Sensible Gun Safety

[NattyBohChamps04]

We know that criminals don't follow gun laws. Plenty of them know they'll face serious consequences if caught, yet they still break the law.

Unfortunately there are hundreds of thousands of irresponsible "law abiding gun owners". More than a million guns were reported stolen from 2017-2021. More than a million in just four years, and nearly all from private "law abiding gun owners."

How about we enforce the laws on the books AND make it harder for criminals to get their hands on guns. I haven't heard anyone in the gun control camp say we shouldn't enforce the laws on the books.

Unfortunately there was no way to enforce the laws in a lot of the links posted. Because no one was aware the perps had broken the laws prior to the murders.

I do love the heavy.com reporting. Here's a juicy quote from https://heavy.com/news/shannon-cortez-gooden/

Gooden had not updated his Facebook page since 2018. It shows him at a Burnsville shopping center and with kids. In 2014, he wrote on Facebook, “My new clear gun, this will be my third iwata supernova. But this one is a WS not a LS meaning it’s now a complain gun they just came out this last December / faster / wetter looking finish / and they spray at 2bar that’s like 30 psi. The LS sprayed a 19 psi and it was a HVLP to slow for clear.”

Here's the iwata supernova:

[cradleandshoot]

We know that criminals don't follow gun laws. Plenty of them know they'll face serious consequences if caught, yet they still break the law.

Unfortunately there are hundreds of thousands of irresponsible "law abiding gun owners". More than a million guns were reported stolen from 2017-2021. More than a million in just four years, and nearly all from private "law abiding gun owners."

How about we enforce the laws on the books AND make it harder for criminals to get their hands on guns. I haven't heard anyone in the gun control camp say we shouldn't enforce the laws on the books.

Unfortunately there was no way to enforce the laws in a lot of the links posted. Because no one was aware the perps had broken the laws prior to the murders.

I do love the heavy.com reporting. Here's a juicy quote from https://heavy.com/news/shannon-cortez-gooden/

Gooden had not updated his Facebook page since 2018. It shows him at a Burnsville shopping center and with kids. In 2014, he wrote on Facebook, “My new clear gun, this will be my third iwata supernova. But this one is a WS not a LS meaning it’s now a complain gun they just came out this last December / faster / wetter looking finish / and they spray at 2bar that’s like 30 psi. The LS sprayed a 19 psi and it was a HVLP to slow for clear.”

Here's the iwata supernova:

You ask a good question. Why don't most prosecutors enforce the law to the fullest extent possible? Getting caught with an illegal weapon is right up there with jaywalking in the eyes of most prosecutors. When getting caught red handed with an illegal weapon gets you 10 years in prison no questions asked then the risk will no longer be worth the reward. Until then the status quo will remain the same. The gun haters will concentrate their efforts on law abiding Americans. They are the low hanging fruit.

[NattyBohChamps04]

You ask a good question. Why don't most prosecutors enforce the law to the fullest extent possible? Getting caught with an illegal weapon is right up there with jaywalking in the eyes of most prosecutors. When getting caught red handed with an illegal weapon gets you 10 years in prison no questions asked then the risk will no longer be worth the reward. Until then the status quo will remain the same. The gun haters will concentrate their efforts on law abiding Americans. They are the low hanging fruit.

Do you think gang members who are out there murdering rivals care about the prospect of 10 years in jail? They do it even when they are facing potential life sentences for their actions.

Do you think mass shooters care about a 10 year jail sentence?

They don't care, or don't comprehend. Moving minimum illegal weapon sentences from three or four years to ten isn't gonna do diddly.

Feel free to prosecute to the full extent. It's still closing the barn door after the horse is out.

[youthathletics]

You ask a good question. Why don't most prosecutors enforce the law to the fullest extent possible? Getting caught with an illegal weapon is right up there with jaywalking in the eyes of most prosecutors. When getting caught red handed with an illegal weapon gets you 10 years in prison no questions asked then the risk will no longer be worth the reward. Until then the status quo will remain the same. The gun haters will concentrate their efforts on law abiding Americans. They are the low hanging fruit.

Do you think gang members who are out there murdering rivals care about the prospect of 10 years in jail? They do it even when they are facing potential life sentences for their actions.

Do you think mass shooters care about a 10 year jail sentence?

They don't care, or don't comprehend. Moving minimum illegal weapon sentences from three or four years to ten isn't gonna do diddly.

Feel free to prosecute to the full extent. It's still closing the barn door after the horse is out.

