All things CoronaVirus

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.

How many of your friends and family members have died of the Chinese Corona Virus?

0 people
43
63%
1 person.
10
15%
2 people.
3
4%
3 people.
5
7%
More.
7
10%
 
Total votes: 68

jhu72
Posts: 13925
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

wgdsr wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:10 pm agree testing's very valuable. has to help if followed properly.

haven't seen anything that has said we actually could be pushing much more or how valuable it would be if we could to date.

it wouldn't be wrong to suggest it hasn't been agenda item #1.

behavior... does a collective light switch go on for stuff/opportunities lost or is vaccine hail mary the play for many? we shall see.
The problem is, if you have so many cases, it is impossible to contact trace. It is a human resource intensive process. We, neither states, nor the feds bulked up on the tracers required. As we are currently configured, the numbers have got to be really low for tracing to be effective. I think this was Girior's point. At current levels, few states and certainly not the feds are prepared to deploy the required human resource.

I never understood why this was not seen to be a jobs program nationally. It was so obvious, but apparently not to the Trump admin. If they had started this kind of program day 1, we would be in much better shape today. They however were thinking short term, this was a blue state problem and was only going to last a few months.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
wgdsr
Posts: 9549
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by wgdsr »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:18 pm
wgdsr wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:10 pm agree testing's very valuable. has to help if followed properly.

haven't seen anything that has said we actually could be pushing much more or how valuable it would be if we could to date.

it wouldn't be wrong to suggest it hasn't been agenda item #1.

behavior... does a collective light switch go on for stuff/opportunities lost or is vaccine hail mary the play for many? we shall see.
The problem is, if you have so many cases, it is impossible to contact trace. It is a human resource intensive process. We, neither states, nor the feds bulked up on the tracers required. As we are currently configured, the numbers have got to be really low for tracing to be effective. I think this was Girior's point. At current levels, few states and certainly not the feds are prepared to deploy the required human resource.

I never understood why this was not seen to be a jobs program nationally. It was so obvious, but apparently not to the Trump admin.
no, feds didn't.
most if not all states had their chance.
cali was down to 2,500 plus.
lot of red states had the chance at very low numbers.
northeast states could be doing it now, maybe they're taking advantage of their 2nd opportunity.
jhu72
Posts: 13925
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

wgdsr wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:21 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:18 pm
wgdsr wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:10 pm agree testing's very valuable. has to help if followed properly.

haven't seen anything that has said we actually could be pushing much more or how valuable it would be if we could to date.

it wouldn't be wrong to suggest it hasn't been agenda item #1.

behavior... does a collective light switch go on for stuff/opportunities lost or is vaccine hail mary the play for many? we shall see.
The problem is, if you have so many cases, it is impossible to contact trace. It is a human resource intensive process. We, neither states, nor the feds bulked up on the tracers required. As we are currently configured, the numbers have got to be really low for tracing to be effective. I think this was Girior's point. At current levels, few states and certainly not the feds are prepared to deploy the required human resource.

I never understood why this was not seen to be a jobs program nationally. It was so obvious, but apparently not to the Trump admin.
no, feds didn't.
most if not all states had their chance.
cali was down to 2,500 plus.
lot of red states had the chance at very low numbers.
northeast states could be doing it now, maybe they're taking advantage of their 2nd opportunity.
I know NY is. Don't know of any others, for certain. I would suspect some are trying.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32269
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ma ... k-n1235652

The United States of America in 2020

Trump - Pence 2020

MAGA!
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
jhu72
Posts: 13925
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

… undoubtedly a democrat! :lol: :lol:
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
njbill
Posts: 6887
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:35 am

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by njbill »

ggait wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:03 pm Here's what Giroir said yesterday. I think he's totally right.

Testing is not our #1 issue right now. Testing is not how the Euros got their numbers under control. They've done fewer tests than us -- but no problems because they've NEEDED fewer tests than us. Testing matters the most BEFORE the break out (February) or AFTER the fire is contained (hopefully September). Testing does not put out the forest fire.

So, you know, there's no black or white answer here, but in the very early parts of an outbreak or in the very late waning parts, or in selective times like a meat packing, contact tracing could be very effective. When you have a widespread, multi-focal outbreak, where many people are asymptomatic, testing and tracing are of limited utility versus public health policy measures like mask wearing, like closing indoor crowded spaces. So, yes, contact tracing is important, but it's much less important right now than the public policy mitigation measures. Once the virus gets down to very low levels again, then testing and contact tracing become much more important. Where we are right now with the widespread, multi-focal, across many states, just like many other countries, the solution was the mitigation steps, not the contact tracing.
I read his comments to be focused on testing AND contact tracing, that is, doing the two together. I agree with him that once all of the horses are out of the barn, as is the case now, contact tracing is a waste of time. I don’t read his remarks, however, to say we shouldn’t be testing.

