The Abortion Thread

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jhu72
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by jhu72 »

ardilla secreta wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:48 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:33 am Funny how all of the rabid abortion lovers are all people who have been born. You ever wonder if your parents ever contemplated aborting you? Would you have had a problem with that if they had done so? I'm only inquiring for a friend.
Do you ever think what would have happened if you were born as Elizabeth Montgomery?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

... I go away for a few days and the shallow end of the gene pool overflows .... again. C&S needs to stop trying so hard.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
PizzaSnake
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by PizzaSnake »

cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:23 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:21 am
DMac wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:02 am Drop the abortion lovers/rabid abortion lovers, cradle, it's inaccurate and revolting hyperbole. Might want to change that to woman's right lovers. Not everyone shares your beliefs, which isn't to suggest there aren't millions upon millions of God fearing Christian woman who have gone in for the procedure with their God fearing husbands/boyfriends there for moral support. Many of those of moral superiority (so they think) passing judgement on others will sing a different tune when it is they who are faced with an unwanted pregnancy. Sounds to me as if you were okay with your family profiting from abortions. WWJD there?
WWJD? Wouldn't leave them poor? Wouldn't allow their mother's boyfriends to rape them? Would have provided a stable, economically sustainable environment and good work for her? Would not have given her gestational diabetes? Wouldn't have given her an ectopic pregnancy? Wouldn't have given her severe pre-eclampsia? Would have spared her a heart ailment making pregnancy dangerous? Wouldn't have given her PROM? Sure, there is a lot "Jesus" could have done. Who cares, really, what men think Jesus would do.
Well if your a Christian as so many claim to be there will be a day of judgement for you when you leave this earth. That is when you can explain to your creator your rabid support for abortion. It would take one silver tongued devil to bullchit their way out of that conversation. I have a sneaking suspicion that Jesus might be pro life.
So, if I don’t claim to be a Christian, no day of judgement?

How is it you can’t separate your faith from the unknowable? Or do you think you can and do know reality? The Jesuits would like to speak with you in that case.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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cradleandshoot
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by cradleandshoot »

PizzaSnake wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:34 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:23 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:21 am
DMac wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:02 am Drop the abortion lovers/rabid abortion lovers, cradle, it's inaccurate and revolting hyperbole. Might want to change that to woman's right lovers. Not everyone shares your beliefs, which isn't to suggest there aren't millions upon millions of God fearing Christian woman who have gone in for the procedure with their God fearing husbands/boyfriends there for moral support. Many of those of moral superiority (so they think) passing judgement on others will sing a different tune when it is they who are faced with an unwanted pregnancy. Sounds to me as if you were okay with your family profiting from abortions. WWJD there?
WWJD? Wouldn't leave them poor? Wouldn't allow their mother's boyfriends to rape them? Would have provided a stable, economically sustainable environment and good work for her? Would not have given her gestational diabetes? Wouldn't have given her an ectopic pregnancy? Wouldn't have given her severe pre-eclampsia? Would have spared her a heart ailment making pregnancy dangerous? Wouldn't have given her PROM? Sure, there is a lot "Jesus" could have done. Who cares, really, what men think Jesus would do.
Well if your a Christian as so many claim to be there will be a day of judgement for you when you leave this earth. That is when you can explain to your creator your rabid support for abortion. It would take one silver tongued devil to bullchit their way out of that conversation. I have a sneaking suspicion that Jesus might be pro life.
So, if I don’t claim to be a Christian, no day of judgement?

How is it you can’t separate your faith from the unknowable? Or do you think you can and do know reality? The Jesuits would like to speak with you in that case.
My faith has nothing to do with my opinion. I could clarify that by referring to it as my lack of faith. On a personal level I think abortion is abhorrent and a stain on a civilized society. The SCOTUS gave it their seal of approval in their decision on R v W. The catch phrase at that time was " rare but safe" The " safe" part is a good thing. The " rare" part was kicked to the curb along time ago. Abortion is one of those necessary evils. I don't know when the procedure became a beautiful and loving act of kindness for an unwanted baby. Why don't they give out little stickers with I aborted my baby today with a smiley face on it. In America circa 2024 if your personally against abortion your a bad and rotten person. Your trying to tell women what they can do with their bodies. It is legal but I'm troubled by the mentality that elevates the procedure to nothing short of sacred and honored and a beautiful thing to behold. My wife worked in these rooms as a young peeds nurse. There is nothing beautiful about it. It nauseated my wife to no end. Her job was to take of her patient and not to judge. Her experience has much to do with her becoming a GI nurse. She no longer had to deal with the stress. It was a very stressful job with alot of difficult situations to overcome.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
PizzaSnake
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by PizzaSnake »

Kari’s pursuing the will-o-the-wisp.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Seacoaster(1)
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/us/p ... -case.html

"The Supreme Court will hear arguments on Wednesday about whether Idaho’s near-total abortion ban conflicts with a federal law that protects patients who need emergency care, in a case that would determine access to abortions in emergency rooms across the country.

