Census-WHY BOTHER

[runrussellrun]

Shirley, the Founding Fathers knew the population of their new country would increase. In fact, many of them paved the way for this increase by purchasing or conquering lands. (Jefferson/Louisanna Purchase )

They also understood the value of proportional Representation. Hence, why they added this at the very beginning of the US Constitution, including language of having a census every ten years: (the ONLY reason for the census )

The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative…”

— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 2, clause 3

But, since the 1929 Proportions Act, the number of US House of Reps. has been set at 435.

So, why bother doing the census if the number of Representatives does NOT fit with the US Constitutional guidelines?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Shirley, the Founding Fathers knew the population of their new country would increase. In fact, many of them paved the way for this increase by purchasing or conquering lands. (Jefferson/Louisanna Purchase )

They also understood the value of proportional Representation. Hence, why they added this at the very beginning of the US Constitution, including language of having a census every ten years: (the ONLY reason for the census )

The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative…”

— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 2, clause 3

But, since the 1929 Proportions Act, the number of US House of Reps. has been set at 435.

So, why bother doing the census if the number of Representatives does NOT fit with the US Constitutional guidelines?

Is 1 for 30 higher or lower than 1 for 50?

[MDlaxfan76]

Shirley, the Founding Fathers knew the population of their new country would increase. In fact, many of them paved the way for this increase by purchasing or conquering lands. (Jefferson/Louisanna Purchase )

They also understood the value of proportional Representation. Hence, why they added this at the very beginning of the US Constitution, including language of having a census every ten years: (the ONLY reason for the census )

The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative…”

— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 2, clause 3

But, since the 1929 Proportions Act, the number of US House of Reps. has been set at 435.

So, why bother doing the census if the number of Representatives does NOT fit with the US Constitutional guidelines?

Is 1 for 30 higher or lower than 1 for 50?

RR refuses to understand this simple math. Downright strange.

[foreverlax]

American Community Survey and 2020 Census.

"ACS and the 2020 Census

What is the difference between the American Community Survey and the 2020 Census?
The American Community Survey (ACS) is conducted every year to provide up-to-date information about the social and economic needs of your community. The ACS shows how people live--our education, housing, jobs and more. For example, results may be used to decide where new schools, hospitals, and emergency services are needed.

The census is conducted once every 10 years to provide an official count of the entire U.S. population to Congress.

Do I have to answer both the American Community Survey and the 2020 Census?
Yes, if your household was selected for the American Community Survey, you must complete it in addition to the 2020 Census. Your response to both is important and required by law (Title 13, U.S. Code). Your responses will also help provide local and national leaders with the information they need for planning and for programs.

Why can't you use my census answers for the American Community Survey?
The American Community Survey includes questions that will not be asked the 2020 Census, and the two serve different purposes.

Your answers are confidential.
Every Census Bureau employee takes a lifetime oath to protect your personal identification. Disclosing ANY information that could identify you or your family means 5 years in prison, or $250,000 in fines, or both."

[MDlaxfan76]

American Community Survey and 2020 Census.

"ACS and the 2020 Census

What is the difference between the American Community Survey and the 2020 Census?
The American Community Survey (ACS) is conducted every year to provide up-to-date information about the social and economic needs of your community. The ACS shows how people live--our education, housing, jobs and more. For example, results may be used to decide where new schools, hospitals, and emergency services are needed.

The census is conducted once every 10 years to provide an official count of the entire U.S. population to Congress.

Do I have to answer both the American Community Survey and the 2020 Census?
Yes, if your household was selected for the American Community Survey, you must complete it in addition to the 2020 Census. Your response to both is important and required by law (Title 13, U.S. Code). Your responses will also help provide local and national leaders with the information they need for planning and for programs.

Why can't you use my census answers for the American Community Survey?
The American Community Survey includes questions that will not be asked the 2020 Census, and the two serve different purposes.

Your answers are confidential.
Every Census Bureau employee takes a lifetime oath to protect your personal identification. Disclosing ANY information that could identify you or your family means 5 years in prison, or $250,000 in fines, or both."

Yup, the census is a count of all PERSONS, not citizens. Counting everyone is important.
Undercounting is the issue.

The citizenship question and all sorts of other questions can be asked to get a deeper picture of the population. It's not necessary to count everyone, just a statistically valid sample.

[runrussellrun]

American Community Survey and 2020 Census.

