Patriot League 2020

[HopFan16]

It's actually insulting to Pat Spencer (and Stover) to just expect Loyola to immediately pick up the pieces and be even better without them. Those are monumental losses. It takes time. No one is outright dismissing them (what would FanLax be without some good old fashioned straw men arguments?) but it's a lot more illogical to project a substantial improvement, as one certain poster has done here ad nauseam. For what it's worth, I still think they'll end up winning the Patriot League.

Lehigh will win a lot of faceoffs but unclear if it can do much with them—#47 in offense last year. They had a top 10 defense, but losing Chick really hurts.

Navy should be better under Amplo, but it might take a year or two of culture building before they're truly ready to compete for the league title again.

Army is Army—they'll have a solid D, even without Surdick and Barretto. But they don't win faceoffs, and I'm not sure there's enough firepower around Nichtern for them to repeat as tourney champs.

Had BU kept Gray, they'd be a factor again, but now losing him and Burr simultaneously is rough. They might drop down to the second/third tier, but Polley should have them back towards the top soon, provided he remains the coach.

So, yeah, I'll go with Loyola again, but it'll be close. I think they're lucky in that many of the other competitive teams in the conference also lost a lot to graduation.

2020 will take a couple lumps and growing pains to gel and hopefully, can recreate a similar level of success that they had in 2019. I think what loyola can do with what they have is just rebuild around the pieces they lost. We're not a school like UVA, Maryland, Hopkins who can experience success because they reload with the guys they have on the bench, or the guys they bring in to recruit. (Hello Hopkins's 2020 and 2021 classes)

Army has more then enought fire power around Nichtern

Ok we get it you have a son on the team but scoring goals has not been a strength for Army recently and last year was no exception. 42nd in the country in goals per game and they haven't been inside the top 30 in offensive efficiency since 2016. They especially struggled to score against good teams, failing to get to 10 against Syracuse, Loyola (twice), Lehigh (once), and Penn. And now they lose their second leading scorer Nate Jones, who, by the way, had a hat trick against Penn while Nichtern went 0 and 0.

[Lenwood117]

It's actually insulting to Pat Spencer (and Stover) to just expect Loyola to immediately pick up the pieces and be even better without them. Those are monumental losses. It takes time. No one is outright dismissing them (what would FanLax be without some good old fashioned straw men arguments?) but it's a lot more illogical to project a substantial improvement, as one certain poster has done here ad nauseam. For what it's worth, I still think they'll end up winning the Patriot League.

Lehigh will win a lot of faceoffs but unclear if it can do much with them—#47 in offense last year. They had a top 10 defense, but losing Chick really hurts.

Navy should be better under Amplo, but it might take a year or two of culture building before they're truly ready to compete for the league title again.

Army is Army—they'll have a solid D, even without Surdick and Barretto. But they don't win faceoffs, and I'm not sure there's enough firepower around Nichtern for them to repeat as tourney champs.

Had BU kept Gray, they'd be a factor again, but now losing him and Burr simultaneously is rough. They might drop down to the second/third tier, but Polley should have them back towards the top soon, provided he remains the coach.

So, yeah, I'll go with Loyola again, but it'll be close. I think they're lucky in that many of the other competitive teams in the conference also lost a lot to graduation.

2020 will take a couple lumps and growing pains to gel and hopefully, can recreate a similar level of success that they had in 2019. I think what loyola can do with what they have is just rebuild around the pieces they lost. We're not a school like UVA, Maryland, Hopkins who can experience success because they reload with the guys they have on the bench, or the guys they bring in to recruit. (Hello Hopkins's 2020 and 2021 classes)

Army has more then enought fire power around Nichtern

Ok we get it you have a son on the team but scoring goals has not been a strength for Army recently and last year was no exception. 42nd in the country in goals per game and they haven't been inside the top 30 in offensive efficiency since 2016. They especially struggled to score against good teams, failing to get to 10 against Syracuse, Loyola (twice), Lehigh (once), and Penn. And now they lose their second leading scorer Nate Jones, who, by the way, had a hat trick against Penn while Nichtern went 0 and 0.