I agree testing is not THE most important solution to the problem now. And I agree that the European countries that have been successful did not get there through testing but rather through behavior modification.

But we have to throw everything we have at this virus. That includes testing. And behavior modification of course. Since we in this country are so pathetically bad at behavior modification, we have to continue to fire any and all arrows we have in our quiver. Including testing.

Testing gives us information. We test our air. We test our water. We can and should test ourselves to find out who has the virus. I think it is infinitely easier to get someone to quarantine who has tested positive than it is to get the general populace to social distance, wear masks, and not engage in knuckleheaded behavior.

Hopefully one of the first things Biden will do if he is elected is really, really ramp up testing.
kramerica.inc
Posts: 6230
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by kramerica.inc »

How do you ramp-up testing?
Many states had test centers set up months ago and couldn't get people to come through the front door.
wgdsr
Posts: 9549
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by wgdsr »

not sure if anybody saw this come up recently:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 04384.html

here is the brazil lab mentioned for the science geeks out there:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 5.220806v3
njbill
Posts: 6887
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:35 am

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by njbill »

kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:56 pm How do you ramp-up testing?
Many states had test centers set up months ago and couldn't get people to come through the front door.
What states are you referring to? That certainly wasn’t the case in New Jersey. Don’t think it was the case in Pennsylvania or New York either.

If there were some centers that didn’t get much traffic, I wonder if that was because in many places you needed a doctor’s note or symptoms. I’m advocating a “no reason” test.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32269
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

wgdsr wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:13 pm not sure if anybody saw this come up recently:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 04384.html

here is the brazil lab mentioned for the science geeks out there:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 5.220806v3
Looks promising. A good therapeutic is key.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
jhu72
Posts: 13925
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

njbill wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:35 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:56 pm How do you ramp-up testing?
Many states had test centers set up months ago and couldn't get people to come through the front door.
What states are you referring to? That certainly wasn’t the case in New Jersey. Don’t think it was the case in Pennsylvania or New York either.

If there were some centers that didn’t get much traffic, I wonder if that was because in many places you needed a doctor’s note or symptoms. I’m advocating a “no reason” test.
… same in Maryland initially. Now the requirements for getting tested are much looser. There are HMOs which are providing testing in house, using their own lab facilities, no wait for either the test or the result.

Testing for purposes of tracing is different than just regular testing. For tracing you have a target for testing in mind (multiple perhaps). The testing we are doing now is to determine the initial infectee, so you can then do trace testing. The problem is there are too many initial infectees at this time and in lots of the country it takes too long to return results.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
User avatar
holmes435
Posts: 2357
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:57 am

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by holmes435 »

New Evidence Suggests Young Children Spread Covid-19 More Efficiently Than Adults

Unsurprising that little germ reservoirs that roll around in the dirt, lick toys and cough and sneeze all over each other are disease vectors. We normally let our kids roam pretty wild with the neighbors and our dogs to build their immunity in normal times. It's going to be interesting to see virus numbers 2-3 weeks after schools open up. Hopefully it won't be too bad.
jhu72
Posts: 13925
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:42 pm
wgdsr wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:13 pm not sure if anybody saw this come up recently:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 04384.html

here is the brazil lab mentioned for the science geeks out there:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 5.220806v3
Looks promising. A good therapeutic is key.
… interesting, but seems limited to only the most ill of the ill. We will see.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25945
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

wgdsr wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:14 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:10 am Maryland, thank goodness, is recognizing that, though we're in better shape than many states, we nevertheless have more virus in the community than we did in March and a new crushing outbreak is but weeks away if we don't double down on the vigilance.
maryland looks like there could be quite a bit less virus in the state now vs late march. they got hit pretty good. depends on a lot of factors but unless their fatality jumps 3 or 4 fold in the next 3+ weeks it'd point to their numbers being down.

tough to tell what's around the coast and getting pulled for numbers out of state for all the beach states in the summer. and they are on a trajectory they'd probably like to flatten if it isn't all test availability or tracing lately.
That's not necessarily correct, though of course we don't know for sure because testing was so slow at that point. But what they're saying is that the virus is actually more prevalent, but we're doing better in the most vulnerable environments eg PPE in nursing homes etc and we're doing better in our treatment protocols, but bottomline it only takes a couple of weeks for this thing to explode rampantly if people alter their behaviors the wrong direction.
calourie
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:52 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by calourie »

Peter Brown wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:15 pm
CU77 wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:54 pm
Two teenagers in Florida have died from Covid-19 complications, according to data posted by the Florida Department of Health. The teens were between the ages of 14 and 17, the department said.
That's unpossible. PB has assured us that covid only affects old people, especially in Florida.


