Israel and Zionism

[a fan]

\What I don't understand is your vitriol and obduracy regarding the obvious crimes of the IDF and the Israeli government. Are you familiar with the Geneva Convention and the duties the Israelis have to non-combatants? You know, no killing them or starving them or denying medical care. Little things like that.

I think you're confusing me with another poster.

The ONLY vitriol I have is to three groups: Hamas. The far right in Israel, including Bibi, doing things like adding settlements and hammering defenseless civilians knowing full well what that does to prospects of peace. And the blind pro-Palestian nutjobs who want the Jewish people out of the entire region.

As for annoyance? I'm annoyed at any person or group that refuses to acknowledge or mention the horrible things that "the other side" have done.

Things like railing at Israel for killing folks or starving and violating the Geneva Convention without owning up to the fact that Palestinians violated, and are continuing to violate the living sh(t out of the Geneva Convention by slaughtering 1200 civilians and children, and holding hundreds hostage, and starving and torturing and raping and killing hostages along the way.

Both sides are prolonging this mess for WAY the F longer than needed.

Hamas killing 1,200 innocent people is awful. Not sure anyone has ignored it.

Do you see any protests anywhere that stands up to Hamas? Or the holding of hostages? Outside of counter protests, I'm unaware of any. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone is demanding that Israel stop with the violence, and I agree with that.

But I haven't seen anyone demonstrating to demand that Hamas release the 130 hostages they still hold, or to surrender power to the Palestinian people. If you're Jewish...what message does that send? I've said it before: I understand on a logical level why the Israelis have stopped listening to anyone. I don't agree with their choices, but we're basically telling them that their people don't matter, and THEY are the SOLE problem here.

In most conflicts there is a concept of proportionality. I am not sure if the response has exceeded what is considered proportional.

Pretty easy to argue that they are looking for hostages. That said, I believe what Israel is doing is disproportional, and over the top, and is exactly what Hamas wanted.

Hamas is smart enough to understand that their days in the headlines are numbered. Which tells me that they don't REALLY care about any of this....it's about fleecing people of money and power, and that's it.

Also, Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinian people. It’s a terrorist organization that cares no more about Palestinians than it does Jews unless they are sympathetic to their ideology. No “Palestinian” under the age of 35 voted for Hamas to “represent them” and those that did only accounted for 44% of the vote.

You're not wrong. But the obvious problem here is: if Hamas doesn't rep Palestine.....who does?

Many people protesting are doing so because Israel pretty much meets the definition of an Apartheid State. A good friend of mine does a lot of work with Save The Children and first got involved about 10 years ago when he started taking trips to the region. He said for years he never realized how bad it was and it reminded him of South Africa.

Yes, but this leaves out the "why". South Africa behaved the way they did because they're a bunch of racist wankers.

Israel behaves this way because of non-stop attacks and terrorism. What would have happened if Palestinians behaved the same way every country in the world does after losing a war over territory? Borders and lands have exchanged hands since before the written word showed up. Yet this is the only place on Earth where the reaction to losing a war, is to wage a terrorist war for what's closing in on 100 years.

The saddest part of this whole thing is that had the Palestinians chosen peace decades ago? There wouldn't be one single fence, and zero restricted movement, and Muslims would have a far bigger voice in Israeli government (they already have Judges), and they've be free to go and live anywhere they wanted.

Instead? We get this mess.

Picture what this would look like if the Native Inhabitants of Canada, America, and Australia had done what Palestinians have done for the last several decades. How do you suppose we'd react? Or heck, picture any group on Earth that's po'ed about redrawn borders from just WWII....waging a terrorist war for 70 years because they're mad that they "lost their country".

As Americans, we already relegate the folks we conquered to sh9tty piece of land throughout America. We hardly have the high ground here.

Many people in Israel are protesting. I am pretty sure they are not ignoring the 1,200 Israeli citizens slaughtered.

That's Israel. What about everywhere else? And what message does that send?

[Typical Lax Dad]

\What I don't understand is your vitriol and obduracy regarding the obvious crimes of the IDF and the Israeli government. Are you familiar with the Geneva Convention and the duties the Israelis have to non-combatants? You know, no killing them or starving them or denying medical care. Little things like that.

I think you're confusing me with another poster.

The ONLY vitriol I have is to three groups: Hamas. The far right in Israel, including Bibi, doing things like adding settlements and hammering defenseless civilians knowing full well what that does to prospects of peace. And the blind pro-Palestian nutjobs who want the Jewish people out of the entire region.

As for annoyance? I'm annoyed at any person or group that refuses to acknowledge or mention the horrible things that "the other side" have done.

Things like railing at Israel for killing folks or starving and violating the Geneva Convention without owning up to the fact that Palestinians violated, and are continuing to violate the living sh(t out of the Geneva Convention by slaughtering 1200 civilians and children, and holding hundreds hostage, and starving and torturing and raping and killing hostages along the way.

Both sides are prolonging this mess for WAY the F longer than needed.

Hamas killing 1,200 innocent people is awful. Not sure anyone has ignored it.

Do you see any protests anywhere that stands up to Hamas? Or the holding of hostages? Outside of counter protests, I'm unaware of any. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone is demanding that Israel stop with the violence, and I agree with that.

