Texas HS Lacrosse

[Bodhi]

How can schools not allow football but allow lacrosse? The concept doesn't make any sense....

Different governing body because lacrosse is a club sport.

[HooDat]

How can schools not allow football but allow lacrosse? The concept doesn't make any sense....

Different governing body because lacrosse is a club sport.

It doesn't mean the schools are going to give teams field space, or that the schools will maintain their sponsorship of the sport if they go against what the school is doing for varsity sports.

And lacrosse is only a club sport for the public schools, not the privates.

Club directors better be careful how they play this out.

[buhund]

Here's what UIL has announced for Fall high school sports

[LaxLurker]

Didn't THSLL have an annual meeting August 1st? Anything of note come out of the meeting?

[hornet2992]

Seeing Frisco has hired John Marano as HC. Think this is a solid hire given the strong track record at Greenhill as an assistant and his strong year at Prosper. Interested to see who he hires as his assistants.

[laxman]

So now THSLL is seriously looking to change the league structure from what I hear.
Anyone know what that actually looks like?

[Surfs_Up]

It looks bad. Too much opportunity to cheat and manipulate.

[LaxLurker]

Do you have specifics regarding the restructuring?

[laxdad9939]

From what I've heard TSHLL would go from three divisions to four divisions. State Championships would be awarded for each division. Divisions/districts would be based more from program location, then school size, and then ability (wins/losses). I've also heard this proposed change driven by the coaches and not the league.

I've also heard shot clock will be implemented.

I don't know if either of those have been voted on or not yet. That would be an interesting coaches meeting to sit in on.

[LaxLurker]

From what I've heard TSHLL would go from three divisions to four divisions. State Championships would be awarded for each division. Divisions/districts would be based more from program location, then school size, and then ability (wins/losses). I've also heard this proposed change driven by the coaches and not the league.

I've also heard shot clock will be implemented.

I don't know if either of those have been voted on or not yet. That would be an interesting coaches meeting to sit in on.

That's interesting. Quick take is the only thing more division adds is more opportunity to sandbag.

[LaxCoachCos]

The league will be voting this Saturday on a few things: League Restructuring Proposal, the new Face-off Rules, and Shot-Clock (not visible) are the big things.

Rough description of the restructuring proposal:
- 4 Divisions (A, B, C & D)
-Host school population and competitiveness are the main two factors considered in divisional allocation.
-In the highest division (A Division), the top 8 teams will compete for the "highest" State Championship (AA State Championship is I believe what it will be called)
-The 16 teams below the top 8 will then compete for the 'A State Championship'
- The 'B Division' will be comprised of a few of the current D1 programs and some of the higher level or bigger school D2 programs, as well as the 6 Dual-Division D2 teams (HP D2, Jesuit D2, Westlake D2, Woodlands D2, Memorial D2, Dripping Springs D2)
- C division is the smaller school D2 programs
- D division is for newer programs or struggling programs
- They have put out a spreadsheet of where every team "should" fit, but they are allowing teams to appeal if they feel they should be placed lower.
- Teams will be expected to have at least 70% of their roster from their host school, but have 2 years to get to that mark or else they wont be eligible for the post-season. The goal is to promote programs to focus on single school teams.
-Team that wins their division will automatically move up to the next division the following year (they have the opportunity to appeal that if they graduate 33% or more of their roster)
-team that loses their division will move down to the next lowest division
-"all teams are encouraged to play at the highest level where competitive"
-8 teams make AA Playoffs, 16 teams make A State Playoffs, 16 Teams make B State Playoffs, 8 Teams make C State playoffs, 4 Teams make D State playoffs
- Again they are letting teams "slot themselves" through an appeal process or something like that, but they have laid out a spreadsheet of where they think everyone belongs. In that spread sheet they have 27 teams in the A division, 31 teams in the B division, 24 teams in the C division, and 15 teams in the D division (they have 3 teams on the spread sheet that either don't exist or are obviously in the wrong list so i adjusted the numbers on here)

That's pretty much all of the important notes I think.

I am worried that like 8 or more teams that pull from large schools and that are slotted in the B Division will request to move down to the C division based on competitiveness. If 8 move down, the B division will only have 23 and the C Division will have 32. That would mean 24 of the 27 (89%) A division teams make the state playoffs, 16 of the 23 (70%) B division teams make the state playoffs, but only 8 of the 32 (25%) C Division teams make the state playoffs, and 4 of the 15 (27%) D Division teams will make the state playoffs.
I guess this is the incentive to get teams to move up.

[LaxLurker]

The league will be voting this Saturday on a few things: League Restructuring Proposal, the new Face-off Rules, and Shot-Clock (not visible) are the big things.

Rough description of the restructuring proposal:
- 4 Divisions (A, B, C & D)
-Host school population and competitiveness are the main two factors considered in divisional allocation.
-In the highest division (A Division), the top 8 teams will compete for the "highest" State Championship (AA State Championship is I believe what it will be called)
-The 16 teams below the top 8 will then compete for the 'A State Championship'
- The 'B Division' will be comprised of a few of the current D1 programs and some of the higher level or bigger school D2 programs, as well as the 6 Dual-Division D2 teams (HP D2, Jesuit D2, Westlake D2, Woodlands D2, Memorial D2, Dripping Springs D2)
- C division is the smaller school D2 programs
- D division is for newer programs or struggling programs
- They have put out a spreadsheet of where every team "should" fit, but they are allowing teams to appeal if they feel they should be placed lower.
- Teams will be expected to have at least 70% of their roster from their host school, but have 2 years to get to that mark or else they wont be eligible for the post-season. The goal is to promote programs to focus on single school teams.
-Team that wins their division will automatically move up to the next division the following year (they have the opportunity to appeal that if they graduate 33% or more of their roster)
-team that loses their division will move down to the next lowest division
-"all teams are encouraged to play at the highest level where competitive"
-8 teams make AA Playoffs, 16 teams make A State Playoffs, 16 Teams make B State Playoffs, 8 Teams make C State playoffs, 4 Teams make D State playoffs
- Again they are letting teams "slot themselves" through an appeal process or something like that, but they have laid out a spreadsheet of where they think everyone belongs. In that spread sheet they have 27 teams in the A division, 31 teams in the B division, 24 teams in the C division, and 15 teams in the D division (they have 3 teams on the spread sheet that either don't exist or are obviously in the wrong list so i adjusted the numbers on here)

That's pretty much all of the important notes I think.

