out loud. Tell me you think that's right.

My head maltster's wife just left teaching after just 3 years in. Why? Piddly Denver pay coming from Colorado's right wingers, coupled with an unsafe work environment coming from left (and right, believe it or not) wingers.

A kid bit a teacher at her school last week. Know what happened? Nothing. Police weren't called. Kid wasn't expelled or suspended.

We are asking teachers to be the ONLY workers in America who aren't entitled to a safe workspace. And until we fix this? America will continue to circle the drain.

I have a friend whose wife chose to home school their kid for a more troublesome reason. Their son was being bullied and beat up at school. Repeated efforts to stop it only made matters worse. I don't know if that is isolated but I know it left both parents very frustrated with their sons school.

And that’s a heck of a good reason to leave that school, whether resorting to home schooling or not. Bullying, whether violent or not, is a big reason why parents are willing to pay to send their kids to schools with less of a problem, and better discipline. Or move to districts with better.

Of course, some kids attract the bullies, at least for a stage, and that makes it nearly impossible to avoid in a large social environment.

But most home schooling(excluding athletes and entertainment or diplomatic etc) is by evangelicals. Not ok with Catholic, not ok with secular or non-denominational. And not ok with public.

Prep schools have issues too. This kid at Pace was never punished for destroying another kids face. Rich amongst that crowd.

Pace Academy sits down the street from The governors mansion on the street with the most expensive house in the city for reference (paces ferry). I had a colleague who lived in a gated subdivision of like 6 11,000 sq ft houses on the street an their gate code, I turd you not, was 1776…

Yes, no guarantees.

[Farfromgeneva]

Point of order a Fan. There is a large number of parents who choose homeschooling because they have lost faith in the ability of "trained professionals" to properly educate their children. It might be that they are unimpressed with the curriculum being offered to their children. It takes a huge investment in time and dedication to teach your child at home. No need to be concerned about what your child is learning at school. The downside is your childs interaction with kids their own age becomes limited

Not at all! I'm 100% supportive of homeschooling. Engaged parents are shown to do a pretty good job of it. But much of that is: it's a one on one interaction. Easier to teach one than 35, obviously.

What I'm reacting to, and what you and I have discussed before is for PUBLIC schools.

A. parents aren't trained to teach. Teachers are.

B. if we're going to let untrained parents decide what and who kids are taught: who are the lucky parents that get to make that call? Do I get to make the choice for ALL the other parents in my daughter's school?

In short, it's impossible to let parents choose how and what we teach our kids. You have to ELECT someone to do that, and/or APPOINT a rep. Which is exactly what we have been doing.

2023 RightWingers have been taught that among other enemies, teachers are their enemy. Read that out loud. Tell me you think that's right.

My head maltster's wife just left teaching after just 3 years in. Why? Piddly Denver pay coming from Colorado's right wingers, coupled with an unsafe work environment coming from left (and right, believe it or not) wingers.

A kid bit a teacher at her school last week. Know what happened? Nothing. Police weren't called. Kid wasn't expelled or suspended.

We are asking teachers to be the ONLY workers in America who aren't entitled to a safe workspace. And until we fix this? America will continue to circle the drain.

I have a friend whose wife chose to home school their kid for a more troublesome reason. Their son was being bullied and beat up at school. Repeated efforts to stop it only made matters worse. I don't know if that is isolated but I know it left both parents very frustrated with their sons school.

And that’s a heck of a good reason to leave that school, whether resorting to home schooling or not. Bullying, whether violent or not, is a big reason why parents are willing to pay to send their kids to schools with less of a problem, and better discipline. Or move to districts with better.

Of course, some kids attract the bullies, at least for a stage, and that makes it nearly impossible to avoid in a large social environment.

But most home schooling(excluding athletes and entertainment or diplomatic etc) is by evangelicals. Not ok with Catholic, not ok with secular or non-denominational. And not ok with public.

Prep schools have issues too. This kid at Pace was never punished for destroying another kids face. Rich amongst that crowd.

Pace Academy sits down the street from The governors mansion on the street with the most expensive house in the city for reference (paces ferry). I had a colleague who lived in a gated subdivision of like 6 11,000 sq ft houses on the street an their gate code, I turd you not, was 1776…

Yes, no guarantees.

They’ve managed to turn a lot of it in google searches (“seo”) but here’s a few samples. The old money around here is ridiculous compared with northern old money.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/north- ... utType=amp


https://m.facebook.com/story.php/?id=10 ... 5767595496

[cradleandshoot]

Btw, there’s no way that those percentages claimed about ivy education wanting to ban things like private air conditioning and leisure travel are remotely correct. A lot of this Rasmussen survey jumped out at me as being ridiculously overstated. Sampling bias. But that’s what you get with Rasmussen.

The bias of the authors is ridiculous as well. But that’s what you get with propaganda.

That said, there’s definitely a difference in views between college educated and non college educated, and more so with post college degrees. Affluence tracks with higher education, both because affluent families afford that education, and our capitalist society rewards expertise, and scientific innovation, often only acquired through higher education. Plumbers do well too, so education comes in different ways, but predominantly through formal education.

And education typically provides a wider and deeper perspective and understanding of history, civics, philosophy as well as science…that’s undoubtedly going to lead to different views, arguably more informed views.

And affluence itself, especially inherited, but also directly earned is going to lead to less awareness of the situation of others with less. One aspect is the luxury of having a longer term perspective. To think about long term costs and benefits requires not being consumed by short term stress.

So, sure, there are differences…and those who wish to attract the support of voters with differing perspectives would do well to try to be empathetic , walk in their shoes. And communicate in ways that connect with those perspectives while translating why longer term choices matter as well…children is the most effective way to translate this.

