Ron Desantis (The Desantis Doctrine)

[cradleandshoot]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

Like I said, you weren’t raising that point after 2016.

I didn't because it wasn't relevant in 2016. For crimminy sake I updated it for you in my post above. You can't even grasp what the very simple point of my comment.
True or false, 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. For the sake of clarity what I really mean by the comment if I'm understanding the esteemed members of this forum correctly...74 million idiots voted for trump. In that regard you may very well be correct. Are we square now? Wait, I neglected this in my prior update. A mere 63 million idiots voted for trump in 2016. Hell I just recalculated, trump had a net gain of 11 million idiots. You should thank your lucky stars the electoral college didn't decide it in 2020. Here is some food for thought for you. What if Biden had received his 80 plus million votes and had lost the election via the electoral college ? You would still have duct tape wrapped around your head today. Full transparency my friend, my comments are pure 100% unadulterated sarcasm.

[PizzaSnake]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

If the vote patterns hold true to form it might look like this. FTR, the following is 100% sarcastic in nature.

trump 2016...63 million votes

trump 2020...74 million votes

trump...2024....85 million votes??????

I bet you just threw up in your mouth a little bit didn't you?

It’s not the voting that counts…

[cradleandshoot]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

If the vote patterns hold true to form it might look like this. FTR, the following is 100% sarcastic in nature.

trump 2016...63 million votes

trump 2020...74 million votes

trump...2024....85 million votes??????

I bet you just threw up in your mouth a little bit didn't you?

It’s not the voting that counts…

Al Davis said it for years...just win baby.

[MDlaxfan76]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

Like I said, you weren’t raising that point after 2016.

I didn't because it wasn't relevant in 2016. For crimminy sake I updated it for you in my post above. You can't even grasp what the very simple point of my comment.
True or false, 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. For the sake of clarity what I really mean by the comment if I'm understanding the esteemed members of this forum correctly...74 million idiots voted for trump. In that regard you may very well be correct. Are we square now?

I don’t think there’s ever been any debate as to how many votes Trump received, nor any denial that there are 60+, 70+ million voters who fall within one or more of the following:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards ( politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian )

People of varying degrees of good will who after many years of right wing lies and propaganda have a mixed up sense of reality coupled with an entrenched loathing for “liberals”

The latter category includes as much as a third of 2016 and 2020 Trump voters. They do not deny that Trump lost in 2020, though they remain uneasy about “election integrity”, and they don’t think those who committed violence Jan 6 were right to do so…but they remain confused by all sorts of suspicions that liberals are exploiting this and trump’s legal problems for political advantage. Lots of whataboutism fed by right wing media.

Again, they have varying levels of goodwill. I think half of these are reachable with the democracy argument. If I’m right, Trump’s vote count will shrink in 2024.

However, Biden may lose voters to multiple 3rd party candidates, providing Trump to again win with a lower vote count than the Dem achieves.

My own prediction is that the national vote spread will be larger, Biden will win, but the Electoral College count will be closer as Trump picks up, narrowly, a couple of those 7 swing states.

[Farfromgeneva]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

You never once considered the finder of tribalism and fitting into a group here in your 74 million argument. Us vs the other guys which so very exists today.

[Farfromgeneva]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

Like I said, you weren’t raising that point after 2016.

I didn't because it wasn't relevant in 2016. For crimminy sake I updated it for you in my post above. You can't even grasp what the very simple point of my comment.
True or false, 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. For the sake of clarity what I really mean by the comment if I'm understanding the esteemed members of this forum correctly...74 million idiots voted for trump. In that regard you may very well be correct. Are we square now? Wait, I neglected this in my prior update. A mere 63 million idiots voted for trump in 2016. Hell I just recalculated, trump had a net gain of 11 million idiots. You should thank your lucky stars the electoral college didn't decide it in 2020. Here is some food for thought for you. What if Biden had received his 80 plus million votes and had lost the election via the electoral college ? You would still have duct tape wrapped around your head today. Full transparency my friend, my comments are pure 100% unadulterated sarcasm.