NattyBoh plans....."Just close all jails, they are useless". Let the criminals just continue with their career, not lock them up for 10-20 years, where they can no longer be a menace.

[Seacoaster(1)]

You ask a good question. Why don't most prosecutors enforce the law to the fullest extent possible? Getting caught with an illegal weapon is right up there with jaywalking in the eyes of most prosecutors. When getting caught red handed with an illegal weapon gets you 10 years in prison no questions asked then the risk will no longer be worth the reward. Until then the status quo will remain the same. The gun haters will concentrate their efforts on law abiding Americans. They are the low hanging fruit.

Do you think gang members who are out there murdering rivals care about the prospect of 10 years in jail? They do it even when they are facing potential life sentences for their actions.

Do you think mass shooters care about a 10 year jail sentence?

They don't care, or don't comprehend. Moving minimum illegal weapon sentences from three or four years to ten isn't gonna do diddly.

Feel free to prosecute to the full extent. It's still closing the barn door after the horse is out.

NattyBoh plans....."Just close all jails, they are useless". Let the criminals just continue with their career, not lock them up for 10-20 years, where they can no longer be a menace.

Gee, not sure I read Natty's post to say anything like that. But cool emojis.

[youthathletics]

You ask a good question. Why don't most prosecutors enforce the law to the fullest extent possible? Getting caught with an illegal weapon is right up there with jaywalking in the eyes of most prosecutors. When getting caught red handed with an illegal weapon gets you 10 years in prison no questions asked then the risk will no longer be worth the reward. Until then the status quo will remain the same. The gun haters will concentrate their efforts on law abiding Americans. They are the low hanging fruit.

Do you think gang members who are out there murdering rivals care about the prospect of 10 years in jail? They do it even when they are facing potential life sentences for their actions.

Do you think mass shooters care about a 10 year jail sentence?

They don't care, or don't comprehend. Moving minimum illegal weapon sentences from three or four years to ten isn't gonna do diddly.

Feel free to prosecute to the full extent. It's still closing the barn door after the horse is out.

NattyBoh plans....."Just close all jails, they are useless". Let the criminals just continue with their career, not lock them up for 10-20 years, where they can no longer be a menace.

Gee, not sure I read Natty's post to say anything like that. But cool emojis.

Of course you didn't...

In the context of this quoted conversation. the argument is that criminals need to go away and be removed off the street, Natty argued criminals do not care about serving time...if that were the case, then why do they and their attorneys help them NOT go to jail? Oh, geez....b/c they actually do care about NOT going to jail. And yet, the attorney's and judges allow them to plea down and often walk away with a slap or some far less....which does what? SO to Natty's point.....why bother with the legal portion of jail, it's not stopping a criminals behavior.

But....if we do hold them to a stern account of the law, keep them off the street....that does what?....now you are cathing on, it makes the streets safer immediately from that one individual that could next shoot a school or a Super Bowl Celebration or our own children. Then, while they are in prison serving a long time, we can rehabilitate them with real world skills...which also needs more work.

[WaffleTwineFaceoff]

Unfortunately there are hundreds of thousands of irresponsible "law abiding gun owners". More than a million guns were reported stolen from 2017-2021. More than a million in just four years, and nearly all from private "law abiding gun owners."

How about we enforce the laws on the books AND make it harder for criminals to get their hands on guns. I haven't heard anyone in the gun control camp say we shouldn't enforce the laws on the books.

Excellent point. I believe Tennessee is currently grappling in the state government with the "guns stolen from law abiding gun owners cars" thing, and one of the issues is people leaving their guns in their cars because they are respecting "gun free zones" (of which many states are making more and more of) so we're back to Catch-22. One person interviewed indicated leaving home in the morning to picking up a child at school and returning home there were 3-4 instances where - respecting gun free zones - left the gun secured in the car. Interesting to hear that take, as part of a podcast I can't currently pull up - I'm recalling a few months ago.

In terms of law abiding citizens as an issue, let's not forget the plethora of ATF and other law enforcement "oopsies" when it comes to losing, misplacing or having guns stolen. They rank right up there, and are examples of a gun owner (custodian) with access to both the equipment and the institutional procedures for "best practices of NOT having guns misplaced or stolen", yet it happens with alarming frequency. If the ATF is cfukign up big time, well, that's concerning...

