PRO Pot

[DMac]

Looooooooooong overdue. This is a big deal in that banks will now get involved. How idiotic is it that pot is still a Sched 1 drug? About as idiotic as the whole war on drugs, I guess.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... d=msedgntp

[Bart]

Looooooooooong overdue. This is a big deal in that banks will now get involved. How idiotic is it that pot is still a Sched 1 drug? About as idiotic as the whole war on drugs, I guess.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... d=msedgntp

I can't even imagine what the total tax on that would end up being. Lets see, 20% state tax (as an example) added on to the federal tax...... Ooof.

And Yes, I agree DMac, the illegality of pot boggles my mind.

[DMac]

Yup, it'll be interesting to see where they start out at but ultimately it'll still be the black market boys who dictate the prices (and I must say I do get a kick out of that). I think you'll probably remember the Walrus but unfortunately he hasn't been around for quite a number of years now. It was fantastic having him here when Colorado was trying to figure how they were going to handle the legalization as he was somehow involved in those goings on and had some great insight. When they finally put it together I LMAO when I saw the prices, think it was $600 an ounce. Posted at the time that the black market boys will get those prices down in the very near future and that's exactly what happened. Same thing will happen here.

[PizzaSnake]

Yup, it'll be interesting to see where they start out at but ultimately it'll still be the black market boys who dictate the prices (and I must say I do get a kick out of that). I think you'll probably remember the Walrus but unfortunately he hasn't been around for quite a number of years now. It was fantastic having him here when Colorado was trying to figure how they were going to handle the legalization as he was somehow involved in those goings on and had some great insight. When they finally put it together I LMAO when I saw the prices, think it was $600 an ounce. Posted at the time that the black market boys will get those prices down in the very near future and that's exactly what happened. Same thing will happen here.

Question is whether they will be able to catch the "black market" boy's money launderers. If they can't, you are correct that they will dictate the market price.

Me, I'd hit the banks, 'cause that's where the "buck stops"...

Of course, that would impact too many country club Repubs like John Boehner, so it won't happen.

See the article on psilocybin possibly promoting more numerous, thicker dendrite spines?

"Imaging studies in rodents have shown how just a single dose of the psychedelic drug, psilocybin—the compound found in “magic mushrooms”—prompts structural remodeling of neurons in the brain that could help to explain the drug’s reported antidepressant effects. The studies, by researchers at Yale University, found that administering psilocybin to mice led to an immediate and long-lasting increase in the number and strength of connections between neurons in a specific region of the cortex. Interestingly, they pointed out, other research has shown that subanesthetic doses of the drug ketamine cause similar rapid increases in spine density and elevation of spine formation rate in the medial frontal cortex."

https://www.genengnews.com/news/psyched ... epression/

Fewer opioids, more psilocybin all around. Oops, merchants of death can't corner that market so "no go".

I wonder when the average American is going to wake the fork up and realize how they are getting hosed?

[DMac]

PizzaSnake wrote
Question is whether they will be able to catch the "black market" boy's money launderers. If they can't, you are correct that they will dictate the market price.

Me, I'd hit the banks, 'cause that's where the "buck stops"...

I think the black market boys will dictate the prices for a long time, they're going nowhere, currently have the entire market (which you know is huge) and there's just no reason (beyond the novelty of walking into a store and legally buying some pot) to pay 2-3 times as much for the same product you've been buying all along. The quality in the pot shops is no better/different than what you get on the black market. Those highly protected and tracked seeds that weren't supposed to cross any borders did and are spread nationwide....big surprise there. NYS is going to be playing catch up for many years to come, they gave those experienced black market boys a giant head start while they were fighting their war on drugs.

Don't get what you mean by I'd hit the banks cuz that's where the buck stops.

[Bart]

Yup, it'll be interesting to see where they start out at but ultimately it'll still be the black market boys who dictate the prices (and I must say I do get a kick out of that). I think you'll probably remember the Walrus but unfortunately he hasn't been around for quite a number of years now. It was fantastic having him here when Colorado was trying to figure how they were going to handle the legalization as he was somehow involved in those goings on and had some great insight. When they finally put it together I LMAO when I saw the prices, think it was $600 an ounce. Posted at the time that the black market boys will get those prices down in the very near future and that's exactly what happened. Same thing will happen here.

I think Mass is almost there. $480 includes tax from what I can tell.

[youthathletics]

Legalized pot markets have shortages AND it seems legal pot also has a racist element....go figure.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/01/in-bill ... ation.html

I have worked in a few grow facilities.....all three were busting at the seems within a years time. One place has built a monstrous greenhouse adjacent to the already huge indoor facility at Maryland Cultivation and Processing. The owner keeps a lax stick in his office to play wall ball.

