JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

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cradleandshoot
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by cradleandshoot »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:17 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:08 pm
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:59 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 7:09 am Thanks for the advice. I'm more than happy to continue the conversation on this thread. The bottom line is trump was boinking this porn star and paid her money to keep her mouth shut. Then to cover up his crime he used the term " legal expenses" instead of " hush money" So this is what this entire case against trump is based on. Was it illegal to classify these payments as " legal expenses" ? It is interesting how the collective mindset of FLP folks always opines about keeping government out of the bedroom. The exception to this FLP commandment is when the bed belongs to trump. Then you will move heaven and earth to make an exception to your own commandment. The FLP mantra when it was Bill Clinton being held accountable for his ally cat nature we were lectured that it was just sex and nobody's damn business how many times Clinton got his knob polished in the oral office. At least Bill never tried to pay hush money. That might be because Clinton didn't have the money to pay to keep certain mouths shut. :D
Well hey, it's a free country. I certainly can't stop you from sounding idiotic and waay off topic in yet another thread. So go ahead and dribble in this one if you want to. :lol:
Idiotic and way off topic...damn I'm starting to sound like you... Here's your sign... :D
Half your posts these days are some version of "I know you are but what am I," either directed at others or at Biden. It's not a great schtick, you should try to be a little more original.
I'll take your criticism at face value taking into account who is doing the criticism. 8-) I'll take my schtick over your your schtick any day of the week. :D
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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dislaxxic
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by dislaxxic »

THE PHONE CONTACTS BETWEEN THE “TOTAL MORON” AND THE PAC HEAD

The "total moron" in this case being Boris Epshteyn, an "advisor" to Trump in the Stolen Documents case...

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:24 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:39 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:31 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:48 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:15 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:04 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 4:53 pm Anybody have an explanation how so many of our elected officials go to Washington with not even 2 nickels to rub together and a pot to pee in and 20 years later they are multi millionaires? And all on the pay of a US Congress person. They must clipping coupons and shopping at Aldi's. You can buy a can of green beans for like 50 cents. I guess a fair assumption for the American voter would involve the conclusion that most all of them are in on the grift. What some representative could do is share their secret of how they have become so wealthy. They must be extraordinary money managers. :D
Why do you seem so desperate to change the subject from this trial to Congress critters?
See thread title.
Well it should obvious to you. The critters that are after Trump have likely been engaged in grifting to benefit themselves. So your not the least bit curious how the Congress critters became rich? Maybe because they understand that greed is good in their world. I mean these same people that want trumps head on a platter are the same NYC/NYS politicians that kissed trumps ass and cashed all of his checks. You don't seem to remember that trump was the hero of The Apprentice crowd that loved watching trump be an ass wipe every week on TV. Why even the queen of evil gave trump googly eyes in that picture at trumps wedding. Spare me your spin. The undeniable fact is liberal Democrats loved trump before they hated trump. They hope that everybody forgets that. It didn't take long for you to erase it from your memory. ;)
Plenty interested in Congress self-dealing, insider trading etc.
Just has nothing to do with this legal trial.
I believe the two are more intertwined than you would admit. So many in Congress use their political positions to feather their nests. Trump has been feathering his nest, or was feathering it by donating money to the people that now want to see his ass in jail even though that will never happen and all of you know that already. I suppose at best trump will wind up with an ankle monitor. Now if your worst nightmare comes true and trump wins in November the dynamics take a drastic turn for the worst. That is when the hunters become the hunted. Whatta ya think a trump DoJ will do? No need to reply because you already know the answer.
Again, I think there's no relationship between this trial and any of the Dems, nor R's, about whom you complain. None.