But I haven't seen anyone demonstrating to demand that Hamas release the 130 hostages they still hold, or to surrender power to the Palestinian people. If you're Jewish...what message does that send? I've said it before: I understand on a logical level why the Israelis have stopped listening to anyone. I don't agree with their choices, but we're basically telling them that their people don't matter, and THEY are the SOLE problem here.

In most conflicts there is a concept of proportionality. I am not sure if the response has exceeded what is considered proportional.

Pretty easy to argue that they are looking for hostages. That said, I believe what Israel is doing is disproportional, and over the top, and is exactly what Hamas wanted.

Hamas is smart enough to understand that their days in the headlines are numbered. Which tells me that they don't REALLY care about any of this....it's about fleecing people of money and power, and that's it.

Also, Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinian people. It’s a terrorist organization that cares no more about Palestinians than it does Jews unless they are sympathetic to their ideology. No “Palestinian” under the age of 35 voted for Hamas to “represent them” and those that did only accounted for 44% of the vote.

You're not wrong. But the obvious problem here is: if Hamas doesn't rep Palestine.....who does?

Many people protesting are doing so because Israel pretty much meets the definition of an Apartheid State. A good friend of mine does a lot of work with Save The Children and first got involved about 10 years ago when he started taking trips to the region. He said for years he never realized how bad it was and it reminded him of South Africa.

Yes, but this leaves out the "why". South Africa behaved the way they did because they're a bunch of racist wankers.

Israel behaves this way because of non-stop attacks and terrorism. What would have happened if Palestinians behaved the same way every country in the world does after losing a war over territory? Borders and lands have exchanged hands since before the written word showed up. Yet this is the only place on Earth where the reaction to losing a war, is to wage a terrorist war for what's closing in on 100 years.

The saddest part of this whole thing is that had the Palestinians chosen peace decades ago? There wouldn't be one single fence, and zero restricted movement, and Muslims would have a far bigger voice in Israeli government (they already have Judges), and they've be free to go and live anywhere they wanted.

Instead? We get this mess.

Picture what this would look like if the Native Inhabitants of Canada, America, and Australia had done what Palestinians have done for the last several decades. How do you suppose we'd react? Or heck, picture any group on Earth that's po'ed about redrawn borders from just WWII....waging a terrorist war for 70 years because they're mad that they "lost their country".

As Americans, we already relegate the folks we conquered to sh9tty piece of land throughout America. We hardly have the high ground here.

Many people in Israel are protesting. I am pretty sure they are not ignoring the 1,200 Israeli citizens slaughtered.

That's Israel. What about everywhere else? And what message does that send?

It’s all the same. I wonder what the body count is on each side since 1948? Iran launched missiles, Israel had a proportional response. I pointed out Israel as they have more standing than anyone else. Imagine someone from Brooklyn taking your land? You know what it is similar to? My buddy lives in Minerva Park Ohio…..outside Columbus. In his deed, you can see the history….the property was originally given away for clearing the land from Natives. These “settlements” are what we call Subdivisions here. It’s all silly. I don’t have the right answer. All I know is right is right and wrong is wrong. I don’t think people “protested” the world trade center bombings either. Maybe students should have called for divestment from Hamas. I don’t believe it’s because people were indifferent or sympathetic. Some things are so atrocious that it speaks for itself. Like Isis and Al Qaeda, Hamas is a terrorist organization and not a Sovereign State. Israel has the right to defend itself. Not debating that. But I suppose a good offense is the best defense.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Nothing wrong here. Hamas should not have started it.

[a fan]

\What I don't understand is your vitriol and obduracy regarding the obvious crimes of the IDF and the Israeli government. Are you familiar with the Geneva Convention and the duties the Israelis have to non-combatants? You know, no killing them or starving them or denying medical care. Little things like that.

I think you're confusing me with another poster.

The ONLY vitriol I have is to three groups: Hamas. The far right in Israel, including Bibi, doing things like adding settlements and hammering defenseless civilians knowing full well what that does to prospects of peace. And the blind pro-Palestian nutjobs who want the Jewish people out of the entire region.

As for annoyance? I'm annoyed at any person or group that refuses to acknowledge or mention the horrible things that "the other side" have done.

Things like railing at Israel for killing folks or starving and violating the Geneva Convention without owning up to the fact that Palestinians violated, and are continuing to violate the living sh(t out of the Geneva Convention by slaughtering 1200 civilians and children, and holding hundreds hostage, and starving and torturing and raping and killing hostages along the way.

Both sides are prolonging this mess for WAY the F longer than needed.

Hamas killing 1,200 innocent people is awful. Not sure anyone has ignored it.

Do you see any protests anywhere that stands up to Hamas? Or the holding of hostages? Outside of counter protests, I'm unaware of any. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone is demanding that Israel stop with the violence, and I agree with that.

But I haven't seen anyone demonstrating to demand that Hamas release the 130 hostages they still hold, or to surrender power to the Palestinian people. If you're Jewish...what message does that send? I've said it before: I understand on a logical level why the Israelis have stopped listening to anyone. I don't agree with their choices, but we're basically telling them that their people don't matter, and THEY are the SOLE problem here.

In most conflicts there is a concept of proportionality. I am not sure if the response has exceeded what is considered proportional.

Pretty easy to argue that they are looking for hostages. That said, I believe what Israel is doing is disproportional, and over the top, and is exactly what Hamas wanted.

