January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[cradleandshoot]

Is the FLP in the room with us now?

If getting things wrong again and again makes you think you're both winning and messing with "the FLP"? Well I guess that explains a lot of the world we live in today.

Ron White said it best, and it applies to your posts.

Ron White said It very clearly. You can't fix stupid, stupid is forever... I betcha I've watched more Ron White than you. His funniest routine IMO was being thrown out of a bar and arrested in NYC. When reminiscing about it he made the statement that he had the right to remain silent but he didn't have the ability. I love messing with you people because your all so stupid and gullible and smart all at the same time. Thank you for being who you are, never change one bit. I love you just the way you are...

[old salt]

SCOTUS offered no opinion on that finding, 5 justices simply said that Congress needed to reach that finding as well in order to disqualify him under the 14th. I think they'd say the same for a conviction under 18 USC 2383, not disqualifying without Congressional action.

...that's just your opinion. A conviction under 18 USC 2383 has never come before the Supreme Court. Since that law was passed after the 14th Amendment, that could be considered enabling legislation.

Note what Chuck Rosenberg said @ 04:30 -- "there might be other ways for Federal Courts to breath life into the disqualification clause"...that sounds like a conviction under 18 USC 2383. We'll see how they rule after Gen Flynn is convicted. https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch ... 5472325786

Jack Smith could have charged trump under 18 USC 2383 & forced the Supreme Court to rule on the disqualification clause.

[MDlaxfan76]

SCOTUS offered no opinion on that finding, 5 justices simply said that Congress needed to reach that finding as well in order to disqualify him under the 14th. I think they'd say the same for a conviction under 18 USC 2383, not disqualifying without Congressional action.

...that's just your opinion. A conviction under 18 USC 2383 has never come before the Supreme Court. Since that law was passed after the 14th Amendment, that could be considered enabling legislation.

Note what Chuck Rosenberg said @ 04:30 -- "there might be other ways for Federal Courts to breath life into the disqualification clause"...that sounds like a conviction under 18 USC 2383. We'll see how they rule after Gen Flynn is convicted. https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch ... 5472325786

Jack Smith could have charged trump under 18 USC 2383 & forced the Supreme Court to rule on the disqualification clause.

"could have" has nothing to do with whether it'd have been prudent, given the duties of an apolitical Special Prosecutor.

As I keep saying, you guys want to create straw men at every turn instead of grapple with the reality that this prosecutor is prosecuting what he believes he can convince a jury 12-0. There's no justice benefit to charging under 2383, just political. You can't imagine that a prosecutor and an AG and a President wouldn't act as partisans. Because you'd be just fine if Trump and his AG did so, indeed did so.

Inviting a Constitutional debate would do nothing to putting Trump in jail for the many crimes he committed beyond his reasonable lifespan.

As to IF Flynn was to march, guns ablaze, I hope he'd be put down hard into his grave in the process.

[old salt]

As I keep saying, you guys want to create straw men at every turn instead of grapple with the reality that this prosecutor is prosecuting what he believes he can convince a jury 12-0. There's no justice benefit to charging under 2383, just political. You can't imagine that a prosecutor and an AG and a President wouldn't act as partisans. Because you'd be just fine if Trump and his AG did so, indeed did so.

Inviting a Constitutional debate would do nothing to putting Trump in jail for the many crimes he committed beyond his reasonable lifespan.

As to IF Flynn was to march, guns ablaze, I hope he'd be put down hard into his grave in the process.

There was indeed a justice benefit to charging Trump under 2383 & trying him before a hostile DC Jury, then forcing the Supremes to rule that the disqualification plain language in a law passed by Congress in 2383 is somehow unconstitutional.

What was there to lose ? It would have been due process & a lot more credible than the Jan 6 Congressional show trial & a bunch of whacked out state courts & Sec's of State's declaring Jan 6 an insurrection & trying to restrict access to the ballot for candidates running for national office.
Trump could have been convicted in DC under 2383, the Supreme's would have been hard pressed to overturn it, & we'd be rid of Trump.