Wait what? The electoral college always decides the election what are you talking about? Biden won in a relative landslide there. Your point isn’t missed it’s just dumb and doesn’t tell anyone anything without the rest of the context we keep
Giving you and you brush aside because you’re missing the entire points

[Farfromgeneva]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

Like I said, you weren’t raising that point after 2016.

I didn't because it wasn't relevant in 2016. For crimminy sake I updated it for you in my post above. You can't even grasp what the very simple point of my comment.
True or false, 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. For the sake of clarity what I really mean by the comment if I'm understanding the esteemed members of this forum correctly...74 million idiots voted for trump. In that regard you may very well be correct. Are we square now?

I don’t think there’s ever been any debate as to how many votes Trump received, nor any denial that there are 60+, 70+ million voters who fall within one or more of the following:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards ( politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian )

People of varying degrees of good will who after many years of right wing lies and propaganda have a mixed up sense of reality coupled with an entrenched loathing for “liberals”

The latter category includes as much as a third of 2016 and 2020 Trump voters. They do not deny that Trump lost in 2020, though they remain uneasy about “election integrity”, and they don’t think those who committed violence Jan 6 were right to do so…but they remain confused by all sorts of suspicions that liberals are exploiting this and trump’s legal problems for political advantage. Lots of whataboutism fed by right wing media.

Again, they have varying levels of goodwill. I think half of these are reachable with the democracy argument. If I’m right, Trump’s vote count will shrink in 2024.

However, Biden may lose voters to multiple 3rd party candidates, providing Trump to again win with a lower vote count than the Dem achieves.

My own prediction is that the national vote spread will be larger, Biden will win, but the Electoral College count will be closer as Trump picks up, narrowly, a couple of those 7 swing states.

I don’t see him getting ga but maybe. People are becoming increasingly loyal to Kemp and that marriage of Kemp and Trump failed years ago.

[cradleandshoot]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

Like I said, you weren’t raising that point after 2016.

I didn't because it wasn't relevant in 2016. For crimminy sake I updated it for you in my post above. You can't even grasp what the very simple point of my comment.
True or false, 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. For the sake of clarity what I really mean by the comment if I'm understanding the esteemed members of this forum correctly...74 million idiots voted for trump. In that regard you may very well be correct. Are we square now?

I don’t think there’s ever been any debate as to how many votes Trump received, nor any denial that there are 60+, 70+ million voters who fall within one or more of the following:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards ( politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian )

People of varying degrees of good will who after many years of right wing lies and propaganda have a mixed up sense of reality coupled with an entrenched loathing for “liberals”

The latter category includes as much as a third of 2016 and 2020 Trump voters. They do not deny that Trump lost in 2020, though they remain uneasy about “election integrity”, and they don’t think those who committed violence Jan 6 were right to do so…but they remain confused by all sorts of suspicions that liberals are exploiting this and trump’s legal problems for political advantage. Lots of whataboutism fed by right wing media.

Again, they have varying levels of goodwill. I think half of these are reachable with the democracy argument. If I’m right, Trump’s vote count will shrink in 2024.

However, Biden may lose voters to multiple 3rd party candidates, providing Trump to again win with a lower vote count than the Dem achieves.

My own prediction is that the national vote spread will be larger, Biden will win, but the Electoral College count will be closer as Trump picks up, narrowly, a couple of those 7 swing states.

Thank you for your reply MD. I feel like I walked into Sunday service and I am being treated to a fire and brimstone sermon. You would have made an outstanding southern Baptist preacher. I made a very simple and benign observation that is morphing into a doctoral thesis on the 2020 election. That could only happen on this forum.

[cradleandshoot]

Thanks to all of you for your opinions. Sadly I can only handle so much enlightenment in one day.

[Farfromgeneva]

Going to toss bombs and do douchey things and then be a sarcastic baby when people in a community reply. That’s why some people are completely written off and forgotten. Going to get treated like a vendor and never understand why.

[MDlaxfan76]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

Like I said, you weren’t raising that point after 2016.

I didn't because it wasn't relevant in 2016. For crimminy sake I updated it for you in my post above. You can't even grasp what the very simple point of my comment.
True or false, 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. For the sake of clarity what I really mean by the comment if I'm understanding the esteemed members of this forum correctly...74 million idiots voted for trump. In that regard you may very well be correct. Are we square now?