11 to 7 final hello

[kramerica.inc]

Who will be scoring Army’s goals?

[Peter Brown]

Loyola has not Run the PL since 2014. I do not see it happening this year. The league is better top to bottom this year, then it was in 2014.

Loyola is 33-6 with 4 regular season and 3 PL Tournament titles in the last 4 years. They haven't run the table but they have run the league in the sense that they've been completely dominant. Spencer was a major reason for that, but they've got other talent and I think that will show this year.

Excellent post.

Btw, ask Charlie what he thinks of this year's team... I'm trying to help you good folks out. The Hounds should be significantly better than last year's squad, as heretical as that may sound.

Our one and only open question spot is goalie; I'm hopeful that one of the two contenders figures out how to be a D1 goalie within the first 4 quarters of the season. Other than goalie, our team is much improved across the board, and in some areas, comically improved. You will soon see what I'm saying.

Yes, this does indeed seem difficult to believe.
If I'm not mistaken, Loyola lost 336 points of 385 scored last year to graduation or transfer, right?
Two of the three attack, including Tewey winner, top midfielder and 3 of the next 4 scoring middies.

I don't know the team's bench that well, but golly, better than last year sure sounds like a bridge too far...for 2020.

As I have said (ad nauseum), you shall soon see.

I can write it a hundred times, but until the boys prove on the field what I am saying, it's all kinda useless to discuss. The Hound will be much improved this year at every position except goalie. They're already showing that in practice and Fall ball.

[Peter Brown]

It's actually insulting to Pat Spencer (and Stover) to just expect Loyola to immediately pick up the pieces and be even better without them. Those are monumental losses. It takes time.

What's insulting is being cocksure commenting about a team and league when you don't follow them...just a waste of time reading the rest.

Because Hopkins is regrettably close in jurisdiction to the cradle of lacrosse at Ridley, I do spend some time looking at the Jays, who will also be much improved this year. We shall beat the Jays as we always do, but the Jays will at least be somewhat athletic this year, for once. No more 7.0-40 yd turtles manning the middle of the field for the Jays; same caustic coach with no ability to change an offensive scheme once in their normal resting spot, deep in the hole, but at least the Jays will topple Mt. St., Mary's.

HopFan16 also thought Lamar Jackson wasn't good enough to be an NFL qb.

[smoova]

The Hound will be much improved this year at every position except goalie.

I love Fanlax.

[HCBosfan]

Saw the preseason, preseason All Patriot league lead by 4 Lehigh, 3 Loyola, 2Army and HC, Bucknell, Colgate for some sprinkles. Petite is in here so they are expecting big things from him. I just dont know about Navy, I am sure they will compete better than they are ranked, but the last couple of seasons they just fell off. The fogo position was hard.

Loyola
Army
Lehigh
BU
Holycross
Navy
Bucknell
Colgate
Lafayette

I like this
Lehigh
Loyola
Bucknell
Army
Holy Cross
BU
Navy
Colgate
Lafayette

[crusader66]

Still think HC should be considered a stronger threat within Patriot League.

During regular season last year:

Lost by 1 to Army
Within 1 to Loyola late in 3rd qtr and lost by 4
Beat Lehigh, Colgate, Lafayette and Navy and returned almost the entire team. Plus top 10 fogo in country.

[HCBosfan]

66, I was would agree, I just was not that brave. They did have 3 guys that were Patriot league 2nd team all league that are returning. The first team attack was loaded so these were the next group which were voted by the coaches. So that should give us an idea on what to expect, especially on what the coaches say. True, HC did put up 15 points against Loyola, actually that was a pretty good game. Was hard to listen to the announcers though.

[TheBigIguana]

Still think HC should be considered a stronger threat within Patriot League.

During regular season last year:

Lost by 1 to Army
Within 1 to Loyola late in 3rd qtr and lost by 4
Beat Lehigh, Colgate, Lafayette and Navy and returned almost the entire team. Plus top 10 fogo in country.

They're more of a threat than they have been. Saying they'll be a big threat still feels bold even if it isn't as far fetched as it has been.

[crusader66]

I said they should be a "stronger threat" than getting credit for. Not that they are a "Big threat". Time will tell but the program continues to improve year over year.