Biden & the Dems didn't want Trump disqualified because they think he's the (R) candidate they have the best chance to defeat.
They could have disqualified him in 2021.

[a fan]

As I keep saying, you guys want to create straw men at every turn instead of grapple with the reality that this prosecutor is prosecuting what he believes he can convince a jury 12-0. There's no justice benefit to charging under 2383, just political. You can't imagine that a prosecutor and an AG and a President wouldn't act as partisans. Because you'd be just fine if Trump and his AG did so, indeed did so.

Inviting a Constitutional debate would do nothing to putting Trump in jail for the many crimes he committed beyond his reasonable lifespan.

As to IF Flynn was to march, guns ablaze, I hope he'd be put down hard into his grave in the process.

There was indeed a justice benefit to charging Trump under 2383 & trying him before a hostile DC Jury, then forcing the Supremes to rule that the disqualification plain language in a law passed by Congress in 2383 is somehow unconstitutional.

What was there to lose ? It would have been due process & a lot more credible than the Jan 6 Congressional show trial & a bunch of whacked out state courts & Sec's of State's declaring Jan 6 an insurrection & trying to restrict access to the ballot for candidates running for national office.
Trump could have been convicted in DC under 2383, the Supreme's would have been hard pressed to overturn it, & we'd be rid of Trump.

Biden & the Dems didn't want Trump disqualified because they think he's the (R) candidate they have the best chance to defeat.
They could have disqualified him in 2021.

And this is just YOUR opinion, being bandied about as fact.

Biden would SMOKE Haley, and she was the last standing.

It was up to you to get rid of Trump, OS. What happened? What did you and your pals do?

You told us every policy he had was awesome, even to this day. Yet you're on here, lying about not voting for him.

Why would you possibly not vote for him when you like ever policy he had? Good luck making up an excuse. The rest of us know perfectly well you're voting for him again. You HATE Biden, and can't name a thing he's done right. Yet you think that we'd ever believe you're not voting for Trumpy.

You got him nominated three times. This is not an accident, no matter how much you try to claim otherwise.

[old salt]

As I keep saying, you guys want to create straw men at every turn instead of grapple with the reality that this prosecutor is prosecuting what he believes he can convince a jury 12-0. There's no justice benefit to charging under 2383, just political. You can't imagine that a prosecutor and an AG and a President wouldn't act as partisans. Because you'd be just fine if Trump and his AG did so, indeed did so.

Inviting a Constitutional debate would do nothing to putting Trump in jail for the many crimes he committed beyond his reasonable lifespan.

As to IF Flynn was to march, guns ablaze, I hope he'd be put down hard into his grave in the process.

There was indeed a justice benefit to charging Trump under 2383 & trying him before a hostile DC Jury, then forcing the Supremes to rule that the disqualification plain language in a law passed by Congress in 2383 is somehow unconstitutional.

What was there to lose ? It would have been due process & a lot more credible than the Jan 6 Congressional show trial & a bunch of whacked out state courts & Sec's of State's declaring Jan 6 an insurrection & trying to restrict access to the ballot for candidates running for national office.
Trump could have been convicted in DC under 2383, the Supreme's would have been hard pressed to overturn it, & we'd be rid of Trump.

Biden & the Dems didn't want Trump disqualified because they think he's the (R) candidate they have the best chance to defeat.
They could have disqualified him in 2021.

And this is just YOUR opinion, being bandied about as fact.

Biden would SMOKE Haley, and she was the last standing.

It was up to you to get rid of Trump, OS. What happened? What did you and your pals do?

You told us every policy he had was awesome, even to this day. Yet you're on here, lying about not voting for him.

