njbill - 1 Minute (2 Day) Penalty

[DMac]

No, Cletus, not attempt at insults and intimidation, more like just telling it like it is.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease and you've been the squeakiest wheel of all.....you're getting plenty greased here.
You can come on with your idea of sports talk where everyone and team are fair game and tear them apart with your hyperbole and adjectives but when your style of play is criticized you can't take it and go complaining to the "authorities" that everyone is playing a little too rough for your taste.
Your attempt at a Nazi Germany analogy is sickening, my friend. To trivialize that to a few people saying some things to you that you don't like on an anonymous on line forum is incredibly self serving and indeed the definition of Goodwin's Law. Pitiful.
JFTR, I lived in Germany fourteen years after the war. I saw the destruction, saw the huge part of the population missing arms and legs, saw the scarred faces, and saw those with numbers tattooed on their arms. I've seen the pain on peoples faces as they broke down and cried while telling of their experiences during the Nazi regime and the war. Oh, I've heard from my mother what it was like to spend your teen years in bomb shelters and fear for those years too. Think real hard in the future before you make any kind of comparison of your insignificant little hardships and woes to those who experienced the unfathomable hardships and pain of the Nazi regime. Your piffling woes here are hardly worthy of bringing the Nazi regime into the discussion.

[Cletus]

...it's appreciated that you're asking him if he is, as opposed to attacking him.

Another area where there is room for growth is asking people what they mean rather than assuming, misinterpreting and demonizing from the assumption. No fun being misinterpreted—especially if the misinterpretation is followed by insults and attacks.

[Can Opener]

I don't think the severity of the comments is at issue. When the man says cool it, you cool it. If you keep it up, you have only yourself to blame. Can't say you weren't warned.

(And I mean "you" in the general sense.)

Totally agree.
If warned, expect a penalty when next infraction is observed...and that's a good thing for the reasons you describe and as Admin has explained.

Fully in favor.

My observation was more about how serious the actual series of infractions had been, rather tame in comparison to some of the stuff that goes on in other threads. But definitely testy and I see why there was a warning and then flag. No argument.

can opener, it's interesting that you found the parents at boys games to be worse than at girls games (and men's and women's) as I think you may be referring to the dads, not the moms...I thought the moms at my nieces games to be way rougher than most of what we heard from moms at boys games, but dads relatively quiet, and vice versa the men at boys games tended to be more outspoken, unsportsmanlike. Obviously most aren't, but the loudest...

I get it that you feel protective.

Not sure that you need to feel quite the same way about a young woman who just won a national championship and was named the most Outstanding Player and winner of the Tewey. She's on solid ground all on her own. If someone makes a statement akin to 'best ever', that's actually a bit dismissive of other young women who have played the game...likely to be some pushback. That said, I thought the points about stick technology unleashing some aspects to be interesting as well.

Though I would certainly think it would be highly unlikely that she wouldn't be on the US Team, it's not an attack on North to point out that there are other outstanding players who may well be just as deserving and may well be selected instead for specific fit.

It's up to the coaches selecting, posters here are just debating the merits of various selections...as someone who doesn't follow the women's game as closely as many of you, I found the back and forth interesting. Personally, I appreciated all the stats and comparative arguments, history of the game, etc.

I hope that you guys continue such discussions, just without the personal jabs.

Thanks for the thoughtful comments, MD. Maybe we have just been lucky at the girls games so far. It is an interesting point about whether the moms or the dads behave worse. I find that many dads are still quietly dismissive of the girl's game with the confusing rules and lots of stoppages. Even though they love their daughters and want them to play at the next level, their underlying passion may not be as strong. It is also hard for them to yell at the refs when they really don't know the rules. Of course most dads don't fully know the boy's rules, but that doesn't seem to slow them down. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I realize that you may not be saying this, but I just want to get on the record that I have never said that North is the best player of all time and I have not expressed an opinion about whether she should be on the US team, other than to say DCs are important and I would take her over one current collegiate player who doesn't take draws. I really have no idea what kind of physical shape some of the veterans are in and whether their stick skills are sharp. I would say that -- rightly or wrongly -- North's media prominence will be a factor in making the team. Every interview and story I've seen mentions growing the game and engaging young girls with US Lacrosse. Even the main landing page for the team mentions this. North is the largest media presence and the best-known name in the sport for girls under the age of 18. Again, rightly or wrongly, that crowd will be severely disappointed if she doesn't make the team.

[MDlaxfan76]

I don't think the severity of the comments is at issue. When the man says cool it, you cool it. If you keep it up, you have only yourself to blame. Can't say you weren't warned.

(And I mean "you" in the general sense.)

Totally agree.
If warned, expect a penalty when next infraction is observed...and that's a good thing for the reasons you describe and as Admin has explained.

Fully in favor.

My observation was more about how serious the actual series of infractions had been, rather tame in comparison to some of the stuff that goes on in other threads. But definitely testy and I see why there was a warning and then flag. No argument.

can opener, it's interesting that you found the parents at boys games to be worse than at girls games (and men's and women's) as I think you may be referring to the dads, not the moms...I thought the moms at my nieces games to be way rougher than most of what we heard from moms at boys games, but dads relatively quiet, and vice versa the men at boys games tended to be more outspoken, unsportsmanlike. Obviously most aren't, but the loudest...

I get it that you feel protective.

Not sure that you need to feel quite the same way about a young woman who just won a national championship and was named the most Outstanding Player and winner of the Tewey. She's on solid ground all on her own. If someone makes a statement akin to 'best ever', that's actually a bit dismissive of other young women who have played the game...likely to be some pushback. That said, I thought the points about stick technology unleashing some aspects to be interesting as well.

Though I would certainly think it would be highly unlikely that she wouldn't be on the US Team, it's not an attack on North to point out that there are other outstanding players who may well be just as deserving and may well be selected instead for specific fit.