Yes, I fully believe that if Trump wins, it'll be Trump Unbound, MAGA Unbound, full on authoritarian retribution within the following few years. Some in months. But that has nothing to do with Trumping criminally tried, other than that Trump actually is a criminal sociopath so expecting the worst from him is reasonable to do.
There is everything to establish a relationship with the Ds and Rs in DC. They understand that trump can't campaign if his fat ass is forced to sit in a courtroom for the duration of his trial. Make him cool his heels if you like. The old poker player in me understands the strategy. This is political Texas Hold em and the Ds have gone all in. You don't think the Ds and the establishment Rs are not 100% behind the trump prosecutions? They love watching trump squirm. If trump wins in November alot of Democrats may be renouncing their American citizenship and relocating to France for a period of time. Maybe John Kerry can donate some of his free time teaching French to those moving to France. No wonder so many Democrats are having anxiety attacks about what happens in November. They understand what will happen if trump wins. Too bad that DFJ is the horse they have been given to bet on.
gotta tell you again, you're fully out to lunch if you think D's and R's in DC are orchestrating the criminal trials of Trump. Lots of folks may be cheered that Trump is facing the music for the first time in his life and they're rooting for him to lose and do hard time, but actually being involved is flat nonsense.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:51 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:24 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:39 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:31 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:48 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:15 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:04 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 4:53 pm Anybody have an explanation how so many of our elected officials go to Washington with not even 2 nickels to rub together and a pot to pee in and 20 years later they are multi millionaires? And all on the pay of a US Congress person. They must clipping coupons and shopping at Aldi's. You can buy a can of green beans for like 50 cents. I guess a fair assumption for the American voter would involve the conclusion that most all of them are in on the grift. What some representative could do is share their secret of how they have become so wealthy. They must be extraordinary money managers. :D
Why do you seem so desperate to change the subject from this trial to Congress critters?
See thread title.
Well it should obvious to you. The critters that are after Trump have likely been engaged in grifting to benefit themselves. So your not the least bit curious how the Congress critters became rich? Maybe because they understand that greed is good in their world. I mean these same people that want trumps head on a platter are the same NYC/NYS politicians that kissed trumps ass and cashed all of his checks. You don't seem to remember that trump was the hero of The Apprentice crowd that loved watching trump be an ass wipe every week on TV. Why even the queen of evil gave trump googly eyes in that picture at trumps wedding. Spare me your spin. The undeniable fact is liberal Democrats loved trump before they hated trump. They hope that everybody forgets that. It didn't take long for you to erase it from your memory. ;)
Plenty interested in Congress self-dealing, insider trading etc.
Just has nothing to do with this legal trial.
I believe the two are more intertwined than you would admit. So many in Congress use their political positions to feather their nests. Trump has been feathering his nest, or was feathering it by donating money to the people that now want to see his ass in jail even though that will never happen and all of you know that already. I suppose at best trump will wind up with an ankle monitor. Now if your worst nightmare comes true and trump wins in November the dynamics take a drastic turn for the worst. That is when the hunters become the hunted. Whatta ya think a trump DoJ will do? No need to reply because you already know the answer.
Again, I think there's no relationship between this trial and any of the Dems, nor R's, about whom you complain. None.