The alternative is the populist fascist or communist authoritarian pitch, demonizing the Other, better yet multiple others, and promising immediate relief if they only have the full powers necessary. Some percentage of people are vulnerable to such pitch.

Reagan is an example of a Republican who took the empathy path, highly effectively. Clinton and Obama are Democrat examples. Biden as well, but none of those others faced a fascist opponent.

Note, Obama particularly freaked out the segment which is vulnerable. Along with social changes coming seemingly swiftly, ala gay marriage. This exacerbated a sense of alienation within their own country.

Back up the bus there for a moment. Is my memory failing me here? I thought Barack and Michelle were against gay marriage before they were for it. Those sudden bolts of enlightenment always seem to happen at just the right time. When the winds of change start shifting you need to become a windsock. If your against gay marriage today some people might smack a label on you that says your a fascist.

I was always under the impression that core values don't normally change with the tides?

So was Joe, and a whole lot of folks of goodwill. Most of us just really didn’t understand, did we? But change came fast, acceptance grew swiftly, as more and more people had family or friends who benefited. More so if you went to college recently or had kids going to college, as those but across the board eventually. But for some, such change was very unsettling, and some continue to oppose any further progress in understanding and accepting various differences from their own narrow world. And those opposed to such have mostly coalesced in the GOP…same for religious and racial bigotries.

My mom was a devout Catholic her entire life. As I have stated many times she raised us in the old school liberal tradition. Devout Catholics believe with no ambiguity that abortion involves killing a human life. That is not only a huge part of Catholic dogma but a rock solid core belief of Catholicism. The world and the church itself have become much more malleable over the past few decades. The new and improved version of Catholic dogma is redefined as " love the sinner, hate the sin" If your a devout Catholic then you believe there will be a judgement day where you will have to atone for your sins. I don't know if going to confession gets the job done. Core values to my understanding are not negotiable. That is why they call them core values. I'm trying to contemplate my moms response to someone telling her to get with the times Cathy, your views on abortion are way out of lines with the times. I only wonder what Jesus would have to say about it? I don't think Jesus Christ ever compromised on his fathers core values. The 10 commandments might just as well be changed to the 10

suggestions by the way issues are defined today.

Full disclosure, who a person chooses to marry is none of my business. One can't ignore that for many people of faith the concept of marriage being between one man and one woman has always been a core belief of their religious beliefs. I bet the founding fathers never contemplated this moral dilemma.

Whole lot of dogmatic traditions in the Catholic Church. But not exactly a paragon of morality or “core values” as an institution, right?

Personally, I take no issue in folks making their own choices, for themselves alone, in what they believe and do…themselves. It’s when they try to impose their religious views on others that is the problem. And when they use the powers of government to impose their dogmatic views, big problem.

So, as to abortion I take no issue with a woman believing that abortion is a sin and not having a procedure no matter what… but don’t tell another woman she can’t make her own decisions. Same for choices of who to love, how someone wishes to identify, etc… make your own decisions, don’t impose your religiously derived views on others.

Ethics are another matter, but religious dogma should not control others who do not share those beliefs.

The flip side of the coin, people of devout and deeply held beliefs consider abortion as the taking of a human life. Since their concerns are irrelevant the fact that in their eyes and in their deeply held beliefs nobody cares and they should just shut up and go away. When an individual equates this procedure to being the equivalent of murder those strong feelings shouldn't be ignored to the extent they are today. That might have something to do as to why the issue is still so volatile today and will continue to be so probably forever. In a rather related perspective many folks hold core beliefs that the AR 15 should be banned and are not willing to compromise even though the 2nd amendment gives that right. It is easy to say that when they are your core beliefs being ignored it becomes a horse of a different color. That might be why core beliefs are so important to the people who have them? In the world they live in they are not something they are willing to compromise on. Raise your hands every one who wants to tell me your deeply held belief that the AR 15 should be banned is something your willing to compromise on. Judging by many comments I have read on this forum I don't think you are.

[Farfromgeneva]

Btw, there’s no way that those percentages claimed about ivy education wanting to ban things like private air conditioning and leisure travel are remotely correct. A lot of this Rasmussen survey jumped out at me as being ridiculously overstated. Sampling bias. But that’s what you get with Rasmussen.

The bias of the authors is ridiculous as well. But that’s what you get with propaganda.

That said, there’s definitely a difference in views between college educated and non college educated, and more so with post college degrees. Affluence tracks with higher education, both because affluent families afford that education, and our capitalist society rewards expertise, and scientific innovation, often only acquired through higher education. Plumbers do well too, so education comes in different ways, but predominantly through formal education.

And education typically provides a wider and deeper perspective and understanding of history, civics, philosophy as well as science…that’s undoubtedly going to lead to different views, arguably more informed views.

And affluence itself, especially inherited, but also directly earned is going to lead to less awareness of the situation of others with less. One aspect is the luxury of having a longer term perspective. To think about long term costs and benefits requires not being consumed by short term stress.

So, sure, there are differences…and those who wish to attract the support of voters with differing perspectives would do well to try to be empathetic , walk in their shoes. And communicate in ways that connect with those perspectives while translating why longer term choices matter as well…children is the most effective way to translate this.

The alternative is the populist fascist or communist authoritarian pitch, demonizing the Other, better yet multiple others, and promising immediate relief if they only have the full powers necessary. Some percentage of people are vulnerable to such pitch.

Reagan is an example of a Republican who took the empathy path, highly effectively. Clinton and Obama are Democrat examples. Biden as well, but none of those others faced a fascist opponent.

Note, Obama particularly freaked out the segment which is vulnerable. Along with social changes coming seemingly swiftly, ala gay marriage. This exacerbated a sense of alienation within their own country.