[MDlaxfan76]

The Hound will be much improved this year at every position except goalie.

I love Fanlax.

[MDlaxfan76]

Loyola has not Run the PL since 2014. I do not see it happening this year. The league is better top to bottom this year, then it was in 2014.

Loyola is 33-6 with 4 regular season and 3 PL Tournament titles in the last 4 years. They haven't run the table but they have run the league in the sense that they've been completely dominant. Spencer was a major reason for that, but they've got other talent and I think that will show this year.

Excellent post.

Btw, ask Charlie what he thinks of this year's team... I'm trying to help you good folks out. The Hounds should be significantly better than last year's squad, as heretical as that may sound.

Our one and only open question spot is goalie; I'm hopeful that one of the two contenders figures out how to be a D1 goalie within the first 4 quarters of the season. Other than goalie, our team is much improved across the board, and in some areas, comically improved. You will soon see what I'm saying.

Yes, this does indeed seem difficult to believe.
If I'm not mistaken, Loyola lost 336 points of 385 scored last year to graduation or transfer, right?
Two of the three attack, including Tewey winner, top midfielder and 3 of the next 4 scoring middies.

I don't know the team's bench that well, but golly, better than last year sure sounds like a bridge too far...for 2020.

As I have said (ad nauseum), you shall soon see.

I can write it a hundred times, but until the boys prove on the field what I am saying, it's all kinda useless to discuss. The Hound will be much improved this year at every position except goalie. They're already showing that in practice and Fall ball.

Yup, we are just shaking our heads at the ridiculousness of suggesting that losing nearly 60% of scoring, including a generational level player and an AA goalie will result in an actually better team.

Likewise the assertion that other than goalie every position will be improved, including by definition Spencer’s position.

I’m a Charlie Toomey fan, so I’m puzzled by whether you are saying Toomey had the wrong guys on the field last year or perhaps that the freshmen are actually better (already) than the grads plus transfer? Really???

Details please.

[TheBigIguana]

Loyola has not Run the PL since 2014. I do not see it happening this year. The league is better top to bottom this year, then it was in 2014.

Loyola is 33-6 with 4 regular season and 3 PL Tournament titles in the last 4 years. They haven't run the table but they have run the league in the sense that they've been completely dominant. Spencer was a major reason for that, but they've got other talent and I think that will show this year.

Excellent post.

Btw, ask Charlie what he thinks of this year's team... I'm trying to help you good folks out. The Hounds should be significantly better than last year's squad, as heretical as that may sound.

Our one and only open question spot is goalie; I'm hopeful that one of the two contenders figures out how to be a D1 goalie within the first 4 quarters of the season. Other than goalie, our team is much improved across the board, and in some areas, comically improved. You will soon see what I'm saying.

Yes, this does indeed seem difficult to believe.
If I'm not mistaken, Loyola lost 336 points of 385 scored last year to graduation or transfer, right?
Two of the three attack, including Tewey winner, top midfielder and 3 of the next 4 scoring middies.

I don't know the team's bench that well, but golly, better than last year sure sounds like a bridge too far...for 2020.

As I have said (ad nauseum), you shall soon see.

I can write it a hundred times, but until the boys prove on the field what I am saying, it's all kinda useless to discuss. The Hound will be much improved this year at every position except goalie. They're already showing that in practice and Fall ball.

Yup, we are just shaking our heads at the ridiculousness of suggesting that losing nearly 60% of scoring, including a generational level player and an AA goalie will result in an actually better team.

Likewise the assertion that other than goalie every position will be improved, including by definition Spencer’s position.

I’m a Charlie Toomey fan, so I’m puzzled by whether you are saying Toomey had the wrong guys on the field last year or perhaps that the freshmen are actually better (already) than the grads plus transfer? Really???

Details please.

To give a more reasoned take I'll say Loyola might not be as good as last year but I also don't think they'll drop way off. Last year they were easily a top 8 team, this team might be 9-12 instead.

The biggest thing is going to be growth on the backend. They struggled a lot on defense at times last year but everyone comes back so in theory they should cover teams better. But then you obviously have to question whether they'll get the stops to make that matter. If they do, and not even at the level Stover was but like 52-54%, they'll be better on defense.

