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I am starting a new topic as the subject is becoming more and more relevant and life threatening for this community.

Thank you for this thread. What really made me evolve and grow with all this was having gay co-workers who became good friends.

Thank you for this thread. What really made me evolve and grow with all this was having gay co-workers who became good friends.

I heard several black commentators make this interesting point.

Imagine how fast race relations would have improved if it was a common experience to discover on some random day that your kid, sibling, neighbor, co-worker, friend, classmate was black?

That doesn't happen with black/white relations because the "other" status is visibly obvious and is also reinforced by class and income stratification which results in a lot of residential, school and workplace segregation.

In contrast, LGTB folks are mixed in everywhere and have been forever. They just haven't been out. But every time someone comes out, there's a whole new social network of people which (most often) becomes pro LGBT. Because they still like/love those people who they just discovered are LGBT. I like Bill; Bill is now gay; I still like Bill; so I guess I like gays....

Totally explains how fast same sex marriage went from "unheard of" to "duh -- of course."

ggait wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:09 pm Imagine how fast race relations would have improved if it was a common experience to discover on some random day that your kid, sibling, neighbor, co-worker, friend, classmate was black?...

That's interesting...

This past week, I was thinking about how acceptable it was to dump on gays and how recently this was. Cops were regularly walking into gay bars in *NYC*, a liberal bastion, in the 60s and beating the clientele. And, in general, the reaction was, Yeah, but they're gay and they're being gay. Throughout the 70s and early 80s, the noun and adjective to depict someone or something awful was f@g and gay. You're a f@g! Oh, man, that is so gay! Obviously things have changed (and haven't) but for many, many years, and I think one could argue that this is still the case in the present, gays were/are the bottom of the totem pole. Not simple...

4 row homes in Baltimore City were gutted by fire due to arson of one home displaying a rainbow flag.

Interesting also that most of the hate is directed towards gay men. There is plenty of hate towards gay women, but it seems like there's much less backlash.

Take lacrosse for example. Tons of gay women coaches and players out there, and hardly anyone bats an eye. Very few gay men coaches or players, and when someone comes out it's still a big deal. I remember a coach who came out about 15 years ago and got fired a year later for "performance" issues once enough time had passed so it wouldn't seem like it was due to him being gay.

Unsurprisingly, many of the people who are the loudest opponents seem to have similar skeletons in the closet (pun intended).

Natty,

Interesting also that most of the hate is directed towards gay men. There is plenty of hate towards gay women, but it seems like there's much less backlash.

That is so true - the double standards are disgusting.

I well remember back in the mid 70s when the Grand Army Plaza/Park Slope area in Brooklyn was enjoying a revival. Many have forgotten today that the change started as lesbians with higher incomes started to move into the area. Rents went up as did the general cleanliness of the neighborhood. People did not object at first. In fact, many welcomed the change. But then around 1980 or shortly thereafter gay men started to move in, with rents increasing and with more gentrification. Now the sudden appearance of gay men was perceived as some form of threat by the locals. I understand this was the same in other NYC areas initially.

Thankfully, Brooklyn has opened up its minds and hearts for people who live alternate lifestyles. There is plenty of room for a wide variety of people in God's Country.

Here in Lake Wobegone the area has been far more tolerant over these past decades.

Now let's see a change nationwide. I understand that in Florida there was some objection to a cross dressing man making an appearance in a school play. Yet, the local school board had no problem with an actress portraying Peter Pan. Again, the damnable double standard. It needs to be changed and pronto. Ditto for lax and all other sports.

Is it 'really' hate or is it more out of an endless dissatisfaction with inclusion? Gay/Lesbian people are now marginalized by the plethora of continued identities that add on to the LGBTQ+ call sign.

Crazy, when I speak to a gay, black, man, elementary school teacher....he is complaining abut the above. Happy? yes, that life as a gay person is quite acceptable now. According to him, all these subsets are making matters worse and we are turning in to a bunch Karen's.

While the "plus" can give us whiplash with more added every year, I understand that human beings wish to be acknowledged and recognized. Yes, I suppose it can be exasperating with all the additions. I don't know any gay people that are concerned by the plus, they understand. Of course, I don't speak for "the family".

To me, especially as someone who tries to be a good person and a good Christian, its really comes down to respect and live and let live. Let people be who they are.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:31 am ...Gay/Lesbian people are now marginalized by the plethora of continued identities that add on to the LGBTQ+ call sign...

Just because Gay activists want to partner with other marginalized groups doesn't mean they don't have some friction with those groups. No different than religious Jews vs. secular Jews, these blacks vs. those blacks, these latinos vs. those latinos, etc.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:31 am Is it 'really' hate or is it more out of an endless dissatisfaction with inclusion? Gay/Lesbian people are now marginalized by the plethora of continued identities that add on to the LGBTQ+ call sign.

Crazy, when I speak to a gay, black, man, elementary school teacher....he is complaining abut the above. Happy? yes, that life as a gay person is quite acceptable now. According to him, all these subsets are making matters worse and we are turning in to a bunch Karen's.

As in an article I posted about the gay pride folks refusing police security for their event. At the end of the article the folks of the LGBTQIA2S community were deeply offended. No offense intended but who or what is the LGBTQIA2S community? If you folks want your perspective understood, please stop making your cause and your objective a joke. Keep it simple and people will understand what your saying. Most sympathetic Americans lose the message when put forth in such a confusing manner. How many of you out there can define for me in a reasonable length of time who or what the LGBTQIA2S community is? I'm not mocking them. Everytime I read an article about the LGBTQ community the upper case letters and numbers keep expanding.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:55 amLGBTQIA2S

LGBTQIA2S does not equal gays. There are L activists. G activists. B activists. T activists. LGBT activists. LGBTQ activists. etc. And each of these are just... activists. Personally, I'm not so connected to any activist community. But I am connected to Ls, Gs, Bs, Ts, etc. In other words, LGBTQIA2S has no real meaning to me because, for me, it's politically-based activist stuff that does not interest me.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:31 am Is it 'really' hate or is it more out of an endless dissatisfaction with inclusion? Gay/Lesbian people are now marginalized by the plethora of continued identities that add on to the LGBTQ+ call sign.

