ivy league 2024

[FannOLax]

Okay, 2023 was a disappointing follow-up to 2022 for the Ivy League, so let's look forward to 2024. Any thoughts on pre-season Ivy favorites, how many Ivy wins Dartmouth will notch under Kirwan, the oddity of watching Chayse Ierlan playing for Hop, where the ILT should be held, etc?

[bearlaxfan]

Okay, 2023 was a disappointing follow-up to 2022 for the Ivy League, so let's look forward to 2024. Any thoughts on pre-season Ivy favorites, how many Ivy wins Dartmouth will notch under Kirwan, the oddity of watching Chayse Ierlan playing for Hop, where the ILT should be held, etc?

Looking at program trends breaking or continuing given the player graduations (and now transfers) that college programs have always dealth with.
Brown: '23 first Daly year without an ILT slot. What next?
Cornell: Despite real coaching quality, can a very young coaching staff maintain consistency? There is a learning curve...
Dartmouth: All eyes on Hanover obviously.
Harvard: Up&down results to coaching change so far. As always, can the recruit quality translate to on-the-field success?
Penn: Life after Handley. When they get to the big dance, crack the quartrrfinal ceiling.
Princeton: Whole lotta slots to fill. Whooooo...
Yale: Will they need to score 18+ all the time? They might!

Also too, ferchripessake can the IL regular season have some meaning: WINNER HOSTS!!!

[Laxfan23]

I’ll play:
1) League does better than ‘23
2) An IL team will win it all before they get likely four in and certainly five.
3) I will be long dead before they get six again if ever.
4) Yale wins IL reg season but not ILT
5) Princeton dips the most but most of their transfers are impact players for their new homes
6) Dartmouth wins two.
7) Brown gets back to ILT
8) Harvard/ Cornell/ Penn. ????

[MDlaxfan76]

I’ll play:
1) League does better than ‘23
2) An IL team will win it all before they get likely four in and certainly five.
3) I will be long dead before they get six again if ever.
4) Yale wins IL reg season but not ILT
5) Princeton dips the most but most of their transfers are impact players for their new homes
6) Dartmouth wins two.
7) Brown gets back to ILT
8) Harvard/ Cornell/ Penn. ????

As much as I'd like the prediction of Dartmouth winning two, I think the likelihood of zero next year is as high as two.

Unlike some of our Ivy rivals, and certainly Big 10 and ACC, etc, Dartmouth has had a policy of very few exceptions to inbound transfers. Maybe 1 or 2 across all sports...Dartmouth Lax has not been in that game at all...could that change with the AD supporting such with the new coach? It's a question we've raised, but it's been a general Dartmouth philosophy for a long time...and I don't see it likely between now and '23 season...but who knows..

So, I don't think we'll see big changes to personnel in just one year...that said, it was a relatively young team and the trajectory of recruiting was already on the rise. Of the top 12 scorers, only one, #6, was a senior. The top 2 were sophomores, the 3rd a junior. 4th a freshman, fifth a sophomore, etc. Top D man graduates. Top FOGO graduates. Goal keeping was not a strength, but that was the freshman in his first season...dunno how much better that gets next year, but there's definitely room to improve and maturation can make a big difference. They have a " IL 4-star commit" coming in, but I haven't seen him play live. Highlights show he's 6-1, athletic, and appears to be patient in net (big positive IMO), but willing to go all in to make saves...some technique stuff to work on. St. Sebastian's and Laxachusetts. Certainly potential. I haven't heard yet who will be working with the tenders, but that's an important role.

The other 4 star is an LSM out of Landon.

Only 9 official recruits in 2023 class, may be some 'preferred' walk-ons. But who knows, someone might make a jump over summer with Kirwan coming in...I think the AD would go to bat for such if the right opportunity presented. They're expecting to increase recruit slots as it is.

[The Orfling]

Great discussion!

1. Success of Ivy League as a Whole in 2023: I think the league as a whole will not do better than 2023 but could get three teams into the tournament again. The league is healthy and thriving -- awesome competition, fantastic talent coming in the door -- but I see three big factors at work that may impose a ceiling for 2024:

1A. Going into 2024 there are a lot of important departures by 2023 seniors. Princeton most notably in terms of number and aggregate talent, but there are some presumably high-impact departures from other programs (e.g. Handley/Ferrare for Penn; Ierlan/Adler/Coyle for Cornell; Rizzotti and Myers for Dartmouth; D. McLane/Gunty/TYK for Brown). (Please correct me if I'm wrong on departures, I know some players have been able to preserve eligibility by taking a semester or semesters off.)

