UNC vs BC - Saturday March 6 - 11:00am

[Cletus]

I see Ortega scores her sixth with 1:55 to go, with UNC up 20-9. No talk of stat-padding here?

Nope..BC not Umass, and prob a revenge thing against BC beating UNC in NCAA tourney...also prob in response to AW’s comment on UNC Instagram JO 199 goal clip .

What did the comment from AW (I'm assuming these are the truncated initials of the BC coach) read on Instagram? Has she since removed it?

My D showed me a screenshot...apparently she commented on the JO clip - tagging her own goalie. It wasn't anything she said...it was the fact that the college coach involved herself in a college students insta...its like a no-no I guess. I hear the UNC coaching staff was annoyed and fired up. It def backfired on AW.

She must have removed it because it isn’t there. Or maybe it was a different post. In any event, NC doesn’t need extra motivation to beat BC.

[Laxfan500]

I see Ortega scores her sixth with 1:55 to go, with UNC up 20-9. No talk of stat-padding here?

Nope..BC not Umass, and prob a revenge thing against BC beating UNC in NCAA tourney...also prob in response to AW’s comment on UNC Instagram JO 199 goal clip .

What did the comment from AW (I'm assuming these are the truncated initials of the BC coach) read on Instagram? Has she since removed it?

My D showed me a screenshot...apparently she commented on the JO clip - tagging her own goalie. It wasn't anything she said...it was the fact that the college coach involved herself in a college students insta...its like a no-no I guess. I hear the UNC coaching staff was annoyed and fired up. It def backfired on AW.

She must have removed it because it isn’t there. Or maybe it was a different post. In any event, NC doesn’t need extra motivation to beat BC.

I believe she was advised to remove it .

[Can Opener]

I have assembled a few choice quotes below from the FanLax chapter of MENSA. This stuff is bordering on creepy. It really isn't substantive criticism, but seems to be driven by a deep and irrational dislike of this young woman. She is strong, confident, aggressive, athletic, skilled, and plays with some attitude. Please answer this question sincerely to yourself: If she were a dude, would I have a big a problem with her? As for the criticism that could charitably be called substantive, it is so far off base that it just reinforces my "creepy" comment. Every team has an attacker whose job is to finish or create something from nothing. CN is that person for BC. If you want to criticize her, then let's open a special page devoted to hating women who score lots of goals. JO's career stats are 205G 70A for a G/A ratio of 2.9X. Emily Hawryschuk has 197G 41A for a 4.80X ratio. Izzy Scane, another pre-season first team All American, has 82G 23A for a 3.56X. Since joining BC, CN has 34G 14A for a 2.42X ratio. Granted, her ratio is better at BC under AWW, but her overall career numbers are 175G 50A for a 3.5X ratio.

In the interest of extending an olive branch, I will figure out a way to provide a cold IPA for anyone who listens to her full podcast interview and has the humility to post something like: "Yeah. Not quite as bad as I thought she was."
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/c ... 0511375725

"All you really need to think about here is that Duke improved when North left."
"North has always "only been about herself". I think its the reason she left Duke, her teammates grew sick of her act. She's a very talented player, but there are countless others I would rather have on my team before her, countless…"
"there is no good reason for those two “top” players to go in and score with less than 1-2 minutes left in a blow out other than to pad their stats."
"Classless"
"Last week North scores on open net with like 20 seconds left in a game that they were up by many. I just dislike seeing the “unsportsmanlike-like” players in Lacrosse."
"Can we please stop with the North hype?"
"Charlotte North needs to learn to pass."
"Am I watching the Charlotte North show or what? So selfish, that girl is. Get your teammates involved!"