Which makes the challenge not falling off a cliff on offense. I don't think they will. Lindley will still get his, Olmstead is a natural ball carrier and Swindell is a athletic problem for teams. If they can find a few other contributors they'll be right there in the tournament again.

The one major problem, which was also a big issue in 2017 and left Loyola needing to win the PL to make the tournament, is the tough games are all early and if they don't figure it out quick they'll be left with no strong wins for an at large. But I think they will figure it out by April/May.

[houndace1]

Loyola has not Run the PL since 2014. I do not see it happening this year. The league is better top to bottom this year, then it was in 2014.

Loyola is 33-6 with 4 regular season and 3 PL Tournament titles in the last 4 years. They haven't run the table but they have run the league in the sense that they've been completely dominant. Spencer was a major reason for that, but they've got other talent and I think that will show this year.

Excellent post.

Btw, ask Charlie what he thinks of this year's team... I'm trying to help you good folks out. The Hounds should be significantly better than last year's squad, as heretical as that may sound.

Our one and only open question spot is goalie; I'm hopeful that one of the two contenders figures out how to be a D1 goalie within the first 4 quarters of the season. Other than goalie, our team is much improved across the board, and in some areas, comically improved. You will soon see what I'm saying.

Yes, this does indeed seem difficult to believe.
If I'm not mistaken, Loyola lost 336 points of 385 scored last year to graduation or transfer, right?
Two of the three attack, including Tewey winner, top midfielder and 3 of the next 4 scoring middies.

I don't know the team's bench that well, but golly, better than last year sure sounds like a bridge too far...for 2020.

As I have said (ad nauseum), you shall soon see.

I can write it a hundred times, but until the boys prove on the field what I am saying, it's all kinda useless to discuss. The Hound will be much improved this year at every position except goalie. They're already showing that in practice and Fall ball.

Yup, we are just shaking our heads at the ridiculousness of suggesting that losing nearly 60% of scoring, including a generational level player and an AA goalie will result in an actually better team.

Likewise the assertion that other than goalie every position will be improved, including by definition Spencer’s position.

I’m a Charlie Toomey fan, so I’m puzzled by whether you are saying Toomey had the wrong guys on the field last year or perhaps that the freshmen are actually better (already) than the grads plus transfer? Really???

Details please.

To give a more reasoned take I'll say Loyola might not be as good as last year but I also don't think they'll drop way off. Last year they were easily a top 8 team, this team might be 9-12 instead.

The biggest thing is going to be growth on the backend. They struggled a lot on defense at times last year but everyone comes back so in theory they should cover teams better. But then you obviously have to question whether they'll get the stops to make that matter. If they do, and not even at the level Stover was but like 52-54%, they'll be better on defense.

Which makes the challenge not falling off a cliff on offense. I don't think they will. Lindley will still get his, Olmstead is a natural ball carrier and Swindell is a athletic problem for teams. If they can find a few other contributors they'll be right there in the tournament again.

The one major problem, which was also a big issue in 2017 and left Loyola needing to win the PL to make the tournament, is the tough games are all early and if they don't figure it out quick they'll be left with no strong wins for an at large. But I think they will figure it out by April/May.

The team that year gave me absolute fits. Pre season Top 5 ranking. i personally believe there wasn't a great deal of senior leadership and maturity for that team due to the amount of seniors that were served game suspensions/benching throughout the year. They had all the pieces coming back on both sides of the ball, along with two stellar freshman defensemen. They could not close out games that were winnable i.e UVA and Hopkins. Their only chance that year was the PL and thankfully they won it.

[MDlaxfan76]

Loyola has not Run the PL since 2014. I do not see it happening this year. The league is better top to bottom this year, then it was in 2014.

Loyola is 33-6 with 4 regular season and 3 PL Tournament titles in the last 4 years. They haven't run the table but they have run the league in the sense that they've been completely dominant. Spencer was a major reason for that, but they've got other talent and I think that will show this year.

Excellent post.

