Yale 2020

[calourie]

Pacific Coast Shootout game versus Michigan looks like it will be streamed by TVXsportsvideo on YouTube. TVXsportsvideo is a west coast sports promoter. Googling their site directs you to the YouTube stream. I suspect Yale will come out loaded for bear after their first half UMass train wreck. Time for the Bulldogs to round into form. Only eight more days until face off against a very very good Cornell team in Ithica.

[calourie]

Video access to the Michigan game now up on the Yale Lacrosse site:

https://yalebulldogs.com/sports/mens-lacrosse/schedule

[calourie]

Workmanlike 17-11 win over Michigan tonight. Wolverines spotted Yale a 6-1 first quarter lead, but managed to battle back much of the game until TD's overwhelming 24-2 or so dominance at the X allowed the Bulldogs to pull away to a six goal win at the end. Michigan has some decent talent particularly at the offensive end which kept the outcome more in doubt than I expected. Yale attack was reassuringly impressive, led by Gaudet's 7gs 1a performance, including some shots that previously might have been out of his range. Kyle Zawadski surprised with a pair of goals at very opportune moments, and Bragg and Cropp each registerd goals with an outside rocket, but developing a greater breadth of scoring would still be on my wish list. Haven't seen a stat sheet yet, but it seemed Yale showed some improvement in the turnover and clearing areas. D still doesn't seem as coherent and swarming and TO causing as I think they can become, but they did seem to show some improvement in being ready to slide. Starr held his own stopping about 50% of the shots he saw, but he made some uncharacteristically impatient long off the mark clearing pass. All in all a decent effort that likely will need to be built upon to come out with a win when facing a well oiled offensive juggernaut up in Ithica next weekend.

[laxfan1313]

While some people think faceoff dominance isn't crucial to victory, noting Cornell's victory over Ohio State, what it does is tire out a defense with constant pressure. Hopefully the Big Red can win 40% of the faceoffs next weekend to give its defense a break & use long possessions, taking into account TD's brilliance, to keep the defense fresh. In last night's game, I recall the announcers saying the first 9 Yale goals were by attackmen. Based upon the final box score, that was true of at least 13 of the 17 goals. If that occurs at Schoellkopf Field, Cornell will have a better chance to defense the Elis. It's all about Ivy League games. Here we go! Best of luck to Yale after next Saturday.

[FannOLax]

During last night's Michigan game, TD broke Baptiste's career record for face-off wins. Congratulations to TD. The box score puts last night's attendance at 6,530, which is very good for a March lacrosse game. Nice to get back to winning ways heading into conference play.

[DMac]

Face off wins is not crucial to victory. Yes, the Cornell-OSU game is a good example, and if I am remembering correctly, a couple years back UA (with TD) completely dominated Cornell at the face off X (by a ridiculous number) at Schoellkopf, but Cornell won the game. Sure a face off win gives a team possession, but what they do with that possession is the crucial part. See the 2012 Loyola Greyhounds, and that's just one example of many. Face off stats are very deceiving yet many will claim (stats people) face offs wins games!!!!!! No they don't.

[RedIvy]

Face off wins is not crucial to victory. Yes, the Cornell-OSU game is a good example, and if I am remembering correctly, a couple years back UA (with TD) completely dominated Cornell at the face off X (by a ridiculous number) at Schoellkopf, but Cornell won the game. Sure a face off win gives a team possession, but what they do with that possession is the crucial part. See the 2012 Loyola Greyhounds, and that's just one example of many. Face off stats are very deceiving yet many will claim (stats people) face offs wins games!!!!!! No they don't.

I think Cornell only beat TD once and that was in NYC in the Ivy League championships in 2018. While it’s not impossible to win while being dominated at FO (as has been proven), IMO it’s foolish not to acknowledge how important this role is when building a team. Not impossible to win championships but absolutely a giant advantage or disadvantage that then needs to be over compensated for in other parts of the game, it will highly likely catch up to you. Would Yale have played on Memorial Day without TD last year? Clearly no one can answer that but in my opinion the answer is highly unlikely. No discredit to a great overall Yale team with great coaching, but TD is litterly a game changer.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Yale is the only team to beat Penn State in the last two seasons. The reason is TD at FO. All other things equal or close to equal this IMO was the difference.

My guess is this is where the exceptions get quoted.... like the person who smoked 3 packs a day their whole life and lived to 100.... (foolish logic IMO).....

[Typical Lax Dad]

Loyola was 51% in faceoffs for the 2012 year and that includes winning just a handful in the final 4. Dominated Denver in the quarter final. Great defensive midfield that enabled Loyola to overcome a deficit. Maryland played slow so the disadvantage wasn’t that impactful. I don’t know a single coach that’s believes facing off is irrelevant. Of course you can overcome it, but having a dominant faceoff guy is a +.

[Young Warrior]

Last night’s game was a 2 goal game early/mid 4th and TD had won pretty much every FO. He clearly was THE biggest difference maker. A great Fogo isn’t the be all end all but gets you so many extra possessions, kills opponent momentum etc.
It matters.

[The Orfling]

Stayed up late to watch the game but probably didn't have the greatest attention span. Happy for the "W" but three things concerned me:

1. The clear game -- 10 for 15 is rough. I was hoping that with the more experienced goalie back in with #23 returning, the clear game would improve but it made things a lot closer than they had to be. It looked like maybe #23 was pressing, trying to go for the "home run" long clear.

