2019 Tewaaraton Finalists

[rasheed]

It’s funny. I think if Sowers played the n the championship game, he’d take it over anyone. I actually think he’s the most skilled offensive player in the country. Just not much of a supporting cast.

[Mr3Putt]

Mellen was to small for Spencer. Does Penn St have someone who can play Spencer?

[seacoaster]

It’s funny. I think if Sowers played the n the championship game, he’d take it over anyone. I actually think he’s the most skilled offensive player in the country. Just not much of a supporting cast.

Agreed; he really is extraordinary. It's a pity we will likely never see him on a so-called big stage.

[Peter Brown]

It’s funny. I think if Sowers played the n the championship game, he’d take it over anyone. I actually think he’s the most skilled offensive player in the country. Just not much of a supporting cast.

It's hard to argue these points.

However, I'd say that among Spencer, Sowers, and Ament, Spencer alone imo has elevated his WHOLE team by also being an on-field coach (among other positives, he's also become a GB and CT machine); I'm not sure I'd say the same about Sowers. As for Ament, he's on a world-class team all around, so I'm even more reluctant to afford him the same compliment...I think almost any D1 attackman would thrive at PSU with that supporting cast.

[FannOLax]

...
However, I'd say that among Spencer, Sowers, and Ament, Spencer alone imo has elevated his WHOLE team by also being an on-field coach (among other positives, he's also become a GB and CT machine); I'm not sure I'd say the same about Sowers. As for Ament, he's on a world-class team all around, so I'm even more reluctant to afford him the same compliment...I think almost any D1 attackman would thrive at PSU with that supporting cast.

I dunknow, last year when Ament missed the season out injured, Penn State not only didn't make the NCAA tournament, it didn't make the Big 10 tournament. It seems to me that Ament has elevated his team and made a tremendous difference.

[Peter Brown]

...
However, I'd say that among Spencer, Sowers, and Ament, Spencer alone imo has elevated his WHOLE team by also being an on-field coach (among other positives, he's also become a GB and CT machine); I'm not sure I'd say the same about Sowers. As for Ament, he's on a world-class team all around, so I'm even more reluctant to afford him the same compliment...I think almost any D1 attackman would thrive at PSU with that supporting cast.

I dunknow, last year when Ament missed the season out injured, Penn State not only didn't make the NCAA tournament, it didn't make the Big 10 tournament. It seems to me that Ament has elevated his team and made a tremendous difference.

I agree he has, maybe we disagree in how crucial he (or any one player) has been to that W-L change. 2018's PSU lax team went 8-6 but missed going undefeated by a total of 11 goals in 14 games. 2 OT losses. Every single loss was tight. Call it a compliment; I just feel it's harder for any individual on PSU to be called 'irreplaceable', including Ament. Put another way, how much more do you suppose Spencer would light up the board if he was on PSU and had Arceri going for .650?

[xxxxxxx]

...
However, I'd say that among Spencer, Sowers, and Ament, Spencer alone imo has elevated his WHOLE team by also being an on-field coach (among other positives, he's also become a GB and CT machine); I'm not sure I'd say the same about Sowers. As for Ament, he's on a world-class team all around, so I'm even more reluctant to afford him the same compliment...I think almost any D1 attackman would thrive at PSU with that supporting cast.

I dunknow, last year when Ament missed the season out injured, Penn State not only didn't make the NCAA tournament, it didn't make the Big 10 tournament. It seems to me that Ament has elevated his team and made a tremendous difference.

I agree he has, maybe we disagree in how crucial he (or any one player) has been to that W-L change. 2018's PSU lax team went 8-6 but missed going undefeated by a total of 11 goals in 14 games. 2 OT losses. Every single loss was tight. Call it a compliment; I just feel it's harder for any individual on PSU to be called 'irreplaceable', including Ament. Put another way, how much more do you suppose Spencer would light up the board if he was on PSU and had Arceri going for .650?

Both are great but I agree that without Ament I don't see Penn State with one loss this year. He is the straw that stirs the drink. They are one of the most prolific offenses I can remember and he is the maestro. Arceri is at 63% and Savio 53% so we are not talking about a huge drop but more like a few possessions a game. 83 assists for Ament is crazy. Just one mans opinion but I think Ament is the best player in college lacrosse this year.