Why would you possibly not vote for him when you like ever policy he had? Good luck making up an excuse. The rest of us know perfectly well you're voting for him again. You HATE Biden, and can't name a thing he's done right. Yet you think that we'd ever believe you're not voting for Trumpy.

You got him nominated three times. This is not an accident, no matter how much you try to claim otherwise.

FU. You're lying. I never voted for Trump & I never will. I did not expect him to be nominated in 2016 & I did not think he could win. I did not predict he'd win in 2020. Even if I were inclined to vote for him, my vote in MD would be meaningless. I'm still amazed that he won & has been renominated. That's a testament to how off-putting & hateful his opponents are.

If Trump had been disqualified in 2021, either Haley or DeSantis would now be heavy favorites to defeat Biden. The polls still say that.

I didn't tell you every Trump policy & decision was awesome. That's you strawman. I defended the ones I agreed with.

Trump wouldn't be blaming inflation on potato chips & candy bars.

[a fan]

I didn't tell you every Trump policy & decision was awesome. That's you strawman. I defended the ones I agreed with.

Right. Four years, and you aren't bothered by one single solitary Trump policy enough to take ten seconds to say so, and we're supposed to believe that you don't want him as President again?

Yeah, right.

Please, by all means, list the ten things Trump did that you think are so bad that you don't want him back as POTUS.

Should be the easiest thing you've ever done here.

[old salt]

I didn't tell you every Trump policy & decision was awesome. That's you strawman. I defended the ones I agreed with.

Right. Four years, and you aren't bothered by one single solitary Trump policy enough to take ten seconds to say so, and we're supposed to believe that you don't want him as President again?

Yeah, right.

Please, by all means, list the ten things Trump did that you think are so bad that you don't want him back as POTUS.

Should be the easiest thing you've ever done here.

I'll make it simple. I don't think he is dignified enough & sufficiently respected globally to be our CinC & head of state.
I don't agree with his tax cuts & the amount of deficit spending. I do agree with the cap on the deduction for SALT taxes, even though it cost me.
I think he's a lousy leader & disloyal to many who served him loyally. In spite of all that, I'm appreciative that he rebuilt our military & kept us out of war. I'm grateful that he did restrict the flood of illegal migrants, despite your refusal to compare his numbers to Biden's. I appreciate his realistic energy policy. As I've said before, I fear him less than his enemies in our govt & media who abused their powers to keep him from office & to undermine his Presidency. I expect Trump to lose again. He's destroying the GOP with his conduct since the election of 2020, imo. I consider him the lesser evil.

[a fan]

I'll make it simple. I don't think he is dignified enough & sufficiently respected globally to be our CinC & head of state.
I don't agree with his tax cuts & the amount of deficit spending. I do agree with the cap on the deduction for SALT taxes, even though it cost me.
I think he's a lousy leader & disloyal to many who served him loyally. In spite of all that, I'm appreciative that he rebuilt our military & kept us out of war. I'm grateful that he did restrict the flood of illegal migrants, despite your refusal to compare his numbers to Biden's. I appreciate his realistic energy policy. As I've said before, I fear him less than his enemies in our govt & media who abused their powers to keep him from office & to undermine his Presidency.

You just listed a bunch of policies of his you like. Some he didn't do, but why bother pointing that out.

You're foaming at the mouth over immigration, and Trump, in your eyes, fixed the problem. Yet you're not gonna vote for him, if for no other reason than to keep Biden and the 1,000's of bad policies you despise.

Right.




Oh, I compared Trump and his Covid immigration numbers to Biden. They're lower. So what? That's like saying that Obamas were lower than Bushs'. An irrelevant distinction, because both let folks in, and didn't address either the root cause, nor the 10 million+ already here.

