Israel and Zionism

[a fan]

Didn't see the Oscars, but it seems an interesting question was raised by two Jewish film makers. Well the Jewish community's response to two of their own actually raises the question. We all know that the holocaust took 6 million + Jewish lives. This fact is always used by the Jewish community in responding to questions of why it is ok for Israel to kill more than 30,000 Palestinians, more than 50% who are women and children as an answer to the death of less than 1500 Israelis. So I and I am sure many millions of other humans would love to know the answer to the question when does the Jewish community feel they will have killed enough innocent Palestinian civilians. Will 60,000 be enough? 1,000,000, 6,000,000?? When does Israel's right to kill innocent Palestinians justified by the Holocaust reach a limit. What is the limit (number)?

Depends your perspective, I guess. We killed around 7,000,000 Germans before they surrendered in WWII.

Has Hamas surrendered? Are they still holding hostages? No, and yes, right?

To be clear: I'm 100% against what Israel is doing of late, but if you look at the US response in Afghanistan after we were hit on 9/11 in a similar manner to what Israelis suffered last October? We killed over 100k Afghanis because we were attacked by terrorists...and we had help doing this from Canada, Germany, France, Italy and others. We don't exactly have the high moral ground here, if you ask me. Our troops went house to house in Afghanistan for about 15 years, no? Lotsa civilian deaths.

War NEVER makes sense if you even take a single step back. And these numbers are NUTSO, I agree. I wish NONE of this happened.

[PizzaSnake]

Didn't see the Oscars, but it seems an interesting question was raised by two Jewish film makers. Well the Jewish community's response to two of their own actually raises the question. We all know that the holocaust took 6 million + Jewish lives. This fact is always used by the Jewish community in responding to questions of why it is ok for Israel to kill more than 30,000 Palestinians, more than 50% who are women and children as an answer to the death of less than 1500 Israelis. So I and I am sure many millions of other humans would love to know the answer to the question when does the Jewish community feel they will have killed enough innocent Palestinian civilians. Will 60,000 be enough? 1,000,000, 6,000,000?? When does Israel's right to kill innocent Palestinians justified by the Holocaust reach a limit. What is the limit (number)?

Depends your perspective, I guess. We killed around 7,000,000 Germans before they surrendered in WWII.

Has Hamas surrendered? Are they still holding hostages? No, and yes, right?

To be clear: I'm 100% against what Israel is doing of late, but if you look at the US response in Afghanistan after we were hit on 9/11 in a similar manner to what Israelis suffered last October? We killed over 100k Afghanis because we were attacked by terrorists...and we had help doing this from Canada, Germany, France, Italy and others. We don't exactly have the high moral ground here, if you ask me. Our troops went house to house in Afghanistan for about 15 years, no? Lotsa civilian deaths.

War NEVER makes sense if you even take a single step back. And these numbers are NUTSO, I agree. I wish NONE of this happened.

I’m tired of the rationalizations. This is equally abhorrent behavior. Reminds me if the stupid wannabe-JDL shite I heard in the ‘80s at Penn.

Knock it the fcuk off or you are on your own.

Everyone is free to do what they want, but they are guaranteed nothing if they do.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Didn't see the Oscars, but it seems an interesting question was raised by two Jewish film makers. Well the Jewish community's response to two of their own actually raises the question. We all know that the holocaust took 6 million + Jewish lives. This fact is always used by the Jewish community in responding to questions of why it is ok for Israel to kill more than 30,000 Palestinians, more than 50% who are women and children as an answer to the death of less than 1500 Israelis. So I and I am sure many millions of other humans would love to know the answer to the question when does the Jewish community feel they will have killed enough innocent Palestinian civilians. Will 60,000 be enough? 1,000,000, 6,000,000?? When does Israel's right to kill innocent Palestinians justified by the Holocaust reach a limit. What is the limit (number)?

Depends your perspective, I guess. We killed around 7,000,000 Germans before they surrendered in WWII.

Has Hamas surrendered? Are they still holding hostages? No, and yes, right?

To be clear: I'm 100% against what Israel is doing of late, but if you look at the US response in Afghanistan after we were hit on 9/11 in a similar manner to what Israelis suffered last October? We killed over 100k Afghanis because we were attacked by terrorists...and we had help doing this from Canada, Germany, France, Italy and others. We don't exactly have the high moral ground here, if you ask me. Our troops went house to house in Afghanistan for about 15 years, no? Lotsa civilian deaths.

War NEVER makes sense if you even take a single step back. And these numbers are NUTSO, I agree. I wish NONE of this happened.