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/15/u ... len-crime/

https://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/12 ... index.html

And I know The Trace is a pro-gun lobbying organization, so take this article as you choose. The reporting facts appear solid:

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/11/lost-a ... lice-guns/

[NattyBohChamps04]

In the context of this quoted conversation. the argument is that criminals need to go away and be removed off the street, Natty argued criminals do not care about serving time...if that were the case, then why do they and their attorneys help them NOT go to jail? Oh, geez....b/c they actually do care about NOT going to jail. And yet, the attorney's and judges allow them to plea down and often walk away with a slap or some far less....which does what? SO to Natty's point.....why bother with the legal portion of jail, it's not stopping a criminals behavior.

But....if we do hold them to a stern account of the law, keep them off the street....that does what?....now you are cathing on, it makes the streets safer immediately from that one individual that could next shoot a school or a Super Bowl Celebration or our own children. Then, while they are in prison serving a long time, we can rehabilitate them with real world skills...which also needs more work.

You're making a straw man. I never said I wasn't for prosecuting criminals and throwing them in jail when they deserve it. I said that tough consequences don't affect violent crime rates in a meaningful way.

Yeah, criminals obviously care about jailtime after they're caught. They don't care before or during their crimes. Or they don't comprehend, or are in the heat of the moment.

My point is we need to tackle the gun problem before it gets to the punishment phase. Because you're not gonna solve it that way, and it's reactionary.

But hey, if you think giving a 18 year old 10 years for bringing a handgun to high school is gonna help society in the long run, that's your opinion.

[youthathletics]

In the context of this quoted conversation. the argument is that criminals need to go away and be removed off the street, Natty argued criminals do not care about serving time...if that were the case, then why do they and their attorneys help them NOT go to jail? Oh, geez....b/c they actually do care about NOT going to jail. And yet, the attorney's and judges allow them to plea down and often walk away with a slap or some far less....which does what? SO to Natty's point.....why bother with the legal portion of jail, it's not stopping a criminals behavior.

But....if we do hold them to a stern account of the law, keep them off the street....that does what?....now you are cathing on, it makes the streets safer immediately from that one individual that could next shoot a school or a Super Bowl Celebration or our own children. Then, while they are in prison serving a long time, we can rehabilitate them with real world skills...which also needs more work.

You're making a straw man. I never said I wasn't for prosecuting criminals and throwing them in jail when they deserve it. I said that tough consequences don't affect violent crime rates in a meaningful way.

Yeah, criminals obviously care about jailtime after they're caught. They don't care before or during their crimes. Or they don't comprehend, or are in the heat of the moment.

My point is we need to tackle the gun problem before it gets to the punishment phase. Because you're not gonna solve it that way, and it's reactionary.

But hey, if you think giving a 18 year old 10 years for bringing a handgun to high school is gonna help society in the long run, that's your opinion.

The point, is that 1st time violent crime offenders are NOT seeing maximum sentencing...their plea deals are allowing minimizing their violent crime, which does what? exactly correct....tell them (which you already noted they are not very wise) that they have a support system in their attorneys to help them skate. Rather, if you prosecuted sternly for violent crime, then we can grab their attention while we spend time rehabilitating them, teaching them skills, breaking down past trauma, etc.

We are never, at least in our lifetime, going to see the 2A modified to get rid of guns....if so, great. Otherwise, do something, other than hopes and prayers and get these knuckleheads off the damned street.

Having a gun is not a 'violent crime' even in a gun free zone.....that a straw man argument.

[cradleandshoot]

You ask a good question. Why don't most prosecutors enforce the law to the fullest extent possible? Getting caught with an illegal weapon is right up there with jaywalking in the eyes of most prosecutors. When getting caught red handed with an illegal weapon gets you 10 years in prison no questions asked then the risk will no longer be worth the reward. Until then the status quo will remain the same. The gun haters will concentrate their efforts on law abiding Americans. They are the low hanging fruit.

Do you think gang members who are out there murdering rivals care about the prospect of 10 years in jail? They do it even when they are facing potential life sentences for their actions.

Do you think mass shooters care about a 10 year jail sentence?

They don't care, or don't comprehend. Moving minimum illegal weapon sentences from three or four years to ten isn't gonna do diddly.

Feel free to prosecute to the full extent. It's still closing the barn door after the horse is out.

I don't really give 2 chits about what the gang bangers think. If their asses are sitting in jail for an extra 10 years then they can have plenty of time to contemplate the consequences of their actions. Too bad the angry gun haters don't go after illegal weapons with the same intensity they go after law abiding Americans with.