"ACS and the 2020 Census

What is the difference between the American Community Survey and the 2020 Census?
The American Community Survey (ACS) is conducted every year to provide up-to-date information about the social and economic needs of your community. The ACS shows how people live--our education, housing, jobs and more. For example, results may be used to decide where new schools, hospitals, and emergency services are needed.

The census is conducted once every 10 years to provide an official count of the entire U.S. population to Congress.

Do I have to answer both the American Community Survey and the 2020 Census?
Yes, if your household was selected for the American Community Survey, you must complete it in addition to the 2020 Census. Your response to both is important and required by law (Title 13, U.S. Code). Your responses will also help provide local and national leaders with the information they need for planning and for programs.

Why can't you use my census answers for the American Community Survey?
The American Community Survey includes questions that will not be asked the 2020 Census, and the two serve different purposes.

Your answers are confidential.
Every Census Bureau employee takes a lifetime oath to protect your personal identification. Disclosing ANY information that could identify you or your family means 5 years in prison, or $250,000 in fines, or both."

Yup, the census is a count of all PERSONS, not citizens. Counting everyone is important.
Undercounting is the issue.

The citizenship question and all sorts of other questions can be asked to get a deeper picture of the population. It's not necessary to count everyone, just a statistically valid sample.

So, help a guy out. WHY is counting important? (please, do NOT make this topic about tRump )

[runrussellrun]

Shirley, the Founding Fathers knew the population of their new country would increase. In fact, many of them paved the way for this increase by purchasing or conquering lands. (Jefferson/Louisanna Purchase )

They also understood the value of proportional Representation. Hence, why they added this at the very beginning of the US Constitution, including language of having a census every ten years: (the ONLY reason for the census )

The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative…”

— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 2, clause 3

But, since the 1929 Proportions Act, the number of US House of Reps. has been set at 435.

So, why bother doing the census if the number of Representatives does NOT fit with the US Constitutional guidelines?

Is 1 for 30 higher or lower than 1 for 50?

RR refuses to understand this simple math. Downright strange.

What math am I refusing to understand?

"taxation without representation !" Downright strange that story teller MDlax doesn't understand it.

[foreverlax]

American Community Survey and 2020 Census.

"ACS and the 2020 Census

What is the difference between the American Community Survey and the 2020 Census?
The American Community Survey (ACS) is conducted every year to provide up-to-date information about the social and economic needs of your community. The ACS shows how people live--our education, housing, jobs and more. For example, results may be used to decide where new schools, hospitals, and emergency services are needed.

The census is conducted once every 10 years to provide an official count of the entire U.S. population to Congress.

Do I have to answer both the American Community Survey and the 2020 Census?
Yes, if your household was selected for the American Community Survey, you must complete it in addition to the 2020 Census. Your response to both is important and required by law (Title 13, U.S. Code). Your responses will also help provide local and national leaders with the information they need for planning and for programs.

Why can't you use my census answers for the American Community Survey?
The American Community Survey includes questions that will not be asked the 2020 Census, and the two serve different purposes.

Your answers are confidential.
Every Census Bureau employee takes a lifetime oath to protect your personal identification. Disclosing ANY information that could identify you or your family means 5 years in prison, or $250,000 in fines, or both."

Yup, the census is a count of all PERSONS, not citizens. Counting everyone is important.
Undercounting is the issue.

The citizenship question and all sorts of other questions can be asked to get a deeper picture of the population. It's not necessary to count everyone, just a statistically valid sample.

So, help a guy out. WHY is counting important? (please, do NOT make this topic about tRump )

[runrussellrun]

Forever, not understanding your continual push of this issue. The ACS and the decadal census are different species.

(and, I am VERY sure that the ACS information is secure. Not like China can hack our government. )

[ABV 8.3%]

Interesting topic.

https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democ ... 140918.pdf

The mismanagement of the contract has jeopardized the 2010 Census and will result in major
cost increases to be borne by the taxpayer. In testimony last week, Commerce Secretary
Gutierrez announced that the Census Bureau would revert back to paper and pencil to
conduct non-response follow-up, rather than using the handhelds designed by Harris. He
estimated that the life-cycle cost of the 2010 Decennial Census will increase by between $2.2
and $3 billion, due in large part to the mismanagement of the FDCA contract. This will bring the
total lifecycle cost of the 2010 Census to between $13.7 and $14.5 billion.

