Team’s budget vs average attendance

[Chousnake]

One of the biggest issues impacting attendance is the weather associated with the lax season, particularly in the Northeast. The season starts in early to mid February and the weather is just horrible. It doesn't get much better in March and April is spotty. Very few people are going to watch a game in 30 degree windy weather or, worse yet, 40 degrees and rain.

Syracuse leads the nation in attendance because they play indoors. Maryland and Virginia are next and the weather there in March and April is much better than Ithaca or South Bend. I attend some Cornell games, and the attendance on a reasonably nice day in April is in the thousands as compared to 1-200 (family and friends) in February.

Throw in that some schools are not in high population areas where walk up crowds from the general population are not likely and you get the answer.

I would bet that the attendance for games in April/May are 2-3X higher than February/March almost across the board.

[Farfromgeneva]

One of the biggest issues impacting attendance is the weather associated with the lax season, particularly in the Northeast. The season starts in early to mid February and the weather is just horrible. It doesn't get much better in March and April is spotty. Very few people are going to watch a game in 30 degree windy weather or, worse yet, 40 degrees and rain.

Syracuse leads the nation in attendance because they play indoors. Maryland and Virginia are next and the weather there in March and April is much better than Ithaca or South Bend. I attend some Cornell games, and the attendance on a reasonably nice day in April is in the thousands as compared to 1-200 (family and friends) in February.

Throw in that some schools are not in high population areas where walk up crowds from the general population are not likely and you get the answer.

I would bet that the attendance for games in April/May are 2-3X higher than February/March almost across the board.

Sure and Hobart-Cuse or Cornell still pals a crowd in Geneva and if it’s warm in April/May it’s closer to 5k than 1k. But those early games are restful zero against Canisius and Colgate in snow.

[The Orfling]

One of the biggest issues impacting attendance is the weather associated with the lax season, particularly in the Northeast. The season starts in early to mid February and the weather is just horrible. It doesn't get much better in March and April is spotty. Very few people are going to watch a game in 30 degree windy weather or, worse yet, 40 degrees and rain.

Syracuse leads the nation in attendance because they play indoors. Maryland and Virginia are next and the weather there in March and April is much better than Ithaca or South Bend. I attend some Cornell games, and the attendance on a reasonably nice day in April is in the thousands as compared to 1-200 (family and friends) in February.

Throw in that some schools are not in high population areas where walk up crowds from the general population are not likely and you get the answer.

I would bet that the attendance for games in April/May are 2-3X higher than February/March almost across the board.

All good points -- and the location of the lax venue on campus matters also. Yale's athletic complex (out by the Yale Bowl) is about 1.5 miles away from the center of campus. They've got a good shuttle bus system but you won't get a student walk-up crowd from hearing crowd noise. Also, the number of undergrads differs pretty substantially even within leagues (Yale's got around 6500 undergrads, Cornell 14,000 plus; in the Big 10 Hopkins has 5200 undergrads, Maryland has 30,000, Penn State has 42,000).

[Farfromgeneva]

One of the biggest issues impacting attendance is the weather associated with the lax season, particularly in the Northeast. The season starts in early to mid February and the weather is just horrible. It doesn't get much better in March and April is spotty. Very few people are going to watch a game in 30 degree windy weather or, worse yet, 40 degrees and rain.

Syracuse leads the nation in attendance because they play indoors. Maryland and Virginia are next and the weather there in March and April is much better than Ithaca or South Bend. I attend some Cornell games, and the attendance on a reasonably nice day in April is in the thousands as compared to 1-200 (family and friends) in February.

Throw in that some schools are not in high population areas where walk up crowds from the general population are not likely and you get the answer.

I would bet that the attendance for games in April/May are 2-3X higher than February/March almost across the board.

All good points -- and the location of the lax venue on campus matters also. Yale's athletic complex (out by the Yale Bowl) is about 1.5 miles away from the center of campus. They've got a good shuttle bus system but you won't get a student walk-up crowd from hearing crowd noise. Also, the number of undergrads differs pretty substantially even within leagues (Yale's got around 6500 undergrads, Cornell 14,000 plus; in the Big 10 Hopkins has 5200 undergrads, Maryland has 30,000, Penn State has 42,000).

42,000… assuming a fairly even split imagine the talent pool to swim in for a full red blooded college aged boy!

[The Orfling]

One of the biggest issues impacting attendance is the weather associated with the lax season, particularly in the Northeast. The season starts in early to mid February and the weather is just horrible. It doesn't get much better in March and April is spotty. Very few people are going to watch a game in 30 degree windy weather or, worse yet, 40 degrees and rain.

