njbill - 1 Minute (2 Day) Penalty

[admin]

Larry, I, for one, appreciate the history lesson, but you are wasting your time on this can opener. He thinks Charlotte North is the best player of all time, and no one can tell him otherwise.

And for goodness sake, he had never heard of Megan Whittle.

Tweeeeeet! njbill, 1 Minute (2 Day) Penalty. Your penalty will be up on Saturday, June 19th, at 11:34 AM EST. Discuss posts, ideas, opinions, etc., not post-ers. And, for sure, do not attack post-ers. (As a semi-aside, LarryGam, I do not believe that Can Opener is disrespecting you. And it's appreciated that you're asking him if he is as opposed to attacking him. And...) Tweeeet! Play on...

[DMac]

Need a lawyer, njb?
I don't have the sheepskin but I do have plenty of experience here.
Be safe and don't eat the mashed potatoes, there's saltpeter in 'em.
DMac

[njbill]

Larry, I, for one, appreciate the history lesson, but you are wasting your time on this can opener. He thinks Charlotte North is the best player of all time, and no one can tell him otherwise.

And for goodness sake, he had never heard of Megan Whittle.

Tweeeeeet! njbill, 1 Minute (2 Day) Penalty. Your penalty will be up on Saturday, June 19th, at 11:34 AM EST. Discuss posts, ideas, opinions, etc., not post-ers. And, for sure, do not attack post-ers. (As a semi-aside, LarryGam, I do not believe that Can Opener is disrespecting you. And it's appreciated that you're asking him if he is as opposed to attacking him. And...) Tweeeet! Play on...

admin, I sent you an email around noon today. Did you get it and, if so, are you going to respond? TIA.

[admin]

I did not get a PM from you. Sorry.

[njbill]

I sent you an email using the email button under admin. I didn’t send a PM as I don’t see anywhere that admin can be PM’d.

I just sent you another email. If you don't get it, please provide me with a method to communicate with you.

[admin]

I did not receive an e-mail. PM me. Or type your message here.

[njbill]

I sent you two emails yesterday using the email button under admin. Both times I clicked on the “send email to admin” button, typed in the email, and hit send. Each time I got a message that the email had been successfully sent. Don’t know why you didn’t get them.

I didn’t send a PM as I don’t see anywhere that admin can be PM’d. If there is a way to PM you that isn’t evident from your admin page, I don’t know what it is.

I am following your request to put my communication on this penalty box page.

Beginning on May 29, Can Opener has posted a number of comments (listed below) labeling me as “creepy,” etc. I consider these to be ad hominem attacks, as I think would any reasonable person. There isn’t really much space between expressly calling someone “creepy” and saying what they write is “creepy.” Both are attacks on the poster.

Between May 29 and June 3, his posts included the following comments about me:

• “really creepy”
• “kinda weird”
• “absurd”
• “I really don’t have enough time or crayons to explain”
• “wacky diatribe”
• “it is creepy”
• “what kind of middle aged man spends his energy publicly seeking to tear down a remarkable young woman”
• “I would suggest that you honestly assess why you feel so energized and excited to pursue this vendetta”
• “kinda kooky commentary”
• “futile rant”
• “there is not a substantive explanation for why a grown man would continue to research obscure topics and label a young woman’s performance as pathetic”
• “hater”
• “kinda weird”
• “what you are too embarrassed or cowardly to do is acknowledge that your vendetta is strangely personal”
• “it is absolutely beyond me why a grown man is so gleefully criticizing this person”
• “it is personal animosity”
• “why [do you] think a grown man is so singularly focused on ripping a young woman”
• “odd fixation”

I did not respond in kind at that time. On June 3, I wrote:

“I have no interest in discussing anything with some stranger who calls me "creepy" and "weird," particularly someone who knowingly and repeatedly misrepresents my posts.

In nearly 20 years on LaxPower and now Fanlax, I have never reported a post. I've been tempted a few times, as I am now. I'll just leave it at that.”

You took no action with respect to his above posts. If any of his posts (or mine) during this May 29 to June 3 period violated forum rules, I would have expected action to be taken. When it wasn’t, it appeared you evidently were allowing us to have at each other (both big boys who could defend themselves).

Things seemed to have died down, but then he started up again with this post from June 16.

