NCAA reorg imminent

[Essexfenwick]

Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns

This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

The FSU lawsuit is filed in Tallahassee (of course) and the assigned judge earned both his college and law degrees from FSU.

Would not be surprised if Florida AG Ashley Moody (a Florida grad, ironically) gets involved, either in FSU’s case or in a separate lawsuit.

One thing is for certain, there are other ACC schools that want to leave the ACC. They are simply letting FSU serve as the vanguard and take the lead.

I think it is safe to say that the ACC as we know it is finished.

The conference may survive in some form, but it likely will be a diminished conference.

DocBarrister

No conferences is going to survive 10yrs from now. They don’t have any value. Collective negotiation? Not worth it. The whole system is changing and event he conferences winners don’t see the big picture.

The Big Ten conference has synergy in that its predominantly flagship public research giants that have a lot in common. Even the 2 privates are large in research. UMD is getting 1 billion plus a year in research dollars and less than 100 billion from big ten tv rights. Research is way higher on the totem pole as far as conference affiliation

[Essexfenwick]

Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns

This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

The FSU lawsuit is filed in Tallahassee (of course) and the assigned judge earned both his college and law degrees from FSU.

Would not be surprised if Florida AG Ashley Moody (a Florida grad, ironically) gets involved, either in FSU’s case or in a separate lawsuit.

One thing is for certain, there are other ACC schools that want to leave the ACC. They are simply letting FSU serve as the vanguard and take the lead.

I think it is safe to say that the ACC as we know it is finished.

The conference may survive in some form, but it likely will be a diminished conference.

DocBarrister

No conferences is going to survive 10yrs from now. They don’t have any value. Collective negotiation? Not worth it. The whole system is changing and event he conferences winners don’t see the big picture.

The Big Ten conference has synergy in that its predominantly flagship public research giants that have a lot in common. Even the 2 privates are large in research. UMD is getting 1 billion plus a year in research dollars and less than 100 billion from big ten tv rights. Research is way higher on the totem pole as far as conference affiliation

[a fan]

Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns

This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

What contract DOESN'T restrict trade with 3rd+ parties in some way?

[DocBarrister]

Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns

This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

What contract DOESN'T restrict trade with 3rd+ parties in some way?

This Florida statute is apparently used in many disputes involving non-compete clauses. Lots of case law interpreting this statute.

Frankly, it is not clear to me that a half-billion dollar penalty for leaving the ACC could ever be deemed enforceable. We are, after all, talking about a public institution of higher learning. Such a penalty would impact both the state of Florida and Florida taxpayers.

DocBarrister

[a fan]

This Florida statute is apparently used in many disputes involving non-compete clauses. Lots of case law interpreting this statute.

So very many laws are so very poorly written. I could argue that all contracts restrict trade: if I sign a contract to by X, logic says someone else can't buy it.

This would also make the Three Tier system illegal in Florida.....where you sign a contract to carry, for example, Guinness beer as a wholesalers. These contracts prohibit other wholesalers from distributing Guinness.

Whoever wrote this law should be disbarred.

Frankly, it is not clear to me that a half-billion dollar penalty for leaving the ACC could ever be deemed enforceable. We are, after all, talking about a public institution of higher learning. Such a penalty would impact both the state of Florida and Florida taxpayers.

DocBarrister

Then why sign the contract?

And: goverrnment lawyers from Florida green-lit the deal, did they not? So.....Florida can't sign contracts if it "might" impact taxpayers? What kind of an argument is that? Does that sort of thing work in Court?

And: what the F kind of lawyering happened that they'd draft a contract that you can argue your way out of....seems to me the ENTIRE point of the contract is to make it financially painful to bail early. Why is that a legal flaw in a contract, when everyone signed the thing?


I'll never understand your profession.

[DocBarrister]

This Florida statute is apparently used in many disputes involving non-compete clauses. Lots of case law interpreting this statute.

So very many laws are so very poorly written. I could argue that all contracts restrict trade: if I sign a contract to by X, logic says someone else can't buy it.