[Bart]

Legalized pot markets have shortages AND it seems legal pot also has a racist element....go figure.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/01/in-bill ... ation.html

I have worked in a few grow facilities.....all three were busting at the seems within a years time. One place has built a monstrous greenhouse adjacent to the already huge indoor facility at Maryland Cultivation and Processing. The owner keeps a lax stick in his office to play wall ball.

Curious. How do these grow facilities work in terms of regulation and monitoring?

[DMac]

Not what you're looking for but a pretty interesting tour of a facility and the process. The Banger looks a little scary despite its being so handsome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxKpn-pNRo

[Bart]

Not what you're looking for but a pretty interesting tour of a facility and the process. The Banger looks a little scary despite its being so handsome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxKpn-pNRo

That was interesting. Thanks.

[RedFromMI]

Editorial in today's WaPo:

Five myths about marijuana
No, it doesn’t lead to violent crime, and no, those strains aren’t that different

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... story.html

Five myths busted according to the author, who provides evidence to back up his statements:

Myth No. 1

Marijuana is a gateway drug.

Myth No. 2

Marijuana leads to violent crime.

Myth No. 3

Potency is an important indicator of quality and safety.

Myth No. 4

Different strains produce different intoxicating effects.

Myth No. 5

Legalization has been a public health disaster.

[youthathletics]

Paywall got me. I look for what is missing in articles. Gateway implies habit forming, More here: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/ ... teway-drug

Seems the article is trying to justify the safety of it, without the concerning negatives.

Early exposure to cannabinoids in adolescent rodents decreases the reactivity of brain dopamine reward centers later in adulthood.47 To the extent that these findings generalize to humans, this could help explain the increased vulnerability for addiction to other substances of misuse later in life that most epidemiological studies have reported for people who begin marijuana use early in life.48 It is also consistent with animal experiments showing THC’s ability to "prime" the brain for enhanced responses to other drugs.49 For example, rats previously administered THC show heightened behavioral response not only when further exposed to THC but also when exposed to other drugs such as morphine—a phenomenon called cross-sensitization

I have had two uncles tell me point blank had they not started smoking weed as teenagers, they would not have introduced heroin in to the body, then got hooked. Both escalated to hardcore drug use while high.

I have heard Chris Herron speak admittedly about the steps of addiction, beginning in teenage years with a red solo cup, to then being under in the influence of alcohol, then saying eff it I'll get high", to then being high and saying eff it "i'll take this bump', and so on.

[DMac]

youth, everything in moderation, some people are just more susceptible to addiction and/or lack discipline/self control.
I've been a pot smoker for fifty years (did not start as a teen) and have never done any other drugs minus alcohol (and I'm very limited with that too) and coke one time many years ago which I must say worked like a champ. Alcohol is by far the gateway drug despite all the nonsense we've been told about marijuana for the past fifty years. Pot is relatively harmless in the grand scheme of things.

[PizzaSnake]

Paywall got me. I look for what is missing in articles. Gateway implies habit forming, More here: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/ ... teway-drug

Seems the article is trying to justify the safety of it, without the concerning negatives.

Early exposure to cannabinoids in adolescent rodents decreases the reactivity of brain dopamine reward centers later in adulthood.47 To the extent that these findings generalize to humans, this could help explain the increased vulnerability for addiction to other substances of misuse later in life that most epidemiological studies have reported for people who begin marijuana use early in life.48 It is also consistent with animal experiments showing THC’s ability to "prime" the brain for enhanced responses to other drugs.49 For example, rats previously administered THC show heightened behavioral response not only when further exposed to THC but also when exposed to other drugs such as morphine—a phenomenon called cross-sensitization

I have had two uncles tell me point blank had they not started smoking weed as teenagers, they would not have introduced heroin in to the body, then got hooked. Both escalated to hardcore drug use while high.

I have heard Chris Herron speak admittedly about the steps of addiction, beginning in teenage years with a red solo cup, to then being under in the influence of alcohol, then saying eff it I'll get high", to then being high and saying eff it "i'll take this bump', and so on.

"decreases the reactivity of brain dopamine reward centers later in adulthood"

"heightened behavioral response not only when further exposed to THC but also when exposed to other drugs such as morphine—a phenomenon called cross-sensitization"


So which is it, "decreased reactivity, or heightened behavioral response"?

This sounds like bad science. Where is the control group? Performing scans on addicts with history of "drug abuse" without a longitudinal study with one group not exposed and one exposed is a real example of the oft-misused expression: begging the question.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2948245/

How the hill does this sort of nonsense pass any review? How do they know whether or not some "defect" in these brains are conducive to this debilitation and that the data is correlate and not causative?

Looks like someone wanted a grant so they wrote an application biased towards what the FDA wanted to hear.