1B. Additionally, the league is not as strong at the "specialist" positions as some of the other strong conferences: 4 out of 7 Ivies were under 50% for face-offs in 2023, and 3 out of 7 were under 50% in *save percentage in 2023 (*note: I accept that save percentage is imperfect as a metric for goalie talent because it is so impacted by the quality of team defense, but it's a metric).

1C. I don't think any Ivy NCAA tournament entries will make it to Memorial Day (would love to be wrong, though); I believe that the "free agency" era stacks the decks too much against the programs/conferences (e.g. Ivies, service academies, others) that can't or won't accept grad year transfers. The 5th COVID year phenomenon also comes into play -- I don't think it's accidental that the past two champions (Terps and ND) both had very experienced rosters loaded with 5th years (home-grown or transfers) and some of the grad transfers played very key roles (Donville and Khan for MD, Tevlin/Fake/Conlin for Notre Dame). Once it's back to undergraduate transfers only that will be less of a factor (although the portal is here to stay): there won't be rosters loaded with fifth year players, and some of the Ivies have been willing to explore the portal on a relatively frequent basis, although other Ivies either haven't accepted lacrosse transfers (Princeton, Harvard, Dartmouth) or have done so extremely rarely (Yale).

2. Pre-season favorites: I would say Cornell edges out Yale as a favorite for me. Although Cornell loses Ierlan, the backup Knust has looked great when he played, and although there's presumably no replacing Adler, they've got some strong defensive talent already on the roster. For Yale, they will be, again, loaded on offense and they aren't losing many high-impact players to graduation since players like Matt Brandau and Thomas Bragg took semesters off to be able to play four lacrosse seasons. However, two years of watching Yale appear to be almost entirely at sea on the defensive end have made me skeptical (in a non-judgmental way!) of whether anything will be materially different in 2024. Could they emerge as league champs riding on high scoring shootouts? Yes, possibly, which is why I have Cornell only edging out Yale. And there's enough parity in the league that a non-Cornell/non-Yale league winner wouldn't surprise me. (FannOLax is more optimistic than I am on Yale's 2024 trajectory and I hope he's right.)

[mdk01]

Closer to '23 than '22. In fact we may never see 6 again. Next 2 years of Covid year grad transfers will give the Top 15 non-Ivies a real leg up

[MDlaxfan76]

Great summary by Orfling.

I'd note re goalies that while saves percentage is indeed influenced by team D, if so, low save % is an indicator of not great team D...so a valid metric in that sense.

But actually, I think saves % remains an excellent measure for tender quality. Sure, gotta adjust for quality of opponents, but sub 50% ain't cutting it, period. I tend to look at the number of games sub 50%; almost all tenders have a couple per season these days given the quality of shots, but how many matter...overall percentage can be boosted by a couple of easy games to do so in, but having 60% of the games in a hard schedule above 50% is the floor. Should be 80% or better. And goalies definitely can be in the low 50's overall despite defenses that give up a lot of shots...or FOGO's giving up breaks...

The Ivies usually have a wealth of quality goalie play, but not every year does it work out that way.
'22 was very strong (100% of teams had over 50% saves ), '23 not so much...

I agree that the 5th year phenomenon likely needs to work through before we see an Ivy on Memorial Day again. Rich get richer for awhile yet.

[coda]

Have to guess the Ivy takes a step back. Princeton has been gutted. Penn struggled on O with Handley. Farrare will be missed. Cornell and Yale look like the only preseason teams likely for the tournament. Can Yale continue their Air Raid version of lacrosse and make the tournament?

[FannOLax]

...
...
Also too, ferchripessake can the IL regular season have some meaning: WINNER HOSTS!!!

In 2018, when the Ivy announced that Columbia was to host the ILT, I was all for it (at that point, I was living in NYC). However, I see the results, including attendance, as having been underwhelming. I'd be happy to go back to the traditional practice of the regular-season-champ hosting. If the League really wants the tourney to be at a neutral site, then please, let's not pay another D1 lax school to use its facility (as the Ivy was going to do in 2020 by holding the tourney at Hofstra), and make sure it's held at an accessible location with ample parking (which Columbia U's facilities lack). Of course, having the regular-season champ host does enhance the value of winning the regular season, which makes plenty of sense.

[mdk01]

...
...
Also too, ferchripessake can the IL regular season have some meaning: WINNER HOSTS!!!