I don’t think there’s ever been any debate as to how many votes Trump received, nor any denial that there are 60+, 70+ million voters who fall within one or more of the following:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards ( politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian )

People of varying degrees of good will who after many years of right wing lies and propaganda have a mixed up sense of reality coupled with an entrenched loathing for “liberals”

The latter category includes as much as a third of 2016 and 2020 Trump voters. They do not deny that Trump lost in 2020, though they remain uneasy about “election integrity”, and they don’t think those who committed violence Jan 6 were right to do so…but they remain confused by all sorts of suspicions that liberals are exploiting this and trump’s legal problems for political advantage. Lots of whataboutism fed by right wing media.

Again, they have varying levels of goodwill. I think half of these are reachable with the democracy argument. If I’m right, Trump’s vote count will shrink in 2024.

However, Biden may lose voters to multiple 3rd party candidates, providing Trump to again win with a lower vote count than the Dem achieves.

My own prediction is that the national vote spread will be larger, Biden will win, but the Electoral College count will be closer as Trump picks up, narrowly, a couple of those 7 swing states.

I don’t see him getting ga but maybe. People are becoming increasingly loyal to Kemp and that marriage of Kemp and Trump failed years ago.

Nevada

[MDlaxfan76]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

Like I said, you weren’t raising that point after 2016.

I didn't because it wasn't relevant in 2016. For crimminy sake I updated it for you in my post above. You can't even grasp what the very simple point of my comment.
True or false, 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. For the sake of clarity what I really mean by the comment if I'm understanding the esteemed members of this forum correctly...74 million idiots voted for trump. In that regard you may very well be correct. Are we square now?

I don’t think there’s ever been any debate as to how many votes Trump received, nor any denial that there are 60+, 70+ million voters who fall within one or more of the following:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards ( politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian )

People of varying degrees of good will who after many years of right wing lies and propaganda have a mixed up sense of reality coupled with an entrenched loathing for “liberals”

The latter category includes as much as a third of 2016 and 2020 Trump voters. They do not deny that Trump lost in 2020, though they remain uneasy about “election integrity”, and they don’t think those who committed violence Jan 6 were right to do so…but they remain confused by all sorts of suspicions that liberals are exploiting this and trump’s legal problems for political advantage. Lots of whataboutism fed by right wing media.

Again, they have varying levels of goodwill. I think half of these are reachable with the democracy argument. If I’m right, Trump’s vote count will shrink in 2024.

However, Biden may lose voters to multiple 3rd party candidates, providing Trump to again win with a lower vote count than the Dem achieves.

My own prediction is that the national vote spread will be larger, Biden will win, but the Electoral College count will be closer as Trump picks up, narrowly, a couple of those 7 swing states.

Thank you for your reply MD. I feel like I walked into Sunday service and I am being treated to a fire and brimstone sermon. You would have made an outstanding southern Baptist preacher. I made a very simple and benign observation that is morphing into a doctoral thesis on the 2020 election. That could only happen on this forum.

I must be incredibly dense, but I see zero point to your “observation” that74 million Americans voted for Trump. That’s factual, not “sarcastic “.

I’m merely making the “observation “ that there’s some diversity of the “why”. And I’m not being “sarcastic”.

[Farfromgeneva]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

Like I said, you weren’t raising that point after 2016.

I didn't because it wasn't relevant in 2016. For crimminy sake I updated it for you in my post above. You can't even grasp what the very simple point of my comment.
True or false, 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. For the sake of clarity what I really mean by the comment if I'm understanding the esteemed members of this forum correctly...74 million idiots voted for trump. In that regard you may very well be correct. Are we square now?

I don’t think there’s ever been any debate as to how many votes Trump received, nor any denial that there are 60+, 70+ million voters who fall within one or more of the following:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards ( politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian )

People of varying degrees of good will who after many years of right wing lies and propaganda have a mixed up sense of reality coupled with an entrenched loathing for “liberals”

The latter category includes as much as a third of 2016 and 2020 Trump voters. They do not deny that Trump lost in 2020, though they remain uneasy about “election integrity”, and they don’t think those who committed violence Jan 6 were right to do so…but they remain confused by all sorts of suspicions that liberals are exploiting this and trump’s legal problems for political advantage. Lots of whataboutism fed by right wing media.

