Dartmouth 2024

[Laxfan23]

Unfortunately “free” or nearly free education for children from families earning “only”$125k or less will be valued as much as everything else that is “free” Providing “free” for those who can’t provide for themselves is a mistake No matter how “poor” one is, they can pay more than a $5000/year pittance……An IVY education should be worth more than $5000 or whatever that contribution is. Trust me the burden for new facilities, lawns, fields etc will be shifted to those earning $125k plus and those less than the super rich will carry the burden

[The Orfling]

Unfortunately “free” or nearly free education for children from families earning “only”$125k or less will be valued as much as everything else that is “free” Providing “free” for those who can’t provide for themselves is a mistake No matter how “poor” one is, they can pay more than a $5000/year pittance……An IVY education should be worth more than $5000 or whatever that contribution is. Trust me the burden for new facilities, lawns, fields etc will be shifted to those earning $125k plus and those less than the super rich will carry the burden

I respectfully disagree (although I understand the concerns you express). When I was in college in the mid-1980s, the old grads would come back to campus and many would talk about how they "worked their way through college" with the same type of jobs (dining hall, waiting tables, bartending) that I and many of my classmates were working and which didn't come close to giving us the money for our tuition. We would look at each other and say "wouldn't it be amazing if we could work our way through here now"? That's even more the case today as educational costs have outstripped inflation over the decades. A policy that lets hard-working students have a chance to actually "work their way through college" sounds good to me, and balancing work and study during college does a great job at fulfilling the "skin in the game" equation and making the student value the experience. Good job, Dartmouth. Your new president seems to be very impressive.

[Brownlax]

Unfortunately “free” or nearly free education for children from families earning “only”$125k or less will be valued as much as everything else that is “free” Providing “free” for those who can’t provide for themselves is a mistake No matter how “poor” one is, they can pay more than a $5000/year pittance……An IVY education should be worth more than $5000 or whatever that contribution is. Trust me the burden for new facilities, lawns, fields etc will be shifted to those earning $125k plus and those less than the super rich will carry the burden

I respectfully disagree (although I understand the concerns you express). When I was in college in the mid-1980s, the old grads would come back to campus and many would talk about how they "worked their way through college" with the same type of jobs (dining hall, waiting tables, bartending) that I and many of my classmates were working and which didn't come close to giving us the money for our tuition. We would look at each other and say "wouldn't it be amazing if we could work our way through here now"? That's even more the case today as educational costs have outstripped inflation over the decades. A policy that lets hard-working students have a chance to actually "work their way through college" sounds good to me, and balancing work and study during college does a great job at fulfilling the "skin in the game" equation and making the student value the experience. Good job, Dartmouth. Your new president seems to be very impressive.

As part of my academic scholarship/financial aid package, I was required to have a student job all four years.

[Farfromgeneva]

Unfortunately “free” or nearly free education for children from families earning “only”$125k or less will be valued as much as everything else that is “free” Providing “free” for those who can’t provide for themselves is a mistake No matter how “poor” one is, they can pay more than a $5000/year pittance……An IVY education should be worth more than $5000 or whatever that contribution is. Trust me the burden for new facilities, lawns, fields etc will be shifted to those earning $125k plus and those less than the super rich will carry the burden

I respectfully disagree (although I understand the concerns you express). When I was in college in the mid-1980s, the old grads would come back to campus and many would talk about how they "worked their way through college" with the same type of jobs (dining hall, waiting tables, bartending) that I and many of my classmates were working and which didn't come close to giving us the money for our tuition. We would look at each other and say "wouldn't it be amazing if we could work our way through here now"? That's even more the case today as educational costs have outstripped inflation over the decades. A policy that lets hard-working students have a chance to actually "work their way through college" sounds good to me, and balancing work and study during college does a great job at fulfilling the "skin in the game" equation and making the student value the experience. Good job, Dartmouth. Your new president seems to be very impressive.

I’ve worked in the SLAB (student loan asset backed securities) and currently with a non bank lender and the education in that sector has taught me that no college or university has gotten where they are without the absurdly unaccountable student loan subsidized industry. Cost, arms race to bottom infrastructure, unrestrained growth, the ability to spend on FTEs to go chase endowment money the opex wouldn’t justify without those federal funds have all benefitted the IVYs just like other institutions of higher ed and so I can’t buy the arguments on who the risk/cost transfer is going to. That’s more a sociopolitical commentary I think.

(don’t forget title IV related federal funding as well)

also close with the guys that Laurel Road and sold it to KeyBank and are sitting with a bank charter they can’t really use effectively anymore

Clawbacks on administrator comp and bonuses along with making the end dischargeable would likely solve the cost containment issue in the future can’t do much about the fixed large base ingratiate that’s unnecessary to obsolete there days. But I also know demographics means you’ve got a inverte pyramid at colleges with too many non producing cost centers relative to producers and they’re miking their college for all it’s worth.