Hamas is smart enough to understand that their days in the headlines are numbered. Which tells me that they don't REALLY care about any of this....it's about fleecing people of money and power, and that's it.

Also, Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinian people. It’s a terrorist organization that cares no more about Palestinians than it does Jews unless they are sympathetic to their ideology. No “Palestinian” under the age of 35 voted for Hamas to “represent them” and those that did only accounted for 44% of the vote.

You're not wrong. But the obvious problem here is: if Hamas doesn't rep Palestine.....who does?

Many people protesting are doing so because Israel pretty much meets the definition of an Apartheid State. A good friend of mine does a lot of work with Save The Children and first got involved about 10 years ago when he started taking trips to the region. He said for years he never realized how bad it was and it reminded him of South Africa.

Yes, but this leaves out the "why". South Africa behaved the way they did because they're a bunch of racist wankers.

Israel behaves this way because of non-stop attacks and terrorism. What would have happened if Palestinians behaved the same way every country in the world does after losing a war over territory? Borders and lands have exchanged hands since before the written word showed up. Yet this is the only place on Earth where the reaction to losing a war, is to wage a terrorist war for what's closing in on 100 years.

The saddest part of this whole thing is that had the Palestinians chosen peace decades ago? There wouldn't be one single fence, and zero restricted movement, and Muslims would have a far bigger voice in Israeli government (they already have Judges), and they've be free to go and live anywhere they wanted.

Instead? We get this mess.

Picture what this would look like if the Native Inhabitants of Canada, America, and Australia had done what Palestinians have done for the last several decades. How do you suppose we'd react? Or heck, picture any group on Earth that's po'ed about redrawn borders from just WWII....waging a terrorist war for 70 years because they're mad that they "lost their country".

As Americans, we already relegate the folks we conquered to sh9tty piece of land throughout America. We hardly have the high ground here.

Many people in Israel are protesting. I am pretty sure they are not ignoring the 1,200 Israeli citizens slaughtered.

That's Israel. What about everywhere else? And what message does that send?

It’s all the same. I wonder what the body count is on each side since 1948? Iran launched missiles, Israel had a proportional response. I pointed out Israel as they have more standing than anyone else. Imagine someone from Brooklyn taking your land? You know what it is similar to? My buddy lives in Minerva Park Ohio…..outside Columbus. In his deed, you can see the history….the property was originally given away for clearing the land from Natives. These “settlements” are what we call Subdivisions here. It’s all silly. I don’t have the right answer. All I know is right is right and wrong is wrong. I don’t think people “protested” the world trade center bombings either. Maybe students should have called for divestment from Hamas. I don’t believe it’s because people were indifferent or sympathetic. Some things are so atrocious that it speaks for itself. Like Isis and Al Qaeda, Hamas is a terrorist organization and not a Sovereign State. Israel has the right to defend itself. Not debating that. But I suppose a good offense is the best defense.

I don't have the right answer, either. Best I can come up with is to have a coalition of Arab, EU, US to run and govern Palestine, and pump money in to build industries and make it an education/training and job center. That's all I got.

[Typical Lax Dad]

\What I don't understand is your vitriol and obduracy regarding the obvious crimes of the IDF and the Israeli government. Are you familiar with the Geneva Convention and the duties the Israelis have to non-combatants? You know, no killing them or starving them or denying medical care. Little things like that.

I think you're confusing me with another poster.

The ONLY vitriol I have is to three groups: Hamas. The far right in Israel, including Bibi, doing things like adding settlements and hammering defenseless civilians knowing full well what that does to prospects of peace. And the blind pro-Palestian nutjobs who want the Jewish people out of the entire region.

As for annoyance? I'm annoyed at any person or group that refuses to acknowledge or mention the horrible things that "the other side" have done.

Things like railing at Israel for killing folks or starving and violating the Geneva Convention without owning up to the fact that Palestinians violated, and are continuing to violate the living sh(t out of the Geneva Convention by slaughtering 1200 civilians and children, and holding hundreds hostage, and starving and torturing and raping and killing hostages along the way.

Both sides are prolonging this mess for WAY the F longer than needed.

Hamas killing 1,200 innocent people is awful. Not sure anyone has ignored it.

Do you see any protests anywhere that stands up to Hamas? Or the holding of hostages? Outside of counter protests, I'm unaware of any. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone is demanding that Israel stop with the violence, and I agree with that.

But I haven't seen anyone demonstrating to demand that Hamas release the 130 hostages they still hold, or to surrender power to the Palestinian people. If you're Jewish...what message does that send? I've said it before: I understand on a logical level why the Israelis have stopped listening to anyone. I don't agree with their choices, but we're basically telling them that their people don't matter, and THEY are the SOLE problem here.

In most conflicts there is a concept of proportionality. I am not sure if the response has exceeded what is considered proportional.

Pretty easy to argue that they are looking for hostages. That said, I believe what Israel is doing is disproportional, and over the top, and is exactly what Hamas wanted.

Hamas is smart enough to understand that their days in the headlines are numbered. Which tells me that they don't REALLY care about any of this....it's about fleecing people of money and power, and that's it.

Also, Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinian people. It’s a terrorist organization that cares no more about Palestinians than it does Jews unless they are sympathetic to their ideology. No “Palestinian” under the age of 35 voted for Hamas to “represent them” and those that did only accounted for 44% of the vote.

You're not wrong. But the obvious problem here is: if Hamas doesn't rep Palestine.....who does?

Many people protesting are doing so because Israel pretty much meets the definition of an Apartheid State. A good friend of mine does a lot of work with Save The Children and first got involved about 10 years ago when he started taking trips to the region. He said for years he never realized how bad it was and it reminded him of South Africa.

Yes, but this leaves out the "why". South Africa behaved the way they did because they're a bunch of racist wankers.

Israel behaves this way because of non-stop attacks and terrorism. What would have happened if Palestinians behaved the same way every country in the world does after losing a war over territory? Borders and lands have exchanged hands since before the written word showed up. Yet this is the only place on Earth where the reaction to losing a war, is to wage a terrorist war for what's closing in on 100 years.

The saddest part of this whole thing is that had the Palestinians chosen peace decades ago? There wouldn't be one single fence, and zero restricted movement, and Muslims would have a far bigger voice in Israeli government (they already have Judges), and they've be free to go and live anywhere they wanted.

Instead? We get this mess.

Picture what this would look like if the Native Inhabitants of Canada, America, and Australia had done what Palestinians have done for the last several decades. How do you suppose we'd react? Or heck, picture any group on Earth that's po'ed about redrawn borders from just WWII....waging a terrorist war for 70 years because they're mad that they "lost their country".

As Americans, we already relegate the folks we conquered to sh9tty piece of land throughout America. We hardly have the high ground here.

Many people in Israel are protesting. I am pretty sure they are not ignoring the 1,200 Israeli citizens slaughtered.

That's Israel. What about everywhere else? And what message does that send?

It’s all the same. I wonder what the body count is on each side since 1948? Iran launched missiles, Israel had a proportional response. I pointed out Israel as they have more standing than anyone else. Imagine someone from Brooklyn taking your land? You know what it is similar to? My buddy lives in Minerva Park Ohio…..outside Columbus. In his deed, you can see the history….the property was originally given away for clearing the land from Natives. These “settlements” are what we call Subdivisions here. It’s all silly. I don’t have the right answer. All I know is right is right and wrong is wrong. I don’t think people “protested” the world trade center bombings either. Maybe students should have called for divestment from Hamas. I don’t believe it’s because people were indifferent or sympathetic. Some things are so atrocious that it speaks for itself. Like Isis and Al Qaeda, Hamas is a terrorist organization and not a Sovereign State. Israel has the right to defend itself. Not debating that. But I suppose a good offense is the best defense.

I don't have the right answer, either. Best I can come up with is to have a coalition of Arab, EU, US to run and govern Palestine, and pump money in to build industries and make it an education/training and job center. That's all I got.

I had this conversation with a friend. We can have all those countries invest while letting those people govern themselves. Haven’t had elections in almost 20 years. I think it’s all very sad but we have picked a side. The Apartheid situation doesn’t help. Everyone has a “reason” for it. Pretty sure the South Africans felt they had a good reason for it to.

[cradleandshoot]

\What I don't understand is your vitriol and obduracy regarding the obvious crimes of the IDF and the Israeli government. Are you familiar with the Geneva Convention and the duties the Israelis have to non-combatants? You know, no killing them or starving them or denying medical care. Little things like that.

I think you're confusing me with another poster.

The ONLY vitriol I have is to three groups: Hamas. The far right in Israel, including Bibi, doing things like adding settlements and hammering defenseless civilians knowing full well what that does to prospects of peace. And the blind pro-Palestian nutjobs who want the Jewish people out of the entire region.

As for annoyance? I'm annoyed at any person or group that refuses to acknowledge or mention the horrible things that "the other side" have done.

Things like railing at Israel for killing folks or starving and violating the Geneva Convention without owning up to the fact that Palestinians violated, and are continuing to violate the living sh(t out of the Geneva Convention by slaughtering 1200 civilians and children, and holding hundreds hostage, and starving and torturing and raping and killing hostages along the way.

Both sides are prolonging this mess for WAY the F longer than needed.

Hamas killing 1,200 innocent people is awful. Not sure anyone has ignored it.

Do you see any protests anywhere that stands up to Hamas? Or the holding of hostages? Outside of counter protests, I'm unaware of any. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone is demanding that Israel stop with the violence, and I agree with that.

But I haven't seen anyone demonstrating to demand that Hamas release the 130 hostages they still hold, or to surrender power to the Palestinian people. If you're Jewish...what message does that send? I've said it before: I understand on a logical level why the Israelis have stopped listening to anyone. I don't agree with their choices, but we're basically telling them that their people don't matter, and THEY are the SOLE problem here.

In most conflicts there is a concept of proportionality. I am not sure if the response has exceeded what is considered proportional.

Pretty easy to argue that they are looking for hostages. That said, I believe what Israel is doing is disproportional, and over the top, and is exactly what Hamas wanted.

Hamas is smart enough to understand that their days in the headlines are numbered. Which tells me that they don't REALLY care about any of this....it's about fleecing people of money and power, and that's it.

Also, Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinian people. It’s a terrorist organization that cares no more about Palestinians than it does Jews unless they are sympathetic to their ideology. No “Palestinian” under the age of 35 voted for Hamas to “represent them” and those that did only accounted for 44% of the vote.

You're not wrong. But the obvious problem here is: if Hamas doesn't rep Palestine.....who does?

Many people protesting are doing so because Israel pretty much meets the definition of an Apartheid State. A good friend of mine does a lot of work with Save The Children and first got involved about 10 years ago when he started taking trips to the region. He said for years he never realized how bad it was and it reminded him of South Africa.

Yes, but this leaves out the "why". South Africa behaved the way they did because they're a bunch of racist wankers.

Israel behaves this way because of non-stop attacks and terrorism. What would have happened if Palestinians behaved the same way every country in the world does after losing a war over territory? Borders and lands have exchanged hands since before the written word showed up. Yet this is the only place on Earth where the reaction to losing a war, is to wage a terrorist war for what's closing in on 100 years.

The saddest part of this whole thing is that had the Palestinians chosen peace decades ago? There wouldn't be one single fence, and zero restricted movement, and Muslims would have a far bigger voice in Israeli government (they already have Judges), and they've be free to go and live anywhere they wanted.

Instead? We get this mess.

Picture what this would look like if the Native Inhabitants of Canada, America, and Australia had done what Palestinians have done for the last several decades. How do you suppose we'd react? Or heck, picture any group on Earth that's po'ed about redrawn borders from just WWII....waging a terrorist war for 70 years because they're mad that they "lost their country".

As Americans, we already relegate the folks we conquered to sh9tty piece of land throughout America. We hardly have the high ground here.

Many people in Israel are protesting. I am pretty sure they are not ignoring the 1,200 Israeli citizens slaughtered.

That's Israel. What about everywhere else? And what message does that send?

It’s all the same. I wonder what the body count is on each side since 1948? Iran launched missiles, Israel had a proportional response. I pointed out Israel as they have more standing than anyone else. Imagine someone from Brooklyn taking your land? You know what it is similar to? My buddy lives in Minerva Park Ohio…..outside Columbus. In his deed, you can see the history….the property was originally given away for clearing the land from Natives. These “settlements” are what we call Subdivisions here. It’s all silly. I don’t have the right answer. All I know is right is right and wrong is wrong. I don’t think people “protested” the world trade center bombings either. Maybe students should have called for divestment from Hamas. I don’t believe it’s because people were indifferent or sympathetic. Some things are so atrocious that it speaks for itself. Like Isis and Al Qaeda, Hamas is a terrorist organization and not a Sovereign State. Israel has the right to defend itself. Not debating that. But I suppose a good offense is the best defense.

I don't have the right answer, either. Best I can come up with is to have a coalition of Arab, EU, US to run and govern Palestine, and pump money in to build industries and make it an education/training and job center. That's all I got.

I had this conversation with a friend. We can have all those countries invest while letting those people govern themselves. Haven’t had elections in almost 20 years. I think it’s all very sad but we have picked a side. The Apartheid situation doesn’t help. Everyone has a “reason” for it. Pretty sure the South Africans felt they had a good reason for it to.

All good ideas. It will never be possible as long as Hamas calls the shots in Gaza. I hope that no one doubts the fact that Hamas is in charge of Gaza for better or worse.

[a fan]

I had this conversation with a friend. We can have all those countries invest while letting those people govern themselves.

We tried that....the funding was siphoned to Hamas, was it not? Even now, Hamas is stealing aid intended for the Palestinian people.

I don't see any reasonable country signing up for handing governing control to Hamas again, let alone Israel. We tried to let them govern themselves, and we got Hamas out of that. It sucks, but that's what happened. Someone has to make sure the money and aid actually goes to the Palestinians.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I had this conversation with a friend. We can have all those countries invest while letting those people govern themselves.

We tried that....the funding was siphoned to Hamas, was it not? Even now, Hamas is stealing aid intended for the Palestinian people.

I don't see any reasonable country signing up for handing governing control to Hamas again, let alone Israel. We tried to let them govern themselves, and we got Hamas out of that. It sucks, but that's what happened. Someone has to make sure the money and aid actually goes to the Palestinians.

75% of Gaza is under the age of 25. Hold a new election and continue to hunt down Hamas members. It has been done before. Looks like Netanyahu wants his own theocracy. That’s about the only rational conclusion I can draw. If it’s good for Iran it’s good for Israel seems to be the strategy.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... fff18a0000

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas ... 499fdbae02

Nine people are worth less than Hamas capabilities. It’s all outrageous

[a fan]

I had this conversation with a friend. We can have all those countries invest while letting those people govern themselves.

We tried that....the funding was siphoned to Hamas, was it not? Even now, Hamas is stealing aid intended for the Palestinian people.

I don't see any reasonable country signing up for handing governing control to Hamas again, let alone Israel. We tried to let them govern themselves, and we got Hamas out of that. It sucks, but that's what happened. Someone has to make sure the money and aid actually goes to the Palestinians.

75% of Gaza is under the age of 25. Hold a new election and continue to hunt down Hamas members. It has been done before. Looks like Netanyahu wants his own theocracy. That’s about the only rational conclusion I can draw. If it’s good for Iran it’s good for Israel seems to be the strategy.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... fff18a0000

It is what he wants. Which is why he must be removed. He's been making the situation worse for YEARS.

I like your optimism. I'm simply saying: I can't see Israel signing on for giving Palestine self-governance, and crossing their fingers, hoping the leaders aren't corrupt, and won't funnel money and aid to Hamas.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I had this conversation with a friend. We can have all those countries invest while letting those people govern themselves.

We tried that....the funding was siphoned to Hamas, was it not? Even now, Hamas is stealing aid intended for the Palestinian people.

I don't see any reasonable country signing up for handing governing control to Hamas again, let alone Israel. We tried to let them govern themselves, and we got Hamas out of that. It sucks, but that's what happened. Someone has to make sure the money and aid actually goes to the Palestinians.

75% of Gaza is under the age of 25. Hold a new election and continue to hunt down Hamas members. It has been done before. Looks like Netanyahu wants his own theocracy. That’s about the only rational conclusion I can draw. If it’s good for Iran it’s good for Israel seems to be the strategy.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... fff18a0000

It is what he wants. Which is why he must be removed. He's been making the situation worse for YEARS.

I like your optimism. I'm simply saying: I can't see Israel signing on for giving Palestine self-governance, and crossing their fingers, hoping the leaders aren't corrupt, and won't funnel money and aid to Hamas.

I can’t see it either with the current government.

[PizzaSnake]

\What I don't understand is your vitriol and obduracy regarding the obvious crimes of the IDF and the Israeli government. Are you familiar with the Geneva Convention and the duties the Israelis have to non-combatants? You know, no killing them or starving them or denying medical care. Little things like that.

I think you're confusing me with another poster.

The ONLY vitriol I have is to three groups: Hamas. The far right in Israel, including Bibi, doing things like adding settlements and hammering defenseless civilians knowing full well what that does to prospects of peace. And the blind pro-Palestian nutjobs who want the Jewish people out of the entire region.

As for annoyance? I'm annoyed at any person or group that refuses to acknowledge or mention the horrible things that "the other side" have done.

Things like railing at Israel for killing folks or starving and violating the Geneva Convention without owning up to the fact that Palestinians violated, and are continuing to violate the living sh(t out of the Geneva Convention by slaughtering 1200 civilians and children, and holding hundreds hostage, and starving and torturing and raping and killing hostages along the way.

Both sides are prolonging this mess for WAY the F longer than needed.

Hamas killing 1,200 innocent people is awful. Not sure anyone has ignored it.

Do you see any protests anywhere that stands up to Hamas? Or the holding of hostages? Outside of counter protests, I'm unaware of any. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone is demanding that Israel stop with the violence, and I agree with that.

But I haven't seen anyone demonstrating to demand that Hamas release the 130 hostages they still hold, or to surrender power to the Palestinian people. If you're Jewish...what message does that send? I've said it before: I understand on a logical level why the Israelis have stopped listening to anyone. I don't agree with their choices, but we're basically telling them that their people don't matter, and THEY are the SOLE problem here.

In most conflicts there is a concept of proportionality. I am not sure if the response has exceeded what is considered proportional.

Pretty easy to argue that they are looking for hostages. That said, I believe what Israel is doing is disproportional, and over the top, and is exactly what Hamas wanted.

Hamas is smart enough to understand that their days in the headlines are numbered. Which tells me that they don't REALLY care about any of this....it's about fleecing people of money and power, and that's it.

Also, Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinian people. It’s a terrorist organization that cares no more about Palestinians than it does Jews unless they are sympathetic to their ideology. No “Palestinian” under the age of 35 voted for Hamas to “represent them” and those that did only accounted for 44% of the vote.

You're not wrong. But the obvious problem here is: if Hamas doesn't rep Palestine.....who does?

Many people protesting are doing so because Israel pretty much meets the definition of an Apartheid State. A good friend of mine does a lot of work with Save The Children and first got involved about 10 years ago when he started taking trips to the region. He said for years he never realized how bad it was and it reminded him of South Africa.

Yes, but this leaves out the "why". South Africa behaved the way they did because they're a bunch of racist wankers.

Israel behaves this way because of non-stop attacks and terrorism. What would have happened if Palestinians behaved the same way every country in the world does after losing a war over territory? Borders and lands have exchanged hands since before the written word showed up. Yet this is the only place on Earth where the reaction to losing a war, is to wage a terrorist war for what's closing in on 100 years.

The saddest part of this whole thing is that had the Palestinians chosen peace decades ago? There wouldn't be one single fence, and zero restricted movement, and Muslims would have a far bigger voice in Israeli government (they already have Judges), and they've be free to go and live anywhere they wanted.

Instead? We get this mess.

Picture what this would look like if the Native Inhabitants of Canada, America, and Australia had done what Palestinians have done for the last several decades. How do you suppose we'd react? Or heck, picture any group on Earth that's po'ed about redrawn borders from just WWII....waging a terrorist war for 70 years because they're mad that they "lost their country".

As Americans, we already relegate the folks we conquered to sh9tty piece of land throughout America. We hardly have the high ground here.

Many people in Israel are protesting. I am pretty sure they are not ignoring the 1,200 Israeli citizens slaughtered.

That's Israel. What about everywhere else? And what message does that send?