It's up to the coaches selecting, posters here are just debating the merits of various selections...as someone who doesn't follow the women's game as closely as many of you, I found the back and forth interesting. Personally, I appreciated all the stats and comparative arguments, history of the game, etc.

I hope that you guys continue such discussions, just without the personal jabs.

Thanks for the thoughtful comments, MD. Maybe we have just been lucky at the girls games so far. It is an interesting point about whether the moms or the dads behave worse. I find that many dads are still quietly dismissive of the girl's game with the confusing rules and lots of stoppages. Even though they love their daughters and want them to play at the next level, their underlying passion may not be as strong. It is also hard for them to yell at the refs when they really don't know the rules. Of course most dads don't fully know the boy's rules, but that doesn't seem to slow them down. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I realize that you may not be saying this, but I just want to get on the record that I have never said that North is the best player of all time and I have not expressed an opinion about whether she should be on the US team, other than to say DCs are important and I would take her over one current collegiate player who doesn't take draws. I really have no idea what kind of physical shape some of the veterans are in and whether their stick skills are sharp. I would say that -- rightly or wrongly -- North's media prominence will be a factor in making the team. Every interview and story I've seen mentions growing the game and engaging young girls with US Lacrosse. Even the main landing page for the team mentions this. North is the largest media presence and the best-known name in the sport for girls under the age of 18. Again, rightly or wrongly, that crowd will be severely disappointed if she doesn't make the team.

The first para made me chuckle as my dad was such a father who never did understand the rules when my sister or his granddaughters were playing, yet was quite vocal...much to the chagrin of the gals...

I agree that North's prominence publicly is likely a factor, and of course she's a heck a ball player. Just not a guarantee.

On all the back and forth, and especially the allusions to Nazi Germany, this is well known to be fraught territory, but I'm not with the crew that says we can never talk about bullying, or authoritarian tactics, and mention that example...but we should always make clear whether we are actually equating such or not. I don't think or assume that was your intention and I wouldn't have taken it that way, but I do understand why it flipped a switch. My advice to anyone using a quote like you did to make a point would be better served to follow it with an explanation that one isn't equating the atrocities, simply the logic eg 'might makes right', 'bully boy tactics' etc.

Again, I think these topics are far better discussed civilly, though nothing wrong with people being vehement in their views.

[Cletus]

On all the back and forth, and especially the allusions to Nazi Germany, this is well known to be fraught territory, but I'm not with the crew that says we can never talk about bullying, or authoritarian tactics, and mention that example...but we should always make clear whether we are actually equating such or not. I don't think or assume that was your intention and I wouldn't have taken it that way, but I do understand why it flipped a switch. My advice to anyone using a quote like you did to make a point would be better served to follow it with an explanation that one isn't equating the atrocities, simply the logic eg 'might makes right', 'bully boy tactics' etc.

Again, I think these topics are far better discussed civilly, though nothing wrong with people being vehement in their views.

Thanks very much for your thoughtful words, MDlax. They are instructive for me. Yes, having the focus be Nazi Germany was the last thing I intended. I quoted King George because I appreciated what he said about Might Makes Right. In hindsight, I would not have included the detail of it having been issued regarding Hitler’s Nazi Germany. Thanks again for your gentle correction and instruction.

[Can Opener]

I don't think the severity of the comments is at issue. When the man says cool it, you cool it. If you keep it up, you have only yourself to blame. Can't say you weren't warned.

(And I mean "you" in the general sense.)

Totally agree.
If warned, expect a penalty when next infraction is observed...and that's a good thing for the reasons you describe and as Admin has explained.

Fully in favor.

My observation was more about how serious the actual series of infractions had been, rather tame in comparison to some of the stuff that goes on in other threads. But definitely testy and I see why there was a warning and then flag. No argument.

can opener, it's interesting that you found the parents at boys games to be worse than at girls games (and men's and women's) as I think you may be referring to the dads, not the moms...I thought the moms at my nieces games to be way rougher than most of what we heard from moms at boys games, but dads relatively quiet, and vice versa the men at boys games tended to be more outspoken, unsportsmanlike. Obviously most aren't, but the loudest...

I get it that you feel protective.

Not sure that you need to feel quite the same way about a young woman who just won a national championship and was named the most Outstanding Player and winner of the Tewey. She's on solid ground all on her own. If someone makes a statement akin to 'best ever', that's actually a bit dismissive of other young women who have played the game...likely to be some pushback. That said, I thought the points about stick technology unleashing some aspects to be interesting as well.

Though I would certainly think it would be highly unlikely that she wouldn't be on the US Team, it's not an attack on North to point out that there are other outstanding players who may well be just as deserving and may well be selected instead for specific fit.

It's up to the coaches selecting, posters here are just debating the merits of various selections...as someone who doesn't follow the women's game as closely as many of you, I found the back and forth interesting. Personally, I appreciated all the stats and comparative arguments, history of the game, etc.

I hope that you guys continue such discussions, just without the personal jabs.

Thanks for the thoughtful comments, MD. Maybe we have just been lucky at the girls games so far. It is an interesting point about whether the moms or the dads behave worse. I find that many dads are still quietly dismissive of the girl's game with the confusing rules and lots of stoppages. Even though they love their daughters and want them to play at the next level, their underlying passion may not be as strong. It is also hard for them to yell at the refs when they really don't know the rules. Of course most dads don't fully know the boy's rules, but that doesn't seem to slow them down. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I realize that you may not be saying this, but I just want to get on the record that I have never said that North is the best player of all time and I have not expressed an opinion about whether she should be on the US team, other than to say DCs are important and I would take her over one current collegiate player who doesn't take draws. I really have no idea what kind of physical shape some of the veterans are in and whether their stick skills are sharp. I would say that -- rightly or wrongly -- North's media prominence will be a factor in making the team. Every interview and story I've seen mentions growing the game and engaging young girls with US Lacrosse. Even the main landing page for the team mentions this. North is the largest media presence and the best-known name in the sport for girls under the age of 18. Again, rightly or wrongly, that crowd will be severely disappointed if she doesn't make the team.