I left Hobart early in the millenia with only Stanford debt personally. I kicked in $22k I had saved it parents probably threw in about the same, some aid and a chunky scholarship last two years for meeting some aspects (sports, leadership and economics). But that was at roughly half the sticker COA of today. And worked as a tutor and got teammates assigned so helped them but let’s just say they’d sign off on more hours than a day had if I asked so I had a towery lucrative campus gig.

[mdk01]

Unfortunately “free” or nearly free education for children from families earning “only”$125k or less will be valued as much as everything else that is “free” Providing “free” for those who can’t provide for themselves is a mistake No matter how “poor” one is, they can pay more than a $5000/year pittance……An IVY education should be worth more than $5000 or whatever that contribution is. Trust me the burden for new facilities, lawns, fields etc will be shifted to those earning $125k plus and those less than the super rich will carry the burden

Your comment would be better directed at an administration that builds a new climbing wall and jacks up tuition by 5%. And I think that it is not an all or nothing with a cut off at 125K. It just means that those above $125k don't get a full ride. And while it may not be the case at $125k, $5000. is NOT a pittance for a student coming from a 2-3 child family with income of, say, 65k.

[Farfromgeneva]

Unfortunately “free” or nearly free education for children from families earning “only”$125k or less will be valued as much as everything else that is “free” Providing “free” for those who can’t provide for themselves is a mistake No matter how “poor” one is, they can pay more than a $5000/year pittance……An IVY education should be worth more than $5000 or whatever that contribution is. Trust me the burden for new facilities, lawns, fields etc will be shifted to those earning $125k plus and those less than the super rich will carry the burden

Your comment would be better directed at an administration that builds a new climbing wall and jacks up tuition by 5%. And I think that it is not an all or nothing with a cut off at 125K. It just means that those above $125k don't get a full ride. And while it may not be the case at $125k, $5000. is NOT a pittance for a student coming from a 2-3 child family with income of, say, 65k.

The more I read that post you replied to the more I read it as a 1980s anti welfare position.

[MDlaxfan76]

Unfortunately “free” or nearly free education for children from families earning “only”$125k or less will be valued as much as everything else that is “free” Providing “free” for those who can’t provide for themselves is a mistake No matter how “poor” one is, they can pay more than a $5000/year pittance……An IVY education should be worth more than $5000 or whatever that contribution is. Trust me the burden for new facilities, lawns, fields etc will be shifted to those earning $125k plus and those less than the super rich will carry the burden

I respectfully disagree (although I understand the concerns you express). When I was in college in the mid-1980s, the old grads would come back to campus and many would talk about how they "worked their way through college" with the same type of jobs (dining hall, waiting tables, bartending) that I and many of my classmates were working and which didn't come close to giving us the money for our tuition. We would look at each other and say "wouldn't it be amazing if we could work our way through here now"? That's even more the case today as educational costs have outstripped inflation over the decades. A policy that lets hard-working students have a chance to actually "work their way through college" sounds good to me, and balancing work and study during college does a great job at fulfilling the "skin in the game" equation and making the student value the experience. Good job, Dartmouth. Your new president seems to be very impressive.

As part of my academic scholarship/financial aid package, I was required to have a student job all four years.

My wife as well, she didn't take a nickel from her parents for Dartmouth. Academic scholarships, loans, and work. Nor to do HBS, though that took longer for us to pay off. I had loans for undergrad plus parental support and loans on my own for MBA. My wife certainly didn't value the experience less because she competed for and received scholarship support by being admitted to Dartmouth. And we 'value' this education by being regular donors to programs beyond lacrosse that go to making scholarships possible for the next generation.

I dunno where Laxfan23 is coming from, but this increase in scholarship support availability is made possible by a very large generous donation from a very successful alum of both the College undergrad and Tuck and his wife. Not through tuition increases. My wife and I are not in this class of donor!!, but there are a lot of us who give back financially in thanks.

23 may also not understand that $125k is not the limit, just the floor, on scholarship support, as families making more will continue to get partial aid packages based on income, other assets, and number of kids, etc.

[MDlaxfan76]

Unfortunately “free” or nearly free education for children from families earning “only”$125k or less will be valued as much as everything else that is “free” Providing “free” for those who can’t provide for themselves is a mistake No matter how “poor” one is, they can pay more than a $5000/year pittance……An IVY education should be worth more than $5000 or whatever that contribution is. Trust me the burden for new facilities, lawns, fields etc will be shifted to those earning $125k plus and those less than the super rich will carry the burden

Your comment would be better directed at an administration that builds a new climbing wall and jacks up tuition by 5%. And I think that it is not an all or nothing with a cut off at 125K. It just means that those above $125k don't get a full ride. And while it may not be the case at $125k, $5000. is NOT a pittance for a student coming from a 2-3 child family with income of, say, 65k.

The more I read that post you replied to the more I read it as a 1980s anti welfare position.

grumpy?

[Sportin' Life]

It has been mighty quiet in these parts lately. The Big Green is on a four game skid and has struggled over that period. To be fair, the smart money was not on Dartmouth to win any of those games although Mother Nature made things interesting vs Penn. Can Dartmouth show the impact of a new coaching staff down the stretch and claim an Ivy win? The Brown game offers the best hope as the Bears are in total disarray.