[cradleandshoot]

In the context of this quoted conversation. the argument is that criminals need to go away and be removed off the street, Natty argued criminals do not care about serving time...if that were the case, then why do they and their attorneys help them NOT go to jail? Oh, geez....b/c they actually do care about NOT going to jail. And yet, the attorney's and judges allow them to plea down and often walk away with a slap or some far less....which does what? SO to Natty's point.....why bother with the legal portion of jail, it's not stopping a criminals behavior.

But....if we do hold them to a stern account of the law, keep them off the street....that does what?....now you are cathing on, it makes the streets safer immediately from that one individual that could next shoot a school or a Super Bowl Celebration or our own children. Then, while they are in prison serving a long time, we can rehabilitate them with real world skills...which also needs more work.

You're making a straw man. I never said I wasn't for prosecuting criminals and throwing them in jail when they deserve it. I said that tough consequences don't affect violent crime rates in a meaningful way.

Yeah, criminals obviously care about jailtime after they're caught. They don't care before or during their crimes. Or they don't comprehend, or are in the heat of the moment.

My point is we need to tackle the gun problem before it gets to the punishment phase. Because you're not gonna solve it that way, and it's reactionary.

But hey, if you think giving a 18 year old 10 years for bringing a handgun to high school is gonna help society in the long run, that's your opinion.

The point, is that 1st time violent crime offenders are NOT seeing maximum sentencing...their plea deals are allowing minimizing their violent crime, which does what? exactly correct....tell them (which you already noted they are not very wise) that they have a support system in their attorneys to help them skate. Rather, if you prosecuted sternly for violent crime, then we can grab their attention while we spend time rehabilitating them, teaching them skills, breaking down past trauma, etc.

We are never, at least in our lifetime, going to see the 2A modified to get rid of guns....if so, great. Otherwise, do something, other than hopes and prayers and get these knuckleheads off the damned street.

Having a gun is not a 'violent crime' even in a gun free zone.....that a straw man argument.

There you go again, injecting common sense into the conversation.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Excellent point. I believe Tennessee is currently grappling in the state government with the "guns stolen from law abiding gun owners cars" thing, and one of the issues is people leaving their guns in their cars because they are respecting "gun free zones" (of which many states are making more and more of) so we're back to Catch-22. One person interviewed indicated leaving home in the morning to picking up a child at school and returning home there were 3-4 instances where - respecting gun free zones - left the gun secured in the car. Interesting to hear that take, as part of a podcast I can't currently pull up - I'm recalling a few months ago.

In terms of law abiding citizens as an issue, let's not forget the plethora of ATF and other law enforcement "oopsies" when it comes to losing, misplacing or having guns stolen. They rank right up there, and are examples of a gun owner (custodian) with access to both the equipment and the institutional procedures for "best practices of NOT having guns misplaced or stolen", yet it happens with alarming frequency. If the ATF is cfukign up big time, well, that's concerning...

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/15/u ... len-crime/

https://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/12 ... index.html

And I know The Trace is a pro-gun lobbying organization, so take this article as you choose. The reporting facts appear solid:

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/11/lost-a ... lice-guns/

If people are getting guns stolen from their cars because they're in "gun free zones", then their gun wasn't properly secured in their car. Left in consoles, glove boxes, under seats, in a holster, etc. Happens in plenty of "guns allowed" zones as well. Heck, guns get left in restrooms after people take a dump. I'm also amazed at how many people have Glock, M&P and other firearm stickers on their car around here. It's like a big billboard saying "there might be a gun in here!".

They need to be in a safe, secured to the car in a proper manner.

Gun owners are a forgetful bunch. Same as the rest of us. TSA found 6,700 guns at airport checkpoints last year. 93% loaded. The No. 1 reason the TSA hears from passengers is that they simply forgot their firearms were in their carry-on bag.

We can also hold Police and the feds accountable too for their stupidity. But from your articles, that's a few thousand missing guns over various time frames. Let's say they're super incompetent and the military, feds and state and local agencies lose 5,000 guns per year. That's a lot, but when compared to the 250,000 guns lost or stolen in one year 2016 from The Trace article? It's a drop in the bucket.

[NattyBohChamps04]

The point, is that 1st time violent crime offenders are NOT seeing maximum sentencing...their plea deals are allowing minimizing their violent crime, which does what? exactly correct....tell them (which you already noted they are not very wise) that they have a support system in their attorneys to help them skate. Rather, if you prosecuted sternly for violent crime, then we can grab their attention while we spend time rehabilitating them, teaching them skills, breaking down past trauma, etc.

We are never, at least in our lifetime, going to see the 2A modified to get rid of guns....if so, great. Otherwise, do something, other than hopes and prayers and get these knuckleheads off the damned street.