The first para made me chuckle as my dad was such a father who never did understand the rules when my sister or his granddaughters were playing, yet was quite vocal...much to the chagrin of the gals...

I agree that North's prominence publicly is likely a factor, and of course she's a heck a ball player. Just not a guarantee.

On all the back and forth, and especially the allusions to Nazi Germany, this is well known to be fraught territory, but I'm not with the crew that says we can never talk about bullying, or authoritarian tactics, and mention that example...but we should always make clear whether we are actually equating such or not. I don't think or assume that was your intention and I wouldn't have taken it that way, but I do understand why it flipped a switch. My advice to anyone using a quote like you did to make a point would be better served to follow it with an explanation that one isn't equating the atrocities, simply the logic eg 'might makes right', 'bully boy tactics' etc.

Again, I think these topics are far better discussed civilly, though nothing wrong with people being vehement in their views.

Love the image of your dad in a worn Virginia letterman's sweater working the refs in a girls youth game.

Sorry to be paranoid -- but such is the world today -- but I just wanted to make clear that I was not the one to make the Nazi reference. I have said lots of other foolish stuff, but that one was not mine.

[Cletus]

Sorry to be paranoid -- but such is the world today -- but I just wanted to make clear that I was not the one to make the Nazi reference. I have said lots of other foolish stuff, but that one was not mine.

I think MDlax is aware of that, CO. I owned to it in the previous post above.

[Can Opener]

Sorry to be paranoid -- but such is the world today -- but I just wanted to make clear that I was not the one to make the Nazi reference. I have said lots of other foolish stuff, but that one was not mine.

I think MDlax is aware of that, CO. I owned to it in the previous post above.

Good point. I may have been too quick on the trigger finger.

[Cletus]

Sorry to be paranoid -- but such is the world today -- but I just wanted to make clear that I was not the one to make the Nazi reference. I have said lots of other foolish stuff, but that one was not mine.

I think MDlax is aware of that, CO. I owned to it in the previous post above.

Good point. I may have been too quick on the trigger finger.

It’s all good, CO. I appreciate your posts and humor on these boards. You’re a welcome edition to FanLax.

[MDlaxfan76]

And peace breaks out!

[njbill]

After having given this some thought for the better part of a week, I’ve decided to no longer participate on FanLax. This is my last post. Admin, delete my user account.

I don’t like personal attacks, but have always fought my own battles. As I’ve said, I’ve never reported a post in almost 20 years at LaxPower and now FanLax. I don’t think it’s good manners to do so. That’s not how I was raised, to use a phrase that’s become popular of late. If you have a problem, deal with it and resolve it yourself.

I suffered through a week of abuse without taking the bait, though I did tell the poster after his first “creepy” comment that I thought he was crossing a line. After that week, I posted that I had no interest in discussing anything with a stranger who called me “creepy.” I said I had never reported a post, but was tempted to do so in this instance. Those posts were my way of requesting the poster to back off and alerting admin that he needed to get control of things.

Admin did nothing. The poster did not back off, but within the hour after my second one continued the attacks (“hater,” “cowardly,” “vendetta,” “personal animosity.”). A couple of hours later, more abuse. Admin still did nothing.

The poster went relatively quiet for a period, but picked up his blowtorch again, two weeks later. At that point, I’d had enough and, yes, lost my cool. I wrote the “unhealthy infatuation” post. No response from admin to this post.

Some minutes later I posted that I minded creepy, ad hominem attacks (my third such message in this vein). To which admin responded: “agreed. Let’s be mindful of personal attacks.” Admin considers that to be a warning to me, as do some other posters. Hard to understand why a (legitimate) complaint about personal attacks can or should serve as the basis for a warning to me.

Some posters have referenced my “unhealthy infatuation” post. But that post was not admin’s basis for the warning or the subsequent suspension. Had that been the case, you’d have gotten no argument from me about a warning or suspension. I’d have taken my medicine. But, again and importantly, that isn’t what happened here. If admin considered that post to be the basis for the warning, he should have said so or quoted it, instead of quoting a different post which (reasonably) created the impression that that was the post necessitating the warning in his view.

So, OK, let’s say that was a legitimate warning directed at me. You then get to the next issue, which is whether the post I was suspended for warranted a suspension. I wrote to Larry: “you are wasting your time on this can opener. He thinks Charlotte North is the best player of all time, and no one can tell him otherwise.”

Does that mild post warrant a suspension, whether or not there had been a prior warning? No. Not in a million years in my view. I, myself, have probably written scores of posts worse than that. On FanLax, you could find 1000s.

While I don’t like the personal attacks, that’s not why I am leaving. I’ve leaving because of admin’s handling of this. His inconsistent moderation in my case and others is unprincipled, unfair, and just plain wrong. He suspends me for a benign post (I challenge anyone to find a milder post that has been the subject of a FanLax suspension), yet Can Opener goes unpunished. Admin says a poster must keep his side of the street clean in order to be entitled to administrative relief. Can Opener kept his side of the road clean? Huh? Beyond absurd.

But the piece de resistance? Citing Cletus – CLETUS? – as the spokesperson for proper forum decorum. That was just beyond the pale.

People are getting flagged for the most ridiculous things. 8meterPA gets penalized for commenting on the women’s forum troll when the troll, himself, acknowledges he’s a troll and says he revels in his troll-ish behavior. How ludicrous is that? Another poster who has commented in this thread has repeatedly called someone a troll elsewhere on FanLax, yet he has never been sanctioned. (Not saying he should; just pointing out the inconsistency.)

I see that Cletus has now resumed his trolling (among other things accusing posters of “intimidating” others). 8meterPA, DMac, and seacoaster have properly called him out. Admin has done nothing about Cletus' continued trolling.