[old salt]

I'll make it simple. I don't think he is dignified enough & sufficiently respected globally to be our CinC & head of state.
I don't agree with his tax cuts & the amount of deficit spending. I do agree with the cap on the deduction for SALT taxes, even though it cost me.
I think he's a lousy leader & disloyal to many who served him loyally. In spite of all that, I'm appreciative that he rebuilt our military & kept us out of war. I'm grateful that he did restrict the flood of illegal migrants, despite your refusal to compare his numbers to Biden's. I appreciate his realistic energy policy. As I've said before, I fear him less than his enemies in our govt & media who abused their powers to keep him from office & to undermine his Presidency.

You just listed a bunch of policies of his you like. Some he didn't do, but why bother pointing that out.

You're foaming at the mouth over immigration, and Trump, in your eyes, fixed the problem. Yet you're not gonna vote for him, if for no other reason than to keep Biden and the 1,000's of bad policies you despise.

Right.

Oh, I compared Trump and his Covid immigration numbers to Biden. They're lower. So what? That's like saying that Obamas were lower than Bushs'. An irrelevant distinction, because both let folks in, and didn't address either the root cause, nor the 10 million+ already here.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I did NOT say he fixed immigration. No President can fix it alone. He made a good faith effort & did everything in his power (& some beyond) to uphold our laws & to staunch the flow. It has been pointed out, in detail, what Biden did to open the border. The numbers speak for themselves, notwithstanding your obfuscation.

I'm not going to vote for Trump because my vote is meaningless & I can't vote for him on principle. If I resided in a swing state, I'd leave that slot blank, vote for a 3rd party candidate, or write someone in.

I've said nothing about Covid. It's not analogous to our border chaos & an irrelevant diversion.

[a fan]

It has been pointed out, in detail, what Biden did to open the border. The numbers speak for themselves, notwithstanding your obfuscation.

Oh, it's wide open, and just last moth alone, Biden personally walked 100,000,000 immigrants into the US. And they're coming to take our children.

You've made your views about ANYONE with a letter D by their name abundantly clear. Obama is Satan. Biden is the Devil. Both ruined "RepublicanWorldAmerica" that you love so much.

But sure, you're not going vote for Trump, who gave you an America you CLEARLY like 100x better than what we have now, or had under Obama.

Right. Keep telling us this.

[cradleandshoot]

It has been pointed out, in detail, what Biden did to open the border. The numbers speak for themselves, notwithstanding your obfuscation.

Oh, it's wide open, and just last moth alone, Biden personally walked 100,000,000 immigrants into the US. And they're coming to take our children.

You've made your views about ANYONE with a letter D by their name abundantly clear. Obama is Satan. Biden is the Devil. Both ruined "RepublicanWorldAmerica" that you love so much.

But sure, you're not going vote for Trump, who gave you an America you CLEARLY like 100x better than what we have now, or had under Obama.

Right. Keep telling us this.

So America is only great depending on what party is in charge? I'm waiting for the day that Democrats come up with their own spin on " make America great again" that could be the most repulsive slogan to any Democrat. In the year 2024 the new Democrat slogan should be America was never great to begin with.

[old salt]

It has been pointed out, in detail, what Biden did to open the border. The numbers speak for themselves, notwithstanding your obfuscation.

Oh, it's wide open, and just last moth alone, Biden personally walked 100,000,000 immigrants into the US. And they're coming to take our children.

You've made your views about ANYONE with a letter D by their name abundantly clear. Obama is Satan. Biden is the Devil. Both ruined "RepublicanWorldAmerica" that you love so much.

But sure, you're not going vote for Trump, who gave you an America you CLEARLY like 100x better than what we have now, or had under Obama.

Right. Keep telling us this.

Biden doesn't need to walk them across the border. BidenAir has flown in 325,000 migrants who used the [CBP One] app.

[old salt]

It has been pointed out, in detail, what Biden did to open the border. The numbers speak for themselves, notwithstanding your obfuscation.

Oh, it's wide open, and just last moth alone, Biden personally walked 100,000,000 immigrants into the US. And they're coming to take our children.