[MDlaxfan76]

It has been mighty quiet in these parts lately. The Big Green is on a four game skid and has struggled over that period. To be fair, the smart money was not on Dartmouth to win any of those games although Mother Nature made things interesting vs Penn. Can Dartmouth show the impact of a new coaching staff down the stretch and claim an Ivy win? The Brown game offers the best hope as the Bears are in total disarray.

There's always a chance.

Personally, I have liked some of what we've seen in "IQ" improvement, just don't think we have enough total horses.

Yale's defense can be beaten, but I don't know that we can stop Brandau. Really high efficiency.

Cornell looks out of reach, but that's why we play the games. Never know.

Brown definitely is in disarray but will be hungry for their own likely single Ivy win. Takeable.

[Sportin' Life]

Brown no longer needs to worry about earning its single IL win. The Bears will be brimming with confidence and relishing the opportunity to burnish their reputations in a down year at the expense of the Big Green. On the other side of the coin, Dartmouth played an outstanding first half vs Yale. Let's hope they can deliver such an effort across four quarters in Providence on Sat.

[MDlaxfan76]

Brown no longer needs to worry about earning its single IL win. The Bears will be brimming with confidence and relishing the opportunity to burnish their reputations in a down year at the expense of the Big Green. On the other side of the coin, Dartmouth played an outstanding first half vs Yale. Let's hope they can deliver such an effort across four quarters in Providence on Sat.

Yes, Brown should be newly confident.
Hopefully not as hungry?

[FannOLax]

Brown no longer needs to worry about earning its single IL win. The Bears will be brimming with confidence and relishing the opportunity to burnish their reputations in a down year at the expense of the Big Green. On the other side of the coin, Dartmouth played an outstanding first half vs Yale. Let's hope they can deliver such an effort across four quarters in Providence on Sat.

Yes, Brown should be newly confident.
Hopefully not as hungry?

Brown could still make the ILT by winning its last two Ivy games, although it needs some help via another team beating Princeton. So I would expect full effort from Bruno.

[MDlaxfan76]

Brown no longer needs to worry about earning its single IL win. The Bears will be brimming with confidence and relishing the opportunity to burnish their reputations in a down year at the expense of the Big Green. On the other side of the coin, Dartmouth played an outstanding first half vs Yale. Let's hope they can deliver such an effort across four quarters in Providence on Sat.

Yes, Brown should be newly confident.
Hopefully not as hungry?

Brown could still make the ILT by winning its last two Ivy games, although it needs some help via another team beating Princeton. So I would expect full effort from Bruno.

Me too.

And I think they have enough more horses to beat Dartmouth, assuming they play remotely as well together as against PU.

But Dartmouth is hungry. Just don't know if we have enough horses yet.
Hope so!

[mdk01]

Brown no longer needs to worry about earning its single IL win. The Bears will be brimming with confidence and relishing the opportunity to burnish their reputations in a down year at the expense of the Big Green. On the other side of the coin, Dartmouth played an outstanding first half vs Yale. Let's hope they can deliver such an effort across four quarters in Providence on Sat.

Yes, Brown should be newly confident.
Hopefully not as hungry?

Brown could still make the ILT by winning its last two Ivy games, although it needs some help via another team beating Princeton. So I would expect full effort from Bruno.

Me too.

And I think they have enough more horses to beat Dartmouth, assuming they play remotely as well together as against PU.

But Dartmouth is hungry. Just don't know if we have enough horses yet.
Hope so!

Injuries certainly haven't helped. Rogan and Zappitello have played in the same game only once this year. LaTorre has missed the entire season.

Brown has been wildly inconsistant this year. If they play the game like they did Maryland and Princeton, problem. If not......

[MDlaxfan76]

Brown no longer needs to worry about earning its single IL win. The Bears will be brimming with confidence and relishing the opportunity to burnish their reputations in a down year at the expense of the Big Green. On the other side of the coin, Dartmouth played an outstanding first half vs Yale. Let's hope they can deliver such an effort across four quarters in Providence on Sat.

Yes, Brown should be newly confident.
Hopefully not as hungry?

Brown could still make the ILT by winning its last two Ivy games, although it needs some help via another team beating Princeton. So I would expect full effort from Bruno.

Me too.

And I think they have enough more horses to beat Dartmouth, assuming they play remotely as well together as against PU.

But Dartmouth is hungry. Just don't know if we have enough horses yet.
Hope so!

Injuries certainly haven't helped. Rogan and Zappitello have played in the same game only once this year. LaTorre has missed the entire season.

Brown has been wildly inconsistant this year. If they play the game like they did Maryland and Princeton, problem. If not......

yes, part of what I meant by 'horses'...we're not deep enough to be missing really any...

That'll improve with the next couple of years I think, but still part of the challenge of breaking through.

[mdk01]

FYI Injured in preseason, Peter Rizzotti saw the field for the first time in the 3rd qtr.of the Rutgers - Penn St. game. Got an assist