DMac (rightly) calls out Cletus for saying posters “can go pound sand.” What happens? DMac gets sent to the pen. Cletus goes unpunished.

A couple of posters have complained privately to me about Cletus. I said that for some reason, he didn’t bother me. But they were right and, boy, was I wrong. He’s become the scourge of the women’s board, arguably a cancer. He says the site should have “zero tolerance.” Huh? Cletus wants zero tolerance? Aside from the fact that when FanLax was started, they said the rules would be looser than LaxPower’s – and certainly not “zero tolerance” – how many of his posts would be whacked under such a rule?

It’s a strange world when 8meterPA, DMac, and I get suspended and Can Opener and Cletus do not. Again, gross inconsistencies. At least CO fessed up to having reported my posts. Cletus (the other person who obviously did so), are you going to do the same?

A few days ago Mr. Zero Tolerance called me a bully and an intimidator, referencing Hitler and the Nazis. He said he was referring to the “larger issue of bullying and intimidation and insults on these boards, not just what went on between CO and Jersey.” Not just. Well, not just means “including.” Nor did he add the usual disclaimer – if that is what he meant – that his comments did not apply to me. So they did. At least that’s how I read them. Has admin taken any action? No. That Cletus later deleted those comments is pretty compelling evidence he knew they were inappropriate.

DMac is right. Cletus is admin’s fair-haired boy. And to repeat – and this one boggles my mind more than anything else in this whole mess – admin calls Cletus’ view on proper forum etiquette “spot on.” Sir, you are woefully out of touch with the women’s board. If you are going to continue to moderate here, I suggest you take some time to familiarize yourself with the posts and posters. Or find someone who has the temperament and judgment to do the job properly and even handedly.

This site is supposed to be fun. It is no longer fun for me. It has become aggravating and a drag. Admin says: “Our goal is to make this party enjoyable for everyone.” How ironic. It certainly is no longer enjoyable for me. So I am out of here. I just can’t fight City Hall, that is, an admin who metes out inconsistent punishments while at the same time allowing his “favorites” to write whatever they want. I can’t and won’t abide such a system.

To those who supported me (on this site and off-line) while I was in the sin bin and afterwards, thank you. Very much appreciated. Very, very much. I owe you a beer or 12. To my many forum friends and acquaintances whom I’ve come to know over the years (“some are dead and some are living”), thanks for the dialogue. It has been entertaining, informative, educational, and a real pleasure. Fortunately, I know some of you in real life (wish it were more) so I hope I’ll be seeing you on the lacrosse fields. Happy trails.

[JoeMauer89]

After having given this some thought for the better part of a week, I’ve decided to no longer participate on FanLax. This is my last post. Admin, delete my user account.

I don’t like personal attacks, but have always fought my own battles. As I’ve said, I’ve never reported a post in almost 20 years at LaxPower and now FanLax. I don’t think it’s good manners to do so. That’s not how I was raised, to use a phrase that’s become popular of late. If you have a problem, deal with it and resolve it yourself.

I suffered through a week of abuse without taking the bait, though I did tell the poster after his first “creepy” comment that I thought he was crossing a line. After that week, I posted that I had no interest in discussing anything with a stranger who called me “creepy.” I said I had never reported a post, but was tempted to do so in this instance. Those posts were my way of requesting the poster to back off and alerting admin that he needed to get control of things.

Admin did nothing. The poster did not back off, but within the hour after my second one continued the attacks (“hater,” “cowardly,” “vendetta,” “personal animosity.”). A couple of hours later, more abuse. Admin still did nothing.

The poster went relatively quiet for a period, but picked up his blowtorch again, two weeks later. At that point, I’d had enough and, yes, lost my cool. I wrote the “unhealthy infatuation” post. No response from admin to this post.

Some minutes later I posted that I minded creepy, ad hominem attacks (my third such message in this vein). To which admin responded: “agreed. Let’s be mindful of personal attacks.” Admin considers that to be a warning to me, as do some other posters. Hard to understand why a (legitimate) complaint about personal attacks can or should serve as the basis for a warning to me.

Some posters have referenced my “unhealthy infatuation” post. But that post was not admin’s basis for the warning or the subsequent suspension. Had that been the case, you’d have gotten no argument from me about a warning or suspension. I’d have taken my medicine. But, again and importantly, that isn’t what happened here. If admin considered that post to be the basis for the warning, he should have said so or quoted it, instead of quoting a different post which (reasonably) created the impression that that was the post necessitating the warning in his view.

So, OK, let’s say that was a legitimate warning directed at me. You then get to the next issue, which is whether the post I was suspended for warranted a suspension. I wrote to Larry: “you are wasting your time on this can opener. He thinks Charlotte North is the best player of all time, and no one can tell him otherwise.”

Does that mild post warrant a suspension, whether or not there had been a prior warning? No. Not in a million years in my view. I, myself, have probably written scores of posts worse than that. On FanLax, you could find 1000s.

While I don’t like the personal attacks, that’s not why I am leaving. I’ve leaving because of admin’s handling of this. His inconsistent moderation in my case and others is unprincipled, unfair, and just plain wrong. He suspends me for a benign post (I challenge anyone to find a milder post that has been the subject of a FanLax suspension), yet Can Opener goes unpunished. Admin says a poster must keep his side of the street clean in order to be entitled to administrative relief. Can Opener kept his side of the road clean? Huh? Beyond absurd.

But the piece de resistance? Citing Cletus – CLETUS? – as the spokesperson for proper forum decorum. That was just beyond the pale.

People are getting flagged for the most ridiculous things. 8meterPA gets penalized for commenting on the women’s forum troll when the troll, himself, acknowledges he’s a troll and says he revels in his troll-ish behavior. How ludicrous is that? Another poster who has commented in this thread has repeatedly called someone a troll elsewhere on FanLax, yet he has never been sanctioned. (Not saying he should; just pointing out the inconsistency.)