Back up the bus there for a moment. Is my memory failing me here? I thought Barack and Michelle were against gay marriage before they were for it. Those sudden bolts of enlightenment always seem to happen at just the right time. When the winds of change start shifting you need to become a windsock. If your against gay marriage today some people might smack a label on you that says your a fascist.

I was always under the impression that core values don't normally change with the tides?

So was Joe, and a whole lot of folks of goodwill. Most of us just really didn’t understand, did we? But change came fast, acceptance grew swiftly, as more and more people had family or friends who benefited. More so if you went to college recently or had kids going to college, as those but across the board eventually. But for some, such change was very unsettling, and some continue to oppose any further progress in understanding and accepting various differences from their own narrow world. And those opposed to such have mostly coalesced in the GOP…same for religious and racial bigotries.

My mom was a devout Catholic her entire life. As I have stated many times she raised us in the old school liberal tradition. Devout Catholics believe with no ambiguity that abortion involves killing a human life. That is not only a huge part of Catholic dogma but a rock solid core belief of Catholicism. The world and the church itself have become much more malleable over the past few decades. The new and improved version of Catholic dogma is redefined as " love the sinner, hate the sin" If your a devout Catholic then you believe there will be a judgement day where you will have to atone for your sins. I don't know if going to confession gets the job done. Core values to my understanding are not negotiable. That is why they call them core values. I'm trying to contemplate my moms response to someone telling her to get with the times Cathy, your views on abortion are way out of lines with the times. I only wonder what Jesus would have to say about it? I don't think Jesus Christ ever compromised on his fathers core values. The 10 commandments might just as well be changed to the 10

suggestions by the way issues are defined today.

Full disclosure, who a person chooses to marry is none of my business. One can't ignore that for many people of faith the concept of marriage being between one man and one woman has always been a core belief of their religious beliefs. I bet the founding fathers never contemplated this moral dilemma.

Whole lot of dogmatic traditions in the Catholic Church. But not exactly a paragon of morality or “core values” as an institution, right?

Personally, I take no issue in folks making their own choices, for themselves alone, in what they believe and do…themselves. It’s when they try to impose their religious views on others that is the problem. And when they use the powers of government to impose their dogmatic views, big problem.

So, as to abortion I take no issue with a woman believing that abortion is a sin and not having a procedure no matter what… but don’t tell another woman she can’t make her own decisions. Same for choices of who to love, how someone wishes to identify, etc… make your own decisions, don’t impose your religiously derived views on others.

Ethics are another matter, but religious dogma should not control others who do not share those beliefs.

The flip side of the coin, people of devout and deeply held beliefs consider abortion as the taking of a human life. Since their concerns are irrelevant the fact that in their eyes and in their deeply held beliefs nobody cares and they should just shut up and go away. When an individual equates this procedure to being the equivalent of murder those strong feelings shouldn't be ignored to the extent they are today. That might have something to do as to why the issue is still so volatile today and will continue to be so probably forever. In a rather related perspective many folks hold core beliefs that the AR 15 should be banned and are not willing to compromise even though the 2nd amendment gives that right. It is easy to say that when they are your core beliefs being ignored it becomes a horse of a different color. That might be why core beliefs are so important to the people who have them?

What happens when those folks are cool with the death penalty? Beachside the overlap is substantial?

Those cats aren’t stopping robberies or doing other things to help other citizens when they get unit eh anti abortion mix. Before they go down that path do more on the street to make people’s lives better. That’s the fundamental flaw in these folks position. They’re looking I to other people’s pockets before doing all then can themselves. That’s not being a good Christian at all. Facts.

The gun comparison fails because it’ a direct risk to others. Any risk to society from abortion is secondary or tertiary at best and requires mental gymnastics to articulate. Not the same. A better comparison might be second hand smoke in smoking bans, large soda bans in NYC or ACA rather than the gun one.

[Farfromgeneva]

Btw, there’s no way that those percentages claimed about ivy education wanting to ban things like private air conditioning and leisure travel are remotely correct. A lot of this Rasmussen survey jumped out at me as being ridiculously overstated. Sampling bias. But that’s what you get with Rasmussen.

The bias of the authors is ridiculous as well. But that’s what you get with propaganda.

That said, there’s definitely a difference in views between college educated and non college educated, and more so with post college degrees. Affluence tracks with higher education, both because affluent families afford that education, and our capitalist society rewards expertise, and scientific innovation, often only acquired through higher education. Plumbers do well too, so education comes in different ways, but predominantly through formal education.

And education typically provides a wider and deeper perspective and understanding of history, civics, philosophy as well as science…that’s undoubtedly going to lead to different views, arguably more informed views.

And affluence itself, especially inherited, but also directly earned is going to lead to less awareness of the situation of others with less. One aspect is the luxury of having a longer term perspective. To think about long term costs and benefits requires not being consumed by short term stress.

So, sure, there are differences…and those who wish to attract the support of voters with differing perspectives would do well to try to be empathetic , walk in their shoes. And communicate in ways that connect with those perspectives while translating why longer term choices matter as well…children is the most effective way to translate this.

The alternative is the populist fascist or communist authoritarian pitch, demonizing the Other, better yet multiple others, and promising immediate relief if they only have the full powers necessary. Some percentage of people are vulnerable to such pitch.

Reagan is an example of a Republican who took the empathy path, highly effectively. Clinton and Obama are Democrat examples. Biden as well, but none of those others faced a fascist opponent.

Note, Obama particularly freaked out the segment which is vulnerable. Along with social changes coming seemingly swiftly, ala gay marriage. This exacerbated a sense of alienation within their own country.

