Extra year granted

[LaxGuy17]

winners and losers on all sides of the extra year debate. Transfer portal up. Any rumors about who is in already?

[Lax247]

So hearing about Grant Ament not taking 5th year led me to consider...what if this Covid19 lasts longer than the summer into the fall. Some seniors may not feel it’s worth it to return back to school for that extra year ? ESP if fall ball canceled and students still doing classes on line...

[njfanlax]

So hearing about Grant Ament not taking 5th year led me to consider...what if this Covid19 lasts longer than the summer into the fall. Some seniors may not feel it’s worth it to return back to school for that extra year ? ESP if fall ball canceled and students still doing classes on line...

Definitely within the realm of possibility.
What is the NCAA going to do about fall sports, give those guys an extra year of eligibility, too? That would be the fair thing to do.

[laxfan22]

So hearing about Grant Ament not taking 5th year led me to consider...what if this Covid19 lasts longer than the summer into the fall. Some seniors may not feel it’s worth it to return back to school for that extra year ? ESP if fall ball canceled and students still doing classes on line...

This would actually have been year 6 for Ament, iirc. Great player. He has a lot of lacrosse left in him.

[laxagainsthumanity]

In general, college teams can only recruit players to fill positions that become available when those at the end of the pipeline leave/graduate.
I am pessimistic that colleges can afford to increase their rosters (for a non-revenue sport) substantially to allow for those extra players.

So If you take it to an extreme, if every college sophomore for every D1 team decided to stay the extra year (which the NCAA is potentially allowing), then there will be 0 roster spots for the entire US high school class of 2022. The following year, the same thing would happen to the high school class of 2023, if every college freshman stayed for their 5th year.

If a national average of only 2 college sophomores/team decided to stay the extra year and there are 8 sophomores/team, it doesn't seem like a lot- but you have effectively shrunk the available college lacrosse roster spots for the HS Class of 2022 recruits by 25%. This could be a huge negative impact to those further behind in the lacrosse pipeline.

On the surface, It seems right to give the current college players an extra year of eligibility; but the effect of unintended consequences seem to be very unfair to the younger players coming from behind.

I follow your logic and do agree somewhat. wlax rosters can go anywhere from a low of 20 to 45/50. There's always an ebb and flow in the roster size, I wouldn't get too worried about 2022's at this point. What will probably happen as well is that there will be more attrition than normal - which is about 20% from freshman to senior class. Also remember that 25%+ of kids never really see any real playing time during their college career and freshman typically don't play.

Why more attrition? You think it's just a natural consequence of having more girls who aren't seeing playing time?

[totc]

You read it here first. (OK, second. Just posted on FB.)

North Carolina will win the 2021 NCAA Division I women's lacrosse title.

Heck, their JV could win it as well.

If the entire senior class was to return (Hoeg, Wakefield, DiVietro, etc.) combined with the talent coming into the side (Caitlyn Wurzburger, Shannon Smith, Reilly Casey, Alyssa Long, Alexa Gentile, etc.), Jenny Levy is going to have one problem: finding enough lacrosse balls when they are shot over the end line and get lost under the bleachers. They are going to be, I think, the greatest offensive force since Maryland's 2001 team when Jen Adams was a senior.

Offensively, don’t forget the Jr.s Growney and Mastroianni, and the 2 sophomores Hillman and Warehime both should return from injury, ...that’s a lot of firepower.

Speaking of juniors that Ortega kid isn’t bad either...

Yeah, she's aiiiight.

[Dr. Tact]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... ions-make/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... explained/

[njbill]

For those of us who can’t access the WaPo on-line, can you either post relevant excerpts or say what the gist is? Thanks.

[Dr. Tact]

For those of us who can’t access the WaPo on-line, can you either post relevant excerpts or say what the gist is? Thanks.

I didnt know you couldnt access online. Sorry. What is the policy of quoting published material?

[njbill]

Not sure. I thought if you include the link to the source article, you were OK to excerpt. People do it all the time on the Politics board. I know our friend seacoaster knows how to do it.

[8meterPA]

they are opinion articles - basically saying that an extra year should be granted to all spring athletes, regardless of year (ie, freshman or senior) and that it's doubtful that winter athletes will get an extra year. Also say they should increase scholarship limit by 25% for 1 year to help out.

Also says that D2 has already did the above.