You've made your views about ANYONE with a letter D by their name abundantly clear. Obama is Satan. Biden is the Devil. Both ruined "RepublicanWorldAmerica" that you love so much.

But sure, you're not going vote for Trump, who gave you an America you CLEARLY like 100x better than what we have now, or had under Obama.

Right. Keep telling us this.

So America is only great depending on what party is in charge? I'm waiting for the day that Democrats come up with their own spin on " make America great again" that could be the most repulsive slogan to any Democrat. In the year 2024 the new Democrat slogan should be America was never great to begin with.

The Dems slogan = From the River to the Sea. Go Hamas !

[PizzaSnake]

I'll make it simple. I don't think he is dignified enough & sufficiently respected globally to be our CinC & head of state.
I don't agree with his tax cuts & the amount of deficit spending. I do agree with the cap on the deduction for SALT taxes, even though it cost me.
I think he's a lousy leader & disloyal to many who served him loyally. In spite of all that, I'm appreciative that he rebuilt our military & kept us out of war. I'm grateful that he did restrict the flood of illegal migrants, despite your refusal to compare his numbers to Biden's. I appreciate his realistic energy policy. As I've said before, I fear him less than his enemies in our govt & media who abused their powers to keep him from office & to undermine his Presidency.

You just listed a bunch of policies of his you like. Some he didn't do, but why bother pointing that out.

You're foaming at the mouth over immigration, and Trump, in your eyes, fixed the problem. Yet you're not gonna vote for him, if for no other reason than to keep Biden and the 1,000's of bad policies you despise.

Right.

Oh, I compared Trump and his Covid immigration numbers to Biden. They're lower. So what? That's like saying that Obamas were lower than Bushs'. An irrelevant distinction, because both let folks in, and didn't address either the root cause, nor the 10 million+ already here.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I did NOT say he fixed immigration. No President can fix it alone. He made a good faith effort & did everything in his power (& some beyond) to uphold our laws & to staunch the flow. It has been pointed out, in detail, what Biden did to open the border. The numbers speak for themselves, notwithstanding your obfuscation.

I'm not going to vote for Trump because my vote is meaningless & I can't vote for him on principle. If I resided in a swing state, I'd leave that slot blank, vote for a 3rd party candidate, or write someone in.

I've said nothing about Covid. It's not analogous to our border chaos & an irrelevant diversion.

Stanch.

[MDlaxfan76]

As I keep saying, you guys want to create straw men at every turn instead of grapple with the reality that this prosecutor is prosecuting what he believes he can convince a jury 12-0. There's no justice benefit to charging under 2383, just political. You can't imagine that a prosecutor and an AG and a President wouldn't act as partisans. Because you'd be just fine if Trump and his AG did so, indeed did so.

Inviting a Constitutional debate would do nothing to putting Trump in jail for the many crimes he committed beyond his reasonable lifespan.

As to IF Flynn was to march, guns ablaze, I hope he'd be put down hard into his grave in the process.

There was indeed a justice benefit to charging Trump under 2383 & trying him before a hostile DC Jury, then forcing the Supremes to rule that the disqualification plain language in a law passed by Congress in 2383 is somehow unconstitutional.

What was there to lose ? It would have been due process & a lot more credible than the Jan 6 Congressional show trial & a bunch of whacked out state courts & Sec's of State's declaring Jan 6 an insurrection & trying to restrict access to the ballot for candidates running for national office.
Trump could have been convicted in DC under 2383, the Supreme's would have been hard pressed to overturn it, & we'd be rid of Trump.

Biden & the Dems didn't want Trump disqualified because they think he's the (R) candidate they have the best chance to defeat.
They could have disqualified him in 2021.

Again, you'd make a terrible lawyer...and not a very good troll either.

Take your 'let's create a test case' logic to some political advocacy group, not the DOJ, much less Special Counsel.

You wanted Trump disqualified?
Blame that on the politicians from our party who failed to convict him in the Senate. Epic fail.