"Based on brain imaging findings, we present a model according to which addiction emerges as an imbalance in the information processing and integration among various brain circuits and functions. The dysfunctions reflect (a) decreased sensitivity of reward circuits, (b) enhanced sensitivity of memory circuits to conditioned expectations to drugs and drug cues, stress reactivity, and (c) negative mood, and a weakened control circuit. Although initial experimentation with a drug of abuse is largely a voluntary behavior, continued drug use can eventually impair neuronal circuits in the brain that are involved in free will, turning drug use into an automatic compulsive behavior. The ability of addictive drugs to co-opt neuro-transmitter signals between neurons (including dopamine, glutamate, and GABA) modifies the function of different neuronal circuits, which begin to falter at different stages of an addiction trajectory. Upon exposure to the drug, drug cues or stress this results in unrestrained hyperactivation of the motivation/drive circuit that results in the compulsive drug intake that characterizes addiction."

"Drawing largely from the results of brain imaging studies that used positron emission tomography (PET), we introduce the key brain circuits that are affected by the chronic abuse of drugs and then present a coherent model, according to which addiction emerges as the net result of imbalanced information processing in and among these circuits. A thorough understanding of these gradual adaptive (neuroplastic) brain processes, and of the biological and environmental vulnerability factors that influence their likelihood, is critical for the development of more effective prevention and treatment approaches to combat addiction."

[cradleandshoot]

Editorial in today's WaPo:

Five myths about marijuana
No, it doesn’t lead to violent crime, and no, those strains aren’t that different

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... story.html

Five myths busted according to the author, who provides evidence to back up his statements:

Myth No. 1

Marijuana is a gateway drug.

Myth No. 2

Marijuana leads to violent crime.

Myth No. 3

Potency is an important indicator of quality and safety.

Myth No. 4

Different strains produce different intoxicating effects.

Myth No. 5

Legalization has been a public health disaster.

I don't know about #1. How many people do you know that found their way to cocaine without ever having smoked weed? One thing always leads to another.

[PizzaSnake]

Editorial in today's WaPo:

Five myths about marijuana
No, it doesn’t lead to violent crime, and no, those strains aren’t that different

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... story.html

Five myths busted according to the author, who provides evidence to back up his statements:

Myth No. 1

Marijuana is a gateway drug.

Myth No. 2

Marijuana leads to violent crime.

Myth No. 3

Potency is an important indicator of quality and safety.

Myth No. 4

Different strains produce different intoxicating effects.

Myth No. 5

Legalization has been a public health disaster.

I don't know about #1. How many people do you know that found their way to cocaine without ever having smoked weed? One thing always leads to another.

Leading cause of death is life...

[cradleandshoot]

Editorial in today's WaPo:

Five myths about marijuana
No, it doesn’t lead to violent crime, and no, those strains aren’t that different

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... story.html

Five myths busted according to the author, who provides evidence to back up his statements:

Myth No. 1

Marijuana is a gateway drug.

Myth No. 2

Marijuana leads to violent crime.

Myth No. 3

Potency is an important indicator of quality and safety.

Myth No. 4

Different strains produce different intoxicating effects.

Myth No. 5

Legalization has been a public health disaster.

I don't know about #1. How many people do you know that found their way to cocaine without ever having smoked weed? One thing always leads to another.

Leading cause of death is life...

No one gets out alive.

[ggait]

I don't know about #1. How many people do you know that found their way to cocaine without ever having smoked weed? One thing always leads to another.

Honestly, have you ever met a coke head who was a teetotaler? I haven't.

I don't know if Hunter Biden smoked weed, but he's admitted he drank like a fish on his way to crack cocaine. Pretty typical story I think.

I would bet that virtually all cocaine users are also alcohol drinkers.

I would make the same bet for folks hooked on oxy or meth.

Addiction is a disease that usually migrates from one outlet to another. Booze, weed, drugs, gambling, porn, tobacco, video games, etc. And usually migrates from milder to stronger forms -- beer/wine to high proof liquor shots to coke to opioids....

[RedFromMI]

I don't know about #1. How many people do you know that found their way to cocaine without ever having smoked weed? One thing always leads to another.

Honestly, have you ever met a coke head who was a teetotaler? I haven't.

I would bet that virtually all cocaine users are also alcohol drinkers.

I would make the same bet for folks hooked on oxy or meth.

Addiction is a disease that usually migrates from one outlet to another. Booze, weed, drugs, gambling, porn, tobacco, video games, etc. And usually migrates from milder to stronger forms -- beer/wine to high proof liquor shots to coke to opioids....

The same argument being made here: drinking milk leads to pot use - who do you know that smokes pot did not drink milk growing up. Of course that one is ridiculous - but so is saying that pot use _leads_ to say, cocaine use. There are no significant studies (at least without serious problems in that study) that show that linkage, as the article I quote discusses...

[ggait]

As a Colorado resident, I'm accepting of legalized pot but not an enthusiastic supporter. It just makes overwhelming sense.

One clear benefit of weed though. It has been studied and the results are very clear and demonstrated.

No one should drive impaired. But stoned drivers are MUCH MUCH safer drivers than drunk drivers.