[Cletus]

I have assembled a few choice quotes below from the FanLax chapter of MENSA. This stuff is bordering on creepy. It really isn't substantive criticism, but seems to be driven by a deep and irrational dislike of this young woman. She is strong, confident, aggressive, athletic, skilled, and plays with some attitude. Please answer this question sincerely to yourself: If she were a dude, would I have a big a problem with her? As for the criticism that could charitably be called substantive, it is so far off base that it just reinforces my "creepy" comment. Every team has an attacker whose job is to finish or create something from nothing. CN is that person for BC. If you want to criticize her, then let's open a special page devoted to hating women who score lots of goals. JO's career stats are 205G 70A for a G/A ratio of 2.9X. Emily Hawryschuk has 197G 41A for a 4.80X ratio. Izzy Scane, another pre-season first team All American, has 82G 23A for a 3.56X. Since joining BC, CN has 34G 14A for a 2.42X ratio. Granted, her ratio is better at BC under AWW, but her overall career numbers are 175G 50A for a 3.5X ratio.

In the interest of extending an olive branch, I will figure out a way to provide a cold IPA for anyone who listens to her full podcast interview and has the humility to post something like: "Yeah. Not quite as bad as I thought she was."
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/c ... 0511375725

"All you really need to think about here is that Duke improved when North left."
"North has always "only been about herself". I think its the reason she left Duke, her teammates grew sick of her act. She's a very talented player, but there are countless others I would rather have on my team before her, countless…"
"there is no good reason for those two “top” players to go in and score with less than 1-2 minutes left in a blow out other than to pad their stats."
"Classless"
"Last week North scores on open net with like 20 seconds left in a game that they were up by many. I just dislike seeing the “unsportsmanlike-like” players in Lacrosse."
"Can we please stop with the North hype?"
"Charlotte North needs to learn to pass."
"Am I watching the Charlotte North show or what? So selfish, that girl is. Get your teammates involved!"

Now I’m really wondering who you are Can Opener. Maybe someone close to Charlotte, maybe you helped “recruit” her to BC. Maybe you’re a coach/assistant coach on Boston College. In any event, don’t lump all us “middle aged white dudes” in together. I defend North and there are others on these boards who do as well.

[Cletus]

I see Ortega scores her sixth with 1:55 to go, with UNC up 20-9. No talk of stat-padding here?

Nope..BC not Umass, and prob a revenge thing against BC beating UNC in NCAA tourney...also prob in response to AW’s comment on UNC Instagram JO 199 goal clip .

What did the comment from AW (I'm assuming these are the truncated initials of the BC coach) read on Instagram? Has she since removed it?

My D showed me a screenshot...apparently she commented on the JO clip - tagging her own goalie. It wasn't anything she said...it was the fact that the college coach involved herself in a college students insta...its like a no-no I guess. I hear the UNC coaching staff was annoyed and fired up. It def backfired on AW.

She must have removed it because it isn’t there. Or maybe it was a different post. In any event, NC doesn’t need extra motivation to beat BC.

I believe she was advised to remove it .

What did it say?

[Cletus]

I have assembled a few choice quotes below from the FanLax chapter of MENSA. This stuff is bordering on creepy. It really isn't substantive criticism, but seems to be driven by a deep and irrational dislike of this young woman. She is strong, confident, aggressive, athletic, skilled, and plays with some attitude. Please answer this question sincerely to yourself: If she were a dude, would I have a big a problem with her? As for the criticism that could charitably be called substantive, it is so far off base that it just reinforces my "creepy" comment. Every team has an attacker whose job is to finish or create something from nothing. CN is that person for BC. If you want to criticize her, then let's open a special page devoted to hating women who score lots of goals. JO's career stats are 205G 70A for a G/A ratio of 2.9X. Emily Hawryschuk has 197G 41A for a 4.80X ratio. Izzy Scane, another pre-season first team All American, has 82G 23A for a 3.56X. Since joining BC, CN has 34G 14A for a 2.42X ratio. Granted, her ratio is better at BC under AWW, but her overall career numbers are 175G 50A for a 3.5X ratio.