This would also make the Three Tier system illegal in Florida.....where you sign a contract to carry, for example, Guinness beer as a wholesalers. These contracts prohibit other wholesalers from distributing Guinness.

Whoever wrote this law should be disbarred.

Frankly, it is not clear to me that a half-billion dollar penalty for leaving the ACC could ever be deemed enforceable. We are, after all, talking about a public institution of higher learning. Such a penalty would impact both the state of Florida and Florida taxpayers.

DocBarrister

Then why sign the contract?

And: goverrnment lawyers from Florida green-lit the deal, did they not? So.....Florida can't sign contracts if it "might" impact taxpayers? What kind of an argument is that? Does that sort of thing work in Court?

And: what the F kind of lawyering happened that they'd draft a contract that you can argue your way out of....seems to me the ENTIRE point of the contract is to make it financially painful to bail early. Why is that a legal flaw in a contract, when everyone signed the thing?


I'll never understand your profession.

That’s right, you don’t understand.

A party can contract themselves into ball and chains. That doesn’t mean it’s in the state’s interest to allow such contracts to be enforced.

This is a complex case. It won’t be an easy win for either side.

But a grant-of-rights clause like this one has never been tested in a court of law, as far as I know.

Any contract must be enforceable under applicable state law. I am skeptical that this harsh grant-of-rights is enforceable.

We will see ….

In any case, the days of the ACC are numbered.

DocBarrister

[Farfromgeneva]

Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns

This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

What contract DOESN'T restrict trade with 3rd+ parties in some way?

This Florida statute is apparently used in many disputes involving non-compete clauses. Lots of case law interpreting this statute.

Frankly, it is not clear to me that a half-billion dollar penalty for leaving the ACC could ever be deemed enforceable. We are, after all, talking about a public institution of higher learning. Such a penalty would impact both the state of Florida and Florida taxpayers.

DocBarrister

There’s precedent to pay $500mm for bad decision making in higher ed…

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/us/l ... ement.html

The money isn’t the issue it’s just a fight to weaken the conference and hopefully wear them down to a number below $200mm

[a fan]

This Florida statute is apparently used in many disputes involving non-compete clauses. Lots of case law interpreting this statute.

So very many laws are so very poorly written. I could argue that all contracts restrict trade: if I sign a contract to by X, logic says someone else can't buy it.

This would also make the Three Tier system illegal in Florida.....where you sign a contract to carry, for example, Guinness beer as a wholesalers. These contracts prohibit other wholesalers from distributing Guinness.

Whoever wrote this law should be disbarred.

Frankly, it is not clear to me that a half-billion dollar penalty for leaving the ACC could ever be deemed enforceable. We are, after all, talking about a public institution of higher learning. Such a penalty would impact both the state of Florida and Florida taxpayers.

DocBarrister

Then why sign the contract?

And: goverrnment lawyers from Florida green-lit the deal, did they not? So.....Florida can't sign contracts if it "might" impact taxpayers? What kind of an argument is that? Does that sort of thing work in Court?

And: what the F kind of lawyering happened that they'd draft a contract that you can argue your way out of....seems to me the ENTIRE point of the contract is to make it financially painful to bail early. Why is that a legal flaw in a contract, when everyone signed the thing?


I'll never understand your profession.

That’s right, you don’t understand.

A party can contract themselves into ball and chains. That doesn’t mean it’s in the state’s interest to allow such contracts to be enforced.

Obvious answer to that is to write laws that are more clear, so you know what's cool, and what isn't....but that's asking too much.

If it's so obvious that this contract is unenforceable on its face....why didn't any of what was surely dozens of lawyers who reviewed it pipe up?

[Farfromgeneva]

This Florida statute is apparently used in many disputes involving non-compete clauses. Lots of case law interpreting this statute.

So very many laws are so very poorly written. I could argue that all contracts restrict trade: if I sign a contract to by X, logic says someone else can't buy it.

This would also make the Three Tier system illegal in Florida.....where you sign a contract to carry, for example, Guinness beer as a wholesalers. These contracts prohibit other wholesalers from distributing Guinness.

Whoever wrote this law should be disbarred.