Btw, ask Charlie what he thinks of this year's team... I'm trying to help you good folks out. The Hounds should be significantly better than last year's squad, as heretical as that may sound.

Our one and only open question spot is goalie; I'm hopeful that one of the two contenders figures out how to be a D1 goalie within the first 4 quarters of the season. Other than goalie, our team is much improved across the board, and in some areas, comically improved. You will soon see what I'm saying.

Yes, this does indeed seem difficult to believe.
If I'm not mistaken, Loyola lost 336 points of 385 scored last year to graduation or transfer, right?
Two of the three attack, including Tewey winner, top midfielder and 3 of the next 4 scoring middies.

I don't know the team's bench that well, but golly, better than last year sure sounds like a bridge too far...for 2020.

As I have said (ad nauseum), you shall soon see.

I can write it a hundred times, but until the boys prove on the field what I am saying, it's all kinda useless to discuss. The Hound will be much improved this year at every position except goalie. They're already showing that in practice and Fall ball.

Yup, we are just shaking our heads at the ridiculousness of suggesting that losing nearly 60% of scoring, including a generational level player and an AA goalie will result in an actually better team.

Likewise the assertion that other than goalie every position will be improved, including by definition Spencer’s position.

I’m a Charlie Toomey fan, so I’m puzzled by whether you are saying Toomey had the wrong guys on the field last year or perhaps that the freshmen are actually better (already) than the grads plus transfer? Really???

Details please.

To give a more reasoned take I'll say Loyola might not be as good as last year but I also don't think they'll drop way off. Last year they were easily a top 8 team, this team might be 9-12 instead.

The biggest thing is going to be growth on the backend. They struggled a lot on defense at times last year but everyone comes back so in theory they should cover teams better. But then you obviously have to question whether they'll get the stops to make that matter. If they do, and not even at the level Stover was but like 52-54%, they'll be better on defense.

Which makes the challenge not falling off a cliff on offense. I don't think they will. Lindley will still get his, Olmstead is a natural ball carrier and Swindell is a athletic problem for teams. If they can find a few other contributors they'll be right there in the tournament again.

The one major problem, which was also a big issue in 2017 and left Loyola needing to win the PL to make the tournament, is the tough games are all early and if they don't figure it out quick they'll be left with no strong wins for an at large. But I think they will figure it out by April/May.

And indeed that's a fair set of aspirations and rationale.
I like the way the Loyola program has been built, and my son had some excellent experiences working for Charlie coaching tenders.
And it's in my backyard, so I'm a fan.

[Peter Brown]

The team that year gave me absolute fits. Pre season Top 5 ranking. i personally believe there wasn't a great deal of senior leadership and maturity for that team due to the amount of seniors that were served game suspensions/benching throughout the year. They had all the pieces coming back on both sides of the ball, along with two stellar freshman defensemen. They could not close out games that were winnable i.e UVA and Hopkins. Their only chance that year was the PL and thankfully they won it.

A+ reply.

When people don't follow the Hounds, they assume losing Pat and Stover is 'the end'. Remove Scanlan from the mix, and whoa katy bar the door!

I wrote here last year that Scanlan leaving was both a good thing and not unexpected. I also wrote how good the incoming FOGO Pacheco was, plus the incoming frosh attack. And of course we got guys missing last year on defense back 100% healthy. Fall ball proved everything I said and then some. Loyola should be preseason ranked #1. When we smoke UVA, please come back here to apologize to the Hounds faithful. I will have the receipts.

Smart guys like MDLax just can not fathom a truism that's clear as day in every aspect of life but mostly in sports: The Whole is Greater than the Sum of its Parts. Aristotle knew about this year's Hounds' squad and last years's, and he could just as accurately predict this year's squad will be significantly better than last year's...as sure as gravity.

As the uninformed focus on the red shiny parts which they both love and are blinded by, you are missing why we were not good last year and why we will be great this year. TEAM: together, everyone achieves more. Try it.

[Drcthru]

[Lenwood117]

Who will be scoring Army’s goals?

They have at least 15 studs that can score

[laxxygilmore]

Who will be scoring Army’s goals?

They have at least 15 studs that can score

Navy has at least 16 studs that can score.