In 2018, when the Ivy announced that Columbia was to host the ILT, I was all for it (at that point, I was living in NYC). However, I see the results, including attendance, as having been underwhelming. I'd be happy to go back to the traditional practice of the regular-season-champ hosting. If the League really wants the tourney to be at a neutral site, then please, let's not pay another D1 lax school to use its facility (as the Ivy was going to do in 2020 by holding the tourney at Hofstra), and make sure it's held at an accessible location with ample parking (which Columbia U's facilities lack). Of course, having the regular-season champ host does enhance the value of winning the regular season, which makes plenty of sense.

I actually would recommend West Point, which is about as central location for the league as there is.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Have to guess the Ivy takes a step back. Princeton has been gutted. Penn struggled on O with Handley. Farrare will be missed. Cornell and Yale look like the only preseason teams likely for the tournament. Can Yale continue their Air Raid version of lacrosse and make the tournament?

Princeton may have the best FOGO/Goalie combo in the league next season along with potentially the best defense. Offense returns a good amount of experience. Lost a lot though. Time will tell.

[The Orfling]

Have to guess the Ivy takes a step back. Princeton has been gutted. Penn struggled on O with Handley. Farrare will be missed. Cornell and Yale look like the only preseason teams likely for the tournament. Can Yale continue their Air Raid version of lacrosse and make the tournament?

Princeton may have the best FOGO/Goalie combo in the league next season along with potentially the best defense. Offense returns a good amount of experience. Lost a lot though. Time will tell.

That's a great point, TLD. Gianforcaro in net was, in my opinion, playing at a first team All-American level by the end of the season, and McMeekin came on strong at FOGO (and presumably Sandoval might be back from injury to give a terrific 1-2 punch at the X). That can go a long way, as we saw in Princeton's convincing ILT win against Yale in which Gianforcaro made something like 20 saves and McMeekin was over 50% in face-offs on the day and Princeton scored its first goal in about 5 seconds off a clean faceoff win.

[bearlaxfan]

Have to guess the Ivy takes a step back. Princeton has been gutted. Penn struggled on O with Handley. Farrare will be missed. Cornell and Yale look like the only preseason teams likely for the tournament. Can Yale continue their Air Raid version of lacrosse and make the tournament?

Princeton may have the best FOGO/Goalie combo in the league next season along with potentially the best defense. Offense returns a good amount of experience. Lost a lot though. Time will tell.

That's a great point, TLD. Gianforcaro in net was, in my opinion, playing at a first team All-American level by the end of the season, and McMeekin came on strong at FOGO (and presumably Sandoval might be back from injury to give a terrific 1-2 punch at the X). That can go a long way, as we saw in Princeton's convincing ILT win against Yale in which Gianforcaro made something like 20 saves and McMeekin was over 50% in face-offs on the day and Princeton scored its first goal in about 5 seconds off a clean faceoff win.

Besides stopping shots, Gianforcaro was the best outlet passer I saw last year. Decisive and accurate. Unless the oppo ride was excellent Princeton got the ball up-and-out. Nota lot of, as hockey announcers put it, "D to D" and balls stuck in longsticks or goalie stick as the clock ticked. Most of his targets are gone, but given Madalon's recruiting record, bet they have good athletes to continue the trend.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Have to guess the Ivy takes a step back. Princeton has been gutted. Penn struggled on O with Handley. Farrare will be missed. Cornell and Yale look like the only preseason teams likely for the tournament. Can Yale continue their Air Raid version of lacrosse and make the tournament?

Princeton may have the best FOGO/Goalie combo in the league next season along with potentially the best defense. Offense returns a good amount of experience. Lost a lot though. Time will tell.

That's a great point, TLD. Gianforcaro in net was, in my opinion, playing at a first team All-American level by the end of the season, and McMeekin came on strong at FOGO (and presumably Sandoval might be back from injury to give a terrific 1-2 punch at the X). That can go a long way, as we saw in Princeton's convincing ILT win against Yale in which Gianforcaro made something like 20 saves and McMeekin was over 50% in face-offs on the day and Princeton scored its first goal in about 5 seconds off a clean faceoff win.

Besides stopping shots, Gianforcaro was the best outlet passer I saw last year. Decisive and accurate. Unless the oppo ride was excellent Princeton got the ball up-and-out. Nota lot of, as hockey announcers put it, "D to D" and balls stuck in longsticks or goalie stick as the clock ticked. Most of his targets are gone, but given Madalon's recruiting record, bet they have good athletes to continue the trend.