I see that Cletus has now resumed his trolling (among other things accusing posters of “intimidating” others). 8meterPA, DMac, and seacoaster have properly called him out. Admin has done nothing about Cletus' continued trolling.

DMac (rightly) calls out Cletus for saying posters “can go pound sand.” What happens? DMac gets sent to the pen. Cletus goes unpunished.

A couple of posters have complained privately to me about Cletus. I said that for some reason, he didn’t bother me. But they were right and, boy, was I wrong. He’s become the scourge of the women’s board, arguably a cancer. He says the site should have “zero tolerance.” Huh? Cletus wants zero tolerance? Aside from the fact that when FanLax was started, they said the rules would be looser than LaxPower’s – and certainly not “zero tolerance” – how many of his posts would be whacked under such a rule?

It’s a strange world when 8meterPA, DMac, and I get suspended and Can Opener and Cletus do not. Again, gross inconsistencies. At least CO fessed up to having reported my posts. Cletus (the other person who obviously did so), are you going to do the same?

A few days ago Mr. Zero Tolerance called me a bully and an intimidator, referencing Hitler and the Nazis. He said he was referring to the “larger issue of bullying and intimidation and insults on these boards, not just what went on between CO and Jersey.” Not just. Well, not just means “including.” Nor did he add the usual disclaimer – if that is what he meant – that his comments did not apply to me. So they did. At least that’s how I read them. Has admin taken any action? No. That Cletus later deleted those comments is pretty compelling evidence he knew they were inappropriate.

DMac is right. Cletus is admin’s fair-haired boy. And to repeat – and this one boggles my mind more than anything else in this whole mess – admin calls Cletus’ view on proper forum etiquette “spot on.” Sir, you are woefully out of touch with the women’s board. If you are going to continue to moderate here, I suggest you take some time to familiarize yourself with the posts and posters. Or find someone who has the temperament and judgment to do the job properly and even handedly.

This site is supposed to be fun. It is no longer fun for me. It has become aggravating and a drag. Admin says: “Our goal is to make this party enjoyable for everyone.” How ironic. It certainly is no longer enjoyable for me. So I am out of here. I just can’t fight City Hall, that is, an admin who metes out inconsistent punishments while at the same time allowing his “favorites” to write whatever they want. I can’t and won’t abide such a system.

To those who supported me (on this site and off-line) while I was in the sin bin and afterwards, thank you. Very much appreciated. Very, very much. I owe you a beer or 12. To my many forum friends and acquaintances whom I’ve come to know over the years (“some are dead and some are living”), thanks for the dialogue. It has been entertaining, informative, educational, and a real pleasure. Fortunately, I know some of you in real life (wish it were more) so I hope I’ll be seeing you on the lacrosse fields. Happy trails.

njbill,

We have had our differences in the past, but I respect more than most posters on this site. I am sad to see you go. +10000 on the inconsistent doling out of punishments. The Admin needs to get a handle on this and do it soon, lest he risk losing more longtime site members. I'm no angel, but the inconsistency is downright mind boggling!

Joe

[MDlaxfan76]

After having given this some thought for the better part of a week, I’ve decided to no longer participate on FanLax. This is my last post. Admin, delete my user account.

I don’t like personal attacks, but have always fought my own battles. As I’ve said, I’ve never reported a post in almost 20 years at LaxPower and now FanLax. I don’t think it’s good manners to do so. That’s not how I was raised, to use a phrase that’s become popular of late. If you have a problem, deal with it and resolve it yourself.

I suffered through a week of abuse without taking the bait, though I did tell the poster after his first “creepy” comment that I thought he was crossing a line. After that week, I posted that I had no interest in discussing anything with a stranger who called me “creepy.” I said I had never reported a post, but was tempted to do so in this instance. Those posts were my way of requesting the poster to back off and alerting admin that he needed to get control of things.

Admin did nothing. The poster did not back off, but within the hour after my second one continued the attacks (“hater,” “cowardly,” “vendetta,” “personal animosity.”). A couple of hours later, more abuse. Admin still did nothing.

The poster went relatively quiet for a period, but picked up his blowtorch again, two weeks later. At that point, I’d had enough and, yes, lost my cool. I wrote the “unhealthy infatuation” post. No response from admin to this post.

Some minutes later I posted that I minded creepy, ad hominem attacks (my third such message in this vein). To which admin responded: “agreed. Let’s be mindful of personal attacks.” Admin considers that to be a warning to me, as do some other posters. Hard to understand why a (legitimate) complaint about personal attacks can or should serve as the basis for a warning to me.

Some posters have referenced my “unhealthy infatuation” post. But that post was not admin’s basis for the warning or the subsequent suspension. Had that been the case, you’d have gotten no argument from me about a warning or suspension. I’d have taken my medicine. But, again and importantly, that isn’t what happened here. If admin considered that post to be the basis for the warning, he should have said so or quoted it, instead of quoting a different post which (reasonably) created the impression that that was the post necessitating the warning in his view.

So, OK, let’s say that was a legitimate warning directed at me. You then get to the next issue, which is whether the post I was suspended for warranted a suspension. I wrote to Larry: “you are wasting your time on this can opener. He thinks Charlotte North is the best player of all time, and no one can tell him otherwise.”

Does that mild post warrant a suspension, whether or not there had been a prior warning? No. Not in a million years in my view. I, myself, have probably written scores of posts worse than that. On FanLax, you could find 1000s.

While I don’t like the personal attacks, that’s not why I am leaving. I’ve leaving because of admin’s handling of this. His inconsistent moderation in my case and others is unprincipled, unfair, and just plain wrong. He suspends me for a benign post (I challenge anyone to find a milder post that has been the subject of a FanLax suspension), yet Can Opener goes unpunished. Admin says a poster must keep his side of the street clean in order to be entitled to administrative relief. Can Opener kept his side of the road clean? Huh? Beyond absurd.

But the piece de resistance? Citing Cletus – CLETUS? – as the spokesperson for proper forum decorum. That was just beyond the pale.