The federal law affects only the sliver of women who face dire medical complications during pregnancy. But a broad decision by the court could have implications for the about 14 states that have enacted near-total bans on abortion since the court overturned a constitutional right to abortion in June 2022.

The case may also have broader consequences if the justices adopt language about fetal personhood, some legal scholars argue, an increasingly polarizing fight that surfaced recently in Alabama, after its top court ruled that frozen embryos in test tubes should be considered children.

The dispute is the second time in less than a month that the Supreme Court is grappling with abortion. It is a potent reminder that even after Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. vowed in 2022 that the issue of abortion would return to elected representatives in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, it continues to make its way back to the court. In late March, the justices considered the availability of the abortion pill mifepristone.

The federal law at issue, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, or EMTALA, enacted by Congress in 1986, mandates that hospitals receiving federal funds provide patients with stabilizing care.

The Biden administration maintains that this law collides with — and should override — Idaho’s near-total abortion ban. Under the state law, the procedure is illegal except in cases of incest, rape or when it is “necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman,” and doctors who perform abortions could face criminal penalties. Lawyers for the state contend that the administration has maneuvered the federal law in a way that would bypass state bans.

The experience of one doctor, Dr. Megan Kasper, distills the vexing difficulties at play, particularly for those who must consider the state law in the face of potential complications.

Dr. Kasper, who treats pregnant women in Nampa, Idaho, an agricultural city outside Boise, describes herself as morally opposed to abortion unless a pregnancy is nonviable or a woman’s life is in danger.

But Dr. Kasper, 45, who has an independent medical practice and works shifts at a hospital, voiced deep concern about the state’s near-total ban on the procedure.

“It sets a precedent that pregnant women are substandard citizens,” she said, adding, “You’re saying this woman’s health is less important than her fetus instead of saying, ‘I have two patients here, and I’ve got to treat both of them.’”

Dr. Kasper recalled treating a pregnant woman early in her second trimester who was suffering a miscarriage. Although the fetus was still alive, the doctor knew there was no chance of survival.

Before the abortion ban, Dr. Kasper said, “if anything at all made me the least bit uncomfortable, I would say let’s step in and fix this.”

But in that circumstance, she said: “Under the law, I had to be careful how I maneuvered this. Whereas for me, ethically, I knew the baby would not survive.”

The woman ended up having a miscarriage with no need for any abortion care, Dr. Kasper said, but it gave her pause.

“We’re talking about these unusual situations that can be very dicey, and you’re tying our hands,” she said, referring to the state’s abortion ban. “And those are not the situations where you want to be tying our hands.”

In a brief to the court, lawyers for the Biden administration called the effect of the federal law “limited but profound.” The government’s position is that the law can be triggered when a pregnant woman who suffers a dangerous condition that requires immediate medical care goes to an emergency room for medical care.

“In some tragic cases, the required stabilizing care — the only treatment that can save the woman’s life or prevent grave harm to her health — involves terminating the pregnancy,” the government said.

Idaho’s attorney general, Raúl Labrador, has insisted the matter of abortion is now up to the states.

In a brief, he argued that the Biden administration was trying to use federal law to turn Idaho emergency rooms into “abortion enclaves in violation of state law.”

Mr. Labrador, whose office is being assisted in the case by lawyers from Alliance Defending Freedom, the Christian legal advocacy organization leading a challenge to mifepristone, wrote that the Biden administration sought to reinterpret the federal law to “transform” it “into a state-law wrecking ball.”

The Biden administration has relied on EMTALA as a narrow way to challenge state-level abortion bans.

After the court overturned a constitutional right to an abortion, near-total bans on the procedure swiftly took effect in some states, including in Idaho.

After Idaho’s Republican-controlled Legislature passed the Idaho Defense of Life Act, which makes it a crime to perform or assist in performing an abortion, the Biden administration sued the state in August 2022, a few weeks before the law was set to take effect, arguing that federal law should trump the state law when the two directly conflict.

The federal law specifies that a hospital must provide care to a person with an “emergency medical condition.” For pregnant women, the law states, that means when “the absence of immediate medical attention could reasonably be expected to result in” placing “the health of the woman or her unborn child” in “serious jeopardy.”