Speaking of Afghanistan….

https://www.usip.org/publications/2022/ ... tter-peace

[jhu72]

Didn't see the Oscars, but it seems an interesting question was raised by two Jewish film makers. Well the Jewish community's response to two of their own actually raises the question. We all know that the holocaust took 6 million + Jewish lives. This fact is always used by the Jewish community in responding to questions of why it is ok for Israel to kill more than 30,000 Palestinians, more than 50% who are women and children as an answer to the death of less than 1500 Israelis. So I and I am sure many millions of other humans would love to know the answer to the question when does the Jewish community feel they will have killed enough innocent Palestinian civilians. Will 60,000 be enough? 1,000,000, 6,000,000?? When does Israel's right to kill innocent Palestinians justified by the Holocaust reach a limit. What is the limit (number)?

Depends your perspective, I guess. We killed around 7,000,000 Germans before they surrendered in WWII.

Has Hamas surrendered? Are they still holding hostages? No, and yes, right?

To be clear: I'm 100% against what Israel is doing of late, but if you look at the US response in Afghanistan after we were hit on 9/11 in a similar manner to what Israelis suffered last October? We killed over 100k Afghanis because we were attacked by terrorists...and we had help doing this from Canada, Germany, France, Italy and others. We don't exactly have the high moral ground here, if you ask me. Our troops went house to house in Afghanistan for about 15 years, no? Lotsa civilian deaths.

War NEVER makes sense if you even take a single step back. And these numbers are NUTSO, I agree. I wish NONE of this happened.

You miss my point totally.

You did not address my question, why Israel's line of reasoning? It is always the same: "the Holocaust we suffered". That is meant as an explanation of why what they are doing should be given a pass. The Jewish speakers at the Oscars made the "Not in our name" argument! They were then demonized by conservatives in general, the Israel supportive media in particular. So I ask the question again, how far do the Israelis think this line of "reasoning" should extend??

There are hundreds of thousands of Jews (perhaps a million) that espouse the "Not in our name" perspective.

[a fan]

Didn't see the Oscars, but it seems an interesting question was raised by two Jewish film makers. Well the Jewish community's response to two of their own actually raises the question. We all know that the holocaust took 6 million + Jewish lives. This fact is always used by the Jewish community in responding to questions of why it is ok for Israel to kill more than 30,000 Palestinians, more than 50% who are women and children as an answer to the death of less than 1500 Israelis. So I and I am sure many millions of other humans would love to know the answer to the question when does the Jewish community feel they will have killed enough innocent Palestinian civilians. Will 60,000 be enough? 1,000,000, 6,000,000?? When does Israel's right to kill innocent Palestinians justified by the Holocaust reach a limit. What is the limit (number)?

Depends your perspective, I guess. We killed around 7,000,000 Germans before they surrendered in WWII.

Has Hamas surrendered? Are they still holding hostages? No, and yes, right?

To be clear: I'm 100% against what Israel is doing of late, but if you look at the US response in Afghanistan after we were hit on 9/11 in a similar manner to what Israelis suffered last October? We killed over 100k Afghanis because we were attacked by terrorists...and we had help doing this from Canada, Germany, France, Italy and others. We don't exactly have the high moral ground here, if you ask me. Our troops went house to house in Afghanistan for about 15 years, no? Lotsa civilian deaths.

War NEVER makes sense if you even take a single step back. And these numbers are NUTSO, I agree. I wish NONE of this happened.

You miss my point totally.

No. I didn't. Not even a little.

To MY point: where the F was this concern for civilian casualties as the largest army the world has ever seen was pounding the sh(t out of Afghanistan, killing, by most accounts, 70,000+ innocent people.

And no one used the "what about Holocaust" excuse because no one gave a sh9t about Afghani civiilians.

No protests. No hip liberals demanding that the US and the UK, Canada, France, et. al stop killing innocent civilians.

Do you have an answer for that?

Yeah, I don't either.

So I'm having a hard time understanding why the world gave THAT a pass.....for well over a decade AFTER we killed Osama Bin L, and there was no freaking reason to keep killing. And yet they're mad about Israel doing the same freaking thing.

I'm angry about BOTH.

As for what Israeli's line of reasoning is? I can't even tell you what America's 'line of reasoning was" to stay in Afghanistan, slaughtering civilians......let alone Israel's is.

Ask them. I'm an American who's LIVID that we keep waging war in the ME for no freaking reason.