Yes, I fully believe that if Trump wins, it'll be Trump Unbound, MAGA Unbound, full on authoritarian retribution within the following few years. Some in months. But that has nothing to do with Trumping criminally tried, other than that Trump actually is a criminal sociopath so expecting the worst from him is reasonable to do.
There is everything to establish a relationship with the Ds and Rs in DC. They understand that trump can't campaign if his fat ass is forced to sit in a courtroom for the duration of his trial. Make him cool his heels if you like. The old poker player in me understands the strategy. This is political Texas Hold em and the Ds have gone all in. You don't think the Ds and the establishment Rs are not 100% behind the trump prosecutions? They love watching trump squirm. If trump wins in November alot of Democrats may be renouncing their American citizenship and relocating to France for a period of time. Maybe John Kerry can donate some of his free time teaching French to those moving to France. No wonder so many Democrats are having anxiety attacks about what happens in November. They understand what will happen if trump wins. Too bad that DFJ is the horse they have been given to bet on.
gotta tell you again, you're fully out to lunch if you think D's and R's in DC are orchestrating the criminal trials of Trump. Lots of folks may be cheered that Trump is facing the music for the first time in his life and they're rooting for him to lose and do hard time, but actually being involved is flat nonsense.
I'm only concerned in this instance regarding the hush money. I'm not 100% up to speed on all of the nooks and crannies of the case. The basic gist is trump paid the pornstar big bucks to keep her mouth closed about the affair. As part of the bookkeeping process... :roll: ...these payments were defined as " legal fees" We are now meandering in the same arena of thought that Bill Clinton boldly declared that getting a BJ was technically not sex. As you have boldly stated trump is now strolling into what a technicality is. Was it a legal fee or was it hush money? Is a BJ sex or is it something else? This is a sincere question that is at the heart of this case IMO ... What is a legitimate legal expense? FTR, I have no idea.
In theory I believe trump paid back his lawyer for paying the porn star allowing him do declare it as a legal expense. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm only wondering if this is a technicality.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by a fan »

cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:19 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:46 am
SCLaxAttack wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:16 am
old salt wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 1:43 am The NY Times is hedging their bets. They smell a stinker.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/23/opin ... trial.html

I Thought the Bragg Case Against Trump Was a Legal Embarrassment. Now I Think It’s a Historic Mistake.

April 23, 2024
By Jed Handelsman Shugerman
Mr. Shugerman is a law professor at Boston University.

About a year ago, when Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney, indicted former President Donald Trump, I was critical of the case and called it an embarrassment. I thought an array of legal problems would and should lead to long delays in federal courts.

After listening to Monday’s opening statement by prosecutors, I still think the Manhattan D.A. has made a historic mistake. Their vague allegation about “a criminal scheme to corrupt the 2016 presidential election” has me more concerned than ever about their unprecedented use of state law and their persistent avoidance of specifying an election crime or a valid theory of fraud.

To recap: Mr. Trump is accused in the case of falsifying business records. Those are misdemeanor charges. To elevate it to a criminal case, Mr. Bragg and his team have pointed to potential violations of federal election law and state tax fraud. They also cite state election law, but state statutory definitions of “public office” seem to limit those statutes to state and local races.

Both the misdemeanor and felony charges require that the defendant made the false record with “intent to defraud.” A year ago, I wondered how entirely internal business records (the daily ledger, pay stubs and invoices) could be the basis of any fraud if they are not shared with anyone outside the business. I suggested that the real fraud was Mr. Trump’s filing an (allegedly) false report to the Federal Election Commission, and only federal prosecutors had jurisdiction over that filing.

A recent conversation with Jeffrey Cohen, a friend, Boston College law professor and former prosecutor, made me think that the case could turn out to be more legitimate than I had originally thought. The reason has to do with those allegedly falsified business records: Most of them were entered in early 2017, generally before Mr. Trump filed his Federal Election Commission report that summer. Mr. Trump may have foreseen an investigation into his campaign, leading to its financial records. Mr. Trump may have falsely recorded these internal records before the F.E.C. filing as consciously part of the same fraud: to create a consistent paper trail and to hide intent to violate federal election laws, or defraud the F.E.C.

Looking at the case in this way might address concerns about state jurisdiction. In this scenario, Mr. Trump arguably intended to deceive state investigators, too. State investigators could find these inconsistencies and alert federal agencies. Prosecutors could argue that New York State agencies have an interest in detecting conspiracies to defraud federal entities; they might also have a plausible answer to significant questions about whether New York State has jurisdiction or whether this stretch of a state business filing law is pre-empted by federal law.

However, this explanation is a novel interpretation with many significant legal problems. And none of the Manhattan D.A.’s filings or today’s opening statement even hint at this approach.