Crazy, when I speak to a gay, black, man, elementary school teacher....he is complaining abut the above. Happy? yes, that life as a gay person is quite acceptable now. According to him, all these subsets are making matters worse and we are turning in to a bunch Karen's.

A huge +1. When I read about the LGBTQIA2S community in NYC opposed to police security for the Gay Pride event. With all of the evil out there focused on these people, they are willing to trust their security to people they prefer. I hope it works out for them. If the situation turns to chit, then don't call the police and let your people handle the situation. I'm not being derogatory in the use of " your people" When you live in America and don't consider the police as "your people" that is a country and a society heading in the wrong direction.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:31 am Is it 'really' hate or is it more out of an endless dissatisfaction with inclusion? Gay/Lesbian people are now marginalized by the plethora of continued identities that add on to the LGBTQ+ call sign.

Crazy, when I speak to a gay, black, man, elementary school teacher....he is complaining abut the above. Happy? yes, that life as a gay person is quite acceptable now. According to him, all these subsets are making matters worse and we are turning in to a bunch Karen's.

I don't know how widespread this feeling is among the LGBTQ+ community. I have no way to measure this myself. The one gay individual I have any regular contact with these days certainly gives no indication. There have certainly been stories appear in the press written by folks who are easily identifiable right wing writers that have been selling this story -- it sounds possible, but I am not ready to buy that it is widespread based on evidence to date.

It is however certainly the case that Karen-ism seems to be running wild in this country, and it is hardly an LGBTQ+ specific issue. It infects the left, it infects the right, it infects the middle. Frankly I laugh it off. I do not see it as some great threat to the nation, it will pass on its own. There are people and groups with legitimate issues and concerns, others not. Pronouns aren't a serious threat to anyone on either side. Basically it demonstrates the Karen-ism of both.

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:04 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:55 amLGBTQIA2S

LGBTQIA2S does not equal gays. There are L activists. G activists. B activists. T activists. LGBT activists. LGBTQ activists. etc. And each of these are just... activists. Personally, I'm not so connected to any activist community. But I am connected to Ls, Gs, Bs, Ts, etc. In other words, LGBTQIA2S has no real meaning to me because, for me, it's politically-based activist stuff that does not interest me.

+1

Matnum PI wrote:Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:04 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:55 amLGBTQIA2S

LGBTQIA2S does not equal gays. There are L activists. G activists. B activists. T activists. LGBT activists. LGBTQ activists. etc. And each of these are just... activists. Personally, I'm not so connected to any activist community. But I am connected to Ls, Gs, Bs, Ts, etc. In other words, LGBTQIA2S has no real meaning to me because, for me, it's politically-based activist stuff that does not interest me.

I understand what your saying. Why in the hell would an activist from a gay pride group turn down police protection in a situation that could turn violent in 5 seconds? They don't trust the police, they are at the end of a long line of Americans who are not enamored with law enforcement. That being said, they are in a unique position. If they believe they can provide their own security, I'm fine with that. If things go bad and something out of what their security people can handle happens.. don't blame law enforcement for whatever happens because they were not welcome at the event.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:11 am

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:04 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:55 amLGBTQIA2S

LGBTQIA2S does not equal gays. There are L activists. G activists. B activists. T activists. LGBT activists. LGBTQ activists. etc. And each of these are just... activists. Personally, I'm not so connected to any activist community. But I am connected to Ls, Gs, Bs, Ts, etc. In other words, LGBTQIA2S has no real meaning to me because, for me, it's politically-based activist stuff that does not interest me.

+1

So I'm confused here. You folks are telling me that LGBTQIA2S actually has no real defined meaning? That is an admission from you folks that I can honestly believe. I suppose in good ole liberal terminology you would define it as open to interpretation. That would of course be strictly limited to YOUR interpretation.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:11 am

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:04 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:55 amLGBTQIA2S

LGBTQIA2S does not equal gays. There are L activists. G activists. B activists. T activists. LGBT activists. LGBTQ activists. etc. And each of these are just... activists. Personally, I'm not so connected to any activist community. But I am connected to Ls, Gs, Bs, Ts, etc. In other words, LGBTQIA2S has no real meaning to me because, for me, it's politically-based activist stuff that does not interest me.

+1

" It has no meaning to me because it is politically based activist stuff". +1

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:20 am

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:11 am

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:04 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:55 amLGBTQIA2S

LGBTQIA2S does not equal gays. There are L activists. G activists. B activists. T activists. LGBT activists. LGBTQ activists. etc. And each of these are just... activists. Personally, I'm not so connected to any activist community. But I am connected to Ls, Gs, Bs, Ts, etc. In other words, LGBTQIA2S has no real meaning to me because, for me, it's politically-based activist stuff that does not interest me.

+1

So I'm confused here. You folks are telling me that LGBTQIA2S actually has no real defined meaning? That is an admission from you folks that I can honestly believe. I suppose in good ole liberal terminology you would define it as open to interpretation. That would of course be strictly limited to YOUR interpretation.

... the +1 indicates my position is exactly the same as Matt's, understanding and feeling. Period. You of course want to build some liberal conspiracy