Bourbon

[Typical Lax Dad]

All right afan....give us the lowdown on this recipe. I read in the comments people put the wood in the freezer at night, then set it out during the day to fake out the aging process:

All he's describing is what the TTB would call "imitation whiskey".

When people talk of aging, what they mean is that in whiskey distillation, it's a crude process that leaves organic acids and other compounds in the new make whiskey. These compounds react with oxygen over time to create esters (fruit notes).

You can't have this aging without something to react with oxygen (oxidize). And when you simply put vodka in that container? There's no organic acids present...they've all been stripped out in the vodka making process. And since you're not using a barrel, there's no exchange of gases----gasses out (what we call the Angel's share), and gasses in....the oxidation I just mentioned. So....this isn't "aging".

What he's describing is flavored vodka: Vodka flavored with brown sugar and oak chips. Blech!

In the age of “what some guy on the internet said”….. thanks for breaking that down….. you are credentialed with a track record. What you say carries weight, despite being on the internet. A known commodity here…… your Apple Whiskey is back in stock in MA…. I bought a case for a friend that loves it.

I'm going to be in the Boston area in April for the marathon. My (step) father-in-law will be running. I haven't seen any Leopold Bros stuff in Ohio, but would be interested in picking some up when I'm in Massachusetts.

You should be able to find it. I buy from here:

https://www.yankeespirits.com/

Or try here:

https://www.totalwine.com/store-finder/browse/MA

[ohmilax34]

All right afan....give us the lowdown on this recipe. I read in the comments people put the wood in the freezer at night, then set it out during the day to fake out the aging process:

All he's describing is what the TTB would call "imitation whiskey".

When people talk of aging, what they mean is that in whiskey distillation, it's a crude process that leaves organic acids and other compounds in the new make whiskey. These compounds react with oxygen over time to create esters (fruit notes).

You can't have this aging without something to react with oxygen (oxidize). And when you simply put vodka in that container? There's no organic acids present...they've all been stripped out in the vodka making process. And since you're not using a barrel, there's no exchange of gases----gasses out (what we call the Angel's share), and gasses in....the oxidation I just mentioned. So....this isn't "aging".

What he's describing is flavored vodka: Vodka flavored with brown sugar and oak chips. Blech!

In the age of “what some guy on the internet said”….. thanks for breaking that down….. you are credentialed with a track record. What you say carries weight, despite being on the internet. A known commodity here…… your Apple Whiskey is back in stock in MA…. I bought a case for a friend that loves it.

I'm going to be in the Boston area in April for the marathon. My (step) father-in-law will be running. I haven't seen any Leopold Bros stuff in Ohio, but would be interested in picking some up when I'm in Massachusetts.

You should be able to find it. I buy from here:

https://www.yankeespirits.com/

Or try here:

https://www.totalwine.com/store-finder/browse/MA

Thanks! I will check it out.

[Typical Lax Dad]

All right afan....give us the lowdown on this recipe. I read in the comments people put the wood in the freezer at night, then set it out during the day to fake out the aging process:

All he's describing is what the TTB would call "imitation whiskey".

When people talk of aging, what they mean is that in whiskey distillation, it's a crude process that leaves organic acids and other compounds in the new make whiskey. These compounds react with oxygen over time to create esters (fruit notes).

You can't have this aging without something to react with oxygen (oxidize). And when you simply put vodka in that container? There's no organic acids present...they've all been stripped out in the vodka making process. And since you're not using a barrel, there's no exchange of gases----gasses out (what we call the Angel's share), and gasses in....the oxidation I just mentioned. So....this isn't "aging".

What he's describing is flavored vodka: Vodka flavored with brown sugar and oak chips. Blech!

In the age of “what some guy on the internet said”….. thanks for breaking that down….. you are credentialed with a track record. What you say carries weight, despite being on the internet. A known commodity here…… your Apple Whiskey is back in stock in MA…. I bought a case for a friend that loves it.

I'm going to be in the Boston area in April for the marathon. My (step) father-in-law will be running. I haven't seen any Leopold Bros stuff in Ohio, but would be interested in picking some up when I'm in Massachusetts.