Instead of a theory of defrauding state regulators, Mr. Bragg has adopted a weak theory of “election interference,” and Justice Juan Merchan described the case, in his summary of it during jury selection, as an allegation of falsifying business records “to conceal an agreement with others to unlawfully influence the 2016 election.”

As a reality check, it is legal for a candidate to pay for a nondisclosure agreement. Hush money is unseemly, but it is legal. The election law scholar Richard Hasen rightly observed, “Calling it election interference actually cheapens the term and undermines the deadly serious charges in the real election interference cases.”

In Monday’s opening argument, the prosecutor Matthew Colangelo still evaded specifics about what was illegal about influencing an election, but then he claimed, “It was election fraud, pure and simple.” None of the relevant state or federal statutes refer to filing violations as fraud. Calling it “election fraud” is a legal and strategic mistake, exaggerating the case and setting up the jury with high expectations that the prosecutors cannot meet.

The most accurate description of this criminal case is a federal campaign finance filing violation. Without a federal violation (which the state election statute is tethered to), Mr. Bragg cannot upgrade the misdemeanor counts into felonies. Moreover, it is unclear how this case would even fulfill the misdemeanor requirement of “intent to defraud” without the federal crime.

In stretching jurisdiction and trying a federal crime in state court, the Manhattan D.A. is now pushing untested legal interpretations and applications. I see three red flags raising concerns about selective prosecution upon appeal.

First, I could find no previous case of any state prosecutor relying on the Federal Election Campaign Act either as a direct crime or a predicate crime. Whether state prosecutors have avoided doing so as a matter of law, norms or lack of expertise, this novel attempt is a sign of overreach.

Second, Mr. Trump’s lawyers argued that the New York statute requires that the predicate (underlying) crime must also be a New York crime, not a crime in another jurisdiction. The Manhattan D.A. responded with judicial precedents only about other criminal statutes, not the statute in this case. In the end, they could not cite a single judicial interpretation of this particular statute supporting their use of the statute (a plea deal and a single jury instruction do not count).

Third, no New York precedent has allowed an interpretation of defrauding the general public. Legal experts have noted that such a broad “election interference” theory is unprecedented, and a conviction based on it may not survive a state appeal.

Mr. Trump’s legal team also undercut itself for its decisions in the past year: His lawyers essentially put all of their eggs in the meritless basket of seeking to move the trial to federal court, instead of seeking a federal injunction to stop the trial entirely. If they had raised the issues of selective or vindictive prosecution and a mix of jurisdictional, pre-emption and constitutional claims, they could have delayed the trial past Election Day, even if they lost at each federal stage.

Another reason a federal crime has wound up in state court is that President Biden’s Justice Department bent over backward not to reopen this valid case or appoint a special counsel. Mr. Trump has tried to blame Mr. Biden for this prosecution as the real “election interference.” The Biden administration’s extra restraint belies this allegation and deserves more credit.

Eight years after the alleged crime itself, it is reasonable to ask if this is more about Manhattan politics than New York law. This case should serve as a cautionary tale about broader prosecutorial abuses in America — and promote bipartisan reforms of our partisan prosecutorial system.

Nevertheless, prosecutors should have some latitude to develop their case during trial, and maybe they will be more careful and precise about the underlying crime, fraud and the jurisdictional questions. Mr. Trump has received sufficient notice of the charges, and he can raise his arguments on appeal. One important principle of “our Federalism,” in the Supreme Court’s terms, is abstention, that federal courts should generally allow state trials to proceed first and wait to hear challenges later.

This case is still an embarrassment of prosecutorial ethics and apparent selective prosecution. Nevertheless, each side should have its day in court. If convicted, Mr. Trump can fight many other days — and perhaps win — in appellate courts. But if Monday’s opening is a preview of exaggerated allegations, imprecise legal theories and persistently unaddressed problems, the prosecutors might not win a conviction at all.
You're not complaining that that "liberal rag" NYT is publishing an editorial with a different perspective from their editors, are you?
1000% the wrong take, and this is what Trump has done to Americans who are SUPPOSED to understand what honesty and integrity means.