People are getting flagged for the most ridiculous things. 8meterPA gets penalized for commenting on the women’s forum troll when the troll, himself, acknowledges he’s a troll and says he revels in his troll-ish behavior. How ludicrous is that? Another poster who has commented in this thread has repeatedly called someone a troll elsewhere on FanLax, yet he has never been sanctioned. (Not saying he should; just pointing out the inconsistency.)

I see that Cletus has now resumed his trolling (among other things accusing posters of “intimidating” others). 8meterPA, DMac, and seacoaster have properly called him out. Admin has done nothing about Cletus' continued trolling.

DMac (rightly) calls out Cletus for saying posters “can go pound sand.” What happens? DMac gets sent to the pen. Cletus goes unpunished.

A couple of posters have complained privately to me about Cletus. I said that for some reason, he didn’t bother me. But they were right and, boy, was I wrong. He’s become the scourge of the women’s board, arguably a cancer. He says the site should have “zero tolerance.” Huh? Cletus wants zero tolerance? Aside from the fact that when FanLax was started, they said the rules would be looser than LaxPower’s – and certainly not “zero tolerance” – how many of his posts would be whacked under such a rule?

It’s a strange world when 8meterPA, DMac, and I get suspended and Can Opener and Cletus do not. Again, gross inconsistencies. At least CO fessed up to having reported my posts. Cletus (the other person who obviously did so), are you going to do the same?

A few days ago Mr. Zero Tolerance called me a bully and an intimidator, referencing Hitler and the Nazis. He said he was referring to the “larger issue of bullying and intimidation and insults on these boards, not just what went on between CO and Jersey.” Not just. Well, not just means “including.” Nor did he add the usual disclaimer – if that is what he meant – that his comments did not apply to me. So they did. At least that’s how I read them. Has admin taken any action? No. That Cletus later deleted those comments is pretty compelling evidence he knew they were inappropriate.

DMac is right. Cletus is admin’s fair-haired boy. And to repeat – and this one boggles my mind more than anything else in this whole mess – admin calls Cletus’ view on proper forum etiquette “spot on.” Sir, you are woefully out of touch with the women’s board. If you are going to continue to moderate here, I suggest you take some time to familiarize yourself with the posts and posters. Or find someone who has the temperament and judgment to do the job properly and even handedly.

This site is supposed to be fun. It is no longer fun for me. It has become aggravating and a drag. Admin says: “Our goal is to make this party enjoyable for everyone.” How ironic. It certainly is no longer enjoyable for me. So I am out of here. I just can’t fight City Hall, that is, an admin who metes out inconsistent punishments while at the same time allowing his “favorites” to write whatever they want. I can’t and won’t abide such a system.

To those who supported me (on this site and off-line) while I was in the sin bin and afterwards, thank you. Very much appreciated. Very, very much. I owe you a beer or 12. To my many forum friends and acquaintances whom I’ve come to know over the years (“some are dead and some are living”), thanks for the dialogue. It has been entertaining, informative, educational, and a real pleasure. Fortunately, I know some of you in real life (wish it were more) so I hope I’ll be seeing you on the lacrosse fields. Happy trails.

njbill,

We have had our differences in the past, but I respect more than most posters on this site. I am sad to see you go. +10000 on the inconsistent doling out of punishments. The Admin needs to get a handle on this and do it soon, lest he risk losing more longtime site members. I'm no angel, but the inconsistency is downright mind boggling!

Joe

Joe and I frequently disagree and have had our scuffles , but I 100% agree with Joe that we would hate to see you go NJbill. You're a terrific contributor on all sorts of topics, well reasoned, and bring a heck of a lot to the table.

I don't know about the inconsistency aspects, don't frequent the women's boards enough to have tracked all this, but thought the 'transgression' seemed very mild relative to lots of stuff we've seen on the boards.

I'm quite in favor of trying to keep discussions civil, while keeping a light hand relative to what we had on LP which seemed rife with favoritism and arbitrary moderation.

So, while I do want an Admin/moderator to actually play that role...it needs to be done fairly and consistently, and with a warning before a penalty. I also think the Admin can't possibly read all the threads, so has to be supported by posters who flag exchanges as potentially out of bounds. I'm ok with that as well, though I do think stuff needs to get quite uncivil before it makes sense to ask for Admin's intervention (should he see it to be necessary). So, I'm quite willing to cut him some slack if he gets something wrong.

That said, your perception of favoritism and unfairness seems to be the most serious issue.

It takes quite a lot to get a more serious penalty, many days off the boards, so it seems to me someone has to be repeatedly way out of bounds to get there. But a minor infraction akin to being the guy who pushed last getting the flag (unfair, sure, but it happens) seems to me unlikely to be a pattern you'd fall into.

Again, really, really hope you reconsider.

[LarryGamLax]

Hope you guys are happy and proud of yourselves for driving njbill off the Forum. IT'S ABOUT LACROSSE...and it should never get personal!
Bill was one of the few LaxPower posters that came over to FanLax, along with myself and others. If you notice we do not have a lot of people posting on the Women's side. It's usually the same group of people and we can't afford to lose anyone. Well...that's been done because njbill is gone.

We need MORE posters, not less. Go look at the Men's Forum and ask yourself, "why can't we be like that?"

[Cletus]

Way unfair to blame admin in this. I’m sure it isn’t easy to have his own life, run this site and then have to referee the poo slinging that goes on—not only on these boards but on the other more volatile ones as well. As was said, admin can’t possibly read every post. The men’s lax side and the politics board alone are chugging every single day. He’s got his hands full just with them I’m sure.

I’m glad admin cracked down on the name calling and personal attacks. It Sucks getting attacked because folks don’t like your take. No, really—it SUCKS! I put up with it for years and it’s nice to have some justice dispensed.

I also came over from Lax Pro. So I know about the heavy handedness and favoritism that existed there. FanLax is a world better.