Back up the bus there for a moment. Is my memory failing me here? I thought Barack and Michelle were against gay marriage before they were for it. Those sudden bolts of enlightenment always seem to happen at just the right time. When the winds of change start shifting you need to become a windsock. If your against gay marriage today some people might smack a label on you that says your a fascist.

I was always under the impression that core values don't normally change with the tides?

So was Joe, and a whole lot of folks of goodwill. Most of us just really didn’t understand, did we? But change came fast, acceptance grew swiftly, as more and more people had family or friends who benefited. More so if you went to college recently or had kids going to college, as those but across the board eventually. But for some, such change was very unsettling, and some continue to oppose any further progress in understanding and accepting various differences from their own narrow world. And those opposed to such have mostly coalesced in the GOP…same for religious and racial bigotries.

My mom was a devout Catholic her entire life. As I have stated many times she raised us in the old school liberal tradition. Devout Catholics believe with no ambiguity that abortion involves killing a human life. That is not only a huge part of Catholic dogma but a rock solid core belief of Catholicism. The world and the church itself have become much more malleable over the past few decades. The new and improved version of Catholic dogma is redefined as " love the sinner, hate the sin" If your a devout Catholic then you believe there will be a judgement day where you will have to atone for your sins. I don't know if going to confession gets the job done. Core values to my understanding are not negotiable. That is why they call them core values. I'm trying to contemplate my moms response to someone telling her to get with the times Cathy, your views on abortion are way out of lines with the times. I only wonder what Jesus would have to say about it? I don't think Jesus Christ ever compromised on his fathers core values. The 10 commandments might just as well be changed to the 10

suggestions by the way issues are defined today.

Full disclosure, who a person chooses to marry is none of my business. One can't ignore that for many people of faith the concept of marriage being between one man and one woman has always been a core belief of their religious beliefs. I bet the founding fathers never contemplated this moral dilemma.

Whole lot of dogmatic traditions in the Catholic Church. But not exactly a paragon of morality or “core values” as an institution, right?

Personally, I take no issue in folks making their own choices, for themselves alone, in what they believe and do…themselves. It’s when they try to impose their religious views on others that is the problem. And when they use the powers of government to impose their dogmatic views, big problem.

So, as to abortion I take no issue with a woman believing that abortion is a sin and not having a procedure no matter what… but don’t tell another woman she can’t make her own decisions. Same for choices of who to love, how someone wishes to identify, etc… make your own decisions, don’t impose your religiously derived views on others.

Ethics are another matter, but religious dogma should not control others who do not share those beliefs.

The flip side of the coin, people of devout and deeply held beliefs consider abortion as the taking of a human life. Since their concerns are irrelevant the fact that in their eyes and in their deeply held beliefs nobody cares and they should just shut up and go away. When an individual equates this procedure to being the equivalent of murder those strong feelings shouldn't be ignored to the extent they are today. That might have something to do as to why the issue is still so volatile today and will continue to be so probably forever. In a rather related perspective many folks hold core beliefs that the AR 15 should be banned and are not willing to compromise even though the 2nd amendment gives that right. It is easy to say that when they are your core beliefs being ignored it becomes a horse of a different color. That might be why core beliefs are so important to the people who have them?

Just role consider one poor girl who simply cannot hve a baby for whatever reason and isn’t allowed to abort and is some trap house style spot with a hit wire sticking up here glory in agony, probably going to bleed out in that hellscape and die.

That’s what actually has and will continue to happen to some women with abortion bans. That’s super duper awesome!

[Farfromgeneva]

If Christian values were unimportant they would
Never stop at an artificial governmental border. It’s that simple. Anytime country or borders are mentioned in the same breath the Christianity is defiled and worthless in the argument.

[cradleandshoot]

Btw, there’s no way that those percentages claimed about ivy education wanting to ban things like private air conditioning and leisure travel are remotely correct. A lot of this Rasmussen survey jumped out at me as being ridiculously overstated. Sampling bias. But that’s what you get with Rasmussen.

The bias of the authors is ridiculous as well. But that’s what you get with propaganda.

That said, there’s definitely a difference in views between college educated and non college educated, and more so with post college degrees. Affluence tracks with higher education, both because affluent families afford that education, and our capitalist society rewards expertise, and scientific innovation, often only acquired through higher education. Plumbers do well too, so education comes in different ways, but predominantly through formal education.

And education typically provides a wider and deeper perspective and understanding of history, civics, philosophy as well as science…that’s undoubtedly going to lead to different views, arguably more informed views.

And affluence itself, especially inherited, but also directly earned is going to lead to less awareness of the situation of others with less. One aspect is the luxury of having a longer term perspective. To think about long term costs and benefits requires not being consumed by short term stress.

So, sure, there are differences…and those who wish to attract the support of voters with differing perspectives would do well to try to be empathetic , walk in their shoes. And communicate in ways that connect with those perspectives while translating why longer term choices matter as well…children is the most effective way to translate this.

The alternative is the populist fascist or communist authoritarian pitch, demonizing the Other, better yet multiple others, and promising immediate relief if they only have the full powers necessary. Some percentage of people are vulnerable to such pitch.

Reagan is an example of a Republican who took the empathy path, highly effectively. Clinton and Obama are Democrat examples. Biden as well, but none of those others faced a fascist opponent.

Note, Obama particularly freaked out the segment which is vulnerable. Along with social changes coming seemingly swiftly, ala gay marriage. This exacerbated a sense of alienation within their own country.

Back up the bus there for a moment. Is my memory failing me here? I thought Barack and Michelle were against gay marriage before they were for it. Those sudden bolts of enlightenment always seem to happen at just the right time. When the winds of change start shifting you need to become a windsock. If your against gay marriage today some people might smack a label on you that says your a fascist.