You should be able to find it. I buy from here:

https://www.yankeespirits.com/

Or try here:

https://www.totalwine.com/store-finder/browse/MA

Thanks! I will check it out.

You can also place an order and pick it up. That way you may get exactly what you are looking for. Look into ordering if you can.

[youthathletics]

Fun little video of comparison between Weller and Pappy, all have same mashbills...so we are told.

[youthathletics]

NYT Article on Bourbon this week: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/29/dini ... iskey.html

Looks like Leopold made the pic.

[youthathletics]

Buffalo Trace fires their distributer.....

Inducement talk at 6:12, how many stores get their allocations that are so hard to purchase, based on sales of other products of other brands.

@9:50 - I think he hits the nail on the head and was I what I had on my mind the while listening. BT ramped up production and infrastructure years back and that juice is getting ready to hit the streets.

[a fan]

Buffalo Trace fires their distributer.....

Inducement talk at 6:12, how many stores get their allocations that are so hard to purchase, based on sales of other products of other brands.

@9:50 - I think he hits the nail on the head and was I what I had on my mind the while listening. BT ramped up production and infrastructure years back and that juice is getting ready to hit the streets.

He does a great job explaining things....right up until he begins to completely speculate as to what Buffalo Trace is doing. Then he goes completely off the rails.

[a fan]

NYT Article on Bourbon this week: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/29/dini ... iskey.html

Looks like Leopold made the pic.

Not bad, right?

[youthathletics]

Buffalo Trace fires their distributer.....

Inducement talk at 6:12, how many stores get their allocations that are so hard to purchase, based on sales of other products of other brands.

@9:50 - I think he hits the nail on the head and was I what I had on my mind the while listening. BT ramped up production and infrastructure years back and that juice is getting ready to hit the streets.

He does a great job explaining things....right up until he begins to completely speculate as to what Buffalo Trace is doing. Then he goes completely off the rails.

Are you saying that b/c he is merely speculating, or because you know differently? I respect that you may not want to answer for obvious reasons. Logically, from the outside it made sense, b/c. It reminds me of the story from a small business that built widgets, they went to Walmart got a contract to produce an exponential amount of widgets, tooled up, make a profit, then their widgets stopped selling as expected and they ultimately lost the contract and shut their doors. Certainly not the exact same...but follows supply /demand principles.

I suppose, the demand is and will continue to stay high, especially overseas....and maybe that little nugget that he missed is the key?

[a fan]

Buffalo Trace fires their distributer.....

Inducement talk at 6:12, how many stores get their allocations that are so hard to purchase, based on sales of other products of other brands.

@9:50 - I think he hits the nail on the head and was I what I had on my mind the while listening. BT ramped up production and infrastructure years back and that juice is getting ready to hit the streets.

He does a great job explaining things....right up until he begins to completely speculate as to what Buffalo Trace is doing. Then he goes completely off the rails.

Are you saying that b/c he is merely speculating, or because you know differently? I respect that you may not want to answer for obvious reasons. Logically, from the outside it made sense, b/c. It reminds me of the story from a small business that built widgets, they went to Walmart got a contract to produce an exponential amount of widgets, tooled up, make a profit, then their widgets stopped selling as expected and they ultimately lost the contract and shut their doors. Certainly not the exact same...but follows supply /demand principles.

I suppose, the demand is and will continue to stay high, especially overseas....and maybe that little nugget that he missed is the key?

He's new to the industry, and doesn't understand how wholesale distributors work. He seems to think that distributors can control who can buy whiskey as a whole......like where he says RNDC intentionally has more volume in bars vs. liquor stores. This is entirely untrue. Doubly so after the pandemic. Distributors will sell to anyone with current credit. They don't care who orders.

Allocated products are different, of course, but that's not what he's talking about. And even in the case of allocated products, every single distributor has a different strategy, even if they're simply RNDC in Colorado vs. RNDC in another state.

As for his assertion they switched to get a better deal-----a lower markup from a new distributor. All they would have to do is ask RNDC for a better deal, and they'd get it.....RNDC is far larger than every distributor except maybe Southern, and can offer better margins for Sazerac.