I am worried that like 8 or more teams that pull from large schools and that are slotted in the B Division will request to move down to the C division based on competitiveness. If 8 move down, the B division will only have 23 and the C Division will have 32. That would mean 24 of the 27 (89%) A division teams make the state playoffs, 16 of the 23 (70%) B division teams make the state playoffs, but only 8 of the 32 (25%) C Division teams make the state playoffs, and 4 of the 15 (27%) D Division teams will make the state playoffs.
I guess this is the incentive to get teams to move up.

Thanks for the info. So if I read this right there would be 4 "State Championship" teams every year with two of the Champs coming from programs that in their definition are no way are competitive? Not trying to be mean, but this seems like a continuation of "everyone gets a trophy" syndrome.

How does this address the competitive imbalance...ie the majority of the strongest programs are in DFW?

[Bodhi]

Thanks for the info. So if I read this right there would be 4 "State Championship" teams every year with two of the Champs coming from programs that in their definition are no way are competitive? Not trying to be mean, but this seems like a continuation of "everyone gets a trophy" syndrome.

How does this address the competitive imbalance...ie the majority of the strongest programs are in DFW?

I think you missed the part about the top 8 A division teams playing for a separate AA state title. Everyone gets a trophy indeed.

[LaxCoachCos]

I mean we crown 1A and 6-man state football championships every year in Texas. They are trying to align "like teams" in division to make them more competitive with less blowouts.

[buhund]

Football crowns 12 state champions.

[LaxLurker]

I mean we crown 1A and 6-man state football championships every year in Texas. They are trying to align "like teams" in division to make them more competitive with less blowouts.

There is a clearly defined metric (school size) that the UIL uses to classify. As for lacrosse, I always find it funny when "D2" teams with 3 NCAA DI commits and a program that has been around for 10+ years crows about winning the DII 'ship when they would be competitive in DI just in the middle of the pack. But THSLL lets them self select because a) momma needs a trophy and b) that's what they "feel" is right.

Blowouts happen. Make your program better instead of playing down.

[Surfs_Up]

Football is not a good role model by any means, so to use that as an example would only reinforce that this is a bad idea.
70% from host school. Yea, that right there will be cheated.
How about the power rankings thing. Nope, that sounds like a way for Dallas to manipulate things.

All in all, the current system isn't perfect, but far superior to this proposal.

[LaxCoachCos]

I mean we crown 1A and 6-man state football championships every year in Texas. They are trying to align "like teams" in division to make them more competitive with less blowouts.

There is a clearly defined metric (school size) that the UIL uses to classify. As for lacrosse, I always find it funny when "D2" teams with 3 NCAA DI commits and a program that has been around for 10+ years crows about winning the DII 'ship when they would be competitive in DI just in the middle of the pack. But THSLL lets them self select because a) momma needs a trophy and b) that's what they "feel" is right.

Blowouts happen. Make your program better instead of playing down.

I don't disagree with you on this, but where do the programs that pull from a school of 1800 kids fit in? Should those teams be expected to compete with the programs that pull from 5,000 to 14,000 kids? If the team pulling from 1800, does a really good job of recruiting, and builds a competitive team in D2 or the B or C Division, should they be EXPECTED to compete with those programs that have a huge advantage when concerning how many kids they have the opportunity to pull from? Are these teams "playing down" in this case? We've seen what happens when we take the D2 champion and force them to move up AFTER they were competitive. Almost every one of those teams has struggled. What the UIL gets right is that they separate teams so the compete against other "Like schools" as much as they can.

Those programs pulling from huge schools/multiple schools have the "opportunity" to bring in huge classes every year. That doesn't mean they do or have the ability to do so. That all depends on their ability to recruit. Forcing a "small school" public school program who is good at recruiting to move up just because they are better at recruiting than the other programs seems unfair to me. Should that team feel ashamed for winning a state championship at their "appropriate level," because they didn't "challenge themselves" and move up to play against programs who they should never expect to be competitive with?

I don't think it should be EVERY program's goal to beat the ESDs, Jesuits, HPs, Westlakes, etc. of the world. It should be some programs' goal to do that, but not EVERY program, because we don't all pull from huge 6A schools or 11 High schools or whatever.

[LaxLurker]

I mean we crown 1A and 6-man state football championships every year in Texas. They are trying to align "like teams" in division to make them more competitive with less blowouts.

There is a clearly defined metric (school size) that the UIL uses to classify. As for lacrosse, I always find it funny when "D2" teams with 3 NCAA DI commits and a program that has been around for 10+ years crows about winning the DII 'ship when they would be competitive in DI just in the middle of the pack. But THSLL lets them self select because a) momma needs a trophy and b) that's what they "feel" is right.

Blowouts happen. Make your program better instead of playing down.

I don't disagree with you on this, but where do the programs that pull from a school of 1800 kids fit in? