Conservative Ideology: A Big Lie

[Trinity]

They’re doing racist robo calls in Florida against Gillum. It’s not an innocent slip of the tongue. It’s a bullhorn.

[tech37]

afan - we tend to see pretty eye to eye, but on this one, I don't get it. Do YOU think "black man" when you hear the word "monkey"?

Of course I don't.

But DeSantis didn't just say that one single word, "monkey", drop the mic, and get in a car.

You're leaving out the context.

"You know, he is an articulate spokesman for those far-left views and he's a charismatic candidate," DeSantis said. "The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases and bankrupting the state. That is not going to work. That's not going to be good for Florida."

Good luck HooDat trying to talk sense re anything racial (perceived or otherwise) with some/many on here. a fan I think has just been beaten down by PC culture over the years, and then there are others, the likes of Diss, who just want to use any derogatory fodder they can find to slam anything not Democrat.

a fan, if DeSantis said... The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up with some black guy running for governor...then I'm right there with you bro.

[MDlaxfan76]

Sorry, the seat doesn't belong to the McCain family.

"Belong to"? Of course not.
But it's quite common for a governor to pass a temporary seat to a relative when the sitting Rep or Senator passes away. Closest thing to honoring the prior vote, being consistent with the voters' most recent choice. In this case, maverick R John McCain.

Cindy McCain has been under consideration; I'm simply a fan of Meghan's after yesterday's eulogy.

I am sorry, but this is plain stupid. Yes, governors appoint relatives to vacated posts - for reasons of personal gain and the accretion of power!

Laxman is right on this one - regardless of any accusation of motivation

How in heavens' name can people get so comfortable with these family dynasties of politics? Have you ever been part of a family? Is every sibling, kid, aunt, uncle and cousin of equal caliber? We fought a war 240 years ago, and founded this nation, on the premise that monarchies are not right, and governments exist to serve the people, not the other way around.

Hey - how about this - if Trump were to get hit by a bus (I know hold the applause) - let's just appoint Ivanka or Jared to be the POTUS!!!

Why not right? That's how it works, isn't it? It would be the best way to honor the prior vote...

Do you hear how completely brainwashed you are? Of course a family should keep their seats in congress for ever. Of course the Kennedy's are great people - let's keep electing them three and four generations later even though the one's we worship were womanizing, murdering, scumbags who made their fortune as mobsters.... Same thing goes for the Bush family. I have had enough. Two was plenty, and most likely too many. Not sure that family money is real clean either - Prescott and Joe were probably in business together ...

....because that is how things work....

TATTS

I'm not usually called "stupid" but I'll assume you simply disagree with my point that, on a temporary basis, a relative may well be an appropriate choice for such an appointment. In other words, until the next election cycle. That can be a special election or a regularly scheduled one.

Sometimes it's the Chief of Staff. The concept is to have as seamless a process as possible, for the time being. Same staff, same fundamental policy positions. But only until the voters have ample opportunity to weigh in again.

And, yeah, I thought Meghan's performance as a surrogate for her father and her family was highly impressive. So, I'd have to consider that possibility if I was the Governor of Arizona. We know that one of the possibilities who has been up for consideration is Cindy McCain. But I'm predicting that the Trumpists would be outraged and would far rather he appoint a dirt bag like Joe Arpaio. And right now the Trumpists are ascendant.

[youthathletics]

This video sums it up nicely.....Also his first comment " We are lucky democrats are in charge of the voting machines" was quite interesting....."collusion alert"

[dislaxxic]

The GOP Crafted an Ingenious Way to Fill John McCain’s Seat

..

[MDlaxfan76]

afan - we tend to see pretty eye to eye, but on this one, I don't get it. Do YOU think "black man" when you hear the word "monkey"?

Of course I don't.

But DeSantis didn't just say that one single word, "monkey", drop the mic, and get in a car.

You're leaving out the context.

"You know, he is an articulate spokesman for those far-left views and he's a charismatic candidate," DeSantis said. "The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases and bankrupting the state. That is not going to work. That's not going to be good for Florida."

Yes, the context mattered. He wasn't talking about a monkey in a circus, he was talking about an African American politician.

Here's how I see it:
Screw up by saying something that others read as offensive and racist and simply say, "oh my gosh, that's not what I intended. If anyone heard that in my comment, I apologize. It was a mistaken phrase and I'm sorry. But I certainly didn't mean it that way."
Easy peasy. Mistakes happen.

BUT and it's indeed a huge BUT...those who really are racists will be outraged that you apologize for giving inadvertent offense.

Instead, DeSantis doubled down and has allowed the applause because he didn't apologize.

All we need to know.

[MDlaxfan76]

The GOP Crafted an Ingenious Way to Fill John McCain’s Seat

..

I don't have an issue with this choice, though I did find the notion of Meghan McCain appealing.

[tech37]

This video sums it up nicely.....Also his first comment " We are lucky democrats are in charge of the voting machines" was quite interesting....."collusion alert"

excellent find youth! (emoji enthusiastically clapping)

[HooDat]

afan - we tend to see pretty eye to eye, but on this one, I don't get it. Do YOU think "black man" when you hear the word "monkey"?

Of course I don't.

But DeSantis didn't just say that one single word, "monkey", drop the mic, and get in a car.

You're leaving out the context.

"You know, he is an articulate spokesman for those far-left views and he's a charismatic candidate," DeSantis said. "The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases and bankrupting the state. That is not going to work. That's not going to be good for Florida."

Let me be clear that I am not supporting DeSantis specifically as we have this discussion, I just think this is a conversation worth having - one in which we all have to decide who we are going to let determine the meaning of our language and words.

DeSantis may be a racist pig. Perhaps he meant to compare his opponent to a monkey. But I would actually have more of a problem with your "monkey" and mic drop scenario. Unless DeSantis has a history of racist behavior or remarks, there looks to be room to give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant monkey. But I take MDlaxfan's point.

And this is where it get's interesting (to me at least). Are we going to be allowed to have grown up conversations? Is our language going to be corrupted by people filled with hate (from both sides) or are the rational people going to prevail? Right now, the rational people are being actively ignored.

There is no money or pizzazz in rationality.

We need offensive people, we need offended people, we need people offended by offended people. We need to scream that the "other guy" hates you, and he wants to destroy your way of life and invalidate everything you stand for! abort your babies, lynch your neighbors, ban your books, corrupt your children... boy, that sounds like an awful lot of work...

[HooDat]

I'm not usually called "stupid" but I'll assume you simply disagree with my point that, on a temporary basis, a relative may well be an appropriate choice for such an appointment.

What I was specifically calling stupid is the generally accepted notion that a relative not only could, but should, be considered appropriate temporary appointment to replace someone in their job - unless it is a family business, and even then it is not the most obviously best assumption. More specifically, I find it stupid that we as a people take it on faith that someone's daughter, wife, sister, or brother should be considered as a high quality choice as a political replacement.

What that notion does do, is support an existing power structure.

I would have thought my Trump analogy would have driven that point home, but perhaps I should have used the example of Billy Carter to replace Jimmy Carter!

Billy Beer.png (139.53 KiB) Viewed 6715 times

[a fan]

Good luck HooDat trying to talk sense re anything racial (perceived or otherwise) with some/many on here. a fan I think has just been beaten down by PC culture over the years, and then there are others, the likes of Diss, who just want to use any derogatory fodder they can find to slam anything not Democrat.

a fan, if DeSantis said... The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up with some black guy running for governor...then I'm right there with you bro.

Right, and I get where you and HooDat are coming from.....truly I do.

This is where I get on my "R"s and D's" soapbox: you and HooDat are, understandably, reacting to the leftwing/Dem nutjobs who make mountains out of all molehills. I get that, and I agree that that's just as destructive as DeSantis' original statement. Plus, it's annoying.

I'm the middle of the road guy-----the guy who wants civility while we disagree on ideas. The guy who's livid that the libs think its supercool to kick someone out of a restaurant for working in a Republican White House.

I'm with MDlaxfan76 on this: he screwed up. All DeSantis has to do---which is what he didn't do---is apologize for his turn of phrase, say that he abhors dogwhistles just like everyone else does, apologize to the candidate he inadvertently insulted, and move on. He does that? No big deal, we have bigger fish to fry.

Otherwise, if you let everything slide except screaming "I"m a racist" from a rooftop...... you're encouraging racism. And that's swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. Find the center.

Just my opinion. I choose the better angels of our nature. Be kind. Listen. We're all on the same damn team, even though we all get frustrated from time to time.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Good luck HooDat trying to talk sense re anything racial (perceived or otherwise) with some/many on here. a fan I think has just been beaten down by PC culture over the years, and then there are others, the likes of Diss, who just want to use any derogatory fodder they can find to slam anything not Democrat.

a fan, if DeSantis said... The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up with some black guy running for governor...then I'm right there with you bro.

Right, and I get where you and HooDat are coming from.....truly I do.

This is where I get on my "R"s and D's" soapbox: you and HooDat are, understandably, reacting to the leftwing/Dem nutjobs who make mountains out of all molehills. I get that, and I agree that that's just as destructive as DeSantis' original statement. Plus, it's annoying.

I'm the middle of the road guy-----the guy who wants civility while we disagree on ideas. The guy who's livid that the libs think its supercool to kick someone out of a restaurant for working in a Republican White House.

I'm with MDlaxfan76 on this: he screwed up. All DeSantis has to do---which is what he didn't do---is apologize for his turn of phrase, say that he abhors dogwhistles just like everyone else does, apologize to the candidate he inadvertently insulted, and move on. He does that? No big deal, we have bigger fish to fry.

Otherwise, if you let everything slide except screaming "I"m a racist" from a rooftop...... you're encouraging racism. Just my opinion. I choose the better angels of our nature. Be kind. Listen. We're all on the same damn team, even though we all get frustrated from time to time.

There isn’t much racism in this country... too many sensitive people is the problem. I am with Hoodat...we need more of this:



Folks can’t take a joke anymore.

[tech37]

"he screwed up"

No doubt a fan, agreed...but I find it unfathomable that he did it consciously. In this day and age, that is political suicide (obviously). He screwed up by not realizing what his unfortunate choice of words might/would provoke.

[HooDat]

afan - we tend to see pretty eye to eye

I'm the middle of the road guy-----the guy who wants civility while we disagree on ideas.

I'm with MDlaxfan76 on this: he screwed up. All DeSantis has to do---which is what he didn't do---is apologize for his turn of phrase, say that he abhors dogwhistles just like everyone else does, apologize to the candidate he inadvertently insulted

Find the center.

Just my opinion. I choose the better angels of our nature. Be kind. Listen. We're all on the same damn team, even though we all get frustrated from time to time.

i feel better now.


...well I felt better until I listened to the video TLD posted....

And for the record - portraying an equivalency between a relatively common phrase that in most every context is not intended to be offensive and the kind of bigotry referenced in that video is why in the long run no one will take you seriously. Do racists stand out? Of course they do - so does a huge zit at the end of your nose. Does that mean there are millions of people in this country who support the attacks described in that video? Of course not.

For you to imply that anything I have said in this thread is of a moral equivalency to the kind of behavior described in that video is ridiculous.

[Trinity]

DeSantis went to Yale and Harvard. He knew what he was saying and doubled down on the Bubba vote. It might not matter as much as the green puke flowing up and down the west coast. People from Tallahassee to Key West want to tar and feather Rick Scott. Democratic turnout will be massive.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Racists/white supremacists use and used the word 'monkey' to demean African Americans; they did it as Dems back when Dems did include that element and today as Republicans, now that they are found within, and tolerated by, the GOP.

are you suggesting that the intentions matter???

i ask because aFan said it's offensive language.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Racists/white supremacists use and used the word 'monkey' to demean African Americans; they did it as Dems back when Dems did include that element and today as Republicans, now that they are found within, and tolerated by, the GOP.

are you suggesting that the intentions matter???

i ask because aFan said it's offensive language.

Snowflakes

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm not usually called "stupid" but I'll assume you simply disagree with my point that, on a temporary basis, a relative may well be an appropriate choice for such an appointment.

What I was specifically calling stupid is the generally accepted notion that a relative not only could, but should, be considered appropriate temporary appointment to replace someone in their job - unless it is a family business, and even then it is not the most obviously best assumption. More specifically, I find it stupid that we as a people take it on faith that someone's daughter, wife, sister, or brother should be considered as a high quality choice as a political replacement.

What that notion does do, is support an existing power structure.

I would have thought my Trump analogy would have driven that point home, but perhaps I should have used the example of Billy Carter to replace Jimmy Carter!

Billy Beer.png

Indeed, a great example of a family member who would/should not make the list, much less the short list, for a temporary replacement.

But had Carter been a deceased Senator with a Governor needing to appoint a temporary replacement, Rosalyn would have been a very fine choice.

From what I understand, McCain's wife is formidable in her own right, is well known in Arizona and was quite active politically with her husband. So, was on the obvious short list for continuity purposes. I was impressed with Meghan and could see her growing into a prominent national role with her own independent identity. I have no idea about the other McCain kids, but it was interesting to me at least that she was the chosen spokesperson for the family and IMO knocked it out of the ballpark the way her dad would have wanted. Again, temporary replacement representing continuity with the guy the voters actually elected.

I don't think that's 'stupid', but I do quite agree that a family member should only be considered if on the merits they actually would do a first rate job in such a temporary role. Billy would not have made that cut.

[MDlaxfan76]

Racists/white supremacists use and used the word 'monkey' to demean African Americans; they did it as Dems back when Dems did include that element and today as Republicans, now that they are found within, and tolerated by, the GOP.

are you suggesting that the intentions matter???

i ask because aFan said it's offensive language.

Just to be clear, Chairman, those are my words in the quote, not Bandito's.

Absolutely, intentions matter.

As others have expressed, DeSantis should have known (if he didn't) that the word should be avoided in that context. He has a plenty wide enough vocabulary to have expressed himself cogently and forcefully without it.

But as I explained, it could simply have been a flub, a stumble, a mistake.

If so, easy peasy to correct with a quick apology. But he chose to go the other way, which means he cares more about appealing to racists than not.

So, intentions matter.

[MDlaxfan76]

"he screwed up"

No doubt a fan, agreed...but I find it unfathomable that he did it consciously. In this day and age, that is political suicide (obviously). He screwed up by not realizing what his unfortunate choice of words might/would provoke.

It's terrific that you find it "unfathomable" tech37, which is why I'm confident you and I could have a cold one together and get along just fine.

The reason we suspect (don't know 100%) that he understood the word would be a dog whistle was his refusal to apologize for having given offense.

If it was simply a mistake, it would have been really easy to have said so, apologized, and put it to bed. But he either actually is racist down deep, or he calculatedly wishes to appeal more to those folks within the electorate than to more middle of the road folks.

So, we're left with knowing that about him.