[a fan]

Didn't see the Oscars, but it seems an interesting question was raised by two Jewish film makers. Well the Jewish community's response to two of their own actually raises the question. We all know that the holocaust took 6 million + Jewish lives. This fact is always used by the Jewish community in responding to questions of why it is ok for Israel to kill more than 30,000 Palestinians, more than 50% who are women and children as an answer to the death of less than 1500 Israelis. So I and I am sure many millions of other humans would love to know the answer to the question when does the Jewish community feel they will have killed enough innocent Palestinian civilians. Will 60,000 be enough? 1,000,000, 6,000,000?? When does Israel's right to kill innocent Palestinians justified by the Holocaust reach a limit. What is the limit (number)?

Depends your perspective, I guess. We killed around 7,000,000 Germans before they surrendered in WWII.

Has Hamas surrendered? Are they still holding hostages? No, and yes, right?

To be clear: I'm 100% against what Israel is doing of late, but if you look at the US response in Afghanistan after we were hit on 9/11 in a similar manner to what Israelis suffered last October? We killed over 100k Afghanis because we were attacked by terrorists...and we had help doing this from Canada, Germany, France, Italy and others. We don't exactly have the high moral ground here, if you ask me. Our troops went house to house in Afghanistan for about 15 years, no? Lotsa civilian deaths.

War NEVER makes sense if you even take a single step back. And these numbers are NUTSO, I agree. I wish NONE of this happened.

I’m tired of the rationalizations. This is equally abhorrent behavior. Reminds me if the stupid wannabe-JDL shite I heard in the ‘80s at Penn.

Knock it the fcuk off or you are on your own.

Everyone is free to do what they want, but they are guaranteed nothing if they do.

Ya got it backwards, mate. Where was this concern for innocent civilians when our country was pounding Afghanistan civilians to pulp?

And not just for a matter of months, which is where we are now...but well over a Decade AFTER we killed OBL, which was SUPPOSED to be our mission over there. Where were the international protests, my man?

They were nowhere to be found.

And what I'm telling you is: A. I condemn BOTH what the Israelis are doing now, and what America, UK, et. al. did in Afghanistan after we got OBL.

And B. Americans have NO FREAKING STANDING to tell ANYONE about needless war and civilian deaths. FFS man, we invaded Iraq to avoid paying a few more cents at the pump. Our record of needlessly killing civilians for no freaking reason is the WORST record in the modern era.

How about we close all our bases in the ME before we lecture others about civilian deaths. Or how about we just shut down our drone program? How many civilians and "whoopsies, hit the wrong target" have we done JUST with our Drone Program.

Get it?

[PizzaSnake]

Didn't see the Oscars, but it seems an interesting question was raised by two Jewish film makers. Well the Jewish community's response to two of their own actually raises the question. We all know that the holocaust took 6 million + Jewish lives. This fact is always used by the Jewish community in responding to questions of why it is ok for Israel to kill more than 30,000 Palestinians, more than 50% who are women and children as an answer to the death of less than 1500 Israelis. So I and I am sure many millions of other humans would love to know the answer to the question when does the Jewish community feel they will have killed enough innocent Palestinian civilians. Will 60,000 be enough? 1,000,000, 6,000,000?? When does Israel's right to kill innocent Palestinians justified by the Holocaust reach a limit. What is the limit (number)?

Depends your perspective, I guess. We killed around 7,000,000 Germans before they surrendered in WWII.

Has Hamas surrendered? Are they still holding hostages? No, and yes, right?

To be clear: I'm 100% against what Israel is doing of late, but if you look at the US response in Afghanistan after we were hit on 9/11 in a similar manner to what Israelis suffered last October? We killed over 100k Afghanis because we were attacked by terrorists...and we had help doing this from Canada, Germany, France, Italy and others. We don't exactly have the high moral ground here, if you ask me. Our troops went house to house in Afghanistan for about 15 years, no? Lotsa civilian deaths.

War NEVER makes sense if you even take a single step back. And these numbers are NUTSO, I agree. I wish NONE of this happened.

I’m tired of the rationalizations. This is equally abhorrent behavior. Reminds me if the stupid wannabe-JDL shite I heard in the ‘80s at Penn.

Knock it the fcuk off or you are on your own.

Everyone is free to do what they want, but they are guaranteed nothing if they do.

Ya got it backwards, mate. Where was this concern for innocent civilians when our country was pounding Afghanistan civilians to pulp?

And not just for a matter of months, which is where we are now...but well over a Decade AFTER we killed OBL, which was SUPPOSED to be our mission over there. Where were the international protests, my man?