• “when will you give up the ghost,” attaching a meme the purpose of which was to suggest I’m acting like Joe McCarthy

At that point I had had enough. Comparing me to McCarthy, which in effect suggested I was libeling Charlotte North as McCarthy did to so many people, was the last straw for me. I then wrote an intemperate post later that day about his unhealthy infatuation with her. To which he responded:

• “it’s really amusing to watch people publicly soil themselves”

I responded to a third poster, complaining about the ad hominem attacks from Can Opener. You quoted that post in a response which I took to be a message to Can Opener to back off. If, as a poster suggested this morning, it was intended to be some type of warning to me, frankly it didn’t come across that way, and I didn’t read it like that.

In the post yesterday for which I was suspended, I said to Larry: “you are wasting your time on this can opener. He thinks Charlotte North is the best player of all time, and no one can tell him otherwise.”

While I acknowledge there is some history prior to that post, the post was quite tame when compared to the above list and, indeed, my post about Can Opener’s infatuation with North. But more fundamentally, you had allowed that long list of posts to go uncommented upon and unpunished. So it seemed to me that the dialogue was fair game and wasn’t in violation of any rules. Had any lines been crossed, one would think you would have stepped in.

At LaxPower the moderators regularly read the posts. If they thought a post was out of line, they would take some action. Do you (or does a moderator) read posts at FanLax or do you only take action if someone reports a post? I certainly hope the procedure here isn’t that a poster may disparage another poster on and on, but that poster isn’t unpunished as long as no one complains.

If that is the way you intend for things to work here, I submit there is a flaw in your system. Such a process tends to create the impression that a certain level of dialogue is OK if it appears regularly in these pages without being flagged. In effect, the same type of conduct goes unpunished the majority of the time and is only whistled if someone says something to admin.

I joined LaxPower in 2003 or 2004. I never reported a post there or on FanLax and was never suspended by LaxPower for anything I wrote. It is against my nature to “rat” people out, but is also in my nature to defend myself when attacked.

Bottom line is that if my post warranted suspension, then those written by Can Opener in the above list do as well. They are either both OK or both not OK. It can’t be that mine warrants suspension while Can Opener’s don’t.

Alternatively, if you require that I officially “report” Can Opener’s offensive posts, I will do so, even though I would prefer to deal with him directly. Please advise.

Lastly, was my suspension prompted by a moderator reading posts (without a report from a poster) or by a report from the poster in question (or in fact another poster to whom the posts weren’t even directed)? If the latter, I would ask that the poster’s identity be provided to me. It’s only fair that one be informed of one’s accusers.

Thank you.

[MDlaxfan76]

Need a lawyer, njb?
I don't have the sheepskin but I do have plenty of experience here.
Be safe and don't eat the mashed potatoes, there's saltpeter in 'em.
DMac

DMac

Admin, was there a warning before this penalty?
Sure seemed like a minor brush, not a slash...unless there were multiple such and an ignored warning.

[Tommy No]

Admin, was there a warning before this penalty?
Sure seemed like a minor brush, not a slash...unless there were multiple such and an ignored warning.

Multiple back and forths, Admin stepped in and asked for the personal attacks to stop, and... Sure enough.

[MDlaxfan76]

Admin, was there a warning before this penalty?
Sure seemed like a minor brush, not a slash...unless there were multiple such and an ignored warning.

Multiple back and forths, Admin stepped in and asked for the personal attacks to stop, and... Sure enough.

ok.

[8meterPA]

not sure I would call them "personal attacks", that's quite a stretch. NJ, are you getting your 3 squares?

[Tommy No]

not sure I would call them "personal attacks", that's quite a stretch. NJ, are you getting your 3 squares?

njbill telling another post-er, "You have an unhealthy, unnatural infatuation with this young woman. You pour over her stats again and again. You check her social media. And you call me creepy?" Not a personal attack?...

[MDlaxfan76]

not sure I would call them "personal attacks", that's quite a stretch. NJ, are you getting your 3 squares?

njbill telling another post-er, "You have an unhealthy, unnatural infatuation with this young woman. You pour over her stats again and again. You check her social media. And you call me creepy?" Not a personal attack?...

still, pretty lightweight in comparison to some of the egregious behavior.

As I said, a "brush" not really a "slash".

They were debating a rather strong statement made (which at a minimum is arguable) and there's some jostling back and forth. Poster A calls poster B "creepy", and Poster B fires back.

But no one really goes off. IMO.