Syracuse leads the nation in attendance because they play indoors. Maryland and Virginia are next and the weather there in March and April is much better than Ithaca or South Bend. I attend some Cornell games, and the attendance on a reasonably nice day in April is in the thousands as compared to 1-200 (family and friends) in February.

Throw in that some schools are not in high population areas where walk up crowds from the general population are not likely and you get the answer.

I would bet that the attendance for games in April/May are 2-3X higher than February/March almost across the board.

All good points -- and the location of the lax venue on campus matters also. Yale's athletic complex (out by the Yale Bowl) is about 1.5 miles away from the center of campus. They've got a good shuttle bus system but you won't get a student walk-up crowd from hearing crowd noise. Also, the number of undergrads differs pretty substantially even within leagues (Yale's got around 6500 undergrads, Cornell 14,000 plus; in the Big 10 Hopkins has 5200 undergrads, Maryland has 30,000, Penn State has 42,000).

42,000… assuming a fairly even split imagine the talent pool to swim in for a full red blooded college aged boy!

Indeed. And now with women making up the majority of undergraduates nationally, how long before we see a glut of red blooded college boys just seeking their "Mister" degree?

[Farfromgeneva]

One of the biggest issues impacting attendance is the weather associated with the lax season, particularly in the Northeast. The season starts in early to mid February and the weather is just horrible. It doesn't get much better in March and April is spotty. Very few people are going to watch a game in 30 degree windy weather or, worse yet, 40 degrees and rain.

Syracuse leads the nation in attendance because they play indoors. Maryland and Virginia are next and the weather there in March and April is much better than Ithaca or South Bend. I attend some Cornell games, and the attendance on a reasonably nice day in April is in the thousands as compared to 1-200 (family and friends) in February.

Throw in that some schools are not in high population areas where walk up crowds from the general population are not likely and you get the answer.

I would bet that the attendance for games in April/May are 2-3X higher than February/March almost across the board.

All good points -- and the location of the lax venue on campus matters also. Yale's athletic complex (out by the Yale Bowl) is about 1.5 miles away from the center of campus. They've got a good shuttle bus system but you won't get a student walk-up crowd from hearing crowd noise. Also, the number of undergrads differs pretty substantially even within leagues (Yale's got around 6500 undergrads, Cornell 14,000 plus; in the Big 10 Hopkins has 5200 undergrads, Maryland has 30,000, Penn State has 42,000).

42,000… assuming a fairly even split imagine the talent pool to swim in for a full red blooded college aged boy!

Indeed. And now with women making up the majority of undergraduates nationally, how long before we see a glut of red blooded college boys just seeking their "Mister" degree?

I see skies of blue, red roses too….but I think to myself, what a wonderful world.

[CharlesS]

Lacrosse is wildly popular and growing all over the country, especially around metropolitan areas (suburbs). The college lacrosse attendance issue is not correlating due to playing in incredibly cold weather and when that finally warms up, it is then competing with youth and club lacrosse. Moms, dads and kids would most certainly attend big college lacrosse games but they are not going to miss their sons games for the local college game.

Everybody plays soccer in this country, because they can and its affordable but even that sport does not have good college attendance to show for it. Colleges should consider having more early evening games and occassional Sunday games with lower ticket prices.

Look at the data. Actually had a negative growth rate most recently. Ages 6-12, was 0.4% in 08, then 1.0% in 2019 and 0.7% in 2022. Soccer is 20x+ lacrosse in youth participation. It’s interesting to see having grown up in upstate NY and lived in DC and NYC in my 20s and now in Atlanta which is probably the most metropolitan and “northern” cultural city in the south (outside retiree pockets in S FL). I wish Georgia could have lacrosse development like it evolved in NYS in the 80s but there’s zero chance the growth areas will look anything like traditional pockets going forward. The adults running it in new areas have wildly different motivations than prior generations. ($)

https://projectplay.org/state-of-play-2 ... ion-trends

Pay to Play is the way now for the supposed better lacrosse. Most areas Rec is only for under 11 or non existent. The numbers and growth have no way to go but down . I dont see High School growing at this time. I think the growth in the sport is over and we are plateauing now if not on a slight downward track.
Lot of reasons for this, no national leadership that matters, takeover of so many holdbacks playing down didnt help grow it, top clubs all about the money, etc

[xxxxxxx]

I have been hearing about the explosive growth of lacrosse for thirty years, and while it has grown at the youth and high school level attendance is still incredibly low for college lacrosse. As many have said the weather kills it in the northeast, I always say you know the season is almost over when the weather gets nice.