Yep. 4 of the 6 SSDMs are back. All 4 logged a lot of minutes. Will miss Stevens and Pedersen for sure but experienced players return there.

[coda]

Have to guess the Ivy takes a step back. Princeton has been gutted. Penn struggled on O with Handley. Farrare will be missed. Cornell and Yale look like the only preseason teams likely for the tournament. Can Yale continue their Air Raid version of lacrosse and make the tournament?

Princeton may have the best FOGO/Goalie combo in the league next season along with potentially the best defense. Offense returns a good amount of experience. Lost a lot though. Time will tell.

Goalie is fantastic. I am not buying the FOGO. He was above 50% in 2 of his last 4. That was vs Yale and Penn State. Yale was #32 in face-off percentage in the nation (very mediocre) and PSU was 56th in the nation, one of the worst in the country. He still may make strides, but I wouldnt base it off 2 games vs weak competition. I wouldnt base FOGO off 2 games anyway, match-ups are so important and unpredictable at the position. Perhaps the argument is he could be the tallest midget, as the Ivy had a dearth of quality FOGOs last year. Probably should consider he is losing some excellent wing play also.

Princeton had 6 players make the All-Ivy teams and I think 5 are gone. I believe Ben Finlay (senior, D), Roberts (senior LSM), Peterson (Michigan, SSM) are all gone. Losing 3 of your top 6 on defense is going to affect you. They are losing their best LSM and SSDM. Offensively they lost 5 of their top 8 in pts. Macksey is a stud, but that is a lot of production walking out the door. It is possible that Princeton does not miss a beat, but it is highly improbable. IF Princeton wins the Ivy and makes the tournament next year, Madalon will get a lot of Coach of the Year consideration.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Have to guess the Ivy takes a step back. Princeton has been gutted. Penn struggled on O with Handley. Farrare will be missed. Cornell and Yale look like the only preseason teams likely for the tournament. Can Yale continue their Air Raid version of lacrosse and make the tournament?

Princeton may have the best FOGO/Goalie combo in the league next season along with potentially the best defense. Offense returns a good amount of experience. Lost a lot though. Time will tell.

Goalie is fantastic. I am not buying the FOGO. He was above 50% in 2 of his last 4. That was vs Yale and Penn State. Yale was #32 in face-off percentage in the nation (very mediocre) and PSU was 56th in the nation, one of the worst in the country. He still may make strides, but I wouldnt base it off 2 games vs weak competition. I wouldnt base FOGO off 2 games anyway, match-ups are so important and unpredictable at the position. Perhaps the argument is he could be the tallest midget, as the Ivy had a dearth of quality FOGOs last year. Probably should consider he is losing some excellent wing play also.

Princeton had 6 players make the All-Ivy teams and I think 5 are gone. I believe Ben Finlay (senior, D), Roberts (senior LSM), Peterson (Michigan, SSM) are all gone. Losing 3 of your top 6 on defense is going to affect you. They are losing their best LSM and SSDM. Offensively they lost 5 of their top 8 in pts. Macksey is a stud, but that is a lot of production walking out the door. It is possible that Princeton does not miss a beat, but it is highly improbable. IF Princeton wins the Ivy and makes the tournament next year, Madalon will get a lot of Coach of the Year consideration.

I believe I said time will tell. Anyway, Tyler Sandoval is also back.
Time will tell. Anyone said they are winning the Ivy League? My guess is that the team will be competitive. Because the team suffered so many injuries last year, a lot of players gained some experience. Hopefully those guys take another step. Time will tell.

[wgdsr]

traditionally not the greatest lacrosse, but 18 future ivy leaguers in the game. live stream @ 7.30
https://twitter.com/NationalASG/status/ ... mfhug&s=19

[The Orfling]

traditionally not the greatest lacrosse, but 18 future ivy leaguers in the game. live stream @ 7.30
https://twitter.com/NationalASG/status/ ... mfhug&s=19

Thanks for the tip, had it on in the background. My biggest take-away from the game is that I wish Hunter Chauvette hadn't decommitted from Yale to go to JHU.

Edited to add: And watched the most hilarious goalie goal I've seen, where the goalie (Moore) ran out the ball on a clear, joined in the 6 v 6 offense, got a feed, and scored (not on an empty net). His team went nuts.

[10stone5]

Leo Hoffman #2 UPenn

looks like he had a pretty bad shoulder injury,
hopefully doesn’t carry into the season.

[coda]

Leo Hoffman #2 UPenn

looks like he had a pretty bad shoulder injury,
hopefully doesn’t carry into the season.

That sucks.