The CORRECT take is: they've been letting Trump and his fellow 1%ers break laws in places like New York City with abandon, because they've got political connections, and therefore the power to break laws that the rest of us have to follow.

So the same geniuses who think that Trump shouldn't have to follow laws, are the exact same people who lost their minds over the smash and grab mobs breaking laws. "That's different", of course. :roll:


These are business related laws that guys like me have to freaking follow, or we'll lose EVERYTHING. So this Op-Ed idiot doesn't' know right from wrong anymore, and it's Trump that led him there. "Everyone does it" isn't a freaking legal----or ethical--- defense, despite what the 2024 Republican voter now thinks.

Republicans USED to be the Sheriff Andy Griffiths of the world. Not anymore, and it's really F'ing sad.
The real issue is that the FLP leadership in NYC fed and nurtured the trump beast. They gave him his own reality TV show. They happily cashed all of his campaign checks. It is Monday morning quarterbacking on my part but I'm only commenting on how trump was their hero before he became their arch enemy. You have to remember that the NYS Democrats use to love trump before they hated him.
Well sure, but this is hardly a mystery as to why: he gave them money.

My point is: Trump ain't the only 1%er who didn't have to follow laws in NYC, or at any of his properties. I want them ALL held accountable, not just Trump.

How many illegal workers were at Trump properties over the years, Cradle. And yet no one busted him in all that time. Gee, I wonder why?

Those Trump campaign contributions weren't for fun. It was grift.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... businesses
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

And of course the creator of The Apprentice is a British dude who has created a number of Christian shows in addition to his many reality shows.

Not sure why C&S thinks this is some kind of gotcha - a greasy rich dude trying to grease the skids of politicians where he was in business?

Maybe it's to justify C&S's vote come November?
ggait
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by ggait »

In theory I believe trump paid back his lawyer for paying the porn star allowing him do declare it as a legal expense. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm only wondering if this is a technicality.
Not a technicality at all. Obvious fraud and cooking the books.

Felonious because the fraud was done to cover up a campaign finance violation. Which also required Cohen to file false tax returns. The only reason you'd ever do what they did is to cover up a crime.

All of us practicing lawyers will front expenses for clients and then get reimbursed. Let's say I pay $1,000 in incidental filing fees for a client for convenience and then charge $10k for legal services. I send an invoice for $11k ($1k expenses; $10k legal services). The $1k comes to me tax free (reimbursement not income). The $10k is fee income and taxable. Super simple. Now compare what Cohen and Trump did.

First, Cohen sets up a shell company to receive and send the funds. What the heck? No one does this.

Second, Cohen takes out a home equity loan on his house to come up with the $130k. What the heck? No one does this. Also, possibly this is mortgage fraud by Cohen.

Third, Trump pays Cohen $260k (not $130k) disguised as taxable fee income. What the heck? No one does this. Why? Since they fraudulently call it fee income, Cohen (who is in about a 50% tax bracket) needs to receive $260k taxable in order to get his $130k reimbursed net after tax. FYI, DA in opening said they had Trump's CFO's handwritten notes about the 100% tax gross up.

No one would do this other than to crime and launder the payments.

Why in the world would notorious cheapskate Trump pay double what he owed Cohen? Trump could have just paid the $130k to Cohen as a "reimbursement of NDA payment." Cohen would owe no taxes on that.

You see what's going on now?
Last edited by ggait on Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
ggait
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by ggait »

Salty -- Prof. Shugerman gets an F.

Very obvious NYS law that would be the second crime.

NYS business record fraud. Plus NYS election conspiracy/fraud. Equals the felony Trump is being tried for.

You don't need to charge a federal crime to make it work. Although it seems like federal offenses could work too.

Duh.

If you don't think there was fraud, please explain why Trump reimbursed Cohen DOUBLE the $130k that Cohen paid Stormy.