I could go on, but you get the point. But as I said, his explanation of the three (and four) tier system is fantastic.

[a fan]

Buffalo Trace fires their distributer.....

Inducement talk at 6:12, how many stores get their allocations that are so hard to purchase, based on sales of other products of other brands.

@9:50 - I think he hits the nail on the head and was I what I had on my mind the while listening. BT ramped up production and infrastructure years back and that juice is getting ready to hit the streets.

He does a great job explaining things....right up until he begins to completely speculate as to what Buffalo Trace is doing. Then he goes completely off the rails.

Are you saying that b/c he is merely speculating, or because you know differently? I respect that you may not want to answer for obvious reasons. Logically, from the outside it made sense, b/c. It reminds me of the story from a small business that built widgets, they went to Walmart got a contract to produce an exponential amount of widgets, tooled up, make a profit, then their widgets stopped selling as expected and they ultimately lost the contract and shut their doors. Certainly not the exact same...but follows supply /demand principles.

I suppose, the demand is and will continue to stay high, especially overseas....and maybe that little nugget that he missed is the key?

He's new to the industry, and doesn't understand how wholesale distributors work. He seems to think that distributors can control who can buy whiskey as a whole......like where he says RNDC intentionally has more volume in bars vs. liquor stores. This is entirely untrue. Doubly so after the pandemic. Distributors will sell to anyone with current credit. They don't care who orders.

Allocated products are different, of course, but that's not what he's talking about. And even in the case of allocated products, every single distributor has a different strategy, even if they're simply RNDC in Colorado vs. RNDC in another state.

As for his assertion they switched to get a better deal-----a lower markup from a new distributor. All they would have to do is ask RNDC for a better deal, and they'd get it.....RNDC is far larger than every distributor except maybe Southern, and can offer better margins for Sazerac.

I could go on, but you get the point. But as I said, his explanation of the three (and four) tier system is fantastic.

So now that the lawsuit is out, I can tell you what the actual issue was....even thought it's being spun differently in the press. RNDC was using Sazerac brands to leverage their entire portfolio. In other words, you had to buy non-Sazerac products in order to get your hands on any Buffalo Trace. This infuriated Sazerac, and for good reason. So Sazerac's sales were enabling sales for their direct competition.

RNDC salesmen are freaking out, because not only did they lose all the commission on selling Sazerac products....but now they are left twisting in the wind with bitter customers who HATED that RNDC screwed over by forcing them to buy stuff they didn't want, in order to get access to Buffalo Trace.

The chickens have come home. RNDC is SCREWED in so many markets for the near term. They lost their unethical sales leverage....and now a competing distributor is getting all the Sazerac sales.

The nice thing is, customers win, because there's no way Sazerac's new reps will play these games, knowing Sazerac would sue them, and put them in the same position RNDC finds itself in.

[youthathletics]

Buffalo Trace fires their distributer.....

Inducement talk at 6:12, how many stores get their allocations that are so hard to purchase, based on sales of other products of other brands.

@9:50 - I think he hits the nail on the head and was I what I had on my mind the while listening. BT ramped up production and infrastructure years back and that juice is getting ready to hit the streets.

He does a great job explaining things....right up until he begins to completely speculate as to what Buffalo Trace is doing. Then he goes completely off the rails.

Are you saying that b/c he is merely speculating, or because you know differently? I respect that you may not want to answer for obvious reasons. Logically, from the outside it made sense, b/c. It reminds me of the story from a small business that built widgets, they went to Walmart got a contract to produce an exponential amount of widgets, tooled up, make a profit, then their widgets stopped selling as expected and they ultimately lost the contract and shut their doors. Certainly not the exact same...but follows supply /demand principles.

I suppose, the demand is and will continue to stay high, especially overseas....and maybe that little nugget that he missed is the key?

He's new to the industry, and doesn't understand how wholesale distributors work. He seems to think that distributors can control who can buy whiskey as a whole......like where he says RNDC intentionally has more volume in bars vs. liquor stores. This is entirely untrue. Doubly so after the pandemic. Distributors will sell to anyone with current credit. They don't care who orders.