In the interest of extending an olive branch, I will figure out a way to provide a cold IPA for anyone who listens to her full podcast interview and has the humility to post something like: "Yeah. Not quite as bad as I thought she was."
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/c ... 0511375725

"All you really need to think about here is that Duke improved when North left."
"North has always "only been about herself". I think its the reason she left Duke, her teammates grew sick of her act. She's a very talented player, but there are countless others I would rather have on my team before her, countless…"
"there is no good reason for those two “top” players to go in and score with less than 1-2 minutes left in a blow out other than to pad their stats."
"Classless"
"Last week North scores on open net with like 20 seconds left in a game that they were up by many. I just dislike seeing the “unsportsmanlike-like” players in Lacrosse."
"Can we please stop with the North hype?"
"Charlotte North needs to learn to pass."
"Am I watching the Charlotte North show or what? So selfish, that girl is. Get your teammates involved!"

Now I’m really wondering who you are Can Opener. Maybe someone close to Charlotte, maybe you helped “recruit” her to BC. Maybe you’re a coach/assistant coach on Boston College. In any event, don’t lump all us “middle aged white dudes” in together. I defend North and there are others on these boards who do as well.

Oh, and I disagree with your generous use of the words “hate” and “creepy”. That’s shaming language. That gets you nowhere fast. You think anyone will take you up on your offer after you just called them “haters” and “creepy” along with “middle aged white dude”?

[Can Opener]

I have assembled a few choice quotes below from the FanLax chapter of MENSA. This stuff is bordering on creepy. It really isn't substantive criticism, but seems to be driven by a deep and irrational dislike of this young woman. She is strong, confident, aggressive, athletic, skilled, and plays with some attitude. Please answer this question sincerely to yourself: If she were a dude, would I have a big a problem with her? As for the criticism that could charitably be called substantive, it is so far off base that it just reinforces my "creepy" comment. Every team has an attacker whose job is to finish or create something from nothing. CN is that person for BC. If you want to criticize her, then let's open a special page devoted to hating women who score lots of goals. JO's career stats are 205G 70A for a G/A ratio of 2.9X. Emily Hawryschuk has 197G 41A for a 4.80X ratio. Izzy Scane, another pre-season first team All American, has 82G 23A for a 3.56X. Since joining BC, CN has 34G 14A for a 2.42X ratio. Granted, her ratio is better at BC under AWW, but her overall career numbers are 175G 50A for a 3.5X ratio.

In the interest of extending an olive branch, I will figure out a way to provide a cold IPA for anyone who listens to her full podcast interview and has the humility to post something like: "Yeah. Not quite as bad as I thought she was."
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/c ... 0511375725

"All you really need to think about here is that Duke improved when North left."
"North has always "only been about herself". I think its the reason she left Duke, her teammates grew sick of her act. She's a very talented player, but there are countless others I would rather have on my team before her, countless…"
"there is no good reason for those two “top” players to go in and score with less than 1-2 minutes left in a blow out other than to pad their stats."
"Classless"
"Last week North scores on open net with like 20 seconds left in a game that they were up by many. I just dislike seeing the “unsportsmanlike-like” players in Lacrosse."
"Can we please stop with the North hype?"
"Charlotte North needs to learn to pass."
"Am I watching the Charlotte North show or what? So selfish, that girl is. Get your teammates involved!"

Now I’m really wondering who you are Can Opener. Maybe someone close to Charlotte, maybe you helped “recruit” her to BC. Maybe you’re a coach/assistant coach on Boston College. In any event, don’t lump all us “middle aged white dudes” in together. I defend North and there are others on these boards who do as well.