If a hospital breaks the federal law, it can be sued and potentially lose Medicare funding. The federal law also includes a provision that it will not pre-empt a state or local law unless “the requirement directly conflicts with” the federal law.

But the state law imposes a prison sentence of up to five years if it is violated and can lead to the loss of a doctor’s medical license. The legislation allows exceptions “to prevent the death of the pregnant woman,” to end an ectopic or molar pregnancy, or to end certain pregnancies from rape or incest.

A federal trial judge temporarily blocked the state’s ban. In the fall of 2023, a three-judge panel from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit put the ruling on hold and reinstated the ban. But that decision was ultimately overridden by an 11-member panel of the appeals court, which temporarily blocked Idaho’s law as the appeal continued.

Idaho asked the Supreme Court to intervene, and the court reinstated the ban and agreed to hear the case.

In Idaho, Dr. Kasper said she was less focused on the political polarization and more on the women she treats. Many of her patients do not understand the implications of the law, she said, largely believing that it offers exceptions for the health of pregnant women.

She was also anxious about the future of the medical profession in her state. For young doctors just entering the field, she said, Idaho is a tough sell.

She said that a doctor weighing job offers might worry, “If I go there, I’m going to be on call in the middle of the night, wondering if I’m going to get in trouble.”

A few doctors have left the state, she said, but as others retire, she fears they will not be replaced.

“Nobody wants to come here,” she said."
a fan
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by a fan »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:49 am A few doctors have left the state, she said, but as others retire, she fears they will not be replaced.

“Nobody wants to come here,” she said."
All these new Republicans don't understand how free markets work: they think that they can bully around teachers, and now doctors, with zero consequences.

"Shut up and do what we tell you to do" is accelerating the collapse of flyover America.
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youthathletics
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by youthathletics »

a fan wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:01 am "Shut up and do what we tell you to do" is accelerating the collapse of flyover America.
That same sentence can be said about all the things the democrats are doing. It's the very reason everything is so divisive and polarizing. We need a halftime in America...everyone go their corners and be quiet for a couple years.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Seacoaster(1)
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 5:48 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:01 am "Shut up and do what we tell you to do" is accelerating the collapse of flyover America.
That same sentence can be said about all the things the democrats are doing. It's the very reason everything is so divisive and polarizing. We need a halftime in America...everyone go their corners and be quiet for a couple years.
Nope; not equivalent. Today, the boys on the Supreme Court was deciding what emergency medical care pregnant women get to have: Idaho care, or medical care. The right is a cancer to a free people.
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by a fan »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 5:48 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:01 am "Shut up and do what we tell you to do" is accelerating the collapse of flyover America.
That same sentence can be said about all the things the democrats are doing. It's the very reason everything is so divisive and polarizing. We need a halftime in America...everyone go their corners and be quiet for a couple years.
Nope. The Dems aren't passing laws that stick it to every doctors or teacher in an entire State.

"The Dems" you are referring to are Dem City Councils in a handful of cities, all of which are flush with cash. All you need to do is change the councils to have some more moderates, and the policies change. See: Denver. This is not a big deal.

The R States are writing this sh(t into law, YA, which is not at all the same thing. And these laws stick it to our very most essential workers: Doctors and Teachers. Totally different, and far worse.

And if you don't believe me, that's ok , but this is NOT the same thing.

...although I completely agree with your sentiment that both of these extremists go to their corners and STFU, no argument there!
PizzaSnake
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by PizzaSnake »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:49 am https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/us/p ... -case.html

"The Supreme Court will hear arguments on Wednesday about whether Idaho’s near-total abortion ban conflicts with a federal law that protects patients who need emergency care, in a case that would determine access to abortions in emergency rooms across the country.

The federal law affects only the sliver of women who face dire medical complications during pregnancy. But a broad decision by the court could have implications for the about 14 states that have enacted near-total bans on abortion since the court overturned a constitutional right to abortion in June 2022.

The case may also have broader consequences if the justices adopt language about fetal personhood, some legal scholars argue, an increasingly polarizing fight that surfaced recently in Alabama, after its top court ruled that frozen embryos in test tubes should be considered children.

The dispute is the second time in less than a month that the Supreme Court is grappling with abortion. It is a potent reminder that even after Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. vowed in 2022 that the issue of abortion would return to elected representatives in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, it continues to make its way back to the court. In late March, the justices considered the availability of the abortion pill mifepristone.

The federal law at issue, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, or EMTALA, enacted by Congress in 1986, mandates that hospitals receiving federal funds provide patients with stabilizing care.

The Biden administration maintains that this law collides with — and should override — Idaho’s near-total abortion ban. Under the state law, the procedure is illegal except in cases of incest, rape or when it is “necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman,” and doctors who perform abortions could face criminal penalties. Lawyers for the state contend that the administration has maneuvered the federal law in a way that would bypass state bans.