Again, they have varying levels of goodwill. I think half of these are reachable with the democracy argument. If I’m right, Trump’s vote count will shrink in 2024.

However, Biden may lose voters to multiple 3rd party candidates, providing Trump to again win with a lower vote count than the Dem achieves.

My own prediction is that the national vote spread will be larger, Biden will win, but the Electoral College count will be closer as Trump picks up, narrowly, a couple of those 7 swing states.

I don’t see him getting ga but maybe. People are becoming increasingly loyal to Kemp and that marriage of Kemp and Trump failed years ago.

Nevada

What do they have like 8-10 electoral votes? Like half Pennsy or Ga?

[Farfromgeneva]

cradle's either not reading or is being willfully dense, Geneva.

But to be clear about what I've been saying, there aren't remotely 74 million MAGA true believers, much less knowing fascists. A heck of a lot of Trump voters simply don't want to vote for a Dem. That said, a whole lot of previously inactive voters, predominantly white working class and predominantly male started getting way more politically active this past decade. Started with Tea Party, morphed into MAGA as a strong white man declared himself their savior. They bought into the tribal MAGA anger and resentment because it made sense of the angst they were feeling and gave them a series of cultural enemies as targets.

Yes, Obama's election had a huge amount to do with that. So did gay marriage.

so "elites", college educated, much less highly selective college educated became a target. "Experts"... Muslims. Mexicans. "Urban"...gays, trans...feminists...The propaganda has been very heavy and lots and lots of Americans have been influenced by it. The demographics are no accident. It's purposeful and it's all about money and power. Eyeballs and donations. And it's fomented from overseas adversaries.

The MAGA wing now totally dominates the party apparatus, though. Those with any power have either embraced MAGA as the means to get more power or are cowardly trying to simply hold on to what they have while MAGA takes over.

And the true fascists, who know what they're doing, is a relatively small set. But that's who will have the power if Trump is elected again.

And btw, cradle, authoritarianism has multiple flavors, left, right...communist, fascist...but it all comes down to power and control...and money...

I'm concerned with authoritarianism from the left as well as the right...it's why I believe in our constitutional democratic republican form of government...it's often frustrating but it beats the heck out of any form of authoritarianism.

and right now, the biggest threat is from this populist, hard right-wing MAGA form of fascism.

Your doing what you do best. Your overcomplicating if not flat out lying about what I said. I'll repeat it and simplify it just for you. 74 million people voted for trump in 2022. It's up to you to read the tea leaves from there. I'm guessing that the same 74 million people will likely vote the same. Except now you have happily labeled 74 million people as fascists by your own definition that voting for trump automatically makes you a MAGA fascist. You sure have learned to paint with a very broad brush. Do you realize that McCarthyism was rooted in contempt for communism and not fascism? If anything tail gunner Joe was shooting down fascist Nazi fighter pilots.

gaslighting again, cradle?
Just read...slowly if you have to.

No matter how slow I read it I can't change the simple fact that 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. FTR McCarthy had a bug up his butt about communists. None of you folks have the slightest grasp about what sarcasm is. This forum is desperately in need of an emoji for sarcasm.

I'll compose this again and type it in very slowly ( sarcasm BTW) tail gunner Joe despised communism and communists. Tail gunner Joe shot Nazi fascist pilots out of the sky. My sarcasm was directed to the fact that apparently communists and fascist were all being lumped into one ball of wax. Now y'all read it again several times very slowly.( sarcasm again) my comment was meant to be sarcastic. That flew right over most of y'all's heads. This forum desperately needs that sarcasm emoji, not that it will help. As always Go Bills!!! Sarcasm again.

Are we all now clear about what a sarcastic comment is??

Each election, his opponent got millions more votes.