[foreverlax]

Spencer vs Ament

Ground balls - 36 vs 17
Turnovers - 32 vs 31
CTO - 8 vs1

Advantage Spencer

[10stone5]

...
However, I'd say that among Spencer, Sowers, and Ament, Spencer alone imo has elevated his WHOLE team by also being an on-field coach (among other positives, he's also become a GB and CT machine); I'm not sure I'd say the same about Sowers. As for Ament, he's on a world-class team all around, so I'm even more reluctant to afford him the same compliment...I think almost any D1 attackman would thrive at PSU with that supporting cast.

I dunknow, last year when Ament missed the season out injured, Penn State not only didn't make the NCAA tournament, it didn't make the Big 10 tournament. It seems to me that Ament has elevated his team and made a tremendous difference.

I agree he has, maybe we disagree in how crucial he (or any one player) has been to that W-L change. 2018's PSU lax team went 8-6 but missed going undefeated by a total of 11 goals in 14 games. 2 OT losses. Every single loss was tight. Call it a compliment; I just feel it's harder for any individual on PSU to be called 'irreplaceable', including Ament. Put another way, how much more do you suppose Spencer would light up the board if he was on PSU and had Arceri going for .650?

Both are great but I agree that without Ament I don't see Penn State with one loss this year.

He is the straw that stirs the drink.

Never quite understood that line —- as an aside.
But Reggie Jackson made it famous.

I guess that was something Reggie Jackson picked up in Cheltenham PA.

[New2lax]

...
However, I'd say that among Spencer, Sowers, and Ament, Spencer alone imo has elevated his WHOLE team by also being an on-field coach (among other positives, he's also become a GB and CT machine); I'm not sure I'd say the same about Sowers. As for Ament, he's on a world-class team all around, so I'm even more reluctant to afford him the same compliment...I think almost any D1 attackman would thrive at PSU with that supporting cast.

I dunknow, last year when Ament missed the season out injured, Penn State not only didn't make the NCAA tournament, it didn't make the Big 10 tournament. It seems to me that Ament has elevated his team and made a tremendous difference.

I agree he has, maybe we disagree in how crucial he (or any one player) has been to that W-L change. 2018's PSU lax team went 8-6 but missed going undefeated by a total of 11 goals in 14 games. 2 OT losses. Every single loss was tight. Call it a compliment; I just feel it's harder for any individual on PSU to be called 'irreplaceable', including Ament. Put another way, how much more do you suppose Spencer would light up the board if he was on PSU and had Arceri going for .650?

Both are great but I agree that without Ament I don't see Penn State with one loss this year. He is the straw that stirs the drink. They are one of the most prolific offenses I can remember and he is the maestro. Arceri is at 63% and Savio 53% so we are not talking about a huge drop but more like a few possessions a game. 83 assists for Ament is crazy. Just one mans opinion but I think Ament is the best player in college lacrosse this year.

I will add my 2 cents for what it is worth. I think Ament should be awarded the Top Attackman and Spencer awarded the Player of the Year. I believe that it is cut and dry and the way it will go...just sayin

[foreverlax]

...
However, I'd say that among Spencer, Sowers, and Ament, Spencer alone imo has elevated his WHOLE team by also being an on-field coach (among other positives, he's also become a GB and CT machine); I'm not sure I'd say the same about Sowers. As for Ament, he's on a world-class team all around, so I'm even more reluctant to afford him the same compliment...I think almost any D1 attackman would thrive at PSU with that supporting cast.

I dunknow, last year when Ament missed the season out injured, Penn State not only didn't make the NCAA tournament, it didn't make the Big 10 tournament. It seems to me that Ament has elevated his team and made a tremendous difference.

I agree he has, maybe we disagree in how crucial he (or any one player) has been to that W-L change. 2018's PSU lax team went 8-6 but missed going undefeated by a total of 11 goals in 14 games. 2 OT losses. Every single loss was tight. Call it a compliment; I just feel it's harder for any individual on PSU to be called 'irreplaceable', including Ament. Put another way, how much more do you suppose Spencer would light up the board if he was on PSU and had Arceri going for .650?