Frankly, it is not clear to me that a half-billion dollar penalty for leaving the ACC could ever be deemed enforceable. We are, after all, talking about a public institution of higher learning. Such a penalty would impact both the state of Florida and Florida taxpayers.

DocBarrister

Then why sign the contract?

And: goverrnment lawyers from Florida green-lit the deal, did they not? So.....Florida can't sign contracts if it "might" impact taxpayers? What kind of an argument is that? Does that sort of thing work in Court?

And: what the F kind of lawyering happened that they'd draft a contract that you can argue your way out of....seems to me the ENTIRE point of the contract is to make it financially painful to bail early. Why is that a legal flaw in a contract, when everyone signed the thing?


I'll never understand your profession.

That’s right, you don’t understand.

A party can contract themselves into ball and chains. That doesn’t mean it’s in the state’s interest to allow such contracts to be enforced.

This is a complex case. It won’t be an easy win for either side.

But a grant-of-rights clause like this one has never been tested in a court of law, as far as I know.

Any contract must be enforceable under applicable state law. I am skeptical that this harsh grant-of-rights is enforceable.

We will see ….

In any case, the days of the ACC are numbered.

DocBarrister

Here’s the problems for FSU and Florida:

1. They just made it official that conferences have no value beyond their ability to negotiate a contract with a media company which is mostly a function of catching peak TV and this transition from linear cable than anything else. (BigTen looks like absolute trash so far in the bowl games)
-his is a problem for them going forward and for conference health/strength for all conferences.
2. Florida is opening up a can of worms by claiming the same actors in the state representing the people are incapable of entering into contracts. In the real world this is expensive for taxpayers because every entity negotiating with the state going forward is going to charge more and frontload their payments. Why would you trust an entity that doesn’t honor contracts when things don’t go their way?
3. By pushing the non compete as unenforceable you just pissed off Ken Griffin, Barry Sternlicht and all money managers and hedge funds moving to S FL who are the crown jewel of Florida’s growth the last 10-15yrs. They utilize those HEAVILY with their employees, I’ve had a few myself.

All for…college football…

[ggait]

Doc B jumping the shark again.

1. At best, it will take FSU many years to get a resolution of this in court. Which is extremely good for the ACC. If FSU wants out, they are going to have to negotiate, and then pay.

2. And while I'm no expert on FL damages law, I did read FSU's complaint. Whiney, weak sauce, threw in everything but the kitchen sink. I was not impressed.

3. While the ACC pre-sued in NC, the power move would be to move the case to federal court. Since the whole GOR theory concocted originally by the B12 was based on the Ex Parte Young end around state sovereign immunity. Since I'm not a litigator, I would love to see someone analyze the inside baseball there.

4. The complaint also trashes everything ACC. Which, by extension, means trashing the ACC's primary partner -- the SEC. NFW is FSU ever moving to the SEC.

4. Which means FSU's only hope is the B10 -- which is now basically run by Fox sports. Or the B12, which would be an epic fail outcome for FSU.

5. If FSU ever wants to get into the B10, they better crank up their research and get themselves admitted into the AAU. Good luck with that. UF is an AAU member. And when the AAU decided to add a second Florida university to the club in June 2023, they picked...USF! That's a sick burn for the too big for their britches Seminoles.

6. The ACC wisely re-loaded (with three admittedly stupid meh football schools) to be able to keep the conference going after FSU inevitably caves, settles and pays. That helps the ACC keep enough teams to keep the current ESPN contract together. One interesting detail I learned from the complaint. The ESPN contract actually expires in 2027, not 2036. ESPN has the option to extend it out to 2036. Seems like the strategy is for FSU to be such a huge PITA over the next couple years that ESPN decides to walk away.

7. TBH, the best play I see for FSU (a big stretch) is breaking the GOR (unlikely and years from now), then grabbing UNC, Clemson and TBD and establishing its own football oriented conference. I'd predict that FSU's considerable baggage would cause the B10 to say no thanks. Who is going to be excited about entering into a long term relationship with the FSU hot mess?