I know that. The point of my comment was that 74 million people voted for trump. I for one was not one of them. I guess I need to explain it. Irregardless of what an a-hole trump is 74 million people preferred him over his opponent. It is no more complicated than that. Here we are in 2024 and for crimminy sake trump will be the the R candidate again. It is not even out of the realm of possibility that he might even win. If that happens there will not be enough duct tape in the world to wrap around the heads of the Democrats in America. There will be gray matter everywhere.

Didn’t hear you making that argument when Hillary got 66 million votes and Trump got 63 million.

No you didn't because that argument was not relative at the time. I remember a lot of forum members pointing that out though. The perspective in 2016 revolved around the unfairness of the electoral college. If it assuages your feelings I'll make the same point. 63 million people voted for trump in 2016. To rub salt in the wound he received 63 million votes and he won the election. Every Democrat in America is still scratching their heads today trying to understand how HRC could have lost.

I'm ready for the next bit of constructive criticism. I've got all day...

Like I said, you weren’t raising that point after 2016.

I didn't because it wasn't relevant in 2016. For crimminy sake I updated it for you in my post above. You can't even grasp what the very simple point of my comment.
True or false, 74 million people voted for trump in 2020. For the sake of clarity what I really mean by the comment if I'm understanding the esteemed members of this forum correctly...74 million idiots voted for trump. In that regard you may very well be correct. Are we square now?

I don’t think there’s ever been any debate as to how many votes Trump received, nor any denial that there are 60+, 70+ million voters who fall within one or more of the following:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards ( politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian )

People of varying degrees of good will who after many years of right wing lies and propaganda have a mixed up sense of reality coupled with an entrenched loathing for “liberals”

The latter category includes as much as a third of 2016 and 2020 Trump voters. They do not deny that Trump lost in 2020, though they remain uneasy about “election integrity”, and they don’t think those who committed violence Jan 6 were right to do so…but they remain confused by all sorts of suspicions that liberals are exploiting this and trump’s legal problems for political advantage. Lots of whataboutism fed by right wing media.

Again, they have varying levels of goodwill. I think half of these are reachable with the democracy argument. If I’m right, Trump’s vote count will shrink in 2024.

However, Biden may lose voters to multiple 3rd party candidates, providing Trump to again win with a lower vote count than the Dem achieves.

My own prediction is that the national vote spread will be larger, Biden will win, but the Electoral College count will be closer as Trump picks up, narrowly, a couple of those 7 swing states.

Thank you for your reply MD. I feel like I walked into Sunday service and I am being treated to a fire and brimstone sermon. You would have made an outstanding southern Baptist preacher. I made a very simple and benign observation that is morphing into a doctoral thesis on the 2020 election. That could only happen on this forum.

I must be incredibly dense, but I see zero point to your “observation” that74 million Americans voted for Trump. That’s factual, not “sarcastic “.

I’m merely making the “observation “ that there’s some diversity of the “why”. And I’m not being “sarcastic”.

Nice you’ve entered the realm of being around such extreme knuckleheadeeness that you begin to question yourself.

Are these guys that lost or what am I missing? The answer is the former when one asks themselves that questions and that you are missing nothing.

[kramerica.inc]

I'd love more insight and specific examples of who these people are:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards (politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian)

I keep hearing talk of "MAGA extreme republicans." Biden said it. Now we're seeing it parroted here.
I see those MAGA extremists, the die-hard "Trump is the savior" people as a very small minority.
They 100 percent exist and are a cult. But no more prevalent, pervasive or offensive as the left whack-jobs.

Biden and the left did not seem to learn from Hillary calling them deplorables. It became a badge of honor. If Biden keeps offending the moderate republicans, and lumping them in with the MAGA extremists, they will probably vote against the democrats again. Not smart.

[Farfromgeneva]

I'd love more insight and specific examples of who these people are:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards (politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian)

I keep hearing talk of "MAGA extreme republicans." Biden said it. Now we're seeing it parroted here.
I see those MAGA extremists, the die-hard "Trump is the savior" people as a very small minority.
They 100 percent exist and are a cult. But no more prevalent, pervasive or offensive as the left whack-jobs.

Biden and the left did not seem to learn from Hillary calling them deplorables. It became a badge of honor. If Biden keeps offending the moderate republicans, and lumping them in with the MAGA extremists, they will probably vote against the democrats again. Not smart.