I was always under the impression that core values don't normally change with the tides?

So was Joe, and a whole lot of folks of goodwill. Most of us just really didn’t understand, did we? But change came fast, acceptance grew swiftly, as more and more people had family or friends who benefited. More so if you went to college recently or had kids going to college, as those but across the board eventually. But for some, such change was very unsettling, and some continue to oppose any further progress in understanding and accepting various differences from their own narrow world. And those opposed to such have mostly coalesced in the GOP…same for religious and racial bigotries.

My mom was a devout Catholic her entire life. As I have stated many times she raised us in the old school liberal tradition. Devout Catholics believe with no ambiguity that abortion involves killing a human life. That is not only a huge part of Catholic dogma but a rock solid core belief of Catholicism. The world and the church itself have become much more malleable over the past few decades. The new and improved version of Catholic dogma is redefined as " love the sinner, hate the sin" If your a devout Catholic then you believe there will be a judgement day where you will have to atone for your sins. I don't know if going to confession gets the job done. Core values to my understanding are not negotiable. That is why they call them core values. I'm trying to contemplate my moms response to someone telling her to get with the times Cathy, your views on abortion are way out of lines with the times. I only wonder what Jesus would have to say about it? I don't think Jesus Christ ever compromised on his fathers core values. The 10 commandments might just as well be changed to the 10

suggestions by the way issues are defined today.

Full disclosure, who a person chooses to marry is none of my business. One can't ignore that for many people of faith the concept of marriage being between one man and one woman has always been a core belief of their religious beliefs. I bet the founding fathers never contemplated this moral dilemma.

Whole lot of dogmatic traditions in the Catholic Church. But not exactly a paragon of morality or “core values” as an institution, right?

Personally, I take no issue in folks making their own choices, for themselves alone, in what they believe and do…themselves. It’s when they try to impose their religious views on others that is the problem. And when they use the powers of government to impose their dogmatic views, big problem.

So, as to abortion I take no issue with a woman believing that abortion is a sin and not having a procedure no matter what… but don’t tell another woman she can’t make her own decisions. Same for choices of who to love, how someone wishes to identify, etc… make your own decisions, don’t impose your religiously derived views on others.

Ethics are another matter, but religious dogma should not control others who do not share those beliefs.

The flip side of the coin, people of devout and deeply held beliefs consider abortion as the taking of a human life. Since their concerns are irrelevant the fact that in their eyes and in their deeply held beliefs nobody cares and they should just shut up and go away. When an individual equates this procedure to being the equivalent of murder those strong feelings shouldn't be ignored to the extent they are today. That might have something to do as to why the issue is still so volatile today and will continue to be so probably forever. In a rather related perspective many folks hold core beliefs that the AR 15 should be banned and are not willing to compromise even though the 2nd amendment gives that right. It is easy to say that when they are your core beliefs being ignored it becomes a horse of a different color. That might be why core beliefs are so important to the people who have them?

What happens when those folks are cool with the death penalty? Beachside the overlap is substantial?

Those cats aren’t stopping robberies or doing other things to help other citizens when they get unit eh anti abortion mix. Before they go down that path do more on the street to make people’s lives better. That’s the fundamental flaw in these folks position. They’re looking I to other people’s pockets before doing all then can themselves. That’s not being a good Christian at all. Facts.

The gun comparison fails because it’ a direct risk to others. Any risk to society from abortion is secondary or tertiary at best and requires mental gymnastics to articulate. Not the same. A better comparison might be second hand smoke in smoking bans, large soda bans in NYC or ACA rather than the gun one.

Well, abortion is a direct threat to a human life as well. That is the opinion of so many people who are against it. It is very unlikely a secondary or tertiary issue to a baby about to die. They don't have a vote in the matter. An AR-15 is no direct threat to any person when unloaded and locked in a gun safe where it belongs. I'm guessing your saying it is a direct threat because it exists in the first place.

[PizzaSnake]

Point of order a Fan. There is a large number of parents who choose homeschooling because they have lost faith in the ability of "trained professionals" to properly educate their children. It might be that they are unimpressed with the curriculum being offered to their children. It takes a huge investment in time and dedication to teach your child at home. No need to be concerned about what your child is learning at school. The downside is your childs interaction with kids their own age becomes limited

Not at all! I'm 100% supportive of homeschooling. Engaged parents are shown to do a pretty good job of it. But much of that is: it's a one on one interaction. Easier to teach one than 35, obviously.

What I'm reacting to, and what you and I have discussed before is for PUBLIC schools.

A. parents aren't trained to teach. Teachers are.

B. if we're going to let untrained parents decide what and who kids are taught: who are the lucky parents that get to make that call? Do I get to make the choice for ALL the other parents in my daughter's school?

In short, it's impossible to let parents choose how and what we teach our kids. You have to ELECT someone to do that, and/or APPOINT a rep. Which is exactly what we have been doing.

2023 RightWingers have been taught that among other enemies, teachers are their enemy. Read that out loud. Tell me you think that's right.

My head maltster's wife just left teaching after just 3 years in. Why? Piddly Denver pay coming from Colorado's right wingers, coupled with an unsafe work environment coming from left (and right, believe it or not) wingers.

A kid bit a teacher at her school last week. Know what happened? Nothing. Police weren't called. Kid wasn't expelled or suspended.

We are asking teachers to be the ONLY workers in America who aren't entitled to a safe workspace. And until we fix this? America will continue to circle the drain.

I have a friend whose wife chose to home school their kid for a more troublesome reason. Their son was being bullied and beat up at school. Repeated efforts to stop it only made matters worse. I don't know if thate n is isolated but I know it left both parents very frustrated with their sons school.