The experience of one doctor, Dr. Megan Kasper, distills the vexing difficulties at play, particularly for those who must consider the state law in the face of potential complications.

Dr. Kasper, who treats pregnant women in Nampa, Idaho, an agricultural city outside Boise, describes herself as morally opposed to abortion unless a pregnancy is nonviable or a woman’s life is in danger.

But Dr. Kasper, 45, who has an independent medical practice and works shifts at a hospital, voiced deep concern about the state’s near-total ban on the procedure.

“It sets a precedent that pregnant women are substandard citizens,” she said, adding, “You’re saying this woman’s health is less important than her fetus instead of saying, ‘I have two patients here, and I’ve got to treat both of them.’”

Dr. Kasper recalled treating a pregnant woman early in her second trimester who was suffering a miscarriage. Although the fetus was still alive, the doctor knew there was no chance of survival.

Before the abortion ban, Dr. Kasper said, “if anything at all made me the least bit uncomfortable, I would say let’s step in and fix this.”

But in that circumstance, she said: “Under the law, I had to be careful how I maneuvered this. Whereas for me, ethically, I knew the baby would not survive.”

The woman ended up having a miscarriage with no need for any abortion care, Dr. Kasper said, but it gave her pause.

“We’re talking about these unusual situations that can be very dicey, and you’re tying our hands,” she said, referring to the state’s abortion ban. “And those are not the situations where you want to be tying our hands.”

In a brief to the court, lawyers for the Biden administration called the effect of the federal law “limited but profound.” The government’s position is that the law can be triggered when a pregnant woman who suffers a dangerous condition that requires immediate medical care goes to an emergency room for medical care.

“In some tragic cases, the required stabilizing care — the only treatment that can save the woman’s life or prevent grave harm to her health — involves terminating the pregnancy,” the government said.

Idaho’s attorney general, Raúl Labrador, has insisted the matter of abortion is now up to the states.

In a brief, he argued that the Biden administration was trying to use federal law to turn Idaho emergency rooms into “abortion enclaves in violation of state law.”

Mr. Labrador, whose office is being assisted in the case by lawyers from Alliance Defending Freedom, the Christian legal advocacy organization leading a challenge to mifepristone, wrote that the Biden administration sought to reinterpret the federal law to “transform” it “into a state-law wrecking ball.”

The Biden administration has relied on EMTALA as a narrow way to challenge state-level abortion bans.

After the court overturned a constitutional right to an abortion, near-total bans on the procedure swiftly took effect in some states, including in Idaho.

After Idaho’s Republican-controlled Legislature passed the Idaho Defense of Life Act, which makes it a crime to perform or assist in performing an abortion, the Biden administration sued the state in August 2022, a few weeks before the law was set to take effect, arguing that federal law should trump the state law when the two directly conflict.

The federal law specifies that a hospital must provide care to a person with an “emergency medical condition.” For pregnant women, the law states, that means when “the absence of immediate medical attention could reasonably be expected to result in” placing “the health of the woman or her unborn child” in “serious jeopardy.”

If a hospital breaks the federal law, it can be sued and potentially lose Medicare funding. The federal law also includes a provision that it will not pre-empt a state or local law unless “the requirement directly conflicts with” the federal law.

But the state law imposes a prison sentence of up to five years if it is violated and can lead to the loss of a doctor’s medical license. The legislation allows exceptions “to prevent the death of the pregnant woman,” to end an ectopic or molar pregnancy, or to end certain pregnancies from rape or incest.

A federal trial judge temporarily blocked the state’s ban. In the fall of 2023, a three-judge panel from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit put the ruling on hold and reinstated the ban. But that decision was ultimately overridden by an 11-member panel of the appeals court, which temporarily blocked Idaho’s law as the appeal continued.

Idaho asked the Supreme Court to intervene, and the court reinstated the ban and agreed to hear the case.

In Idaho, Dr. Kasper said she was less focused on the political polarization and more on the women she treats. Many of her patients do not understand the implications of the law, she said, largely believing that it offers exceptions for the health of pregnant women.

She was also anxious about the future of the medical profession in her state. For young doctors just entering the field, she said, Idaho is a tough sell.

She said that a doctor weighing job offers might worry, “If I go there, I’m going to be on call in the middle of the night, wondering if I’m going to get in trouble.”

A few doctors have left the state, she said, but as others retire, she fears they will not be replaced.

“Nobody wants to come here,” she said."
Ah, Idaho!

Where the men are men and the sheep run scared.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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