P.S. Very impressive how half of the FSU starters pitched a selfish hissy fit and sat out the Orange Bowl. Funny how Georgia (who also got left out of the CFP on weak grounds) didn't have that problem. Oregon's players didn't quit or pout either. Just FSU.

And having just watched a thrilling OT Rose Bowl game, we all know that the CFP committee was sooo right in leaving the toxic narcissisist Seminoles out of the party. Karma!!

[Essexfenwick]

It’s an all big ten football final

If the Big Ten takes anybody from the acc it will be Miami. Then they need a mountain west time zone school to round to 20. No other additions unless Notre Dame asks to join

[ggait]

Let’s play this out.

Suppose everything goes fsu’s way. They break the acc gor in court. Then they get the coveted invite to join the b10. One problem.

In order to join the b10, fsu would be required to sign…the b10’s gor!

[old salt]

(BigTen looks like absolute trash so far in the bowl games)

2 x 2024 Big 10 teams just beat 2 x 2024 SEC teams in the CFP to play for the NC.

Beyond the CFP, bowl games have become meaningless pickup exhibitions between roster remnants not opting out for the transfer portal or NFL draft, often with lame duck interim coaches. e.g, FSU, tOSU, PSU, Oregon St, Syracuse, Tulane.
https://collegefootballnetwork.com/coll ... cker-2023/

A 12 team CFP will make all the bowls, except the CFP's NY's 6 bowl games, even more irrelevant espn filler.
How many will survive ? There are already not enough >.500 teams to fill them.

[DocBarrister]

Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns

This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

The FSU lawsuit is filed in Tallahassee (of course) and the assigned judge earned both his college and law degrees from FSU.

Would not be surprised if Florida AG Ashley Moody (a Florida grad, ironically) gets involved, either in FSU’s case or in a separate lawsuit.

One thing is for certain, there are other ACC schools that want to leave the ACC. They are simply letting FSU serve as the vanguard and take the lead.

I think it is safe to say that the ACC as we know it is finished.

The conference may survive in some form, but it likely will be a diminished conference.

DocBarrister

And right on schedule … Florida AG Moody gets involved.

Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody has sent a letter to the ACC requesting multiple documents related to Florida State's lawsuit against the conference, including the grant of rights agreement.

In a statement Thursday, Moody said she requested, among other items: An executed copy of the multimedia agreement between the ACC and ESPN; an executed copy of the 2014 amended multimedia agreement; an executed copy of the ACC grant of rights agreement; any other executed agreements with ESPN; and any other executed agreements between the ACC and the Walt Disney Company.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... su-lawsuit

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns

This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

The FSU lawsuit is filed in Tallahassee (of course) and the assigned judge earned both his college and law degrees from FSU.

Would not be surprised if Florida AG Ashley Moody (a Florida grad, ironically) gets involved, either in FSU’s case or in a separate lawsuit.

One thing is for certain, there are other ACC schools that want to leave the ACC. They are simply letting FSU serve as the vanguard and take the lead.

I think it is safe to say that the ACC as we know it is finished.

The conference may survive in some form, but it likely will be a diminished conference.

DocBarrister

And right on schedule … Florida AG Moody gets involved.

Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody has sent a letter to the ACC requesting multiple documents related to Florida State's lawsuit against the conference, including the grant of rights agreement.

In a statement Thursday, Moody said she requested, among other items: An executed copy of the multimedia agreement between the ACC and ESPN; an executed copy of the 2014 amended multimedia agreement; an executed copy of the ACC grant of rights agreement; any other executed agreements with ESPN; and any other executed agreements between the ACC and the Walt Disney Company.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... su-lawsuit

DocBarrister

omg, this is going exactly as you said it would.

[PizzaSnake]

Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns

This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

The FSU lawsuit is filed in Tallahassee (of course) and the assigned judge earned both his college and law degrees from FSU.

Would not be surprised if Florida AG Ashley Moody (a Florida grad, ironically) gets involved, either in FSU’s case or in a separate lawsuit.

One thing is for certain, there are other ACC schools that want to leave the ACC. They are simply letting FSU serve as the vanguard and take the lead.