They were nowhere to be found.

And what I'm telling you is: A. I condemn BOTH what the Israelis are doing now, and what America, UK, et. al. did in Afghanistan after we got OBL.

And B. Americans have NO FREAKING STANDING to tell ANYONE about needless war and civilian deaths. FFS man, we invaded Iraq to avoid paying a few more cents at the pump. Our record of needlessly killing civilians for no freaking reason is the WORST record in the modern era.

How about we close all our bases in the ME before we lecture others about civilian deaths. Or how about we just shut down our drone program? How many civilians and "whoopsies, hit the wrong target" have we done JUST with our Drone Program.

Get it?

Nope. Just as I don’t hold individual Israelis responsible fir the actions of their government, I will not be held responsible for the excesses of mine.

That and limitation due to past crimes would result in no condemnation and accountability by anyone, ever, anywhere.

[cradleandshoot]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

[youthathletics]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

Its rather hard to kill a cancer, but you must try.

[PizzaSnake]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

Its rather hard to kill a cancer, but you must try.

Cancer? The Palestinians are people. You want to eradicate them?

Once again you reveal your true inhumanity.

[runrussellrun]

Cancer? The Palestinians are people. You want to eradicate them?

Once again you reveal your true inhumanity.

[/quote]

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE


both sides are stupid, fighting over pretend "gods" and fairytales.

not sure how a religion, morphs into a "race".

Sure, Sammy Davis Jr. looks like Natalie Portman.......who is single

[cradleandshoot]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

Its rather hard to kill a cancer, but you must try.

Nobody likes the chemotherapy that Israel is using to kill that cancer.

[youthathletics]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

Its rather hard to kill a cancer, but you must try.

Cancer? The Palestinians are people. You want to eradicate them?

Once again you reveal your true inhumanity.

Hamas, not Palestinians. ....you can apologize now.

[cradleandshoot]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

Its rather hard to kill a cancer, but you must try.

Cancer? The Palestinians are people. You want to eradicate them?

Once again you reveal your true inhumanity.

The Palestinians that rabidly support the Hamas terrorists are a cancer. There is no difference between them and the German citizens who supported Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They both play dumb and stupid claiming to have no knowledge of what their leaders were doing. The Palestinian people as a whole are responsible for the carnage being laid upon them. Simple solution here, the realistic option is UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER by Hamas. They throw down all their weapons and become POWs. As long as Hamas wants to keep up the war they started then the killing will continue unabated. That is what they want in reality. Still no outrage at Hamas using Palestinian children as human shields?? Imagine that happening on this forum?

[Kismet]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

Its rather hard to kill a cancer, but you must try.

Cancer? The Palestinians are people. You want to eradicate them?

Once again you reveal your true inhumanity.

The Palestinians that rabidly support the Hamas terrorists are a cancer. There is no difference between them and the German citizens who supported Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They both play dumb and stupid claiming to have no knowledge of what their leaders were doing. The Palestinian people as a whole are responsible for the carnage being laid upon them. Simple solution here, the realistic option is UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER by Hamas. They throw down all their weapons and become POWs. As long as Hamas wants to keep up the war they started then the killing will continue unabated. That is what they want in reality. Still no outrage at Hamas using Palestinian children as human shields?? Imagine that happening on this forum?

Extremely wishful thinking. Hamas is never going to surrender let alone unconditionally.

[cradleandshoot]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

Its rather hard to kill a cancer, but you must try.

Cancer? The Palestinians are people. You want to eradicate them?

Once again you reveal your true inhumanity.

The Palestinians that rabidly support the Hamas terrorists are a cancer. There is no difference between them and the German citizens who supported Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They both play dumb and stupid claiming to have no knowledge of what their leaders were doing. The Palestinian people as a whole are responsible for the carnage being laid upon them. Simple solution here, the realistic option is UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER by Hamas. They throw down all their weapons and become POWs. As long as Hamas wants to keep up the war they started then the killing will continue unabated. That is what they want in reality. Still no outrage at Hamas using Palestinian children as human shields?? Imagine that happening on this forum?

Extremely wishful thinking. Hamas is never going to surrender let alone unconditionally.

You think I don't already know that?? They have to make a decision about what to do about Gaza? Israel has already made their decision. War was declared on them by the Hamas representatives of the Palestinian people. The question that I don't see being asked is.." why did Hamas choose this course of action? It makes no logical sense for anyone struggling with logic. This raid was planned in great detail for a long time. IMO that timing is important for a reason. FTR, no I don't know what that reason is. If I had to take a guess... It was the expected reaction from Israel.