For my part, I enjoyed Bill too. He and I had our spats over the years but I think we got on fairly well. I’m sad to see him go.

FanLax is growing all the time. The 3000 member milestone was passed a short time ago. With women’s lacrosse growing out there, it only stands to reason it will grow in here on these boards as well. We have new members who are contributing which is a breath of fresh air. We need that. Badlands said a long while back that the women’s lacrosse boards consist of about nine old guys, to paraphrase. I think that’s changing and will continue to change as FL grows.

As Larry alleged, personal attacks are the cause here and I agree wholeheartedly with him. Too much of that has gone on unchecked for years. It’s a relief that it finally got cracked down on. Admin enforced the charter statement. He should be commended, not blamed for that. Admin always gave warnings before he blew the whistle. You could look it up. It’s grossly unfair to accuse him of inconsistency or favoritism. I’ve been warned by admin a couple of times myself. You could look that up too. The difference was I listened to him and amended my tone and words toward other members in my posts going forward. I’ve learned to ignore posts from a certain few on here to keep the peace. When I see their quote posts now under something I wrote, I pass over it with nary a glance.

All part of growing and growing pains on FanLax. Slowly but surely, these boards are expanding to include all lacrosse fans, regardless of their background or experience with lacrosse or how they express themselves. Admin has appealed to all of us to discuss issues, not post-ers. Over and over he has made that appeal. He shouldn’t be blamed when his appeals were ignored and he was forced to blow the whistle.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again—admin and his staff are doing a bang up job here.

[Bart]

After having given this some thought for the better part of a week, I’ve decided to no longer participate on FanLax. This is my last post. Admin, delete my user account.

I don’t like personal attacks, but have always fought my own battles. As I’ve said, I’ve never reported a post in almost 20 years at LaxPower and now FanLax. I don’t think it’s good manners to do so. That’s not how I was raised, to use a phrase that’s become popular of late. If you have a problem, deal with it and resolve it yourself.

I suffered through a week of abuse without taking the bait, though I did tell the poster after his first “creepy” comment that I thought he was crossing a line. After that week, I posted that I had no interest in discussing anything with a stranger who called me “creepy.” I said I had never reported a post, but was tempted to do so in this instance. Those posts were my way of requesting the poster to back off and alerting admin that he needed to get control of things.

Admin did nothing. The poster did not back off, but within the hour after my second one continued the attacks (“hater,” “cowardly,” “vendetta,” “personal animosity.”). A couple of hours later, more abuse. Admin still did nothing.

The poster went relatively quiet for a period, but picked up his blowtorch again, two weeks later. At that point, I’d had enough and, yes, lost my cool. I wrote the “unhealthy infatuation” post. No response from admin to this post.

Some minutes later I posted that I minded creepy, ad hominem attacks (my third such message in this vein). To which admin responded: “agreed. Let’s be mindful of personal attacks.” Admin considers that to be a warning to me, as do some other posters. Hard to understand why a (legitimate) complaint about personal attacks can or should serve as the basis for a warning to me.

Some posters have referenced my “unhealthy infatuation” post. But that post was not admin’s basis for the warning or the subsequent suspension. Had that been the case, you’d have gotten no argument from me about a warning or suspension. I’d have taken my medicine. But, again and importantly, that isn’t what happened here. If admin considered that post to be the basis for the warning, he should have said so or quoted it, instead of quoting a different post which (reasonably) created the impression that that was the post necessitating the warning in his view.

So, OK, let’s say that was a legitimate warning directed at me. You then get to the next issue, which is whether the post I was suspended for warranted a suspension. I wrote to Larry: “you are wasting your time on this can opener. He thinks Charlotte North is the best player of all time, and no one can tell him otherwise.”

Does that mild post warrant a suspension, whether or not there had been a prior warning? No. Not in a million years in my view. I, myself, have probably written scores of posts worse than that. On FanLax, you could find 1000s.

While I don’t like the personal attacks, that’s not why I am leaving. I’ve leaving because of admin’s handling of this. His inconsistent moderation in my case and others is unprincipled, unfair, and just plain wrong. He suspends me for a benign post (I challenge anyone to find a milder post that has been the subject of a FanLax suspension), yet Can Opener goes unpunished. Admin says a poster must keep his side of the street clean in order to be entitled to administrative relief. Can Opener kept his side of the road clean? Huh? Beyond absurd.

But the piece de resistance? Citing Cletus – CLETUS? – as the spokesperson for proper forum decorum. That was just beyond the pale.

People are getting flagged for the most ridiculous things. 8meterPA gets penalized for commenting on the women’s forum troll when the troll, himself, acknowledges he’s a troll and says he revels in his troll-ish behavior. How ludicrous is that? Another poster who has commented in this thread has repeatedly called someone a troll elsewhere on FanLax, yet he has never been sanctioned. (Not saying he should; just pointing out the inconsistency.)

I see that Cletus has now resumed his trolling (among other things accusing posters of “intimidating” others). 8meterPA, DMac, and seacoaster have properly called him out. Admin has done nothing about Cletus' continued trolling.

DMac (rightly) calls out Cletus for saying posters “can go pound sand.” What happens? DMac gets sent to the pen. Cletus goes unpunished.

A couple of posters have complained privately to me about Cletus. I said that for some reason, he didn’t bother me. But they were right and, boy, was I wrong. He’s become the scourge of the women’s board, arguably a cancer. He says the site should have “zero tolerance.” Huh? Cletus wants zero tolerance? Aside from the fact that when FanLax was started, they said the rules would be looser than LaxPower’s – and certainly not “zero tolerance” – how many of his posts would be whacked under such a rule?

It’s a strange world when 8meterPA, DMac, and I get suspended and Can Opener and Cletus do not. Again, gross inconsistencies. At least CO fessed up to having reported my posts. Cletus (the other person who obviously did so), are you going to do the same?

