USILA All-Americans

[oldskoollax]

Everyone has their personal opinion on who should be 1st team All-Americans. It is always difficult for those players who are not at one of the top programs to get the recognition they deserve. One example is Craig Chick, Lehigh, who was a 2nd team All-American. Based on his career numbers should he be a 1st Team AA? If he has a different name on his jersey would he be a 1st team AA? Add in that he has played both LSM and close D and consistently posted similar CT and GB numbers each year. Chick broke the NCAA record for Caused Turnovers this season! Compare his stats to anyone on the 1st team.

This was discussed similarly in the D3 forums for AA. Defense is completely different than offense when it comes to statistics. Statistics do not directly reflect a player's performance. Yes, Chick was a takeaway machine. However, would you really rather have him than Surdick, Giles Harris, Raaphorst, or Sabia? In my opinion, no. All the first teamer's are (for the most part) lockdown defenders, he is more of an LSM than anything. Nothing against Chick, he is an exceptional player, but I don't believe a first teamer.

If I had to pick the top 3 defenders, it would be Surdick, Giles Harris, and Raaphorst. Raaphorst was the only person I saw all year that could handle Pat Spencer, as he is much stronger than Spencer is. Surdick is the best all around, rangy and athletic. Giles Harris is simply a fantastic athlete and will probably be the top defender next year.

So I guess you're saying that people scored at will on Chick? Or LSMs are not good defenders? I suggest you watch some games and see how many teams stayed away from Chick. Everyone has their opinion but if Duke has two 1st team AA "lock down" defenders how does anyone score on them? How does High Point attack unit put up the points they did? Caused turnovers as a stat has no value? What's the value of a defender that can play on ball, off ball and direct the entire defense as well as play LSM?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Everyone has their personal opinion on who should be 1st team All-Americans. It is always difficult for those players who are not at one of the top programs to get the recognition they deserve. One example is Craig Chick, Lehigh, who was a 2nd team All-American. Based on his career numbers should he be a 1st Team AA? If he has a different name on his jersey would he be a 1st team AA? Add in that he has played both LSM and close D and consistently posted similar CT and GB numbers each year. Chick broke the NCAA record for Caused Turnovers this season! Compare his stats to anyone on the 1st team.

This was discussed similarly in the D3 forums for AA. Defense is completely different than offense when it comes to statistics. Statistics do not directly reflect a player's performance. Yes, Chick was a takeaway machine. However, would you really rather have him than Surdick, Giles Harris, Raaphorst, or Sabia? In my opinion, no. All the first teamer's are (for the most part) lockdown defenders, he is more of an LSM than anything. Nothing against Chick, he is an exceptional player, but I don't believe a first teamer.

If I had to pick the top 3 defenders, it would be Surdick, Giles Harris, and Raaphorst. Raaphorst was the only person I saw all year that could handle Pat Spencer, as he is much stronger than Spencer is. Surdick is the best all around, rangy and athletic. Giles Harris is simply a fantastic athlete and will probably be the top defender next year.

So I guess you're saying that people scored at will on Chick? Or LSMs are not good defenders? I suggest you watch some games and see how many teams stayed away from Chick. Everyone has their opinion but if Duke has two 1st team AA "lock down" defenders how does anyone score on them? How does High Point attack unit put up the points they did? Caused turnovers as a stat has no value? What's the value of a defender that can play on ball, off ball and direct the entire defense as well as play LSM?

My son played against a Chick in college. He is the only defensive player he ever mentioned to me. I had never heard of him until then. Chick was a freshman. I paid attention to him afterwards. He is an outstanding player. If he played in the ACC/Big Ten he would have been well known. AA lists are hard and there is always room for debate but Chick is a bonafide AA.

[TheBigIguana]

All American teams should reflect how the game is currently played. So 3 attackmen, 3 Offensive Midfielders, 1 FOGO, 1 LSM, 2 SSDM, 3 Defenders and a goalie. Neither IL or USILA get it right imo. But the USILA one is just a complete mess.

How do you account for ties? Flip a coin?

It should have enough voters that ties are hard to get but obviously you would just add the person on. I mean this as a general structure for things that I think makes more sense than 4 attackmen and 2 goalies or whatever USILA has going on now.

[Typical Lax Dad]

All American teams should reflect how the game is currently played. So 3 attackmen, 3 Offensive Midfielders, 1 FOGO, 1 LSM, 2 SSDM, 3 Defenders and a goalie. Neither IL or USILA get it right imo. But the USILA one is just a complete mess.

How do you account for ties? Flip a coin?

It should have enough voters that ties are hard to get but obviously you would just add the person on. I mean this as a general structure for things that I think makes more sense than 4 attackmen and 2 goalies or whatever USILA has going on now.

I was talking to a buddy about this. Even with the extra guys, it’s much harder to make AA today versus 25 years ago. Always debateable. A lot of good players.

[oldskoollax]

Everyone has their personal opinion on who should be 1st team All-Americans. It is always difficult for those players who are not at one of the top programs to get the recognition they deserve. One example is Craig Chick, Lehigh, who was a 2nd team All-American. Based on his career numbers should he be a 1st Team AA? If he has a different name on his jersey would he be a 1st team AA? Add in that he has played both LSM and close D and consistently posted similar CT and GB numbers each year. Chick broke the NCAA record for Caused Turnovers this season! Compare his stats to anyone on the 1st team.

This was discussed similarly in the D3 forums for AA. Defense is completely different than offense when it comes to statistics. Statistics do not directly reflect a player's performance. Yes, Chick was a takeaway machine. However, would you really rather have him than Surdick, Giles Harris, Raaphorst, or Sabia? In my opinion, no. All the first teamer's are (for the most part) lockdown defenders, he is more of an LSM than anything. Nothing against Chick, he is an exceptional player, but I don't believe a first teamer.

If I had to pick the top 3 defenders, it would be Surdick, Giles Harris, and Raaphorst. Raaphorst was the only person I saw all year that could handle Pat Spencer, as he is much stronger than Spencer is. Surdick is the best all around, rangy and athletic. Giles Harris is simply a fantastic athlete and will probably be the top defender next year.

I would take Chick over Giles Harris, Raaphorst and Sabia. They are all good players but are one dimensional players. Chick has played every role a defenseman can play.

[PicLax]

I’m not sure any members of USILA or other ranking bodies read these forums, but I have two suggestions.
One, discontinue pre and mid-season AA predictions and rankings. Lacrosse is a team sport and individual recognition, particularly pre and mid season, is counter-productive to team development and play; pre-season predictions are based on groundless or previous season performance, which may not be applicable toward the current year; and the pre and mid season rankings tend to become self-fulfilling prophases that the ranking organizations feel compelled to carry into the final end-of-year rankings/AA selections. Let the season play out, then make selections based on the year-long body of work.
Two, when making end-of-year AA team selections, stick with the normal field of play composition: 3 attack, 3 offensive middies, 3 defenders, 2 SSDM, 1 LSM, 1 goalie and 1 FOGO.

[masslax1032]

Everyone has their personal opinion on who should be 1st team All-Americans. It is always difficult for those players who are not at one of the top programs to get the recognition they deserve. One example is Craig Chick, Lehigh, who was a 2nd team All-American. Based on his career numbers should he be a 1st Team AA? If he has a different name on his jersey would he be a 1st team AA? Add in that he has played both LSM and close D and consistently posted similar CT and GB numbers each year. Chick broke the NCAA record for Caused Turnovers this season! Compare his stats to anyone on the 1st team.

This was discussed similarly in the D3 forums for AA. Defense is completely different than offense when it comes to statistics. Statistics do not directly reflect a player's performance. Yes, Chick was a takeaway machine. However, would you really rather have him than Surdick, Giles Harris, Raaphorst, or Sabia? In my opinion, no. All the first teamer's are (for the most part) lockdown defenders, he is more of an LSM than anything. Nothing against Chick, he is an exceptional player, but I don't believe a first teamer.

If I had to pick the top 3 defenders, it would be Surdick, Giles Harris, and Raaphorst. Raaphorst was the only person I saw all year that could handle Pat Spencer, as he is much stronger than Spencer is. Surdick is the best all around, rangy and athletic. Giles Harris is simply a fantastic athlete and will probably be the top defender next year.

So I guess you're saying that people scored at will on Chick? Or LSMs are not good defenders? I suggest you watch some games and see how many teams stayed away from Chick. Everyone has their opinion but if Duke has two 1st team AA "lock down" defenders how does anyone score on them? How does High Point attack unit put up the points they did? Caused turnovers as a stat has no value? What's the value of a defender that can play on ball, off ball and direct the entire defense as well as play LSM?

Chick is a terrific player without a doubt. His caused turnover statistics are fantastic. Obviously LSM's can be great defenders. But from a defensive standpoint at close defense, I do not think there is anyone better than Surdick, Giles Harris, and Raaphorst. Surdick is without a doubt the best defensemen we had this year, no doubt. Giles Harris is the complete package on ball. And Raaphorst is the best off ball defender as well as strong enough to deal with bullish attackman. It is simply my opinion.

If I wanted the most complete defensive group, it would be those three. The value they bring by being able to match up with anyone, play off ball defense, and be physical is unmatched. Chick isn't even the best LSM in the country if he played so! Jared Connors is! He is extremely athletic and can match up with the best. That is my opinion. No disrespect to Chick.

[masslax1032]

Everyone has their personal opinion on who should be 1st team All-Americans. It is always difficult for those players who are not at one of the top programs to get the recognition they deserve. One example is Craig Chick, Lehigh, who was a 2nd team All-American. Based on his career numbers should he be a 1st Team AA? If he has a different name on his jersey would he be a 1st team AA? Add in that he has played both LSM and close D and consistently posted similar CT and GB numbers each year. Chick broke the NCAA record for Caused Turnovers this season! Compare his stats to anyone on the 1st team.

This was discussed similarly in the D3 forums for AA. Defense is completely different than offense when it comes to statistics. Statistics do not directly reflect a player's performance. Yes, Chick was a takeaway machine. However, would you really rather have him than Surdick, Giles Harris, Raaphorst, or Sabia? In my opinion, no. All the first teamer's are (for the most part) lockdown defenders, he is more of an LSM than anything. Nothing against Chick, he is an exceptional player, but I don't believe a first teamer.

If I had to pick the top 3 defenders, it would be Surdick, Giles Harris, and Raaphorst. Raaphorst was the only person I saw all year that could handle Pat Spencer, as he is much stronger than Spencer is. Surdick is the best all around, rangy and athletic. Giles Harris is simply a fantastic athlete and will probably be the top defender next year.

I would take Chick over Giles Harris, Raaphorst and Sabia. They are all good players but are one dimensional players. Chick has played every role a defenseman can play.

Chick would bring a great dimension of takeaways to any defense, but he cannot cover attackman who use their body well. He is fantastic with smaller players, but not so much with tough attackman. If you look at the greatest defensemen in the world, who are they? Matt Dunn and Tucker Durkin. Are they one dimensional? Yes, they are just extremely good at winning their matchups and locking down anyone. The argument of having more dimensions is not very valid for close defense.