MASS HS Lax

[Farfromgeneva]

The top down anti club stance at LS has accelerated their decline in the last few years. Many players either leave for private or quit club to the point now they have 1-2 on the entire team this year. Hard to compete with teams that have 10-20 kids that play competitive club events in summer and fall for years versus a couple HS summer events only. Those reps create a more skillful player over time.

I like Vonas approach. Wish more would side with him.

It's admirable but a little like trying to get people to keep riding horses after the invention of the automobile. Even the great town teams won't have the depth of talent of a top club. 3DNE has posted Instagram clips of their "training camp" this weekend, and they are absurdly high level.

Is that an improvement on society?

I get it though picking at the metaphor (guys twig and berries are far more comfortable not on a horse!) and could see this (and soccer too) cannabalizing and collapsing on itself over another generation. I see it down in Atlanta here. Youth rec league I started coaching in last year struggling to maintain or grow numbers. And you know there’s problems if they asked me to coach! But at my age the ones we’ve lost have crappy parents who don’t know anything about the game, are mostly pathetically un athletic and the genes don’t support the thesis they’re kid will ever see a scholly and are blind to reality.

Maybe it’ll come back around Vona isn’t that old.

[Wannaplay]

Like it or not things do change. Club sports are here and thriving. LS and Duxbury embraced them early on and reaped rewards. For what ever reason they seemed to have turned their backs on them while other programs have not. The results are in….some towns have continued to improve and others declined.
We can argue the societal benefits and morality of it all however the question asked was what has led to the decline of LS and Duxbury lacrosse. Both have the same coaches they have had for years and both have robust youth programs with plenty of funding.
If your players aren’t getting reps with top talent it will eventually show. It has taken some time for this to happen, at least with these two programs, and perhaps longer to recover as other programs have gone all in. Just my 2 cents.

I am curious about Dux’s decision to drop back to D2 and LS pulling out of the DCL.

[Superlite]

In New York State Chaminade and St. Anthony's play in their own end of year tournament (not the main State one) and in New Jersey Delbarton beat Seton Hall Prep (both large catholic schools) in the finals of the "private/prep division"..New Jersey then has a "Tournament of Champions" with the winners of each respective division..CT has Fairfield Prep and they do play in the top Class (FP has 800 enrollment)...

Yes, the Hingham v Franklin will be a good qtr final and so will AB v LS...Will be pulling for Frank in D1 after all they have been through, they do have the scoring and are strong at FO just not sure of the D end...I don't think Hingham nor LS is strong enough to knock off SJP or BCH this year but AB could do it and has already played BCH very closely earlier in the year...

[Laxboy78]

Duxbury is still playing! Talking about them like they lost in the first round! In d2 they have a chance every year. Don’t have to play huge Catholics. The days of small publics winning d1 championships are over.

[Wannaplay]

I posted earlier Dux has a good shot at the D2 title. They just are not the same program relative to others that they were a decade ago. They chose then to play up in D1 and dominated. What happened? Did they slip or did others improve? There will always be a strong culture and long legacy of lacrosse in certain towns but the days of Dux and LS running the table (D1) year after year are gone, at least for now. It is too hard to compete with the Catholics and we are seeing a rotation of what were always good programs into elite public programs. It’s fun to watch but some of the playing fields are not level.

[Laxxal22]

I'm a touch cynical but I also didn't/don't see the LS approach as entirely altruistic. There are other programs that have great culture and tradition but don't feel the need to discourage club play. You don't need to be in full control of every kid who picks up a lacrosse stick in your town.

I do think a change towards the LI Catholic or NJ non-public titles make sense. You still maintain traditional rivalries by playing the public school powers during the regular season, but then your postseason is more apples to apples.

[pcowlax]

In New York State Chaminade and St. Anthony's play in their own end of year tournament (not the main State one) and in New Jersey Delbarton beat Seton Hall Prep (both large catholic schools) in the finals of the "private/prep division"..New Jersey then has a "Tournament of Champions" with the winners of each respective division..CT has Fairfield Prep and they do play in the top Class (FP has 800 enrollment)...

Yes, the Hingham v Franklin will be a good qtr final and so will AB v LS...Will be pulling for Frank in D1 after all they have been through, they do have the scoring and are strong at FO just not sure of the D end...I don't think Hingham nor LS is strong enough to knock off SJP or BCH this year but AB could do it and has already played BCH very closely earlier in the year...

The NY Catholic tourney is really a tourney in name only, divided by school size, in the large class the "tourney" has been just St. A vs Chaminade again and this year they didn't even do that. For all intents and purposes, there isn't a tourney for them. NJ has done away with the TOC (damn shame). However, the state's coaches have put together something that is in practice similar so there still will a chance for the various state winners to play and have an ultimate champ (which is usually a private but not always). In CT, Catholic schools play in public leagues, not so for all the other privates. In lax, there is only one real one of note (not the case in other sports, especially basketball) and that is Fairfield Prep. They are always good but rarely actually win states so there is not the pushback that there is (and perhaps will continue to grow) in MA, where it seems that SJP and BCH are just going to dominate without an end in sight. It makes a situation like NY really, where it really isn't right to include them but they can't really have their own "tournament" because there aren't enough competitive teams. Tough situation.

[Kismet]

In New York State Chaminade and St. Anthony's play in their own end of year tournament (not the main State one) and in New Jersey Delbarton beat Seton Hall Prep (both large catholic schools) in the finals of the "private/prep division"..New Jersey then has a "Tournament of Champions" with the winners of each respective division..CT has Fairfield Prep and they do play in the top Class (FP has 800 enrollment)...