Did the Florida based Harris Corp. get the contract again? Or is it L3Harris (LHX on NYSE )

Donor information reveals nothing shocking: Equal split between political "parties"

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toprec ... cycle=2016

[foreverlax]

Forever, not understanding your continual push of this issue. The ACS and the decadal census are different species.

(and, I am VERY sure that the ACS information is secure. Not like China can hack our government. )

What am I pushing?

[runrussellrun]

Forever, not understanding your continual push of this issue. The ACS and the decadal census are different species.

(and, I am VERY sure that the ACS information is secure. Not like China can hack our government. )

What am I pushing?

You posted ACS info....twice.

It has nothing to do with counting people for the number of Reps. we have.

Pretend CONservatives should be all over this issue. Especially since the ONLY states that have tRump hugely increased it US Representative numbers are populated by "illegals" (remember, it's winner take all for Presidential Electoral college votes aint it )

In most of our lifetime (1950 and on ) .....
INCREASES
California has gone from 30 to 53
Texas has gone from 22 to 36
Florida has gone from 8 to 27
VA has gone up one
Washington has gone from 7 to 10
Arizona gone from 2 to 9.

Other states have gone up too, but not many more. Or by much.

DECREASES (that are substantial )

New York : From 43 to 27
Massachusettes: From 14 to 9 (ok, NOT substantial in our lifetime, but my state)
Ohio : from 24 to 16
Pennsylvania : from 30 to 18
Thrilla- nois (IL) : from 25 to 18


Besides the obvious, (corporations, Non-profits, etc. paying for access) what benefit do the US populace gain for keeping only 435 Representatives?

(remember, big difference between governance and government )

[HooDat]

Well the biggest advantage to less reps is cost

[foreverlax]

Forever, not understanding your continual push of this issue. The ACS and the decadal census are different species.

(and, I am VERY sure that the ACS information is secure. Not like China can hack our government. )

What am I pushing?

You posted ACS info....twice. you have lost me...no shock. I posted one link regarding ACS and am pushing nothing.

It has nothing to do with counting people for the number of Reps. we have. Did I suggest differently? This is your hot button

Pretend CONservatives should be all over this issue. Especially since the ONLY states that have tRump hugely increased it US Representative numbers are populated by "illegals" (remember, it's winner take all for Presidential Electoral college votes aint it )

In most of our lifetime (1950 and on ) .....
INCREASES
California has gone from 30 to 53
Texas has gone from 22 to 36
Florida has gone from 8 to 27
VA has gone up one
Washington has gone from 7 to 10
Arizona gone from 2 to 9.

Other states have gone up too, but not many more. Or by much.

DECREASES (that are substantial )

New York : From 43 to 27
Massachusettes: From 14 to 9 (ok, NOT substantial in our lifetime, but my state)
Ohio : from 24 to 16
Pennsylvania : from 30 to 18
Thrilla- nois (IL) : from 25 to 18


Besides the obvious, (corporations, Non-profits, etc. paying for access) what benefit do the US populace gain for keeping only 435 Representatives?

(remember, big difference between governance and government )

[MDlaxfan76]

Shirley, the Founding Fathers knew the population of their new country would increase. In fact, many of them paved the way for this increase by purchasing or conquering lands. (Jefferson/Louisanna Purchase )

They also understood the value of proportional Representation. Hence, why they added this at the very beginning of the US Constitution, including language of having a census every ten years: (the ONLY reason for the census )

The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative…”

— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 2, clause 3

But, since the 1929 Proportions Act, the number of US House of Reps. has been set at 435.

So, why bother doing the census if the number of Representatives does NOT fit with the US Constitutional guidelines?

Is 1 for 30 higher or lower than 1 for 50?

RR refuses to understand this simple math. Downright strange.

What math am I refusing to understand?

"taxation without representation !" Downright strange that story teller MDlax doesn't understand it.

So simple that it’s ridiculous to have to keep repeating what TLD once again made clear.

1 rep per 30,000 is greater than (exceeds) 1 rep per 50,000, which exceeds 1 per million and so on. Conversely, 1 per 20,000 would not be acceptable under the Constitution.

The only exceptions to the rule were states that did not have enough population to meet those thresholds and needed at least some representation nevertheless.

I don’t know why you keep trying to make the rather dumb argument that 435 is not fully Constitutional, but you do.

Perfectly fine to think we would somehow have better Congressional decisions if there were more Reps but that would not be on the basis of the Constitution.