He clearly needed an AR-15…

[Farfromgeneva]

Btw, there’s no way that those percentages claimed about ivy education wanting to ban things like private air conditioning and leisure travel are remotely correct. A lot of this Rasmussen survey jumped out at me as being ridiculously overstated. Sampling bias. But that’s what you get with Rasmussen.

The bias of the authors is ridiculous as well. But that’s what you get with propaganda.

That said, there’s definitely a difference in views between college educated and non college educated, and more so with post college degrees. Affluence tracks with higher education, both because affluent families afford that education, and our capitalist society rewards expertise, and scientific innovation, often only acquired through higher education. Plumbers do well too, so education comes in different ways, but predominantly through formal education.

And education typically provides a wider and deeper perspective and understanding of history, civics, philosophy as well as science…that’s undoubtedly going to lead to different views, arguably more informed views.

And affluence itself, especially inherited, but also directly earned is going to lead to less awareness of the situation of others with less. One aspect is the luxury of having a longer term perspective. To think about long term costs and benefits requires not being consumed by short term stress.

So, sure, there are differences…and those who wish to attract the support of voters with differing perspectives would do well to try to be empathetic , walk in their shoes. And communicate in ways that connect with those perspectives while translating why longer term choices matter as well…children is the most effective way to translate this.

The alternative is the populist fascist or communist authoritarian pitch, demonizing the Other, better yet multiple others, and promising immediate relief if they only have the full powers necessary. Some percentage of people are vulnerable to such pitch.

Reagan is an example of a Republican who took the empathy path, highly effectively. Clinton and Obama are Democrat examples. Biden as well, but none of those others faced a fascist opponent.

Note, Obama particularly freaked out the segment which is vulnerable. Along with social changes coming seemingly swiftly, ala gay marriage. This exacerbated a sense of alienation within their own country.

Back up the bus there for a moment. Is my memory failing me here? I thought Barack and Michelle were against gay marriage before they were for it. Those sudden bolts of enlightenment always seem to happen at just the right time. When the winds of change start shifting you need to become a windsock. If your against gay marriage today some people might smack a label on you that says your a fascist.

I was always under the impression that core values don't normally change with the tides?

So was Joe, and a whole lot of folks of goodwill. Most of us just really didn’t understand, did we? But change came fast, acceptance grew swiftly, as more and more people had family or friends who benefited. More so if you went to college recently or had kids going to college, as those but across the board eventually. But for some, such change was very unsettling, and some continue to oppose any further progress in understanding and accepting various differences from their own narrow world. And those opposed to such have mostly coalesced in the GOP…same for religious and racial bigotries.

My mom was a devout Catholic her entire life. As I have stated many times she raised us in the old school liberal tradition. Devout Catholics believe with no ambiguity that abortion involves killing a human life. That is not only a huge part of Catholic dogma but a rock solid core belief of Catholicism. The world and the church itself have become much more malleable over the past few decades. The new and improved version of Catholic dogma is redefined as " love the sinner, hate the sin" If your a devout Catholic then you believe there will be a judgement day where you will have to atone for your sins. I don't know if going to confession gets the job done. Core values to my understanding are not negotiable. That is why they call them core values. I'm trying to contemplate my moms response to someone telling her to get with the times Cathy, your views on abortion are way out of lines with the times. I only wonder what Jesus would have to say about it? I don't think Jesus Christ ever compromised on his fathers core values. The 10 commandments might just as well be changed to the 10

suggestions by the way issues are defined today.

Full disclosure, who a person chooses to marry is none of my business. One can't ignore that for many people of faith the concept of marriage being between one man and one woman has always been a core belief of their religious beliefs. I bet the founding fathers never contemplated this moral dilemma.

Whole lot of dogmatic traditions in the Catholic Church. But not exactly a paragon of morality or “core values” as an institution, right?

Personally, I take no issue in folks making their own choices, for themselves alone, in what they believe and do…themselves. It’s when they try to impose their religious views on others that is the problem. And when they use the powers of government to impose their dogmatic views, big problem.

So, as to abortion I take no issue with a woman believing that abortion is a sin and not having a procedure no matter what… but don’t tell another woman she can’t make her own decisions. Same for choices of who to love, how someone wishes to identify, etc… make your own decisions, don’t impose your religiously derived views on others.

Ethics are another matter, but religious dogma should not control others who do not share those beliefs.

The flip side of the coin, people of devout and deeply held beliefs consider abortion as the taking of a human life. Since their concerns are irrelevant the fact that in their eyes and in their deeply held beliefs nobody cares and they should just shut up and go away. When an individual equates this procedure to being the equivalent of murder those strong feelings shouldn't be ignored to the extent they are today. That might have something to do as to why the issue is still so volatile today and will continue to be so probably forever. In a rather related perspective many folks hold core beliefs that the AR 15 should be banned and are not willing to compromise even though the 2nd amendment gives that right. It is easy to say that when they are your core beliefs being ignored it becomes a horse of a different color. That might be why core beliefs are so important to the people who have them?

What happens when those folks are cool with the death penalty? Beachside the overlap is substantial?

Those cats aren’t stopping robberies or doing other things to help other citizens when they get unit eh anti abortion mix. Before they go down that path do more on the street to make people’s lives better. That’s the fundamental flaw in these folks position. They’re looking I to other people’s pockets before doing all then can themselves. That’s not being a good Christian at all. Facts.

The gun comparison fails because it’ a direct risk to others. Any risk to society from abortion is secondary or tertiary at best and requires mental gymnastics to articulate. Not the same. A better comparison might be second hand smoke in smoking bans, large soda bans in NYC or ACA rather than the gun one.