I'm guessing this may be a "leak" of what the vote/news tomorrow will be.

btw, I was able to access the articles, maybe because I really don't click on wpost stuff so I still had my 3 free monthly articles available!

[DMac]

Here's one of the articles:

What would NCAA eligibility relief for spring sport athletes
By
Emily Giambalvo
March 26, 2020 at 12:58 p.m. EDT
During the week when sports skidded to a halt, college athletes around the country watched their seasons abruptly end, sometimes without as much as a final team meeting to offer closure. Once the NBA suspended its season March 11 after a player tested positive for the novel coronavirus, similar decisions rippled through the U.S. sports landscape.

The careers of college athletes have finite terms; they’re not simply bound by injury or skill but by the NCAA’s ticking eligibility clock. Athletes have four seasons to play for their colleges, and the 2020 campaigns had only just begun for spring sports such as baseball, softball and lacrosse.

The day after the NCAA canceled its winter and spring championship events, an NCAA committee announced its leadership "agreed that eligibility relief is appropriate for all Division I student-athletes who participated in spring sports,” with details set to be finalized later. While praising the NCAA’s quickness in addressing the issue, athletic directors warned that this announcement doesn’t equate to an official decision.

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The NCAA’s Division I Council — which includes athletic directors, other administrators, faculty athletics representatives and athletes — will discuss and vote on eligibility relief, along with related issues, on Monday.

For athletes, extended eligibility would help amend a lost season. Morgan State Athletic Director Edward Scott played baseball at the University at Albany. When envisioning himself reacting to this news as an athlete, Scott said, “I would have called my coach and my athletic director trying to figure out what I’ve got to do to get that year back.” Those are the conversations athletes at Morgan State, a historically black university in Baltimore, will now have with Scott.

Sign up for our Coronavirus Updates newsletter to track the outbreak. All stories linked in the newsletter are free to access.

Administrators and coaches agree that eligibility relief is the fair and reasonable resolution these athletes deserve. It aligns with other NCAA rules, such as redshirting because of an injury, that help preserve their four seasons of play.

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“When something outside of your control takes away the ability to compete — and usually we think of an injury — you get that year back,” Tulane Athletic Director Troy Dannen said. “And this is something certainly outside the control of the student.”

But beneath that rosy outcome are myriad challenges, ones that athletic departments are prepared to handle but could strain programs with less money. Roster rules and scholarship limits will need adjustments. Coaches sometimes recruit, and players occasionally commit to programs, with graduating classes in mind. The ripple effect of granting eligibility relief could last for a few years.

It’s a positive for the athletes who lost the opportunity to compete, James Madison Athletic Director Jeff Bourne said, but “this is going to be an incredibly confusing and daunting task.”

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Here are a few questions this unusual situation has raised:

Who would receive the eligibility relief?
Administrators and coaches think eligibility relief should apply to all spring sport athletes whose seasons were cut short. A graduating senior who has played 3¼ seasons is no different from a freshman who will eventually become a senior who played 3¼ seasons.

Similar provisions for winter sport athletes seem more unlikely, given that most of those programs, including men’s and women’s basketball, had nearly finished their seasons.

Athletes are allowed five years to complete their four seasons of eligibility, which eases this process if 2020 is simply treated as a redshirt season for all athletes. Waivers could then be granted for a sixth year if the need arises. For instance, a freshman who missed most of this season because of the cancellations and later had to sit out her junior year with an injury could apply for a waiver to retain all four years of eligibility, only over a six-year stretch.

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An NCAA Division II committee announced that all spring sport athletes would receive an additional season of eligibility, a promising sign for Division I athletes hoping for a similar decision Monday.

With eligibility relief, there would be far more athletes who have their degrees with seasons left to compete. This could lead to more graduate transfers, and Scott said, “I think that’s where the competitive advantages will slide much more toward the larger schools than the mid-majors.”

At a time when spring sports should be blooming, high school athletes are left bitter

What about roster size and scholarship limits?
Those will need to change, at least temporarily. Usually an athletic department determines how many athletes each of its teams can carry. In baseball, the NCAA caps rosters at 35 players. But in both structures, a rule adjustment could rectify those issues.

“In an unusual world, the rules that apply in normal circumstances can’t simply be applied,” said Jo Potuto, the faculty athletics representative and a chaired professor of law at Nebraska. “What you have to do is use your best judgment to see how you can adjust those rules to approximate what the world would have been like if there had not been a crisis.”