[PizzaSnake]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

Its rather hard to kill a cancer, but you must try.

Cancer? The Palestinians are people. You want to eradicate them?

Once again you reveal your true inhumanity.

The Palestinians that rabidly support the Hamas terrorists are a cancer. There is no difference between them and the German citizens who supported Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They both play dumb and stupid claiming to have no knowledge of what their leaders were doing. The Palestinian people as a whole are responsible for the carnage being laid upon them. Simple solution here, the realistic option is UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER by Hamas. They throw down all their weapons and become POWs. As long as Hamas wants to keep up the war they started then the killing will continue unabated. That is what they want in reality. Still no outrage at Hamas using Palestinian children as human shields?? Imagine that happening on this forum?

Extremely wishful thinking. Hamas is never going to surrender let alone unconditionally.

You think I don't already know that?? They have to make a decision about what to do about Gaza? Israel has already made their decision. War was declared on them by the Hamas representatives of the Palestinian people. The question that I don't see being asked is.." why did Hamas choose this course of action? It makes no logical sense for anyone struggling with logic. This raid was planned in great detail for a long time. IMO that timing is important for a reason. FTR, no I don't know what that reason is. If I had to take a guess... It was the expected reaction from Israel.

Not so sure they “represent” in the usual and customary parlance. No elections since 2006. Many if not all of the children were not born, so ascribing that attribute to Hamas is questionable.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

Its rather hard to kill a cancer, but you must try.

Cancer? The Palestinians are people. You want to eradicate them?

Once again you reveal your true inhumanity.

The Palestinians that rabidly support the Hamas terrorists are a cancer. There is no difference between them and the German citizens who supported Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They both play dumb and stupid claiming to have no knowledge of what their leaders were doing. The Palestinian people as a whole are responsible for the carnage being laid upon them. Simple solution here, the realistic option is UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER by Hamas. They throw down all their weapons and become POWs. As long as Hamas wants to keep up the war they started then the killing will continue unabated. That is what they want in reality. Still no outrage at Hamas using Palestinian children as human shields?? Imagine that happening on this forum?

Extremely wishful thinking. Hamas is never going to surrender let alone unconditionally.

You think I don't already know that?? They have to make a decision about what to do about Gaza? Israel has already made their decision. War was declared on them by the Hamas representatives of the Palestinian people. The question that I don't see being asked is.." why did Hamas choose this course of action? It makes no logical sense for anyone struggling with logic. This raid was planned in great detail for a long time. IMO that timing is important for a reason. FTR, no I don't know what that reason is. If I had to take a guess... It was the expected reaction from Israel.

Not so sure they “represent” in the usual and customary parlance. No elections since 2006. Many if not all of the children were not born, so ascribing that attribute to Hamas is questionable.

You may be able to argue that nobody under the age of 35 is responsible for voting for Hamas.

[cradleandshoot]

I read a lot of criticism about how Israel is conducting this war that Hamas forced on them. Why haven't the people dishing out the criticism offered Israel some suggestions how you fight a war against Hamas. The Israeli objective is to wipe out Hamas and it's infrastructure as much as possible. Still no criticism as to why Hamas hides behind the Palestinian people? Still no suggestions how Israel should conduct this war. How do you fight a limited war against an enemy that declared war on you in a most brutal manner? You folks are all brilliant and highly educated. How do you all deal with an enemy that wants to wipe your country off the face of the earth?? Any suggestions people?

Its rather hard to kill a cancer, but you must try.

Cancer? The Palestinians are people. You want to eradicate them?

Once again you reveal your true inhumanity.

The Palestinians that rabidly support the Hamas terrorists are a cancer. There is no difference between them and the German citizens who supported Hitler and the 3rd Reich. They both play dumb and stupid claiming to have no knowledge of what their leaders were doing. The Palestinian people as a whole are responsible for the carnage being laid upon them. Simple solution here, the realistic option is UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER by Hamas. They throw down all their weapons and become POWs. As long as Hamas wants to keep up the war they started then the killing will continue unabated. That is what they want in reality. Still no outrage at Hamas using Palestinian children as human shields?? Imagine that happening on this forum?

Extremely wishful thinking. Hamas is never going to surrender let alone unconditionally.