A few days ago Mr. Zero Tolerance called me a bully and an intimidator, referencing Hitler and the Nazis. He said he was referring to the “larger issue of bullying and intimidation and insults on these boards, not just what went on between CO and Jersey.” Not just. Well, not just means “including.” Nor did he add the usual disclaimer – if that is what he meant – that his comments did not apply to me. So they did. At least that’s how I read them. Has admin taken any action? No. That Cletus later deleted those comments is pretty compelling evidence he knew they were inappropriate.

DMac is right. Cletus is admin’s fair-haired boy. And to repeat – and this one boggles my mind more than anything else in this whole mess – admin calls Cletus’ view on proper forum etiquette “spot on.” Sir, you are woefully out of touch with the women’s board. If you are going to continue to moderate here, I suggest you take some time to familiarize yourself with the posts and posters. Or find someone who has the temperament and judgment to do the job properly and even handedly.

This site is supposed to be fun. It is no longer fun for me. It has become aggravating and a drag. Admin says: “Our goal is to make this party enjoyable for everyone.” How ironic. It certainly is no longer enjoyable for me. So I am out of here. I just can’t fight City Hall, that is, an admin who metes out inconsistent punishments while at the same time allowing his “favorites” to write whatever they want. I can’t and won’t abide such a system.

To those who supported me (on this site and off-line) while I was in the sin bin and afterwards, thank you. Very much appreciated. Very, very much. I owe you a beer or 12. To my many forum friends and acquaintances whom I’ve come to know over the years (“some are dead and some are living”), thanks for the dialogue. It has been entertaining, informative, educational, and a real pleasure. Fortunately, I know some of you in real life (wish it were more) so I hope I’ll be seeing you on the lacrosse fields. Happy trails.

Good bye Bill. Too bad to see you do. Your insight into NJ lax was always appreciated.

[Cletus]

I’ve learned to ignore posts from a certain few on here to keep the peace. When I see their quote posts now under something I wrote, I pass over it with nary a glance.

Slight amendation—whether it’s a quote post or not, I pass right on over.

[MDlaxfan76]

Hope you guys are happy and proud of yourselves for driving njbill off the Forum. IT'S ABOUT LACROSSE...and it should never get personal!
Bill was one of the few LaxPower posters that came over to FanLax, along with myself and others. If you notice we do not have a lot of people posting on the Women's side. It's usually the same group of people and we can't afford to lose anyone. Well...that's been done because njbill is gone.

We need MORE posters, not less. Go look at the Men's Forum and ask yourself, "why can't we be like that?"

+1
And to be clear, we want more posters on the Men's side too!

[MDlaxfan76]

Way unfair to blame admin in this. I’m sure it isn’t easy to have his own life, run this site and then have to referee the poo slinging that goes on—not only on these boards but on the other more volatile ones as well. As was said, admin can’t possibly read every post. The men’s lax side and the politics board alone are chugging every single day. He’s got his hands full just with them I’m sure.

I’m glad admin cracked down on the name calling and personal attacks. It Sucks getting attacked because folks don’t like your take. No, really—it SUCKS! I put up with it for years and it’s nice to have some justice dispensed.

I also came over from Lax Pro. So I know about the heavy handedness and favoritism that existed there. FanLax is a world better.

For my part, I enjoyed Bill too. He and I had our spats over the years but I think we got on fairly well. I’m sad to see him go.

FanLax is growing all the time. The 3000 member milestone was passed a short time ago. With women’s lacrosse growing out there, it only stands to reason it will grow in here on these boards as well. We have new members who are contributing which is a breath of fresh air. We need that. Badlands said a long while back that the women’s lacrosse boards consist of about nine old guys, to paraphrase. I think that’s changing and will continue to change as FL grows.

As Larry alleged, personal attacks are the cause here and I agree wholeheartedly with him. Too much of that has gone on unchecked for years. It’s a relief that it finally got cracked down on. Admin enforced the charter statement. He should be commended, not blamed for that. Admin always gave warnings before he blew the whistle. You could look it up. It’s grossly unfair to accuse him of inconsistency or favoritism. I’ve been warned by admin a couple of times myself. You could look that up too. The difference was I listened to him and amended my tone and words toward other members in my posts going forward. I’ve learned to ignore posts from a certain few on here to keep the peace. When I see their quote posts now under something I wrote, I pass over it with nary a glance.

All part of growing and growing pains on FanLax. Slowly but surely, these boards are expanding to include all lacrosse fans, regardless of their background or experience with lacrosse or how they express themselves. Admin has appealed to all of us to discuss issues, not post-ers. Over and over he has made that appeal. He shouldn’t be blamed when his appeals were ignored and he was forced to blow the whistle.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again—admin and his staff are doing a bang up job here.

LaxPower not Lax Pro, but I agree in your general support of Admin's efforts to provide an arena for civil discussion.

However, we don't want posters who express themselves directly and vehemently at times to be made to feel unwelcome, simply because they disagree and call others out where they disagree. It sounds like there was a bunch of that going on, over sensitivities, thin skins.

Trust me, the sorts of back and forth that led to this violation and penalty were really, really mild in comparison to what regularly occurs in the Men's side and even more so on the Politics threads.

While the overall enrollment is growing, we're way below the critical mass of active contributors that will make these forums really useful and most interesting.

Having knowledgeable, active participants leave is a big loss.

[DMac]

Skip over this one too, Cletus, but others will read it just as they read about the cancer and piece de resistance.
They read this insincere PC garbage as well, " I’m sad to see him go." The one you label as a bully and
intimidator (absolute nonsense) who views you as a cancer and the main reason for bowing out you're
sad to see go. You selling bridges too? Long time reasonable, respected, and knowledgeable poster gone sighting you as the main reason why. Pat yourself on the back for that one, another one gone because of you.

Truly sad to see you go, njb, we'll welcome you back with open arms if you change your mind.
This situation was handled poorly and your assessment of it all is pretty dead nuts on the money.