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Managing scholarships, which are limited by the NCAA, presents a larger challenge. Incoming freshmen have already committed to programs. Teams with large senior classes could face significant challenges since they probably signed freshmen to fill all of those open spots, causing next year’s rosters to balloon.

Most spring programs are equivalency sports, meaning a specified number of scholarships can be spread among the athletes. For instance, men’s lacrosse allows 12.6 scholarships, and players can receive a fraction of a scholarship.

The NCAA could opt to exclude fifth-year seniors who are using this eligibility relief in the scholarship count, but then schools would all have a different number of scholarships on their rosters. The NCAA could multiply the limits by 1.25, assuming the average program will have a 25 percent larger roster, then allow coaches to divide the scholarships as they see fit.

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Eventually the scholarship limits and roster sizes need to return to the status quo. How they get there is “the magic question,” Southern Mississippi Athletic Director Jeremy McClain said. Those numbers could ease back down through the next few years, eventually returning to normal. A sudden drop from an elevated allotment would limit opportunities for high schoolers, or for then-seniors hoping to stay another year to make up the season they lost.

“It’s going to be a difficult situation no matter how it’s done,” McClain said. “So I think that’s the big question right now: If we get the go-ahead, how much time do we have to try to get back down to what the normal roster limits would be? And I think that’s going to be more difficult than most people imagine.”

Virginia’s Bryce Perkins, Bryce Hall are staying busy for NFL draft despite coronavirus outbreak

Will athletic departments be able to afford this?
Some will and others won’t. If the NCAA grants eligibility relief to these athletes and adjusts the scholarships available, Scott expects to meet with Morgan State’s finance and budget office. He’ll then talk with the compliance department before bringing those parties together with the coaches.

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“We then have to make a tough decision,” Scott said, “because my instinct tells me that we'll be able to afford to retain some, but maybe not all.”

At James Madison, Bourne said the scholarships of spring sport seniors total about $450,000. Even without scholarships, additional athletes on a squad strain a department through expenses such as travel, equipment, meals and apparel. Other areas, including academic support, strength and conditioning, and sports medicine, would also be stretched. Administrators also worry about how universities could be affected by the economic fallout of the coronavirus.

“There are a lot of uncertainties,” Tulane’s Dannen said. “However, for those of us who will have the chance to do it from a financial standpoint, it’s a no-brainer. And the first place we need to make our investment is in the student-athletes.”

AD
Eventually, everyone agrees it’s okay for Trevor Lawrence to fundraise during this pandemic

Will that give programs with more money an advantage?
Yes, but that was the case long before the coronavirus pandemic cut seasons short and prompted this conversation.

“Certain schools have advantages right now that they’re going to continue to have,” said Jon Gilbert, the athletic director at East Carolina. “The schools that necessarily don’t have certain advantages, they’re going to continue to be exactly where they are in the pecking order.”

Other issues of equity could arise based on roster makeup. Teams with many seniors this year would benefit next year. A team with many freshmen this season could reap the reward in a few years, when those players offer a boost during their fifth year.

Potuto said she tells her law students that the world is imperfect. The best approach in a situation like this, she said, is to let what is fair to the athletes be the primary concern, with competitive balance as a secondary issue.

“I would say anybody who's worried about the competitive piece right now needs to get their mind put back into a better place, a more holistic place,” Dannen said.

Will athletic departments save some money this spring?
Yes, because programs are not traveling, recruiting or hosting events. But they’ll also take a financial hit.

Revenue from the NCAA men’s basketball tournament boosts athletic departments around the country. Even though the NCAA had a business-interruption insurance policy that could partially cover losses, USA Today reported that the cancellation of the tournament will probably reduce the association’s scheduled distribution of revenue.

The University System of Maryland, Scott said, is requiring athletic departments to refund part of the athletic fee that students pay. Scott expects that refund at Morgan State to total about $1.5 million.

“Schools our size, we rely heavily on [athletic fees] to subsidize our department,” Scott said. “In most cases at our level, it’s probably the largest form of revenue.”

Where will this be more complicated?
The Ivy League does not allow athletes to exhaust their eligibility during a fifth year at the institution, so an exception would be needed for those athletes to finish their careers at their schools.

Service academies follow a similar guideline, barring extreme circumstances. Athletes have eight semesters to use their four seasons of eligibility.