Sorry, Cletus. I know that you have been a voice of reason on here. As a middle-aged white dude myself, I know that our Schwinn Varsity generation has opinions of all shapes and sizes. I have no formal affiliation with the team. I'm not a coach, BC alum or current parent. Our family just deeply admires the BC program and all they have done for Massachusetts lacrosse. We have been fortunate enough to have many interactions with the coaches and players over the years, and 100% of the time we have found them to be wonderful ambassadors of the sport. So, yeah, I'm biased in the sense that I am a fan of the program. I also appreciate NJBill's thoughtful piece on this issue. Yes, they are big kids now and should be able to handle some fair criticism. On the other hand, there is a massive effort nationwide to clean up how we treat our young athletes. This cuts across every national governing body in every sport that I am aware of. To my mind, there is a big difference between saying "Player X really needs to work on her left." and "Player X is classless and her teammates are sick of her." Sports talk radio on the Bruins, have at it. Written discussions about young athletes, let's be careful. Call me a prude, old-fashioned or perpetuating the everyone-gets-a-trophy generation, but I am much more comfortable on the side of critical restraint than mean-spirited name calling.

IPAs are on ice. Just need a way to ship them as the mea culpas come streaming in. :-)

[Cletus]

As a middle-aged white dude myself, I know that our Schwinn Varsity generation has opinions of all shapes and sizes. I have no formal affiliation with the team. I'm not a coach, BC alum or current parent. Our family just deeply admires the BC program and all they have done for Massachusetts lacrosse. We have been fortunate enough to have many interactions with the coaches and players over the years, and 100% of the time we have found them to be wonderful ambassadors of the sport. So, yeah, I'm biased in the sense that I am a fan of the program. I also appreciate NJBill's thoughtful piece on this issue. Yes, they are big kids now and should be able to handle some fair criticism. On the other hand, there is a massive effort nationwide to clean up how we treat our young athletes. This cuts across every national governing body in every sport that I am aware of. To my mind, there is a big difference between saying "Player X really needs to work on her left." and "Player X is classless and her teammates are sick of her." Sports talk radio on the Bruins, have at it. Written discussions about young athletes, let's be careful. Call me a prude, old-fashioned or perpetuating the everyone-gets-a-trophy generation, but I am much more comfortable on the side of critical restraint than mean-spirited name calling.

IPAs are on ice. Just need a way to ship them as the mea culpas come streaming in. :-)

Well said, Can Opener

[8meterPA]

I have assembled a few choice quotes below from the FanLax chapter of MENSA. This stuff is bordering on creepy. It really isn't substantive criticism, but seems to be driven by a deep and irrational dislike of this young woman. She is strong, confident, aggressive, athletic, skilled, and plays with some attitude. Please answer this question sincerely to yourself: If she were a dude, would I have a big a problem with her? As for the criticism that could charitably be called substantive, it is so far off base that it just reinforces my "creepy" comment. Every team has an attacker whose job is to finish or create something from nothing. CN is that person for BC. If you want to criticize her, then let's open a special page devoted to hating women who score lots of goals. JO's career stats are 205G 70A for a G/A ratio of 2.9X. Emily Hawryschuk has 197G 41A for a 4.80X ratio. Izzy Scane, another pre-season first team All American, has 82G 23A for a 3.56X. Since joining BC, CN has 34G 14A for a 2.42X ratio. Granted, her ratio is better at BC under AWW, but her overall career numbers are 175G 50A for a 3.5X ratio.

In the interest of extending an olive branch, I will figure out a way to provide a cold IPA for anyone who listens to her full podcast interview and has the humility to post something like: "Yeah. Not quite as bad as I thought she was."
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/c ... 0511375725

"All you really need to think about here is that Duke improved when North left."
"North has always "only been about herself". I think its the reason she left Duke, her teammates grew sick of her act. She's a very talented player, but there are countless others I would rather have on my team before her, countless…"
"there is no good reason for those two “top” players to go in and score with less than 1-2 minutes left in a blow out other than to pad their stats."
"Classless"
"Last week North scores on open net with like 20 seconds left in a game that they were up by many. I just dislike seeing the “unsportsmanlike-like” players in Lacrosse."
"Can we please stop with the North hype?"
"Charlotte North needs to learn to pass."
"Am I watching the Charlotte North show or what? So selfish, that girl is. Get your teammates involved!"