SECTION 17-152
Conspiracy to promote or prevent election
Election (ELN) CHAPTER 17, ARTICLE 17, TITLE 1
§ 17-152. Conspiracy to promote or prevent election. Any two or more
persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to
a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by
one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
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old salt
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by old salt »

ggait wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:59 pm Salty -- Prof. Shugerman gets an F.

Very obvious NYS law that would be the second crime.

NYS business record fraud. Plus NYS election conspiracy/fraud. Equals the felony Trump is being tried for.

You don't need to charge a federal crime to make it work. Although it seems like federal offenses could work too.

Duh.

If you don't think there was fraud, please explain why Trump reimbursed Cohen DOUBLE the $130k that Cohen paid Stormy.

SECTION 17-152
Conspiracy to promote or prevent election
Election (ELN) CHAPTER 17, ARTICLE 17, TITLE 1
§ 17-152. Conspiracy to promote or prevent election. Any two or more
persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to
a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by
one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
Send a letter to the editor of the NYT. Is Trump being charged with a conspiracy ?
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cradleandshoot
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by cradleandshoot »

cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:12 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:51 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:24 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:39 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:31 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:48 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:15 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:04 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 4:53 pm Anybody have an explanation how so many of our elected officials go to Washington with not even 2 nickels to rub together and a pot to pee in and 20 years later they are multi millionaires? And all on the pay of a US Congress person. They must clipping coupons and shopping at Aldi's. You can buy a can of green beans for like 50 cents. I guess a fair assumption for the American voter would involve the conclusion that most all of them are in on the grift. What some representative could do is share their secret of how they have become so wealthy. They must be extraordinary money managers. :D
Why do you seem so desperate to change the subject from this trial to Congress critters?
See thread title.
Well it should obvious to you. The critters that are after Trump have likely been engaged in grifting to benefit themselves. So your not the least bit curious how the Congress critters became rich? Maybe because they understand that greed is good in their world. I mean these same people that want trumps head on a platter are the same NYC/NYS politicians that kissed trumps ass and cashed all of his checks. You don't seem to remember that trump was the hero of The Apprentice crowd that loved watching trump be an ass wipe every week on TV. Why even the queen of evil gave trump googly eyes in that picture at trumps wedding. Spare me your spin. The undeniable fact is liberal Democrats loved trump before they hated trump. They hope that everybody forgets that. It didn't take long for you to erase it from your memory. ;)
Plenty interested in Congress self-dealing, insider trading etc.
Just has nothing to do with this legal trial.
I believe the two are more intertwined than you would admit. So many in Congress use their political positions to feather their nests. Trump has been feathering his nest, or was feathering it by donating money to the people that now want to see his ass in jail even though that will never happen and all of you know that already. I suppose at best trump will wind up with an ankle monitor. Now if your worst nightmare comes true and trump wins in November the dynamics take a drastic turn for the worst. That is when the hunters become the hunted. Whatta ya think a trump DoJ will do? No need to reply because you already know the answer.
Again, I think there's no relationship between this trial and any of the Dems, nor R's, about whom you complain. None.