How many seniors would return for an additional season?
It’s hard to estimate, athletic directors said, because if the NCAA grants eligibility relief, the decisions will be highly individualized and based on decisions regarding scholarship limits. Many athletes in equivalency sports don’t have full scholarships, so their families would have to decide if they can afford a fifth year.

Bourne said perhaps 50 or 60 percent of seniors at James Madison would return next season. Scott said he expects the majority of Morgan State’s seniors would want to play an additional year.

Some athletes might have jobs lined up or feel ready to finish their careers even after this season’s abrupt end, but Maryland women’s lacrosse coach Cathy Reese said, “At least the option is there for them to make that decision themselves, not having somebody make it for them.”

Maryland’s Megan Taylor becomes first lacrosse player selected as AAU Sullivan Award finalist

What’s next?
It’s unclear how nuanced the NCAA’s decision will be Monday. Will the association simply determine whether athletes will receive eligibility relief? Or will other details, such as scholarship counts, be resolved, too?

Athletic departments will then begin a marathon of decision-making and problem-solving as they navigate the logistical hurdles.

“It’s going to be a challenge,” Southern Mississippi’s McClain said. “And in this situation, it’s one that I’m willing to tackle because I think it’s the right thing for our student-athletes.”

With the spring semester ongoing — and many schools planning to finish classes online — athletic departments are also working through more imminent concerns related to academics and athlete well-being from afar.

Uncertainty dominates conversations about the coronavirus, so it’s still early to look far ahead. But football begins in about five months. And that’s where “Power Five” conference programs reel in revenue and smaller schools receive payouts for playing guarantee games.

“We’ll get through the NCAA legislation piece and this eligibility piece, and there will be some financial ramifications,” Scott said. “But I think that the real focus for most athletic directors is going to be: Once we get through this, what does it look like for the summer and the fall?

[Dr. Tact]

DMac

thanks.

[njbill]

Thanks as well.

8meter, for some reason, I don’t seem to be able to get any free WaPo reads anymore. Didn’t it used to be 10 per month? I really need to bite the bullet and subscribe.

[DMac]

No sweat, boys.
The other one cut me off, said the party's over.
I think WaPo will give you a couple a month, but they're pretty stingy.
Seems to me as if I've tried with more of a separation than a month but to no avail.

[Lax247]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... s-to-vote/

After reading this article I’m thinking they may just give seniors. The 5th year.

[smoova]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... s-to-vote/

After reading this article I’m thinking they may just give seniors. The 5th year.

From your fingers to God's ears ...

[Dr. Tact]

Here is the other one...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... ions-make/

Even if the NCAA grants spring sports seniors another season, there are tough decisions to make

By
Barry Svrluga
Sports columnist
March 29, 2020 at 7:07 a.m. EDT

Had Friday been a normal Friday, which it decidedly was not, Reilly White would have been with her teammates on the University of Virginia women’s crew team at the Rivanna Duals, staged north of Charlottesville. It was to be her final season of rowing, and instead she’s running in solitude, riding a Peloton with a virtual class, trying to find routine when hers is broken.

“I miss my team,” she said.

Had Sunday been a normal Sunday, which it decidedly was not, Meghan Doherty would have been with her teammates on the University of Maryland women’s lacrosse team, preparing to host James Madison. It was to be her last season with the Terrapins, the defending national champions. Instead, the lacrosse she plays is with Olive, her sister’s pit bull, in their Baltimore backyard.

“Oh, my God,” she said. “I miss it so much.”

But what if the end is not the end? What if the NCAA considers all the seasons of all the seniors that were wiped out by the novel coronavirus pandemic and grants them another chance at closure by giving them another year of eligibility?

“My team and even other teams, we feel like we have a little bit of unfinished business,” White said. “But there’s just so many things you have to consider.”

“It’s kind of hard to process all of that,” Doherty said. “I’ve been trying not to think about it, because then I’d just overthink it.”

The NCAA and its schools, though, are giving it thought.

It goes without saying that there are more pressing, more important issues than whether Reilly White ever rows again for her Cavaliers or Meghan Doherty ever scoops up another groundball for her Terrapins. Each is highly aware of that.

“The rowing being canceled was everything to me,” White said. “But now, if you look at the world, it was so small in the grand scheme of things.”