Go ahead and come up with a hypothesis as to the benefit. The known downside would be cost, staff, space etc.

Other downsides might be that it would be unwieldy, but that’s hypothetical.

Maybe we should also have 10 times as many Senators. How about 10 Presidents?

[runrussellrun]

Dartmouth Lax of MD,
Regarding US Congressional districts:

1. why did the number increase, proportionally, throughout US History? Up until the 1920's, if NOT mandated by the US Constitution?

2. The conversation regarding electoral colleges is directly related to whom our President is, based on districts.

3. Do we need to spend billions for information we already have? (do you get a census from Ball-moore county of the state of Terrapin? )

4. As a business owner, would you rather take 2-3 potential clients every month, or 2000-3000? (open secrets and spending on lobbying/campaign contributions. THought this was obvious ) We currently have the latter. Oh, I forgot, YOU know your congress person by name. We all do!

So many other reasons.

https://thirty-thousand.org/index.htm

[runrussellrun]

Well the biggest advantage to less reps is cost

Just NOT true.

Unless, of course, you are talking about lobbying and donations.

Other observant minds understand the context of the period in which the 435 became the law. The demographics and political movements of the early 19th century. Pesky women wanting to vote. SOcialists. Beer hall organizational meeting quashed because of the ban on booze, anarchist immigrants , etc. etc.

Remember, this 435 legislation occurred around what other pertinent legislation affecting the banking/corporate world? Yes, the 1 %'s took the anti trust medicine like the fine christians that they were.

[foreverlax]

Dartmouth Lax of MD,
Regarding US Congressional districts:

1. why did the number increase, proportionally, throughout US History? Up until the 1920's, if NOT mandated by the US Constitution?

2. The conversation regarding electoral colleges is directly related to whom our President is, based on districts.

3. Do we need to spend billions for information we already have? (do you get a census from Ball-moore county of the state of Terrapin? )

4. As a business owner, would you rather take 2-3 potential clients every month, or 2000-3000? (open secrets and spending on lobbying/campaign contributions. THought this was obvious ) We currently have the latter. Oh, I forgot, YOU know your congress person by name. We all do!

So many other reasons.

https://thirty-thousand.org/index.htm

FYI

The UK has 66 million with 650 in the House of Commons...or 1 per 100k.

What's the number supposed to be?

[runrussellrun]

I don’t know why you keep trying to make the rather dumb argument that 435 is not fully Constitutional, but you do.

Yeah, I should fill up this website with thousands upon thousands of posts about tRump. Silly me.

Perfectly fine to think we would somehow have better Congressional decisions if there were more Reps but that would not be on the basis of the Constitution.

100 million more people, and you're fine with the same number of life jackets. OK
Go ahead and come up with a hypothesis as to the benefit. The known downside would be cost, staff, space etc.

What space? With four thousand US House of Reps, with a budget of $500k, is only $2 billion. (you wouldn't need a large staff )

How in the world does big business (traded public companies ) ever get things done, what with all those stock owners. Bring out the dancin proxies.

[MDlaxfan76]

Dartmouth Lax of MD,
Regarding US Congressional districts:

1. why did the number increase, proportionally, throughout US History? Up until the 1920's, if NOT mandated by the US Constitution?

2. The conversation regarding electoral colleges is directly related to whom our President is, based on districts.

3. Do we need to spend billions for information we already have? (do you get a census from Ball-moore county of the state of Terrapin? )

4. As a business owner, would you rather take 2-3 potential clients every month, or 2000-3000? (open secrets and spending on lobbying/campaign contributions. THought this was obvious ) We currently have the latter. Oh, I forgot, YOU know your congress person by name. We all do!

So many other reasons.

https://thirty-thousand.org/index.htm

Ok, Fatty,
At least you’re somewhat trying to make the hypothesis that more Reps would make for better government.

But your link makes all sorts of unsubstantiated claims. Right off the top that the intention of the founders was that the number of constituents would not exceed 60k per Rep. nope, not found in the Constitution. If that was the intent they certainly could have said so. But they did not.

Of course, the founders also didn’t intend for women much less freed slaves to vote, but they did (sort of) want them to be ‘represented ‘ and counted as Persons. Those slave holding states otherwise at too great of a disadvantage.

I just don’t see the hypothesis that lots more Reps would result in better legislation or oversight having much basis.

Fair to make the argument but I think issues like gerrymandering, the picking of ones voters instead of voters picking their Reps, is much more on point.