The other harsh reality for the loyalist is that it is and probably will always be a niche sport that general college fans don't care about. If you average out the attendance of the teams listed it is less than 2,000 with many under 1,000. Here in Philly most high school football teams have higher attendance than Penn Villanova and Drexel.

Unless they move the sport to the fall, which is not going to happen, we can expect no real attendance growth any time soon. My concern is how long in the new world of College Athletics before administrators decide they can't afford all the non or very low-revenue sports? I could see schools dropping most sports to club level keeping football and basketball and some Title 9 women's teams. Other than the 45 lacrosse players or 30 soccer players experience, what do the schools get for the million dollars spent? I fear for the worst in what is now the wild west of college sports.

[Antonio114]

One of the biggest issues impacting attendance is the weather associated with the lax season, particularly in the Northeast. The season starts in early to mid February and the weather is just horrible. It doesn't get much better in March and April is spotty. Very few people are going to watch a game in 30 degree windy weather or, worse yet, 40 degrees and rain.

Syracuse leads the nation in attendance because they play indoors. Maryland and Virginia are next and the weather there in March and April is much better than Ithaca or South Bend. I attend some Cornell games, and the attendance on a reasonably nice day in April is in the thousands as compared to 1-200 (family and friends) in February.

Throw in that some schools are not in high population areas where walk up crowds from the general population are not likely and you get the answer.

I would bet that the attendance for games in April/May are 2-3X higher than February/March almost across the board.

The Cornell Michigan playoff game on May 14th had 2,600 in attendance. That is still 1,600 less than the average attendance of a Cuse game. There are more factors than just the indoor location that separate Cuse from the pack. Even a crucial game in May and Cornell's numbers are not really close.

[Chousnake]

One of the biggest issues impacting attendance is the weather associated with the lax season, particularly in the Northeast. The season starts in early to mid February and the weather is just horrible. It doesn't get much better in March and April is spotty. Very few people are going to watch a game in 30 degree windy weather or, worse yet, 40 degrees and rain.

Syracuse leads the nation in attendance because they play indoors. Maryland and Virginia are next and the weather there in March and April is much better than Ithaca or South Bend. I attend some Cornell games, and the attendance on a reasonably nice day in April is in the thousands as compared to 1-200 (family and friends) in February.

Throw in that some schools are not in high population areas where walk up crowds from the general population are not likely and you get the answer.

I would bet that the attendance for games in April/May are 2-3X higher than February/March almost across the board.

The Cornell Michigan playoff game on May 14th had 2,600 in attendance. That is still 1,600 less than the average attendance of a Cuse game. There are more factors than just the indoor location that separate Cuse from the pack. Even a crucial game in May and Cornell's numbers are not really close.

Yes. Syracuse has almost twice as many students and Syracuse has 5 times the population of Ithaca. There are other factors. The attendance for Cornell's early season games was 200-500 and by April it was 2000+ . If Cornell played every game in the same climate, it would average 2-2500 per game, which was exactly my point. If Syracuse played outdoors in February, it is NOT drawing 4,000 fans.

[Farfromgeneva]

Lacrosse is wildly popular and growing all over the country, especially around metropolitan areas (suburbs). The college lacrosse attendance issue is not correlating due to playing in incredibly cold weather and when that finally warms up, it is then competing with youth and club lacrosse. Moms, dads and kids would most certainly attend big college lacrosse games but they are not going to miss their sons games for the local college game.

Everybody plays soccer in this country, because they can and its affordable but even that sport does not have good college attendance to show for it. Colleges should consider having more early evening games and occassional Sunday games with lower ticket prices.

Look at the data. Actually had a negative growth rate most recently. Ages 6-12, was 0.4% in 08, then 1.0% in 2019 and 0.7% in 2022. Soccer is 20x+ lacrosse in youth participation. It’s interesting to see having grown up in upstate NY and lived in DC and NYC in my 20s and now in Atlanta which is probably the most metropolitan and “northern” cultural city in the south (outside retiree pockets in S FL). I wish Georgia could have lacrosse development like it evolved in NYS in the 80s but there’s zero chance the growth areas will look anything like traditional pockets going forward. The adults running it in new areas have wildly different motivations than prior generations. ($)

https://projectplay.org/state-of-play-2 ... ion-trends

Pay to Play is the way now for the supposed better lacrosse. Most areas Rec is only for under 11 or non existent. The numbers and growth have no way to go but down . I dont see High School growing at this time. I think the growth in the sport is over and we are plateauing now if not on a slight downward track.
Lot of reasons for this, no national leadership that matters, takeover of so many holdbacks playing down didnt help grow it, top clubs all about the money, etc

I agree and lament it because you can’t get nascent areas off the ground. And you’d be surprised how much of it is available public land. Even in a wildly not dense city like Atlanta .