Both are great but I agree that without Ament I don't see Penn State with one loss this year. He is the straw that stirs the drink. They are one of the most prolific offenses I can remember and he is the maestro. Arceri is at 63% and Savio 53% so we are not talking about a huge drop but more like a few possessions a game. 83 assists for Ament is crazy. Just one mans opinion but I think Ament is the best player in college lacrosse this year.

+1
I will add my 2 cents for what it is worth. I think Ament should be awarded the Top Attackman and Spencer awarded the Player of the Year. I believe that it is cut and dry and the way it will go...just sayin

[random observer]

If Spencer is a coach on the field, how is the guy who is obliterating the single season assist mark not? Either way, the disrespect going towards Spencer's teammates on offense to prop him up is unreal. Lindley and Olmstead were top 30 overall recruits. Scanlan was a top 10 recruit (other than Mac O'Keefe, who on Penn State's offense was even a top 100 recruit?). They are not just products of Spencer. If O'Keefe helps Aiment's numbers, does Lindley not do the same for Spencer? Lindley is not a flashy player, but he is just about the best I've seen in a long time at working off-ball. He is tireless, and when he does get open, he gets the ball in and out of his stick in a flash.

And I love that we are spinning a 2018 PSU team that didn't make the B1G conference tournament into a team that was a few breaks from being unbeaten. Even if those close losses had flipped the other way, 2018 PSU still would not have been in the same league as 2019 PSU: this year's team isn't just winning pretty much every game, they are winning by wide margins. They are averaging 5 more goals per game than they did a year ago.

[Peter Brown]

If Spencer is a coach on the field, how is the guy who is obliterating the single season assist mark not? Either way, the disrespect going towards Spencer's teammates on offense to prop him up is unreal. Lindley and Olmstead were top 30 overall recruits. Scanlan was a top 10 recruit (other than Mac O'Keefe, who on Penn State's offense was even a top 100 recruit?). They are not just products of Spencer. If O'Keefe helps Aiment's numbers, does Lindley not do the same for Spencer? Lindley is not a flashy player, but he is just about the best I've seen in a long time at working off-ball. He is tireless, and when he does get open, he gets the ball in and out of his stick in a flash.

And I love that we are spinning a 2018 PSU team that didn't make the B1G conference tournament into a team that was a few breaks from being unbeaten. Even if those close losses had flipped the other way, 2018 PSU still would not have been in the same league as 2019 PSU: this year's team isn't just winning pretty much every game, they are winning by wide margins. They are averaging 5 more goals per game than they did a year ago.

I agree with your second paragraph.

Disagree partly with your first. Let me try another angle: all else being equal, if you switched Spencer and Ament (Spencer to PSU and Ament to Loyola), do you believe that PSU with Spencer would be worse/better or the same with him in place of Ament, and do you feel that Loyola with Ament would be worse/better or the same in place of Spencer?

(these are only hump-day hypotheticals...both players are amazing phenoms)

[New2lax]

If Spencer is a coach on the field, how is the guy who is obliterating the single season assist mark not? Either way, the disrespect going towards Spencer's teammates on offense to prop him up is unreal. Lindley and Olmstead were top 30 overall recruits. Scanlan was a top 10 recruit (other than Mac O'Keefe, who on Penn State's offense was even a top 100 recruit?). They are not just products of Spencer. If O'Keefe helps Aiment's numbers, does Lindley not do the same for Spencer? Lindley is not a flashy player, but he is just about the best I've seen in a long time at working off-ball. He is tireless, and when he does get open, he gets the ball in and out of his stick in a flash.

And I love that we are spinning a 2018 PSU team that didn't make the B1G conference tournament into a team that was a few breaks from being unbeaten. Even if those close losses had flipped the other way, 2018 PSU still would not have been in the same league as 2019 PSU: this year's team isn't just winning pretty much every game, they are winning by wide margins. They are averaging 5 more goals per game than they did a year ago.

I agree with your second paragraph.