Allocated products are different, of course, but that's not what he's talking about. And even in the case of allocated products, every single distributor has a different strategy, even if they're simply RNDC in Colorado vs. RNDC in another state.

As for his assertion they switched to get a better deal-----a lower markup from a new distributor. All they would have to do is ask RNDC for a better deal, and they'd get it.....RNDC is far larger than every distributor except maybe Southern, and can offer better margins for Sazerac.

I could go on, but you get the point. But as I said, his explanation of the three (and four) tier system is fantastic.

So now that the lawsuit is out, I can tell you what the actual issue was....even thought it's being spun differently in the press. RNDC was using Sazerac brands to leverage their entire portfolio. In other words, you had to buy non-Sazerac products in order to get your hands on any Buffalo Trace. This infuriated Sazerac, and for good reason. So Sazerac's sales were enabling sales for their direct competition.

RNDC salesmen are freaking out, because not only did they lose all the commission on selling Sazerac products....but now they are left twisting in the wind with bitter customers who HATED that RNDC screwed over by forcing them to buy stuff they didn't want, in order to get access to Buffalo Trace.

The chickens have come home. RNDC is SCREWED in so many markets for the near term. They lost their unethical sales leverage....and now a competing distributor is getting all the Sazerac sales.

The nice thing is, customers win, because there's no way Sazerac's new reps will play these games, knowing Sazerac would sue them, and put them in the same position RNDC finds itself in.

Thanks for the update. Although the jury is still out on how it impacts Joe 'allocated' Bourbon drinker. It may in fact become 'worse', because there will now be for more stores receiving allocations or lesser quantity, meaning, store X that never got BT products can now get them and gouge the customer for the select few they receive.....thus competing with every other store receiving them.

Like Kramer in Seinfeld...."Im out", until convinced otherwise.

[a fan]

Thanks for the update. Although the jury is still out on how it impacts Joe 'allocated' Bourbon drinker. It may in fact become 'worse', because there will now be for more stores receiving allocations or lesser quantity, meaning, store X that never got BT products can now get them and gouge the customer for the select few they receive.....thus competing with every other store receiving them.

I can't see Buffalo Trace releasing more allocated bottles. Or at least: I wouldn't if I were them.

Consumers are weird. My money is, if you could get unlimited BTAC and Blantons? IMHO, demand would plummet, and they'd sit on shelves.

Bourbon fans are all brand new to this stuff, and FOMO guides their choices.

[kramerica.inc]

Thanks for the update. Although the jury is still out on how it impacts Joe 'allocated' Bourbon drinker. It may in fact become 'worse', because there will now be for more stores receiving allocations or lesser quantity, meaning, store X that never got BT products can now get them and gouge the customer for the select few they receive.....thus competing with every other store receiving them.

I can't see Buffalo Trace releasing more allocated bottles. Or at least: I wouldn't if I were them.

Consumers are weird. My money is, if you could get unlimited BTAC and Blantons? IMHO, demand would plummet, and they'd sit on shelves.

Bourbon fans are all brand new to this stuff, and FOMO guides their choices.

100%

I have a lot of stuff in my bar right now that's allocated, but I'm not popping any of those bottles to drink on the regular. Due to scarcity, I've been saving for holidays, and giving for gifts and life events.

The allocation and restricted market has pushed me the other direction that I'm much more open to trying something new.

And I've found that there are PLENTY of really good bottles available out there. All readily available and many cheap in comparison to those allocated brands.

Ones I've had over the holidays worth sharing:

Anything by Whistle Pigg or Barrell. Everything I've tried has been fantastic.
Sagamore sherry cask was very tasty.
Under $30 steals:
Larceny. Forget killing yourself finding Pappy or Weller. Try something other than Makers. This isn't gonna set the world on fire, but it is a really well-balanced, easy sipper.
Jack Daniels Bonded. I'm generally not a JD fan, but this is tasty, and more complex than I expected. Has me looking at JD differently. A great value for the money, IMO.

[a fan]

Thanks for the update. Although the jury is still out on how it impacts Joe 'allocated' Bourbon drinker. It may in fact become 'worse', because there will now be for more stores receiving allocations or lesser quantity, meaning, store X that never got BT products can now get them and gouge the customer for the select few they receive.....thus competing with every other store receiving them.