Yes, the Hingham v Franklin will be a good qtr final and so will AB v LS...Will be pulling for Frank in D1 after all they have been through, they do have the scoring and are strong at FO just not sure of the D end...I don't think Hingham nor LS is strong enough to knock off SJP or BCH this year but AB could do it and has already played BCH very closely earlier in the year...

The NY Catholic tourney is really a tourney in name only, divided by school size, in the large class the "tourney" has been just St. A vs Chaminade again and this year they didn't even do that. For all intents and purposes, there isn't a tourney for them. NJ has done away with the TOC (damn shame). However, the state's coaches have put together something that is in practice similar so there still will a chance for the various state winners to play and have an ultimate champ (which is usually a private but not always). In CT, Catholic schools play in public leagues, not so for all the other privates. In lax, there is only one real one of note (not the case in other sports, especially basketball) and that is Fairfield Prep. They are always good but rarely actually win states so there is not the pushback that there is (and perhaps will continue to grow) in MA, where it seems that SJP and BCH are just going to dominate without an end in sight. It makes a situation like NY really, where it really isn't right to include them but they can't really have their own "tournament" because there aren't enough competitive teams. Tough situation.

CHSAA in NY sued NYSPHSAA for inclusion in the state tournament a few years ago and lost.

Only recently has the relationship thawed to the point where top public and CHSAA schools actually play one another

[Farfromgeneva]

Like it or not things do change. Club sports are here and thriving. LS and Duxbury embraced them early on and reaped rewards. For what ever reason they seemed to have turned their backs on them while other programs have not. The results are in….some towns have continued to improve and others declined.
We can argue the societal benefits and morality of it all however the question asked was what has led to the decline of LS and Duxbury lacrosse. Both have the same coaches they have had for years and both have robust youth programs with plenty of funding.
If your players aren’t getting reps with top talent it will eventually show. It has taken some time for this to happen, at least with these two programs, and perhaps longer to recover as other programs have gone all in. Just my 2 cents.

I am curious about Dux’s decision to drop back to D2 and LS pulling out of the DCL.

This will never be a big business despite what some delusional fans on the D1 thread like to insist. We will see, as they say, life is Non linear

[Farfromgeneva]

I'm a touch cynical but I also didn't/don't see the LS approach as entirely altruistic. There are other programs that have great culture and tradition but don't feel the need to discourage club play. You don't need to be in full control of every kid who picks up a lacrosse stick in your town.

I do think a change towards the LI Catholic or NJ non-public titles make sense. You still maintain traditional rivalries by playing the public school powers during the regular season, but then your postseason is more apples to apples.

Think you are right, it builds it’s own unique brand but perception takes time to shift so let’s see after some period of latency how the results end up over 15-20yrs.

[MA Lax Fan]

I have always thought there would be an opportunity to build a top tier club program in Mass that is public school focused.

I’m a youth coach and I hate having a talented 7th grader who plays for 3D. It’s just a matter of time before some “fly by night” ISL assistant shows up at a 3D practice and convinces him to go on a school tour and the kids never looks back, as he dreams of re-classing and playing at Syracuse after HS.

If someone had the funding to build a top club program with the kids from Concord, AB, Dux, Hingham, Norwell, LS, etc…, backed it with legit coaching and kept the ISL out, I think town youth programs would push their kids in that direction.

We have to push against the status quo or public school lacrosse will continue to be stuck in a rut.

[MA Lax Fan]

Wow!! SJP vs BCH for the title game. Didn’t see that coming.

The chance of a town team winning a D1 title is very unlikely in the coming years.

[Wannaplay]

Agreed - but I think the AB BCH game may have been a different outcome if AB faired better at FO. I give them credit, they lost at least 80% of the draws but still kept it close. I guess we have mass on Saturday.

[Gorilla Fan]

Of course on the night the other divisions play their semifinals, storms rolling through from 6-8pm

[sjplax]

SJP on top again! Resilience and toughness. What a job Pynchon has done.

[Laxxal22]

Definite dynasty status for SJP and unfortunately early 1990s Buffalo Bills status for BCH. I'd love to see some games between these teams and top ISL teams next year. I'll continue to hope for a late April doubleheader charity event at BU or Harvard where SJP plays Belmont Hill and BCH plays Seb's.

Congrats to Reading, Norwell, and Cohasset as well. A great way for all of these boys to start their summers.

[MA Lax Fan]

Pynchon is a great guy and a great coach but there is no glory in winning over and over again when you are drawing players from 30 different towns and competing against one town.

I personally am more intrigued by the D2 tournament now. It’s just more interesting and up for grabs.

[sjplax]

SJP vs. Governor's, St. Seb's and Belmont Hill would all be interesting matchups. Even if it's just those 3

[NNELax]

SJP vs. Governor's, St. Seb's and Belmont Hill would all be interesting matchups. Even if it's just those 3

Add Pingree to that mix....Govs, Pingree and SJP should really have the Salem News Phil Stacey Cup...that would be AWESOME regional bragging rights...

[Laxxal22]

I'm not sure anyone totally bought that he would enroll there, but Henry Hasselbeck has officially decommitted from Maryland lacrosse and intends to pursue college football. Probably for the best. Juggling the two was probably keeping him from reaching his ceiling in either, and tbh even as a dmid MD seemed like a reach. He has offers from MSU, Arizona, BC (obviously) a bunch of Ivies and others. I'd be kind of stunned to see him suit up for the Hawks again next spring.

https://twitter.com/HenryHasselbeck/sta ... 0533662720

Update. MSU it is. https://twitter.com/HenryHasselbeck/sta ... 40994?s=20