I think it is safe to say that the ACC as we know it is finished.

The conference may survive in some form, but it likely will be a diminished conference.

DocBarrister

And right on schedule … Florida AG Moody gets involved.

Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody has sent a letter to the ACC requesting multiple documents related to Florida State's lawsuit against the conference, including the grant of rights agreement.

In a statement Thursday, Moody said she requested, among other items: An executed copy of the multimedia agreement between the ACC and ESPN; an executed copy of the 2014 amended multimedia agreement; an executed copy of the ACC grant of rights agreement; any other executed agreements with ESPN; and any other executed agreements between the ACC and the Walt Disney Company.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... su-lawsuit

DocBarrister

Given the bolded above, any thoughts on §542.335?

[ggait]

The ACC houses the grant of rights at the league office in Charlotte, where schools must go to read the document.

Well that's just forking stupid. Come on ACC -- it is just a contract. Not an original copy of the Magna Carta.

[Farfromgeneva]

(BigTen looks like absolute trash so far in the bowl games)

2 x 2024 Big 10 teams just beat 2 x 2024 SEC teams in the CFP to play for the NC.

Beyond the CFP, bowl games have become meaningless pickup exhibitions between roster remnants not opting out for the transfer portal or NFL draft, often with lame duck interim coaches. e.g, FSU, tOSU, PSU, Oregon St, Syracuse, Tulane.
https://collegefootballnetwork.com/coll ... cker-2023/

A 12 team CFP will make all the bowls, except the CFP's NY's 6 bowl games, even more irrelevant espn filler.
How many will survive ? There are already not enough >.500 teams to fill them.

There’s a bigger issues with bowl season I agree but if you note the time stamp that was before the playoffs. “so far” which included OSU, PSU and Iowa results

And I can’t believe folks are claiming schools as in conference when the literally aren’t in the conference yet. It’s complete nonsense the the type of argument I’d expect from a delusional Hop or Rutgera fan bathing in the glory of the BigTen.

[old salt]

(BigTen looks like absolute trash so far in the bowl games)

2 x 2024 Big 10 teams just beat 2 x 2024 SEC teams in the CFP to play for the NC.

Beyond the CFP, bowl games have become meaningless pickup exhibitions between roster remnants not opting out for the transfer portal or NFL draft, often with lame duck interim coaches. e.g, FSU, tOSU, PSU, Oregon St, Syracuse, Tulane.
https://collegefootballnetwork.com/coll ... cker-2023/

A 12 team CFP will make all the bowls, except the CFP's NY's 6 bowl games, even more irrelevant espn filler.
How many will survive ? There are already not enough >.500 teams to fill them.

There’s a bigger issues with bowl season I agree but if you note the time stamp that was before the playoffs. “so far” which included OSU, PSU and Iowa results

And I can’t believe folks are claiming schools as in conference when the literally aren’t in the conference yet. It’s complete nonsense the the type of argument I’d expect from a delusional Hop or Rutgers fan bathing in the glory of the BigTen.

We're looking forward to 2024, since the non-CFP bowls are being played with the roster remnants who'll still be around next season.

Spoiler alert -- I still have several minor bowls cached in my dvr. I haven't watched Iowa yet, but I don't expect any offense from them.

After watching AZ thump the Sooners with 6 takeaways from their freshman QB in his first start, I'm more bullish on the Big 12 than the Big 10 for next year, after watching KU, KSU, & WV in their bowls.

I hate the expanded Big 10 & the destruction of the PAC 8-10-12. Just as I hate what the SEC has done to the Big 8 & SWC, & the ACC to the BE.

[wgdsr]

The ACC houses the grant of rights at the league office in Charlotte, where schools must go to read the document.

Well that's just forking stupid. Come on ACC -- it is just a contract. Not an original copy of the Magna Carta.

it may not be any less stupid, but the espn contract is the one under lock and key. no pics, verbatim notes to be taken on it, etc. acc's lawsuit claims it as a trade secret. i believe fsu lawyers have visited it at least 4x. what's weird is acc schools have signed off on all this nonsense.

the acc gor has been online for anyone willing to dig.