I’m tempted to belittle you, because you likely deserve it as I don’t think your motives here are genuine. But I’ll refrain. Let me instead ask you this:

Do you know how many kids die from the flu in America every year?

How about, do you know many kids die in automobile accidents every year in the US?

Do you kvetch about the flu when it kills hundreds of kids every year? Do you demand that kids not ride in automobiles when thousands die annually? If not and based on your Covid fear porn, WHY NOT?!?!!
Your's is an apples to oranges comparison, PB. The problem with Covid, as is pointed out ad infinitum by people like Fauci is it is so transmissible (unlike the common flu as well well as auto accidents however that relates). So with the common flu we can let it run its' course each year and between 20,000-80,000 people will die in our country, hospitals are equipped to handle the level of surge, and many people either exercise their option of getting vaccinated, or don't get the disease to begin with. Were we to treat Covid as we do the flu, as you suggest we should, 100's of millions of us would contract the disease in a short period of time, and the vulnerable would flood the treatment centers to the point of overwhelming both the facilities and workers as happened in the northeast. Its' not about the kids, its' about the nature of the disease. Even with many taking precautions we are apt to lose upwards of 300,000 to Covid by the new year. Age isn't the issue, the volume is. Hopefully we don't see a surge in automotive deaths from our current 55,000/year or so to the 300,000 or so that Corona will already be contributing if we let Covid sweep through the population as you propose, or we are doomed. My last sentence is tongue in cheek in an effort to make my point understandable to you. We won't likely add 300,000 automotive deaths because people take the threat of dying in a car crash seriously fo both themselves and others, in other words they obey basic laws and act with a sufficient amount of common sense to not make that happen. Hopefully we will do that with Covid as well.
Last edited by calourie on Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ggait
Posts: 4092
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by ggait »

I read his comments to be focused on testing AND contact tracing, that is, doing the two together. I agree with him that once all of the horses are out of the barn, as is the case now, contact tracing is a waste of time. I don’t read his remarks, however, to say we shouldn’t be testing.
Bill -- I know you disagree, but Giroir is super clear that testing is not the primary thing right now. Seems to think the "testing testing testing" mantra is actually getting in the way of more important things.

Opening statement to Congress the other day: "We cannot test our way out of this or any other pandemic."

Masks, no bars, no restaurants, no crowds. Personal responsibility. That is how Europe (doing much fewer tests than us) got its numbers down and how we need to do it. And once your infections (test demand) goes down, then your testing capacity (test supply) is more adequate.

Our supply of testing is actually higher per capita than almost any other country. Problem is our demand for tests is out of control.

Masks masks masks >>>> testing testing testing
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
wgdsr
Posts: 9549
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by wgdsr »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:08 pm
wgdsr wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:14 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:10 am Maryland, thank goodness, is recognizing that, though we're in better shape than many states, we nevertheless have more virus in the community than we did in March and a new crushing outbreak is but weeks away if we don't double down on the vigilance.
maryland looks like there could be quite a bit less virus in the state now vs late march. they got hit pretty good. depends on a lot of factors but unless their fatality jumps 3 or 4 fold in the next 3+ weeks it'd point to their numbers being down.

tough to tell what's around the coast and getting pulled for numbers out of state for all the beach states in the summer. and they are on a trajectory they'd probably like to flatten if it isn't all test availability or tracing lately.
That's not necessarily correct, though of course we don't know for sure because testing was so slow at that point. But what they're saying is that the virus is actually more prevalent, but we're doing better in the most vulnerable environments eg PPE in nursing homes etc and we're doing better in our treatment protocols, but bottomline it only takes a couple of weeks for this thing to explode rampantly if people alter their behaviors the wrong direction.
who is "they"? maryland has been averaging ~10 deaths per day. from mid april to weeks later it was high 20s and then quickly into the 50s.

who is they saying they've got a virus more prevalent but they've reduced deaths by 80%? looks like they've almost got this thing licked.
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by Peter Brown »

Deaths per million:

New Jersey 1,792
New York 1,685
Belgium 849
England 680
Spain 608
Peru 594
Italy 582
Sweden 568
Chile 502
United States 478


Oh, Florida: 333.

What’s wrong with Democratic governors?!
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32269
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”