Yes, I fully believe that if Trump wins, it'll be Trump Unbound, MAGA Unbound, full on authoritarian retribution within the following few years. Some in months. But that has nothing to do with Trumping criminally tried, other than that Trump actually is a criminal sociopath so expecting the worst from him is reasonable to do.
There is everything to establish a relationship with the Ds and Rs in DC. They understand that trump can't campaign if his fat ass is forced to sit in a courtroom for the duration of his trial. Make him cool his heels if you like. The old poker player in me understands the strategy. This is political Texas Hold em and the Ds have gone all in. You don't think the Ds and the establishment Rs are not 100% behind the trump prosecutions? They love watching trump squirm. If trump wins in November alot of Democrats may be renouncing their American citizenship and relocating to France for a period of time. Maybe John Kerry can donate some of his free time teaching French to those moving to France. No wonder so many Democrats are having anxiety attacks about what happens in November. They understand what will happen if trump wins. Too bad that DFJ is the horse they have been given to bet on.
gotta tell you again, you're fully out to lunch if you think D's and R's in DC are orchestrating the criminal trials of Trump. Lots of folks may be cheered that Trump is facing the music for the first time in his life and they're rooting for him to lose and do hard time, but actually being involved is flat nonsense.
I'm only concerned in this instance regarding the hush money. I'm not 100% up to speed on all of the nooks and crannies of the case. The basic gist is trump paid the pornstar big bucks to keep her mouth closed about the affair. As part of the bookkeeping process... :roll: ...these payments were defined as " legal fees" We are now meandering in the same arena of thought that Bill Clinton boldly declared that getting a BJ was technically not sex. As you have boldly stated trump is now strolling into what a technicality is. Was it a legal fee or was it hush money? Is a BJ sex or is it something else? This is a sincere question that is at the heart of this case IMO ... What is a legitimate legal expense? FTR, I have no idea.
In theory I believe trump paid back his lawyer for paying the porn star allowing him do declare it as a legal expense. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm only wondering if this is a technicality.
If these NYS politicians were aware of what scumbag Trump was why would they accept his money? A politician of character would tell trump to keep his money. Then after accepting his money for decades they now opine what a dirtbag he always was. I'm assuming a Fan that you are leary about doing business with people of questionable character? A large # of NYS Democrats had no reservations about accepting Trump's money. Why was that? Easy answer Trump's money was green enough to allow them to look the other way. They even greased the skids for many of his real estate deals. They sure loved him before they hated him. :roll:
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
ggait
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by ggait »

Send a letter to the editor of the NYT. Is Trump being charged with a conspiracy ?
Salty -- I will be back to dunk on you when the judge charges the jury on the basis of NYS section 17-152.

Prof Shugerman was on CNN last night. Quite unconvincing in making the argument that Bragg is SOLELY relying on federal crimes. And ignored again the applicable NYS crimes.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by youthathletics »

ggait wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:59 pm Salty -- Prof. Shugerman gets an F.

Very obvious NYS law that would be the second crime.

NYS business record fraud. Plus NYS election conspiracy/fraud. Equals the felony Trump is being tried for.

You don't need to charge a federal crime to make it work. Although it seems like federal offenses could work too.

Duh.

If you don't think there was fraud, please explain why Trump reimbursed Cohen DOUBLE the $130k that Cohen paid Stormy.


SECTION 17-152
Conspiracy to promote or prevent election
Election (ELN) CHAPTER 17, ARTICLE 17, TITLE 1
§ 17-152. Conspiracy to promote or prevent election. Any two or more
persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to
a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by
one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
Maybe Cohen was extorting Trump, b/c Cohen was tappin' dem' bunz ;)
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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Re: JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

Post by a fan »

cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:09 am If these NYS politicians were aware of what scumbag Trump was why would they accept his money? A politician of character would tell trump to keep his money.
Giuliani was the biggest beneficiary of Trump's donations. That tell you what we're dealing with here?
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:09 am Then after accepting his money for decades they now opine what a dirtbag he always was
These aren't the same politicians. The prosecutor going after Trump in NY just took office in 2019. Long time NYC mayor Giuliani is long gone....

cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:09 am I'm assuming a Fan that you are leary about doing business with people of questionable character? A large # of NYS Democrats had no reservations about accepting Trump's money. Why was that? Easy answer Trump's money was green enough to allow them to look the other way. They even greased the skids for many of his real estate deals. They sure loved him before they hated him. :roll:
So did the Republicans who took his money, and now can't stand Trump. It's about grift and corruption. You're acting like you don't know why Dems would take money from Trump all these years. Simple: it's money. That's it.

Don't have to love a guy to take his money. The check simply has to clear, end of story.
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