But if a warning had been issued, ok, take the flag.
Last 'brush' gets the flag.

[Tommy No]

But if a warning had been issued, ok, take the flag. Last 'brush' gets the flag.

For sure there was a warning and, after the warning... a poster didn't let it go. What I don't know for sure, but I'd guess was the case, is that there was a complaint from a post-er before Admin issued the warning. Again, I don't know this for sure but I think Admin acts based on objective metrics but also on individual posters subjective experience. So if a poster feels attacked, Admin will take a look and, if reasonable, will ask for the room to cool down.

[MDlaxfan76]

But if a warning had been issued, ok, take the flag. Last 'brush' gets the flag.

For sure there was a warning and, after the warning... a poster didn't let it go. What I don't know for sure, but I'd guess was the case, is that there was a complaint from a post-er before Admin issued the warning. Again, I don't know this for sure but I think Admin acts based on objective metrics but also on individual posters subjective experience. So if a poster feels attacked, Admin will take a look and, if reasonable, will ask for the room to cool down.

And I'm in favor of that. We really do want to be able have discussions civilly.

I just read most of that thread and I see how folks got irked with one another. Testy.
And I'm not so sure that Bill was solely not letting 'it go', post warning. Still both jostling.

But this really does pale in comparison to some of the nasty stuff that goes on in other threads, thus my saying 'brush' versus 'slash'. But if the ref warns about 'brushes' then expect a penalty with the next observed 'brush'.

No argument there.

[Can Opener]

Once I received the warning, I was like Jack Nicholson after his electroshock therapy in Cuckoo's Nest. Gentle as a puppy dog.
Of course that's not his best line in this scene. The one about lighting up like a pinball machine is for the ages.

[Cletus]

Once I received the warning, I was like Jack Nicholson after his electroshock therapy in Cuckoo's Nest. Gentle as a puppy dog.
Of course that's not his best line in this scene. The one about lighting up like a pinball machine is for the ages.

Lots of great lines in that scene:

“The feebs brigade, you ding-a-lings. The mental defective league—in formation.”

[DMac]

But if a warning had been issued, ok, take the flag. Last 'brush' gets the flag.

For sure there was a warning and, after the warning... a poster didn't let it go. What I don't know for sure, but I'd guess was the case, is that there was a complaint from a post-er before Admin issued the warning. Again, I don't know this for sure but I think Admin acts based on objective metrics but also on individual posters subjective experience. So if a poster feels attacked, Admin will take a look and, if reasonable, will ask for the room to cool down.

And I'm in favor of that. We really do want to be able have discussions civilly.

I just read most of that thread and I see how folks got irked with one another. Testy.
And I'm not so sure that Bill was solely not letting 'it go', post warning. Still both jostling.

But this really does pale in comparison to some of the nasty stuff that goes on in other threads, thus my saying 'brush' versus 'slash'. But if the ref warns about 'brushes' then expect a penalty with the next observed 'brush'.

No argument there.

This was minor stuff and I agree, a "brush".
Hell, you and I have had much bigger spats than that (I, of course, being the less gentlemanly) and always managed to kiss and make up. This was a bad call by the official here. No ifs, ands, or buts about that.

[Cletus]

I don't think the severity of the comments is at issue. When the man says cool it, you cool it. If you keep it up, you have only yourself to blame. Can't say you weren't warned.

(And I mean "you" in the general sense.)

[admin]

What Cletus and others have typed is spot on. Post-ers have freedom within our forums which is a good thing. When a post-er's behavior is egregious or a repeat of previous penalties of this specific post-er, we throw a flag. In other cases, we simply make a warning about the behaviors and ask post-ers to take it down a notch. When post-ers do not, we throw a flag. As Cletus and others have pointed out, the latter is what happened in this case.

... if you require that I officially “report” Can Opener’s offensive posts, I will do so, even though I would prefer to deal with him directly. Please advise.

Please feel free to speak with post-ers directly. But, if you choose not to or if that post-er isn't being cooperative and continues to make your experience within the forum less enjoyable: (1) Keep your side of the street clean and (2) Report the post(s). Our goal is to make this party enjoyable for everyone. And the best way for us to know what is appropriate and what is not for the spectrum of individuals within our forum is by your telling us.

Lastly...It’s only fair that one be informed of one’s accusers.

We don't tell post-ers who reported which posts. Reported posts are reported anonymously.