Can Opener

Not sure the purpose of the exercise - but perhaps you should also invest time and research all the positive comments on CN as well. I know I've posted positive comments "best athlete on the field" and "good as advertised". Having said that, If I'm building a team from the ground up and can pick any 11 kids, she wouldn't be one of them.

Now how do you reconcile "best athlete on the field" and "good as advertised" with not picking her as a top 11? it get's to the point that many have made, she is a great individual talent, but the opinion of many is that she hasn't figured out how to work within a team construct and achieve team goals. And it is ok to make that criticism without calling people creepy, middle aged, white and whatever else only destroys any argument that you are trying to make because that's what people will focus on.

I'll also tell you that I send my daughter different videos of CN because of her creativity and some of her moves that are crazy. I'll also point out that every attacker needs to give 100% on the redefend and always, always, give it up to your open teammate. Point being that scoring goals are just a small part of the game.

[Can Opener]

8Meter - None of your comments are among the ones I quoted. You are always a constructive contributor to this forum. As a middle-aged white guy myself, I did not anticipate how sensitive my brothers are. Just trying to have a little fun with our demographic, but I guess that backfired. Your point about it distracting from my overall arguments is spot on because I don't see or expect much commentary on the numbers I cited showing that CN's ratio of goals to assists is better or right in line with her scoring-threat peers. Remarkably, the four very talented attackers I cited all have nearly identical rates of turnovers, GBs and shot percentage. If CN were really an outlier on forcing her way through triple teams and taking bad shots instead of passing, we would see it in the stats. As someone who has coached against players like CN many times, I have often muttered to myself or a fellow coach derisively: "There is no way this kid passes." But secretly we are hoping the kid does pass because s/he is so damned strong.

To be honest, I am fascinated with why this player drives some people so nuts. (Not you.) I have read most posts in the D1 Women's forum over many years going back to LaxPower and I can't remember any other female collegiate player who has been on the receiving end of so many put-downs. Is it bunny boiler creepy? No. Does it reflect well on the name callers? Also no. These types of players who bring some swagger to their sport are usually adored by their home fans and detested by opposing fans. I get that. I'm just suggesting a little brake tap on the nastier character critiques.

If a few of my Yeti coffee-cup-toting, mesh-trucker-cap-wearing brethren had to be harmed in the making of these posts, I can live with that. Eddie Murphy fills in some of the blanks with this 1984 SNL skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_LeJfn_qW0

[laxrat1976]

I don't think anyone here will say that North isn't an incredibly gifted player and is fun to watch. She has grown a lot as a player as well. She out there on the field directing traffic. Definitely not something she was doing a couple years ago.

But go watch the UNC game. Just under 24 to go in the second half. North has 5 UNC defenders collapse to her. UNC has arguably the best defense in the country right now. Do you think they would be collapsing like that if they knew she wasn't going to pass the ball?

Other coaches see it. They play her as though she isn't going to pass. It says a lot about her that she's able to get goals considering the attention she gets defensively. You can't just look at stat lines to see holes in a players game.

[Can Opener]

I don't think anyone here will say that North isn't an incredibly gifted player and is fun to watch. She has grown a lot as a player as well. She out there on the field directing traffic. Definitely not something she was doing a couple years ago.

But go watch the UNC game. Just under 24 to go in the second half. North has 5 UNC defenders collapse to her. UNC has arguably the best defense in the country right now. Do you think they would be collapsing like that if they knew she wasn't going to pass the ball?

Other coaches see it. They play her as though she isn't going to pass. It says a lot about her that she's able to get goals considering the attention she gets defensively. You can't just look at stat lines to see holes in a players game.

I appreciate your measured response, LR, and I really have to get back to my day job, but I did take a timeout to watch the sequence you described. I wouldn't call that collapsing to her. Of the four defenders who were not originally guarding her, I think they took a combined 3 steps. Some actually stepped away from her as she approached. CN simply ran into traffic in the dirty area in front of the goal and immediately spun away. After drawing this attention, what did she do? She passed to an open teammate. That just doesn't fit the narrative of the selfish player who refuses to pass. There may be videos out there that make that point, but (respectfully) this isn't one of them.