I think it’s 20-30% of those votes. That’s high team to lows twenties millions of people.

[a fan]

I keep hearing talk of "MAGA extreme republicans." Biden said it. Now we're seeing it parroted here. I see those MAGA extremists, the die-hard "Trump is the savior" people as a very small minority.
They 100 percent exist and are a cult. But no more prevalent, pervasive or offensive as the left whack-jobs.

Buffalo bagels. You and your party are SO full of it, Kram.

You have nominated this man as your party leader for TWELVE YEARS NOW....and you and the rest of your party keep telling us "it's not me....its 'some other guy" who keeps nominating Trump.

Bullsh(t. You are SO FAR IN DENIAL as to where your party is: it's you, OS, YA, and everyone else who claims Trump is an aberration...and his supporters are the same thing as Antifa that have NO FREAKING CLUE what you've done to your Republican Party.

How many times do I have to tell you guys to wake up? What the F will get you to understand that Trump is BY FAR the Republican voters' choice?


And here comes your next steaming pile of cr*p...you guys keep saying this, because you and your party won't take responsibility for ANYTHING you do. It's pathological at this point.

YOU nominated him, Kram. YOUR PARTY. Not the Dems, not the media, not the French of the New Zealanders, or whatever excuse you think makes sense.

Biden and the left did not seem to learn from Hillary calling them deplorables. It became a badge of honor. If Biden keeps offending the moderate republicans, and lumping them in with the MAGA extremists, they will probably vote against the democrats again. Not smart.

Right. And naturally, you don't think that this works in the opposite direction when your team when Trump "lumps everyone in" as hating America.....

Why is it so hard for you guy to take ten seconds, and look in the mirror, and accept that you MIGHT be the problem??

Nah. Impossible. It's the libs and the Dems fault that (checks notes)....oh, right: it's the libs and the dems fault that Republican voters keep nominating Trump.

It's just so stupid. You're WAY too smart to believe this cr*p.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'd love more insight and specific examples of who these people are:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards (politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian)

I keep hearing talk of "MAGA extreme republicans." Biden said it. Now we're seeing it parroted here.
I see those MAGA extremists, the die-hard "Trump is the savior" people as a very small minority.
They 100 percent exist and are a cult. But no more prevalent, pervasive or offensive as the left whack-jobs.

Biden and the left did not seem to learn from Hillary calling them deplorables. It became a badge of honor. If Biden keeps offending the moderate republicans, and lumping them in with the MAGA extremists, they will probably vote against the democrats again. Not smart.

You cut the part of my post that said that as much a third of Trump voters, those of varying degrees of goodwill, fell outside the 3 categories above that you quoted.

Indeed, 69% of Republicans now say that Biden was not legitimately elected. That’s 8% higher than in 2021. Despite the very clear evidence that this false.

Is that “extremist” in your opinion?

And when including MAGA independents that’s 36% of Americans. Big chunk of America, not fringe.

Only 20% of Trump voters think Jan 6 threatened democracy, though 55% of all Americans do. 80% don’t think so, and many of those think Trump is unfairly blamed for the attack. But 56% of Americans think Trump committed a crime in the efforts forts leading up to Jan 6.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va ... ost-trump/

So, I don’t know what you want to describe these folks who hold such deluded or fascist views as being but it sure ain’t moderate or mainstream.

I hold out some hope that the delusions can eventually be pierced by reality for many of these people, but I also recognize that a very substantial portion of the American electorate throughout our multi century history have held supremacy and nativist views that justified the use of power and violence to suppress Americans’ higher ideals and aspirations. They have occupied power and have been led by those whipping up their fears and resentment and hate, for the gain of those in control…throughout American history. So, I’m not kidding myself that this part of the human condition is going to magically change.

But the fever can recede.