Disagree partly with your first. Let me try another angle: all else being equal, if you switched Spencer and Ament (Spencer to PSU and Ament to Loyola), do you believe that PSU with Spencer would be worse/better or the same with him in place of Ament, and do you feel that Loyola with Ament would be worse/better or the same in place of Spencer?

(these are only hump-day hypotheticals...both players are amazing phenoms)

I know that all things ‘prior’ are not supposed to come into play when deciding this, but how can it not?? Spencer has been excelling and on the radar since taking his first steps onto the field at RAC. I know Ament was injured last year and that was a shame. However, he was not injured his Freshman or Sophomore years. Where were PSU and Ament those years? I’m simply saying that Spencer has been doing what he does for 4 years and with different teammates and 2 different offensive coaches. I’m simply saying that the Tewaaraton to me and others represents the Best College Lacrosse Player...and hands down it is Spencer

[OCanada]

Look at it another way. Where is LC w/o Spenser and PSU w/o Ament. IMO the loss devastates LC while Amebt hurts PSU but they are still a very good team

[palaxoff]

IMO I think the Ament / Spenser race is to close the call. My guess is the final factor is whoever is standing on the field late Monday afternoon on the 27th will be at the podium on the 30th.

Does anyone really understand the criteria for the award. Who gets to vote. Couldn't find anything on line.

[random observer]

If Spencer is a coach on the field, how is the guy who is obliterating the single season assist mark not? Either way, the disrespect going towards Spencer's teammates on offense to prop him up is unreal. Lindley and Olmstead were top 30 overall recruits. Scanlan was a top 10 recruit (other than Mac O'Keefe, who on Penn State's offense was even a top 100 recruit?). They are not just products of Spencer. If O'Keefe helps Aiment's numbers, does Lindley not do the same for Spencer? Lindley is not a flashy player, but he is just about the best I've seen in a long time at working off-ball. He is tireless, and when he does get open, he gets the ball in and out of his stick in a flash.

And I love that we are spinning a 2018 PSU team that didn't make the B1G conference tournament into a team that was a few breaks from being unbeaten. Even if those close losses had flipped the other way, 2018 PSU still would not have been in the same league as 2019 PSU: this year's team isn't just winning pretty much every game, they are winning by wide margins. They are averaging 5 more goals per game than they did a year ago.

I agree with your second paragraph.

Disagree partly with your first. Let me try another angle: all else being equal, if you switched Spencer and Ament (Spencer to PSU and Ament to Loyola), do you believe that PSU with Spencer would be worse/better or the same with him in place of Ament, and do you feel that Loyola with Ament would be worse/better or the same in place of Spencer?

(these are only hump-day hypotheticals...both players are amazing phenoms)

I think it's impossible to tell. Anybody who says with certainty that trading the two players makes one team better and the other worse is not talking from an objective or informed place IMO. If I'm choosing right now, I go Spencer, but it's on a razor's edge. Still, I don't like seeing his supporting cast disrespected when he's got elite teammates on offense that are arguably better than some of their PSU counterparts.

[random observer]

Look at it another way. Where is LC w/o Spenser and PSU w/o Ament. IMO the loss devastates LC while Amebt hurts PSU but they are still a very good team

The past 3 seasons are evidence to the contrary. With a sophomore Ament PSU hosted a first round tournament game. The next year without him they went 8-6 and missed the B1G and NCAA tournaments. With him again this year they are the clear #1 team in the country.

[thatsmell]

Sowers is fun to watch. So is Ament. But it’s not their year. Spencer has been a beast and personal highlight reel all season long. Being in the top 3 all-time scoring gives Pat the Tewy.

[Farfromgeneva]

Sowers is fun to watch. So is Ament. But it’s not their year. Spencer has been a beast and personal highlight reel all season long. Being in the top 3 all-time scoring gives Pat the Tewy.

Practically speaking I think this is right. Barring something crazy (Spencer gets shutout and Ament does something akin to one of the late aughts Cuse championship teams who seemed to have one guy transcend to mythlike level (Abbott, Levelle, etc), this seems to have drifted to a little bit of a career achievement award with so many more FR and Sophs playing at such a level these days. In two years it might be Teat, Gray and a couple of underclassmen and one of the seniors will win.