Having a gun is not a 'violent crime' even in a gun free zone.....that a straw man argument.

It's a maximum for a reason. It's when that crime is particularly heinous. Different motivations, circumstances, etc.

But the vast majority of sentences fall within or even above sentencing guidelines. In Virginia, murders got sentenced within or above guidelines 88% of the time. 22% of the time it was above the guidelines.

There is a media narrative (no surprise) that we're just letting violent offenders on the streets right and left with bare minimum sentences. I'm sure it happens, but it's not some national emergency. Repeat-offenders only account for 1/3 of the violent crime in this country. Which is a lot, but still a minority of violent crime. And longer sentences by a few years will only delay when they'll re-offend.

You're correct that proper rehabilitation needs to occur. Which isn't happening, and won't happen with longer sentences in our current setup.

C&S had the suggestion that "When getting caught red handed with an illegal weapon gets you 10 years in prison no questions asked then the risk will no longer be worth the reward."

I also never said having a gun is a violent crime.

[cradleandshoot]

Excellent point. I believe Tennessee is currently grappling in the state government with the "guns stolen from law abiding gun owners cars" thing, and one of the issues is people leaving their guns in their cars because they are respecting "gun free zones" (of which many states are making more and more of) so we're back to Catch-22. One person interviewed indicated leaving home in the morning to picking up a child at school and returning home there were 3-4 instances where - respecting gun free zones - left the gun secured in the car. Interesting to hear that take, as part of a podcast I can't currently pull up - I'm recalling a few months ago.

In terms of law abiding citizens as an issue, let's not forget the plethora of ATF and other law enforcement "oopsies" when it comes to losing, misplacing or having guns stolen. They rank right up there, and are examples of a gun owner (custodian) with access to both the equipment and the institutional procedures for "best practices of NOT having guns misplaced or stolen", yet it happens with alarming frequency. If the ATF is cfukign up big time, well, that's concerning...

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/15/u ... len-crime/

https://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/12 ... index.html

And I know The Trace is a pro-gun lobbying organization, so take this article as you choose. The reporting facts appear solid:

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/11/lost-a ... lice-guns/

If people are getting guns stolen from their cars because they're in "gun free zones", then their gun wasn't properly secured in their car. Left in consoles, glove boxes, under seats, in a holster, etc. Happens in plenty of "guns allowed" zones as well. Heck, guns get left in restrooms after people take a dump. I'm also amazed at how many people have Glock, M&P and other firearm stickers on their car around here. It's like a big billboard saying "there might be a gun in here!".

They need to be in a safe, secured to the car in a proper manner.

Gun owners are a forgetful bunch. Same as the rest of us. TSA found 6,700 guns at airport checkpoints last year. 93% loaded. The No. 1 reason the TSA hears from passengers is that they simply forgot their firearms were in their carry-on bag.

We can also hold Police and the feds accountable too for their stupidity. But from your articles, that's a few thousand missing guns over various time frames. Let's say they're super incompetent and the military, feds and state and local agencies lose 5,000 guns per year. That's a lot, but when compared to the 250,000 guns lost or stolen in one year 2016 from The Trace article? It's a drop in the bucket.

The gun owners that I'm familiar with don't advertise to the public they own firearms. The gun owners im familiar with to include my 2 sons keep their weapons in state of the art gun safes. Any gun owner that keeps their weapon locked in their car is a blithering idiot. My oldest son who is a federal law enforcement officer keeps his handgun at times in a gun safe bolted to his Suburban. 99.9 % of time his handgun is always on his person. He is encouraged to do so by his supervisors. The theory is that it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Anybody who wants to own a firearm should invest the time to take a basic firearm safety course.

[cradleandshoot]

The point, is that 1st time violent crime offenders are NOT seeing maximum sentencing...their plea deals are allowing minimizing their violent crime, which does what? exactly correct....tell them (which you already noted they are not very wise) that they have a support system in their attorneys to help them skate. Rather, if you prosecuted sternly for violent crime, then we can grab their attention while we spend time rehabilitating them, teaching them skills, breaking down past trauma, etc.

We are never, at least in our lifetime, going to see the 2A modified to get rid of guns....if so, great. Otherwise, do something, other than hopes and prayers and get these knuckleheads off the damned street.

Having a gun is not a 'violent crime' even in a gun free zone.....that a straw man argument.

It's a maximum for a reason. It's when that crime is particularly heinous. Different motivations, circumstances, etc.