[Farfromgeneva]

I have been hearing about the explosive growth of lacrosse for thirty years, and while it has grown at the youth and high school level attendance is still incredibly low for college lacrosse. As many have said the weather kills it in the northeast, I always say you know the season is almost over when the weather gets nice.

The other harsh reality for the loyalist is that it is and probably will always be a niche sport that general college fans don't care about. If you average out the attendance of the teams listed it is less than 2,000 with many under 1,000. Here in Philly most high school football teams have higher attendance than Penn Villanova and Drexel.

Unless they move the sport to the fall, which is not going to happen, we can expect no real attendance growth any time soon. My concern is how long in the new world of College Athletics before administrators decide they can't afford all the non or very low-revenue sports? I could see schools dropping most sports to club level keeping football and basketball and some Title 9 women's teams. Other than the 45 lacrosse players or 30 soccer players experience, what do the schools get for the million dollars spent? I fear for the worst in what is now the wild west of college sports.

$1mm is $20k/kid. Having been treasurer of a student body years ago and knowing what fees are spent on that’s not a huge number. At Hobart it’s like, like
1.5% of the total operating budget at a college that embodies lacrosse.

[Antonio114]

One of the biggest issues impacting attendance is the weather associated with the lax season, particularly in the Northeast. The season starts in early to mid February and the weather is just horrible. It doesn't get much better in March and April is spotty. Very few people are going to watch a game in 30 degree windy weather or, worse yet, 40 degrees and rain.

Syracuse leads the nation in attendance because they play indoors. Maryland and Virginia are next and the weather there in March and April is much better than Ithaca or South Bend. I attend some Cornell games, and the attendance on a reasonably nice day in April is in the thousands as compared to 1-200 (family and friends) in February.

Throw in that some schools are not in high population areas where walk up crowds from the general population are not likely and you get the answer.

I would bet that the attendance for games in April/May are 2-3X higher than February/March almost across the board.

The Cornell Michigan playoff game on May 14th had 2,600 in attendance. That is still 1,600 less than the average attendance of a Cuse game. There are more factors than just the indoor location that separate Cuse from the pack. Even a crucial game in May and Cornell's numbers are not really close.

Yes. Syracuse has almost twice as many students and Syracuse has 5 times the population of Ithaca. There are other factors. The attendance for Cornell's early season games was 200-500 and by April it was 2000+ . If Cornell played every game in the same climate, it would average 2-2500 per game, which was exactly my point. If Syracuse played outdoors in February, it is NOT drawing 4,000 fans.

In the case of Cornell those are definite factors. But overall I still think the main factor that separates Cuse from others is a large loyal fanbase, not the indoor location. It is a factor yes, but even the other highest attended programs don't start suddenly blowing us out of the water with attendance when the weather gets nice. In 2019 with the Dome under renovation, Cuse played Duke at a suburban high school field on a cold day in March. 4,800 in attendance. That loyalty comes from other factors you mention like a high walk-up population in close proximity, and others like the Cuse budget, as well as the local sports media consistently giving lacrosse serious attention. Indoor location gives February a big boost, but we still out attend nearly everyone in April too.

[Farfromgeneva]

One of the biggest issues impacting attendance is the weather associated with the lax season, particularly in the Northeast. The season starts in early to mid February and the weather is just horrible. It doesn't get much better in March and April is spotty. Very few people are going to watch a game in 30 degree windy weather or, worse yet, 40 degrees and rain.

Syracuse leads the nation in attendance because they play indoors. Maryland and Virginia are next and the weather there in March and April is much better than Ithaca or South Bend. I attend some Cornell games, and the attendance on a reasonably nice day in April is in the thousands as compared to 1-200 (family and friends) in February.

Throw in that some schools are not in high population areas where walk up crowds from the general population are not likely and you get the answer.

I would bet that the attendance for games in April/May are 2-3X higher than February/March almost across the board.

The Cornell Michigan playoff game on May 14th had 2,600 in attendance. That is still 1,600 less than the average attendance of a Cuse game. There are more factors than just the indoor location that separate Cuse from the pack. Even a crucial game in May and Cornell's numbers are not really close.

Yes. Syracuse has almost twice as many students and Syracuse has 5 times the population of Ithaca. There are other factors. The attendance for Cornell's early season games was 200-500 and by April it was 2000+ . If Cornell played every game in the same climate, it would average 2-2500 per game, which was exactly my point. If Syracuse played outdoors in February, it is NOT drawing 4,000 fans.