Well, abortion is a direct threat to a human life as well. That is the opinion of so many people who are against it. It is very unlikely a secondary or tertiary issue to a baby about to die. They don't have a vote in the matter. An AR-15 is no direct threat to any person when unloaded and locked in a gun safe where it belongs. I'm guessing your saying it is a direct threat because it exists in the first place.

Not yours or your family like a stray (or intended) bullet is. Not even close to comparable. One can take you or your wife’s life. There other cannot. How do you not see what I’m saying with respect to “direct” and somehow think it means something different? If it’s willful then that’s bad faith. If you don’t understand what I mean by direct I can further elaborate but how do you misunderstand or twist that the way you did? It takes bad faith effort or some kind of extreme lack of critical reading.

You speak for one innocent person you speak for then all and the hypocrisy of so many anti abortion folks when it comes to there views and behavior towards other classes who need help is atrocious and defies good taste or logic.

A child who gets shot can’t vote either. That comment is worthless in this context about they don’t have a vote. You don’t really care about the children when making the anti abortion argument. I see through it every time. The “it’s all about the children” lie as folks pull forward future generations resources on a duly basis. Laughable.

[Farfromgeneva]

Btw, there’s no way that those percentages claimed about ivy education wanting to ban things like private air conditioning and leisure travel are remotely correct. A lot of this Rasmussen survey jumped out at me as being ridiculously overstated. Sampling bias. But that’s what you get with Rasmussen.

The bias of the authors is ridiculous as well. But that’s what you get with propaganda.

That said, there’s definitely a difference in views between college educated and non college educated, and more so with post college degrees. Affluence tracks with higher education, both because affluent families afford that education, and our capitalist society rewards expertise, and scientific innovation, often only acquired through higher education. Plumbers do well too, so education comes in different ways, but predominantly through formal education.

And education typically provides a wider and deeper perspective and understanding of history, civics, philosophy as well as science…that’s undoubtedly going to lead to different views, arguably more informed views.

And affluence itself, especially inherited, but also directly earned is going to lead to less awareness of the situation of others with less. One aspect is the luxury of having a longer term perspective. To think about long term costs and benefits requires not being consumed by short term stress.

So, sure, there are differences…and those who wish to attract the support of voters with differing perspectives would do well to try to be empathetic , walk in their shoes. And communicate in ways that connect with those perspectives while translating why longer term choices matter as well…children is the most effective way to translate this.

The alternative is the populist fascist or communist authoritarian pitch, demonizing the Other, better yet multiple others, and promising immediate relief if they only have the full powers necessary. Some percentage of people are vulnerable to such pitch.

Reagan is an example of a Republican who took the empathy path, highly effectively. Clinton and Obama are Democrat examples. Biden as well, but none of those others faced a fascist opponent.

Note, Obama particularly freaked out the segment which is vulnerable. Along with social changes coming seemingly swiftly, ala gay marriage. This exacerbated a sense of alienation within their own country.

Back up the bus there for a moment. Is my memory failing me here? I thought Barack and Michelle were against gay marriage before they were for it. Those sudden bolts of enlightenment always seem to happen at just the right time. When the winds of change start shifting you need to become a windsock. If your against gay marriage today some people might smack a label on you that says your a fascist.

I was always under the impression that core values don't normally change with the tides?

So was Joe, and a whole lot of folks of goodwill. Most of us just really didn’t understand, did we? But change came fast, acceptance grew swiftly, as more and more people had family or friends who benefited. More so if you went to college recently or had kids going to college, as those but across the board eventually. But for some, such change was very unsettling, and some continue to oppose any further progress in understanding and accepting various differences from their own narrow world. And those opposed to such have mostly coalesced in the GOP…same for religious and racial bigotries.

My mom was a devout Catholic her entire life. As I have stated many times she raised us in the old school liberal tradition. Devout Catholics believe with no ambiguity that abortion involves killing a human life. That is not only a huge part of Catholic dogma but a rock solid core belief of Catholicism. The world and the church itself have become much more malleable over the past few decades. The new and improved version of Catholic dogma is redefined as " love the sinner, hate the sin" If your a devout Catholic then you believe there will be a judgement day where you will have to atone for your sins. I don't know if going to confession gets the job done. Core values to my understanding are not negotiable. That is why they call them core values. I'm trying to contemplate my moms response to someone telling her to get with the times Cathy, your views on abortion are way out of lines with the times. I only wonder what Jesus would have to say about it? I don't think Jesus Christ ever compromised on his fathers core values. The 10 commandments might just as well be changed to the 10

suggestions by the way issues are defined today.

Full disclosure, who a person chooses to marry is none of my business. One can't ignore that for many people of faith the concept of marriage being between one man and one woman has always been a core belief of their religious beliefs. I bet the founding fathers never contemplated this moral dilemma.

Whole lot of dogmatic traditions in the Catholic Church. But not exactly a paragon of morality or “core values” as an institution, right?

Personally, I take no issue in folks making their own choices, for themselves alone, in what they believe and do…themselves. It’s when they try to impose their religious views on others that is the problem. And when they use the powers of government to impose their dogmatic views, big problem.

So, as to abortion I take no issue with a woman believing that abortion is a sin and not having a procedure no matter what… but don’t tell another woman she can’t make her own decisions. Same for choices of who to love, how someone wishes to identify, etc… make your own decisions, don’t impose your religiously derived views on others.

Ethics are another matter, but religious dogma should not control others who do not share those beliefs.