Stop speculating about partisan motivations impacting Smith's decision making.
What you are advocating is anti-rule of law, anti-American.

Go cheer Orban.

[MDlaxfan76]

It has been pointed out, in detail, what Biden did to open the border. The numbers speak for themselves, notwithstanding your obfuscation.

Oh, it's wide open, and just last moth alone, Biden personally walked 100,000,000 immigrants into the US. And they're coming to take our children.

You've made your views about ANYONE with a letter D by their name abundantly clear. Obama is Satan. Biden is the Devil. Both ruined "RepublicanWorldAmerica" that you love so much.

But sure, you're not going vote for Trump, who gave you an America you CLEARLY like 100x better than what we have now, or had under Obama.

Right. Keep telling us this.

Biden doesn't need to walk them across the border. BidenAir has flown in 325,000 migrants who used the [CBP One] app.

Legally, transparently, controlled...nah, we don't want controlled immigration of asylum seekers, ohh my, the horror of documented entry!....yup, that's the position of the great replacement theory, white christian nationalists...

[old salt]

Again, you'd make a terrible lawyer...and not a very good troll either.

Take your 'let's create a test case' logic to some political advocacy group, not the DOJ, much less Special Counsel.

You wanted Trump disqualified?
Blame that on the politicians from our party who failed to convict him in the Senate. Epic fail.

Stop speculating about partisan motivations impacting Smith's decision making.
What you are advocating is anti-rule of law, anti-American.

Go cheer Orban.

Anti-American ? Anti-rule of law ? We have a US law enacted specifically to deal with insurrectionists.
You've been railing about Trump leading an insurrection ever since Jan 6th, yet you' & Jack Smith & AG Garland are afraid to use that law.
Hypocrites !

Orban is a legally elected leader of a democratic NATO ally. Get over it.

[old salt]

It has been pointed out, in detail, what Biden did to open the border. The numbers speak for themselves, notwithstanding your obfuscation.

Oh, it's wide open, and just last moth alone, Biden personally walked 100,000,000 immigrants into the US. And they're coming to take our children.

You've made your views about ANYONE with a letter D by their name abundantly clear. Obama is Satan. Biden is the Devil. Both ruined "RepublicanWorldAmerica" that you love so much.

But sure, you're not going vote for Trump, who gave you an America you CLEARLY like 100x better than what we have now, or had under Obama.

Right. Keep telling us this.

Biden doesn't need to walk them across the border. BidenAir has flown in 325,000 migrants who used the [CBP One] app.

Legally, transparently, controlled...nah, we don't want controlled immigration of asylum seekers, ohh my, the horror of documented entry!....yup, that's the position of the great replacement theory, white christian nationalists...

That's 325k migrants jumping the line on legal immigration applicants who have been waiting for decades.

https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/wh ... troduction

https://prospect.org/justice/2023-01-19 ... -title-42/

[MDlaxfan76]

Again, you'd make a terrible lawyer...and not a very good troll either.

Take your 'let's create a test case' logic to some political advocacy group, not the DOJ, much less Special Counsel.

You wanted Trump disqualified?
Blame that on the politicians from our party who failed to convict him in the Senate. Epic fail.

Stop speculating about partisan motivations impacting Smith's decision making.
What you are advocating is anti-rule of law, anti-American.

Go cheer Orban.

Anti-American ? Anti-rule of law ? We have a US law enacted specifically to deal with insurrectionists.
You've been railing about Trump leading an insurrection ever since Jan 6th, yet you' & Jack Smith & AG Garland are afraid to use that law.
Hypocrites !

Orban is a legally elected leader of a democratic NATO ally. Get over it.

'nuff said on the last point.

yes, advocating that prosecutors choose which indictments to bring based on partisan political ends is blatantly anti-rule of law, anti-American.

You really can't fathom an apolitical prosecutor with integrity can you?