It’s all the same. I wonder what the body count is on each side since 1948? Iran launched missiles, Israel had a proportional response. I pointed out Israel as they have more standing than anyone else. Imagine someone from Brooklyn taking your land? You know what it is similar to? My buddy lives in Minerva Park Ohio…..outside Columbus. In his deed, you can see the history….the property was originally given away for clearing the land from Natives. These “settlements” are what we call Subdivisions here. It’s all silly. I don’t have the right answer. All I know is right is right and wrong is wrong. I don’t think people “protested” the world trade center bombings either. Maybe students should have called for divestment from Hamas. I don’t believe it’s because people were indifferent or sympathetic. Some things are so atrocious that it speaks for itself. Like Isis and Al Qaeda, Hamas is a terrorist organization and not a Sovereign State. Israel has the right to defend itself. Not debating that. But I suppose a good offense is the best defense.

I don't have the right answer, either. Best I can come up with is to have a coalition of Arab, EU, US to run and govern Palestine, and pump money in to build industries and make it an education/training and job center. That's all I got.

And, most certainly, NOT Israel. Oh, and get the fcuking "settlers" out of the West Bank.

[Typical Lax Dad]

\What I don't understand is your vitriol and obduracy regarding the obvious crimes of the IDF and the Israeli government. Are you familiar with the Geneva Convention and the duties the Israelis have to non-combatants? You know, no killing them or starving them or denying medical care. Little things like that.

I think you're confusing me with another poster.

The ONLY vitriol I have is to three groups: Hamas. The far right in Israel, including Bibi, doing things like adding settlements and hammering defenseless civilians knowing full well what that does to prospects of peace. And the blind pro-Palestian nutjobs who want the Jewish people out of the entire region.

As for annoyance? I'm annoyed at any person or group that refuses to acknowledge or mention the horrible things that "the other side" have done.

Things like railing at Israel for killing folks or starving and violating the Geneva Convention without owning up to the fact that Palestinians violated, and are continuing to violate the living sh(t out of the Geneva Convention by slaughtering 1200 civilians and children, and holding hundreds hostage, and starving and torturing and raping and killing hostages along the way.

Both sides are prolonging this mess for WAY the F longer than needed.

Hamas killing 1,200 innocent people is awful. Not sure anyone has ignored it.

Do you see any protests anywhere that stands up to Hamas? Or the holding of hostages? Outside of counter protests, I'm unaware of any. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Everyone is demanding that Israel stop with the violence, and I agree with that.

But I haven't seen anyone demonstrating to demand that Hamas release the 130 hostages they still hold, or to surrender power to the Palestinian people. If you're Jewish...what message does that send? I've said it before: I understand on a logical level why the Israelis have stopped listening to anyone. I don't agree with their choices, but we're basically telling them that their people don't matter, and THEY are the SOLE problem here.

In most conflicts there is a concept of proportionality. I am not sure if the response has exceeded what is considered proportional.

Pretty easy to argue that they are looking for hostages. That said, I believe what Israel is doing is disproportional, and over the top, and is exactly what Hamas wanted.

Hamas is smart enough to understand that their days in the headlines are numbered. Which tells me that they don't REALLY care about any of this....it's about fleecing people of money and power, and that's it.

Also, Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinian people. It’s a terrorist organization that cares no more about Palestinians than it does Jews unless they are sympathetic to their ideology. No “Palestinian” under the age of 35 voted for Hamas to “represent them” and those that did only accounted for 44% of the vote.

You're not wrong. But the obvious problem here is: if Hamas doesn't rep Palestine.....who does?

Many people protesting are doing so because Israel pretty much meets the definition of an Apartheid State. A good friend of mine does a lot of work with Save The Children and first got involved about 10 years ago when he started taking trips to the region. He said for years he never realized how bad it was and it reminded him of South Africa.

Yes, but this leaves out the "why". South Africa behaved the way they did because they're a bunch of racist wankers.

Israel behaves this way because of non-stop attacks and terrorism. What would have happened if Palestinians behaved the same way every country in the world does after losing a war over territory? Borders and lands have exchanged hands since before the written word showed up. Yet this is the only place on Earth where the reaction to losing a war, is to wage a terrorist war for what's closing in on 100 years.

The saddest part of this whole thing is that had the Palestinians chosen peace decades ago? There wouldn't be one single fence, and zero restricted movement, and Muslims would have a far bigger voice in Israeli government (they already have Judges), and they've be free to go and live anywhere they wanted.

Instead? We get this mess.

Picture what this would look like if the Native Inhabitants of Canada, America, and Australia had done what Palestinians have done for the last several decades. How do you suppose we'd react? Or heck, picture any group on Earth that's po'ed about redrawn borders from just WWII....waging a terrorist war for 70 years because they're mad that they "lost their country".

As Americans, we already relegate the folks we conquered to sh9tty piece of land throughout America. We hardly have the high ground here.

Many people in Israel are protesting. I am pretty sure they are not ignoring the 1,200 Israeli citizens slaughtered.

That's Israel. What about everywhere else? And what message does that send?

It’s all the same. I wonder what the body count is on each side since 1948? Iran launched missiles, Israel had a proportional response. I pointed out Israel as they have more standing than anyone else. Imagine someone from Brooklyn taking your land? You know what it is similar to? My buddy lives in Minerva Park Ohio…..outside Columbus. In his deed, you can see the history….the property was originally given away for clearing the land from Natives. These “settlements” are what we call Subdivisions here. It’s all silly. I don’t have the right answer. All I know is right is right and wrong is wrong. I don’t think people “protested” the world trade center bombings either. Maybe students should have called for divestment from Hamas. I don’t believe it’s because people were indifferent or sympathetic. Some things are so atrocious that it speaks for itself. Like Isis and Al Qaeda, Hamas is a terrorist organization and not a Sovereign State. Israel has the right to defend itself. Not debating that. But I suppose a good offense is the best defense.