I can't see Buffalo Trace releasing more allocated bottles. Or at least: I wouldn't if I were them.

Consumers are weird. My money is, if you could get unlimited BTAC and Blantons? IMHO, demand would plummet, and they'd sit on shelves.

Bourbon fans are all brand new to this stuff, and FOMO guides their choices.

100%

I have a lot of stuff in my bar right now that's allocated, but I'm not popping any of those bottles to drink on the regular. Due to scarcity, I've been saving for holidays, and giving for gifts and life events.

The allocation and restricted market has pushed me the other direction that I'm much more open to trying something new.

And I've found that there are PLENTY of really good bottles available out there. All readily available and many cheap in comparison to those allocated brands.

Ones I've had over the holidays worth sharing:

Anything by Whistle Pigg or Barrell. Everything I've tried has been fantastic.
Sagamore sherry cask was very tasty.
Under $30 steals:
Larceny. Forget killing yourself finding Pappy or Weller. Try something other than Makers. This isn't gonna set the world on fire, but it is a really well-balanced, easy sipper.
Jack Daniels Bonded. I'm generally not a JD fan, but this is tasty, and more complex than I expected. Has me looking at JD differently. A great value for the money, IMO.

Don't forget Dickel. Nicole Austin is among the best in the business when it comes to blending....and Dickel prices are the lowest in the industry in terms of age versus price. I can't speak to your State in particular, but I think they're easy to find. Their 8yo is usually around $30....crazy for 2023 pricing.

I'm a fan of all the Major's whiskies...it's about mood. Whiskey fans have made the same dumb mistake that beer fans did......they think that simple is bad, and in your face 1,000 different flavors with tons of oak, and "hazmat" whiskies are the only world class whiskies.

This is utter nonsense, and I'm happy to see that you and YA get that. Sometimes simple is what you want. We partner with some fantastic brewers by selling them malt and barrels. They've learned our crew is a lager house....simple, clean, well made beer is what we want. So when they bring us free beer, they've stopped bringing us the 14% barrel aged whatevers, and only bring us 4%-5% lagers. It's glorious. We can't remember the last time we paid for packaged beer!

Granted, we're moving out stocks to these 10, 15, 20 yo options....but we're a TINY outfit, and simply can't get you that 8yo $30 bottle.

[kramerica.inc]

Thanks for the reminder. Gonna have to revisit their offerings!
I haven't tried any Dickel since your collab, which was fantastic!
Not sure how long Nicole Austin has been there, but that is one brand I have enjoyed thoroughly over the past few years. I will definitely see what I can find this week.

[a fan]

Thanks for the reminder. Gonna have to revisit their offerings!
I haven't tried any Dickel since your collab, which was fantastic!
Not sure how long Nicole Austin has been there, but that is one brand I have enjoyed thoroughly over the past few years. I will definitely see what I can find this week.

Nicole has been there five years, and has been directly responsible for the Bourbon releases.....the 14yo, the 8yo and of course, the collaboration.

She's brilliant, and is taking a 100+ year old distillery in a great new direction.

[youthathletics]

I try to keep a bottle of the Dickel Rye on my shelf at all times....great mixer and daily sipper. For ~ $25 bucks, its a win.

I also enjoy Mello Corn (~$15)...go ahead and hate, but as afan says....depends on the mood, sometimes I just want to taste some liquid corn bread.

[HooDat]

Knob Creek has become my "everyday" bourbon.

Used to keep a bottle from this outfit from Colorado in my liquor cabinet, but they aren't carried by any of my local stores anymore.

[a fan]

I try to keep a bottle of the Dickel Rye on my shelf at all times....great mixer and daily sipper. For ~ $25 bucks, its a win.

I also enjoy Mello Corn (~$15)...go ahead and hate, but as afan says....depends on the mood, sometimes I just want to taste some liquid corn bread.

I LOVE Mellow Corn. So do many of the best whiskey writers in the world.....you're in good stead. It's a last vestige of a dying style.

We'll be making some when our new Three Chamber arrives....