In the case of Cornell those are definite factors. But overall I still think the main factor that separates Cuse from others is a large loyal fanbase, not the indoor location. It is a factor yes, but even the other highest attended programs don't start suddenly blowing us out of the water with attendance when the weather gets nice. In 2019 with the Dome under renovation, Cuse played Duke at a suburban high school field on a cold day in March. 4,800 in attendance. That loyalty comes from other factors you mention like a high walk-up population in close proximity, and others like the Cuse budget, as well as the local sports media consistently giving lacrosse serious attention. Indoor location gives February a big boost, but we still out attend nearly everyone in April too.

You can disagree but the Syracuse/Cornell/Hobart tri finger lake region all has deep and loyal fan bases unlike most. Cue the hop fan claiming titles in 1817 against a Native American girls club to bring up Balt. Still not the same.

[xxxxxxx]

I have been hearing about the explosive growth of lacrosse for thirty years, and while it has grown at the youth and high school level attendance is still incredibly low for college lacrosse. As many have said the weather kills it in the northeast, I always say you know the season is almost over when the weather gets nice.

The other harsh reality for the loyalist is that it is and probably will always be a niche sport that general college fans don't care about. If you average out the attendance of the teams listed it is less than 2,000 with many under 1,000. Here in Philly most high school football teams have higher attendance than Penn Villanova and Drexel.

Unless they move the sport to the fall, which is not going to happen, we can expect no real attendance growth any time soon. My concern is how long in the new world of College Athletics before administrators decide they can't afford all the non or very low-revenue sports? I could see schools dropping most sports to club level keeping football and basketball and some Title 9 women's teams. Other than the 45 lacrosse players or 30 soccer players experience, what do the schools get for the million dollars spent? I fear for the worst in what is now the wild west of college sports.

$1mm is $20k/kid. Having been treasurer of a student body years ago and knowing what fees are spent on that’s not a huge number. At Hobart it’s like, like
1.5% of the total operating budget at a college that embodies lacrosse.

I'm not great at math but $20 per kid for a $1 million budget is 50,000 kids, most of these schools are less than 15,000, and many less than 10,000. Plus with all the sports it adds up quickly. I'm not saying I like it but these athletic budgets are under tremendous pressure and many in the ivory towers would love to see sports gone. I worry that one day soon they will get their wish. I know for sure the Ivys have leaders that cringe at the thought of treasured admittance slots going to jocks.

[Farfromgeneva]

I have been hearing about the explosive growth of lacrosse for thirty years, and while it has grown at the youth and high school level attendance is still incredibly low for college lacrosse. As many have said the weather kills it in the northeast, I always say you know the season is almost over when the weather gets nice.

The other harsh reality for the loyalist is that it is and probably will always be a niche sport that general college fans don't care about. If you average out the attendance of the teams listed it is less than 2,000 with many under 1,000. Here in Philly most high school football teams have higher attendance than Penn Villanova and Drexel.

Unless they move the sport to the fall, which is not going to happen, we can expect no real attendance growth any time soon. My concern is how long in the new world of College Athletics before administrators decide they can't afford all the non or very low-revenue sports? I could see schools dropping most sports to club level keeping football and basketball and some Title 9 women's teams. Other than the 45 lacrosse players or 30 soccer players experience, what do the schools get for the million dollars spent? I fear for the worst in what is now the wild west of college sports.

$1mm is $20k/kid. Having been treasurer of a student body years ago and knowing what fees are spent on that’s not a huge number. At Hobart it’s like, like
1.5% of the total operating budget at a college that embodies lacrosse.

I'm not great at math but $20 per kid for a $1 million budget is 50,000 kids, most of these schools are less than 15,000, and many less than 10,000. Plus with all the sports it adds up quickly. I'm not saying I like it but these athletic budgets are under tremendous pressure and many in the ivory towers would love to see sports gone. I worry that one day soon they will get their wish. I know for sure the Ivys have leaders that cringe at the thought of treasured admittance slots going to jocks.

You missed the “K” though I understand if you use M and MM for Thousand and and million as I normally do. At Hobart’s we’d spend between $3,500-5,000 per kid on activities and events off the break plus subsidies from the school budget. For concerts, festivals and speakers, events etc. Every kid was getting near $10k in total expenditures on non academic activities outside athletics. That’s why I say if it carries any incremental value at all to an institutions the number isn’t that big. I suspect hockey and smaller roster sports actually spend more per team member often.