2. Would have liked to see the save percentage over 50% (it was just under).

3. Sustained focus -- Yale came out fast and got up to a 6-1 league but that 5-goal league vanished all too easily.

Still, a win's a win! And congrats to Gaudet on his 7-goal effort. Looking forward to the start of Ivy play next week.

[DMac]

Loyola was 51% in faceoffs for the 2012 year and that includes winning just a handful in the final 4. Dominated Denver in the quarter final. Great defensive midfield that enabled Loyola to overcome a deficit. Maryland played slow so the disadvantage wasn’t that impactful. I don’t know a single coach that’s believes facing off is irrelevant. Of course you can overcome it, but having a dominant faceoff guy is a +.

Have never said that face offs are irrelevant, have only ever said they are overrated....big difference there. Of course I recognize that winning the face off is better than losing it, but every phase of the game plays a big role in winning or losing. Typically the better (complete) team is going to win, not necessarily the team with the best FOGO. TD and Baptise are phenominal, between the two of them in seven years of D1 lacrosse they have one title, and that's with three different teams. In the '09 NC game, the losing team won the face off in OT, the CTO by the winning team rendered the face off useless (I've also seen the FOGO pick up the ball and make a beeline to the goal and win it in OT on NC day). Face offs are one part of the game, very nice to win them but they don't mean much if the rest of your team can't cash in on them.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Loyola was 51% in faceoffs for the 2012 year and that includes winning just a handful in the final 4. Dominated Denver in the quarter final. Great defensive midfield that enabled Loyola to overcome a deficit. Maryland played slow so the disadvantage wasn’t that impactful. I don’t know a single coach that’s believes facing off is irrelevant. Of course you can overcome it, but having a dominant faceoff guy is a +.

Have never said that face offs are irrelevant, have only ever said they are overrated....big difference there. Of course I recognize that winning the face off is better than losing it, but every phase of the game plays a big role in winning or losing. Typically the better (complete) team is going to win, not necessarily the team with the best FOGO. TD and Baptise are phenominal, between the two of them in seven years of D1 lacrosse they have one title, and that's with three different teams. In the '09 NC game, the losing team won the face off in OT, the CTO by the winning team rendered the face off useless (I've also seen the FOGO pick up the ball and make a beeline to the goal and win it in OT on NC day). Face offs are one part of the game, very nice to win them but they don't mean much if the rest of your team can't cash in on them.

You can overcome a goalie not saving at a 50% rate too. Nobody would say, having a good goalie is overrated.

[DMac]

All phases of the game matter (25 TOs by OSU matters every bit as much as their 30 face off wins v Cornell), the face off is just one part of the game. Complete teams wins games.

[Typical Lax Dad]

All phases of the game matter (25 TOs by OSU matters every bit as much as their 30 face off wins v Cornell), the face off is just one part of the game. Complete teams wins games.

Yes. But a FOGO and Goalie are more important than your 3rd attackman and 2nd SSDM. Over a long season, hard to be competitive if you are deficient in the goal and at faceoffs. Yes you can overcome it. Did Ben Williams’ fading late in the season make it easier for Syracuse to win?

[DMac]

Cuse made it to Memorial Day in '13 with a team whose biggest weakness was face offs (got beat by Duke). Ben entered the next year, but they never made it back to Memorial Day. I just don't see face offs as as big of a deal as most others do, have seen way too many games on both the wlax and mlax side where the team who won the battle at the X lost the game. I get it, they matter but they're not the end all.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Cuse made it to Memorial Day in '13 with a team whose biggest weakness was face offs (got beat by Duke). Ben entered the next year, but they never made it back to Memorial Day. I just don't see face offs as as big of a deal as most others do, have seen way too many games on both the wlax and mlax side where the team who won the battle at the X lost the game. I get it, they matter but they're not the end all.

Maybe if a Ben is there in '13 they win.

[DMac]

Yup...and maybe not.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yup...and maybe not.

It takes more than a FOGO to win. But all things being equal, it's better to have a dominant face-off guy on the team instead of being deficient....all things being equal.

[calourie]

All phases of the game matter (25 TOs by OSU matters every bit as much as their 30 face off wins v Cornell), the face off is just one part of the game. Complete teams wins games.

Unresolvable discussion. Would simply add that as a rule complete teams win games but in any given game a massive differential in any aspect (FOs, Saves, GBs, Scoring efficiency to name a few) can tilt that game in favor of the less complete team. This being the Yale thread I would point out that I think the Bulldogs can at times be over reliant on TD's prowess. I think this tendency showed up in all three games with Penn last year as well as in their championship matchup against UVA. It wasn't necessarily that Yale didn't or doesn't have the horses to be a complete team, but TD's dominance often mitigates the consequences of the players not being fully committed to being so. Just as defenses with a brick wall of a goalie can often be lulled into riskier slides and doubles, players on teams with lopsided strengths (i.e. Penn State's offense last year) often gravitate towards tendencies and adjustments that feature those strengths regardless of a coaching staffs desire to be more fundamentally sound and well rounded. I think Yale's over-reliance on TD grayed Shay's hair a bit last year, and he and his assistants look to still have some work to do in that regard this one.

[DMac]

No disagreement with any of that.