For those looking to draw their own conclusions, the sequence is at the 1:10:00 mark of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeueMyRO91A

[Cletus]

I don't think anyone here will say that North isn't an incredibly gifted player and is fun to watch. She has grown a lot as a player as well. She out there on the field directing traffic. Definitely not something she was doing a couple years ago.

But go watch the UNC game. Just under 24 to go in the second half. North has 5 UNC defenders collapse to her. UNC has arguably the best defense in the country right now. Do you think they would be collapsing like that if they knew she wasn't going to pass the ball?

Other coaches see it. They play her as though she isn't going to pass. It says a lot about her that she's able to get goals considering the attention she gets defensively. You can't just look at stat lines to see holes in a players game.

I appreciate your measured response, LR, and I really have to get back to my day job, but I did take a timeout to watch the sequence you described. I wouldn't call that collapsing to her. Of the four defenders who were not originally guarding her, I think they took a combined 3 steps. Some actually stepped away from her as she approached. CN simply ran into traffic in the dirty area in front of the goal and immediately spun away. After drawing this attention, what did she do? She passed to an open teammate. That just doesn't fit the narrative of the selfish player who refuses to pass. There may be videos out there that make that point, but (respectfully) this isn't one of them.

For those looking to draw their own conclusions, the sequence is at the 1:10:00 mark of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeueMyRO91A

I agree with the Can Man.

[Can Opener]

I don't think anyone here will say that North isn't an incredibly gifted player and is fun to watch. She has grown a lot as a player as well. She out there on the field directing traffic. Definitely not something she was doing a couple years ago.

But go watch the UNC game. Just under 24 to go in the second half. North has 5 UNC defenders collapse to her. UNC has arguably the best defense in the country right now. Do you think they would be collapsing like that if they knew she wasn't going to pass the ball?

Other coaches see it. They play her as though she isn't going to pass. It says a lot about her that she's able to get goals considering the attention she gets defensively. You can't just look at stat lines to see holes in a players game.

I appreciate your measured response, LR, and I really have to get back to my day job, but I did take a timeout to watch the sequence you described. I wouldn't call that collapsing to her. Of the four defenders who were not originally guarding her, I think they took a combined 3 steps. Some actually stepped away from her as she approached. CN simply ran into traffic in the dirty area in front of the goal and immediately spun away. After drawing this attention, what did she do? She passed to an open teammate. That just doesn't fit the narrative of the selfish player who refuses to pass. There may be videos out there that make that point, but (respectfully) this isn't one of them.

For those looking to draw their own conclusions, the sequence is at the 1:10:00 mark of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeueMyRO91A

I agree with the Can Man.

Thanks. I am still waiting for my wife to utter those words after two decades of marriage.

BTW, 10 seconds later in this video sequence, CN does a face dodge that leaves #23, the pre-season top defender in the country, stuck in mud. Credit to Moreno for making an excellent save on the doorstep.

[laxagainsthumanity]

CN's passing game has steadily improved beginning her sophomore season. She is still mostly a dodging threat because that's where she's elite. We could argue over whether she's selfish, but that alleged selfishness is green-lit by her coaches (I think more so at BC than at Duke). A lot of the scoring burden is placed on CN and she seems to have people telling her to take 30 shots to score 5 goals if that's what she has to do. Watching her isn't that different than watching Lasota her first three full seasons. I don't love it and I wouldn't place her in the same category as K Ohlmiller, Apuzzo, Kent, Treanor, Hoeg, Ortega, etc. But she's probably just doing what she's supposed to.

[Cletus]

As a middle-aged white guy myself, I did not anticipate how sensitive my brothers are. Just trying to have a little fun with our demographic, but I guess that backfired.

Not at all. I think it's funny. One Badlands a couple of years ago typified the regulars on Women's div 1 as "the ten of us (old guys) on here"