[old salt]

I'd love more insight and specific examples of who these people are:

MAGA fascists (understand and support termination of the Constitution and rule of law to achieve authoritarian rule that provides them power and favo)

MAGA/Trump cultists (so deluded by the single man that they believe he is chosen by God and is the instrument of God and thus all sins of Trump are either not true and perpetrated by enemies of God, Satan, Or are part of God’s plan and must be overlooked, or better forgiven as demonstrations of fealty to God/Trump)

MAGA grifters and cowards (politicians and business people and professionals who see profit in supporting the authoritarian)

I keep hearing talk of "MAGA extreme republicans." Biden said it. Now we're seeing it parroted here.
I see those MAGA extremists, the die-hard "Trump is the savior" people as a very small minority.
They 100 percent exist and are a cult. But no more prevalent, pervasive or offensive as the left whack-jobs.

Biden and the left did not seem to learn from Hillary calling them deplorables. It became a badge of honor. If Biden keeps offending the moderate republicans, and lumping them in with the MAGA extremists, they will probably vote against the democrats again. Not smart.

Yep. Trump's poll ratings began to rise after Bragg's initial indictment & continued to rise with every subsequent indictment, rallying previous Trump supporters back to his cause. This is the Dem game plan. They know that any other (R) candidate has a better chance to win than Trump. They hope to gain at least one conviction before the election, then turn the election into a national referendum on whether or not Trump should be elected or incarcerated. That's why Jack Smith is going ball to the wall & colluding with Fanni. With the border & global chaos & Biden's low approval ratings, the Dems know they can't win on the issues & need a distraction.

[kramerica.inc]

I keep hearing talk of "MAGA extreme republicans." Biden said it. Now we're seeing it parroted here. I see those MAGA extremists, the die-hard "Trump is the savior" people as a very small minority.
They 100 percent exist and are a cult. But no more prevalent, pervasive or offensive as the left whack-jobs.

Buffalo bagels. You and your party are SO full of it, Kram.

You have nominated this man as your party leader for TWELVE YEARS NOW....and you and the rest of your party keep telling us "it's not me....its 'some other guy" who keeps nominating Trump.

Bullsh(t. You are SO FAR IN DENIAL as to where your party is: it's you, OS, YA, and everyone else who claims Trump is an aberration...and his supporters are the same thing as Antifa that have NO FREAKING CLUE what you've done to your Republican Party.

How many times do I have to tell you guys to wake up? What the F will get you to understand that Trump is BY FAR the Republican voters' choice?


And here comes your next steaming pile of cr*p...you guys keep saying this, because you and your party won't take responsibility for ANYTHING you do. It's pathological at this point.

YOU nominated him, Kram. YOUR PARTY. Not the Dems, not the media, not the French of the New Zealanders, or whatever excuse you think makes sense.

Biden and the left did not seem to learn from Hillary calling them deplorables. It became a badge of honor. If Biden keeps offending the moderate republicans, and lumping them in with the MAGA extremists, they will probably vote against the democrats again. Not smart.

Right. And naturally, you don't think that this works in the opposite direction when your team when Trump "lumps everyone in" as hating America.....

Why is it so hard for you guy to take ten seconds, and look in the mirror, and accept that you MIGHT be the problem??

Nah. Impossible. It's the libs and the Dems fault that (checks notes)....oh, right: it's the libs and the dems fault that Republican voters keep nominating Trump.

It's just so stupid. You're WAY too smart to believe this cr*p.

You're doing what Biden and the left is. Labeling. Categorizing. Alienating. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a maga extremist.

Why do you keep erroneously linking me with Trump? Because I point out that Biden is trash?

Let's check the record.

I voted for McCain.
Then Kasich.
Then Hogan.

When I was a Republican my "guys" kept losing. Kept getting put off, sidelined, and then pushed out by the party. So I even went as far as to write them in. And got lambasted from some of the left- leaning melon heads around here for being "part of the problem."



I'd say I'm one of the few who is part of the solution.

I'm not a Republican. It's not MY party. I am actually a card-carrying Independent.

Until the republicans have something worth supporting I'll remain uninvolved with them.

But let me guess, you voted for Hillary and then Biden twice because they were the "lesser of two evils?" Yes?



If so, please stop trying to lecture me until you have the intestinal fortitude to practice what you preach and stand up to YOUR sh1tty party. Otherwise you're just a hypocrite, perpetuating the problem and supporting your party's lousy candidates.