I don't have the right answer, either. Best I can come up with is to have a coalition of Arab, EU, US to run and govern Palestine, and pump money in to build industries and make it an education/training and job center. That's all I got.

And, most certainly, NOT Israel. Oh, and get the fcuking "settlers" out of the West Bank.

“Settlers” sounds better than “invaders”.

[jhu72]

Any well meaning campus protesters lose all credibility when they join antisemitic protesters, symbols, or content or allow them in their midst.

... yeah Like the "pro-Palestine" protestors are in total control of all the people who might join the protest under a false flag. Of course there are no provocateurs hanging around the protestors. And of course there are no counter protestors.

Just by being together, the "well meaning" protesters provide cover & are still participating in illegal activity when they obstruct & disrupt.

... If person X breaks a window, person Y is not held responsible. It is not like murder.

...they were on Jan 6th.

nice try

These protesters are clowns. They give new meaning to the term useful idiots.

... the clowns are people like you that have no idea what is really going on. These kids (some of them that I have seen) are a lot smarter and are better organized than you would give them credit. They have learned their history and are applying it. If only the administrators were doing as good of a job. Some are, some aren't. The places that are mostly in the national news, the ones where things have gotten out of hand, THE ADMINISTRATIONS and or local politicians are the reason things have gotten out of hand. There are between 75 and closer to 100 college / university protests. You hear about a half dozen on the national news. The others aren't making any national news. You have to look at local news and school media to find out what is going on.

The great American con. I would disagree with this opinion piece only in that he believes one of the groups being coned are the professors. Some are, most aren't.

You are just one more old "get of my grass" clown that hates college kids. We get it.

[jhu72]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas ... 499fdbae02

Nine people are worth less than Hamas capabilities. It’s all outrageous

... they were Hamas fighters.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas ... 499fdbae02

Nine people are worth less than Hamas capabilities. It’s all outrageous

... they were Hamas fighters.

Thanks. The early report indicated it was a mistake. Hopefully it was 9 Hamas fighters instead of innocent people just going about their day.

[PizzaSnake]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas ... 499fdbae02

Nine people are worth less than Hamas capabilities. It’s all outrageous

... they were Hamas fighters.

Thanks. The early report indicated it was a mistake. Hopefully it was 9 Hamas fighters instead of innocent people just going about their day.

I'd really like to see some independent reporting on fatalities and injuries. I'm pretty sure both sides (Palestinians and Israelis) are lying, what I don't know is when and how much.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas ... 499fdbae02

"The Palestinian death toll from the war is at least 34,049, with 76,901 wounded, the Gaza Health Ministry said, adding that the bodies of 37 people killed by Israeli strikes were taken to hospitals over the past 24 hours. The Hamas-run health authorities do not differentiate between combatants and civilians in their count but say at least two-thirds have been children and women."

"The Palestinian Health Ministry said 12 bodies were taken Saturday from the Nur Sham urban refugee camp, raising the death toll to 13 since an Israeli military operation began in the area Thursday night. It said they were killed “as a result of the occupation’s aggression.”

"Elsewhere in the West Bank, the ministry said an ambulance driver was shot dead near Sawiya town while trying to reach Palestinians injured in clashes with Israeli settlers. The Palestinian Red Crescent said Mohammed Musa was shot in the chest. A wave of settler attacks began a week ago after an Israeli teen went missing and was found dead."

[admin]

STFU troll boy... You forking moron.

No personal attacks.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas ... 499fdbae02

Nine people are worth less than Hamas capabilities. It’s all outrageous

... they were Hamas fighters.

Thanks. The early report indicated it was a mistake. Hopefully it was 9 Hamas fighters instead of innocent people just going about their day.

I'd really like to see some independent reporting on fatalities and injuries. I'm pretty sure both sides (Palestinians and Israelis) are lying, what I don't know is when and how much.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas ... 499fdbae02

"The Palestinian death toll from the war is at least 34,049, with 76,901 wounded, the Gaza Health Ministry said, adding that the bodies of 37 people killed by Israeli strikes were taken to hospitals over the past 24 hours. The Hamas-run health authorities do not differentiate between combatants and civilians in their count but say at least two-thirds have been children and women."

"The Palestinian Health Ministry said 12 bodies were taken Saturday from the Nur Sham urban refugee camp, raising the death toll to 13 since an Israeli military operation began in the area Thursday night. It said they were killed “as a result of the occupation’s aggression.”

"Elsewhere in the West Bank, the ministry said an ambulance driver was shot dead near Sawiya town while trying to reach Palestinians injured in clashes with Israeli settlers. The Palestinian Red Crescent said Mohammed Musa was shot in the chest. A wave of settler attacks began a week ago after an Israeli teen went missing and was found dead."

What a $h!t show….

[jhu72]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas ... 499fdbae02

Nine people are worth less than Hamas capabilities. It’s all outrageous

... they were Hamas fighters.

Thanks. The early report indicated it was a mistake. Hopefully it was 9 Hamas fighters instead of innocent people just going about their day.

... it's not clear you saw my tongue in check.