The flip side of the coin, people of devout and deeply held beliefs consider abortion as the taking of a human life. Since their concerns are irrelevant the fact that in their eyes and in their deeply held beliefs nobody cares and they should just shut up and go away. When an individual equates this procedure to being the equivalent of murder those strong feelings shouldn't be ignored to the extent they are today. That might have something to do as to why the issue is still so volatile today and will continue to be so probably forever. In a rather related perspective many folks hold core beliefs that the AR 15 should be banned and are not willing to compromise even though the 2nd amendment gives that right. It is easy to say that when they are your core beliefs being ignored it becomes a horse of a different color. That might be why core beliefs are so important to the people who have them?

What happens when those folks are cool with the death penalty? Beachside the overlap is substantial?

Those cats aren’t stopping robberies or doing other things to help other citizens when they get unit eh anti abortion mix. Before they go down that path do more on the street to make people’s lives better. That’s the fundamental flaw in these folks position. They’re looking I to other people’s pockets before doing all then can themselves. That’s not being a good Christian at all. Facts.

The gun comparison fails because it’ a direct risk to others. Any risk to society from abortion is secondary or tertiary at best and requires mental gymnastics to articulate. Not the same. A better comparison might be second hand smoke in smoking bans, large soda bans in NYC or ACA rather than the gun one.

Well, abortion is a direct threat to a human life as well. That is the opinion of so many people who are against it. It is very unlikely a secondary or tertiary issue to a baby about to die. They don't have a vote in the matter. An AR-15 is no direct threat to any person when unloaded and locked in a gun safe where it belongs. I'm guessing your saying it is a direct threat because it exists in the first place.

What about the women who die from
Pregnancies? You ignored that compeltely. Don’t care about them at all?

[Farfromgeneva]

Point of order a Fan. There is a large number of parents who choose homeschooling because they have lost faith in the ability of "trained professionals" to properly educate their children. It might be that they are unimpressed with the curriculum being offered to their children. It takes a huge investment in time and dedication to teach your child at home. No need to be concerned about what your child is learning at school. The downside is your childs interaction with kids their own age becomes limited

Not at all! I'm 100% supportive of homeschooling. Engaged parents are shown to do a pretty good job of it. But much of that is: it's a one on one interaction. Easier to teach one than 35, obviously.

What I'm reacting to, and what you and I have discussed before is for PUBLIC schools.

A. parents aren't trained to teach. Teachers are.

B. if we're going to let untrained parents decide what and who kids are taught: who are the lucky parents that get to make that call? Do I get to make the choice for ALL the other parents in my daughter's school?

In short, it's impossible to let parents choose how and what we teach our kids. You have to ELECT someone to do that, and/or APPOINT a rep. Which is exactly what we have been doing.

2023 RightWingers have been taught that among other enemies, teachers are their enemy. Read that out loud. Tell me you think that's right.

My head maltster's wife just left teaching after just 3 years in. Why? Piddly Denver pay coming from Colorado's right wingers, coupled with an unsafe work environment coming from left (and right, believe it or not) wingers.

A kid bit a teacher at her school last week. Know what happened? Nothing. Police weren't called. Kid wasn't expelled or suspended.

We are asking teachers to be the ONLY workers in America who aren't entitled to a safe workspace. And until we fix this? America will continue to circle the drain.

I have a friend whose wife chose to home school their kid for a more troublesome reason. Their son was being bullied and beat up at school. Repeated efforts to stop it only made matters worse. I don't know if thate n is isolated but I know it left both parents very frustrated with their sons school.

He clearly needed an AR-15…

Ninja stars work too

https://youtu.be/ExO8wWUosZ4?si=XAvuFHxXVn-8dciI

[PizzaSnake]

Point of order a Fan. There is a large number of parents who choose homeschooling because they have lost faith in the ability of "trained professionals" to properly educate their children. It might be that they are unimpressed with the curriculum being offered to their children. It takes a huge investment in time and dedication to teach your child at home. No need to be concerned about what your child is learning at school. The downside is your childs interaction with kids their own age becomes limited

Not at all! I'm 100% supportive of homeschooling. Engaged parents are shown to do a pretty good job of it. But much of that is: it's a one on one interaction. Easier to teach one than 35, obviously.

What I'm reacting to, and what you and I have discussed before is for PUBLIC schools.

A. parents aren't trained to teach. Teachers are.

B. if we're going to let untrained parents decide what and who kids are taught: who are the lucky parents that get to make that call? Do I get to make the choice for ALL the other parents in my daughter's school?

In short, it's impossible to let parents choose how and what we teach our kids. You have to ELECT someone to do that, and/or APPOINT a rep. Which is exactly what we have been doing.

2023 RightWingers have been taught that among other enemies, teachers are their enemy. Read that out loud. Tell me you think that's right.

My head maltster's wife just left teaching after just 3 years in. Why? Piddly Denver pay coming from Colorado's right wingers, coupled with an unsafe work environment coming from left (and right, believe it or not) wingers.

A kid bit a teacher at her school last week. Know what happened? Nothing. Police weren't called. Kid wasn't expelled or suspended.

We are asking teachers to be the ONLY workers in America who aren't entitled to a safe workspace. And until we fix this? America will continue to circle the drain.

I have a friend whose wife chose to home school their kid for a more troublesome reason. Their son was being bullied and beat up at school. Repeated efforts to stop it only made matters worse. I don't know if thate n is isolated but I know it left both parents very frustrated with their sons school.

He clearly needed an AR-15…

Ninja stars work too

https://youtu.be/ExO8wWUosZ4?si=XAvuFHxXVn-8dciI

[old salt]

The funniest and saddest part about the people who eat this kind of stuff up? Their current solution is to vote in a silver-spoon Ivy League New York City "Billionaire." The mainstream media they consume does its best to suggest he's looking out for the workers of America while these "coastal elites" are the biggest bogeyman.

He only got into an Ivy for a MBA. He didn't get into an Ivy as an undergrad. His undergrad school is now in the PL.