But they also know what it felt like to be in the midst of their final seasons, only to have them screech to a halt. The lives of college athletes are built on routine and balance. Now those commodities are among those in short supply. The pandemic is bigger than us all. That doesn’t mean the pain of losing a season wasn’t raw.

“We almost knew in the back of our head it was going to happen, but no one was ready to admit it,” White said. “And then when we heard, it was just devastating. Completely devastating.”

“We’re performing on such a high level, at the top platform that we can reach,” Doherty said. “It was definitely heartbreaking for us athletes.”

What would NCAA eligibility relief for spring sport athletes entail? Athletic directors explain.

Take those emotions and apply them to thousands of athletes across all the spring sports whose seasons were canceled because of the spread of the coronavirus. The most recent NCAA data shows that 5,472 women were members of Division I rowing teams in 2018-19, and another 3,661 women played lacrosse.

Back-of-the-envelope math would show that, if those numbers were roughly steady this year and a quarter of those students were in their final year of eligibility, nearly 2,300 athletes from those two sports alone would be wondering whether they might have another season ahead next spring. And that doesn’t address the men’s versions of those sports or baseball and softball, track and field and all the other athletes in all the other divisions across all the other spring sports.

On Monday, an NCAA group called the Division I Council will meet, remotely, to discuss and vote on what it is calling “eligibility relief” for students whose careers ended prematurely.

“In principle, the coordination committee agrees relief should be extended to spring sport student-athletes and supports providing schools with a framework in which they have the autonomy to make their own decisions in the best interest of their campus, conference and student-athletes,” the group said in a March 20 news release.

A committee already has granted extra eligibility for Division II athletes, and that might be a precursor. There are, of course, impacts on athletic programs and schools because coaches have recruited incoming athletes to replace those who are graduating and scholarship limits mean the pool of money available would either have to be increased or spread over more people. For the NCAA, for its schools and conferences, it’s complicated, for sure.

But it’s not simple for the athletes, either. Both White and Doherty, for instance, were on partial scholarships. So the upshot: Coming back to school for another season of competition would mean laying out more money to make it happen.

“It’s definitely hard to ask your parents to give you more than they’ve already given you,” said Doherty, the youngest of six children.

There is, too, the matter of futures planned that would have to be delayed. White and Doherty will graduate this spring. Would they enroll in graduate courses? Doherty figured she would be logging hours for a future as an occupational therapist, for which she would need graduate school. But White expected to take a job in finance. College — and college sports — was slipping into the past.

“It’s hard because it’s so uncertain,” White said. “Especially entering the finance industry because there’s so much uncertainty surrounding that. I’m still so excited for that opportunity.”

She sighed.

“I think, for me, I just need to know,” she said. “I don’t like to play around with the theoretical. I like tangible things that I can put down on paper and look at.”

Eventually, everyone agrees it’s okay for Trevor Lawrence to fundraise during this pandemic

By Monday night, the NCAA should have something for White and the thousands of athletes like her to look at. But that won’t be the end of it. Individual conferences — for White, the ACC; for Doherty, the Big Ten — will have to consider how any framework fits their schools. Schools and athletic departments, in turn, would have to figure out how the finances would work — not just for the upcoming year but for the years that follow.

For now, there are only the games that aren’t being played. When they returned to school after winter break, their springs were planned — practice and train, compete, go to class, get fitted for that cap and gown. Now there is only a dull lament for experiences that might never happen — or could be delayed.

“I miss it all,” Doherty said. “The competition — even just in practice. Being able to be with your teammates. We made the best memories on the field and off the field. I miss seeing them every day and being able to laugh everything off.”

The NCAA should grant the extra year of eligibility. Member schools and athletic departments — and individual coaches and teams — should figure out how to best make that work.

But even if that happens, remember Reilly White and Meghan Doherty and the thousands of athletes like them who were looking forward to this spring — and would have to decide whether they could turn this spring into next spring.

“I was really in for two more months,” White said. “Do you want to go back and start from ground zero and do eight more months? It’s such a tough call.”

[Dr. Tact]

Not sure if this was posted....Sorry if it was.

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/e ... ercussions

[njbill]

I was talking with Larry yesterday, and he raised an issue I hadn't thought of: individual career records. If a fifth year is granted, how will records be calculated? Seems unfair to allow 4.5 years of stats to count. So what do you do? Not count 2020 if the player takes a fifth year, either next year or down the line? Count if if they don't? Don't know.