But the vast majority of sentences fall within or even above sentencing guidelines. In Virginia, murders got sentenced within or above guidelines 88% of the time. 22% of the time it was above the guidelines.

There is a media narrative (no surprise) that we're just letting violent offenders on the streets right and left with bare minimum sentences. I'm sure it happens, but it's not some national emergency.

C&S had the suggestion that "When getting caught red handed with an illegal weapon gets you 10 years in prison no questions asked then the risk will no longer be worth the reward."

I also never said having a gun is a violent crime.

Having an illegal weapon in your possession is a crime. What is the point of extensive background checks and training for law abiding Americans? When you play by the rules your expected to be held to a higher standard. When you thumb your nose at the rule of law and are never held accountable why bother to obey the law at all?

[NattyBohChamps04]

The gun owners that I'm familiar with don't advertise to the public they own firearms. The gun owners im familiar with to include my 2 sons keep their weapons in state of the art gun safes. Any gun owner that keeps their weapon locked in their car is a blithering idiot. My oldest son who is a federal law enforcement officer keeps his handgun at times in a gun safe bolted to his Suburban. 99.9 % of time his handgun is always on his person. He is encouraged to do so by his supervisors. The theory is that it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Anybody who wants to own a firearm should invest the time to take a basic firearm safety course.

The gun owners I know do and do not advertise. I certainly don't, but there are plenty around here who do. I've got a 6.2 mile drive home from work, with lacrosse practice to coach in-between. I'll count the cars with gun stickers this afternoon and report back.

You're right, there are a lot idiots out there. And lots of people who have a severe lack of safety training.

Even the well-trained occasionally shoot themselves, shoot others, have negligent discharges, and leave their guns out where others can find or get them. It's just human nature. Can't be 100% perfect.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Having an illegal weapon in your possession is a crime. What is the point of extensive background checks and training for law abiding Americans? When you play by the rules your expected to be held to a higher standard. When you thumb your nose at the rule of law and are never held accountable why bother to obey the law at all?

Never held accountable? We have the most people in jail in the entire world.

Violent crime rates have been decreasing for decades. They're at or near the lowest they've been in like 50 years.

Listening to you and YA (and certain news outlets) makes it sound like the sky is falling.

[DMac]

And lots of people who have a severe lack of safety training.

"And lots of people who have no safety training."
Fixed that for ya.

[cradleandshoot]

Having an illegal weapon in your possession is a crime. What is the point of extensive background checks and training for law abiding Americans? When you play by the rules your expected to be held to a higher standard. When you thumb your nose at the rule of law and are never held accountable why bother to obey the law at all?

Never held accountable? We have the most people in jail in the entire world.

Violent crime rates have been decreasing for decades. They're at or near the lowest they've been in like 50 years.

Listening to you and YA (and certain news outlets) makes it sound like the sky is falling.

You clearly are clueless how the issue of crime and criminals are dealt with in NYS.

[WaffleTwineFaceoff]

The gun owners that I'm familiar with don't advertise to the public they own firearms. The gun owners im familiar with to include my 2 sons keep their weapons in state of the art gun safes. Any gun owner that keeps their weapon locked in their car is a blithering idiot. My oldest son who is a federal law enforcement officer keeps his handgun at times in a gun safe bolted to his Suburban. 99.9 % of time his handgun is always on his person. He is encouraged to do so by his supervisors. The theory is that it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Anybody who wants to own a firearm should invest the time to take a basic firearm safety course.

The gun owners I know do and do not advertise. I certainly don't, but there are plenty around here who do. I've got a 6.2 mile drive home from work, with lacrosse practice to coach in-between. I'll count the cars with gun stickers this afternoon and report back.

You're right, there are a lot idiots out there. And lots of people who have a severe lack of safety training.

Even the well-trained occasionally shoot themselves, shoot others, have negligent discharges, and leave their guns out where others can find or get them. It's just human nature. Can't be 100% perfect.

I personally can't imagine leaving a firearm in a vehicle. If circumstances required that I'd most definitely be one of those "Bolted safe" persons. Just brought up the TN situation as it is "top of TN mind" right now at the state legislature level, and interesting anecdotes are being shared about navigating the patchwork quilt of gun free zones if you every day carry. Interesting to hear the thoughts here regarding it all.

Feels like something where at the very least having a bipartisan educational campaign for awareness, and strategies for voluntary compliance of "best practices", could potentially fly. Make it cool to be super aware and intentional regarding the need for keeping track of one's firearms with the same zealotry we did with our toddlers at Walmart or the beach.