You think I don't already know that?? They have to make a decision about what to do about Gaza? Israel has already made their decision. War was declared on them by the Hamas representatives of the Palestinian people. The question that I don't see being asked is.." why did Hamas choose this course of action? It makes no logical sense for anyone struggling with logic. This raid was planned in great detail for a long time. IMO that timing is important for a reason. FTR, no I don't know what that reason is. If I had to take a guess... It was the expected reaction from Israel.

Not so sure they “represent” in the usual and customary parlance. No elections since 2006. Many if not all of the children were not born, so ascribing that attribute to Hamas is questionable.

You may be able to argue that nobody under the age of 35 is responsible for voting for Hamas.

Yet it is fair to say that everybody under the age of 35 understands that Hamas is in charge of what goes on in Gaza.

An extension of this would be no one under the age of 100 will question the authority of Hamas to run Gaza as they so choose.

[jhu72]

Didn't see the Oscars, but it seems an interesting question was raised by two Jewish film makers. Well the Jewish community's response to two of their own actually raises the question. We all know that the holocaust took 6 million + Jewish lives. This fact is always used by the Jewish community in responding to questions of why it is ok for Israel to kill more than 30,000 Palestinians, more than 50% who are women and children as an answer to the death of less than 1500 Israelis. So I and I am sure many millions of other humans would love to know the answer to the question when does the Jewish community feel they will have killed enough innocent Palestinian civilians. Will 60,000 be enough? 1,000,000, 6,000,000?? When does Israel's right to kill innocent Palestinians justified by the Holocaust reach a limit. What is the limit (number)?

Depends your perspective, I guess. We killed around 7,000,000 Germans before they surrendered in WWII.

Has Hamas surrendered? Are they still holding hostages? No, and yes, right?

To be clear: I'm 100% against what Israel is doing of late, but if you look at the US response in Afghanistan after we were hit on 9/11 in a similar manner to what Israelis suffered last October? We killed over 100k Afghanis because we were attacked by terrorists...and we had help doing this from Canada, Germany, France, Italy and others. We don't exactly have the high moral ground here, if you ask me. Our troops went house to house in Afghanistan for about 15 years, no? Lotsa civilian deaths.

War NEVER makes sense if you even take a single step back. And these numbers are NUTSO, I agree. I wish NONE of this happened.

You miss my point totally.

No. I didn't. Not even a little.

To MY point: where the F was this concern for civilian casualties as the largest army the world has ever seen was pounding the sh(t out of Afghanistan, killing, by most accounts, 70,000+ innocent people.

And no one used the "what about Holocaust" excuse because no one gave a sh9t about Afghani civiilians.

No protests. No hip liberals demanding that the US and the UK, Canada, France, et. al stop killing innocent civilians.

Do you have an answer for that?

Yeah, I don't either.

So I'm having a hard time understanding why the world gave THAT a pass.....for well over a decade AFTER we killed Osama Bin L, and there was no freaking reason to keep killing. And yet they're mad about Israel doing the same freaking thing.

I'm angry about BOTH.

As for what Israeli's line of reasoning is? I can't even tell you what America's 'line of reasoning was" to stay in Afghanistan, slaughtering civilians......let alone Israel's is.

Ask them. I'm an American who's LIVID that we keep waging war in the ME for no freaking reason.

... I'm sorry, you must have missed where I complained about the carnage in Afghanistan. I will admit I didn't complain as vehemently as I have over the killing in Gaza. There is a huge difference in numbers in how the US went about it. The deaths in Afghan over the 20 years were as follows:

Civilians (total) = 46,000 and change
Afghan Military = 69,000 and change
Taliban = 53,000 and change

The civil deaths were caused by both the Taliban and the coalition troops. The deaths attributed to Taliban and coalition troops varied by month and year. The Taliban were responsible for 60% to 80% varying by weeks. I have not done the average based on the raw data, but lets say the Talban were across the 20 years responsible for 70%, that means the coalition forces were responsible for 30% or 690 deaths per year or 58 per month.

If you believe Hamas is responsible for 70% of the Palestinian deaths (which I DON'T), the Israeli's are killing 1800 per month. I believe the number is likely lower than 20% are Hamas caused deaths, which means Israel is killing 4800 per month. In either case it is unacceptable. The goal of the current Israeli government is to totally clear Gaza of Palestinians civilians. You don't drop 1000 lb and 2000 lb bombs on a population with the density of Gaza and claim you are trying to avoid civilian casualties and just hit Hamas. Dropping bombs that size it is impossible to discriminate. By the way, those bombs of that size were not precision guided.

Israel needs to start behaving more responsibly, and that is not going to happen as long as Bibi and his fascist buddies are running the show.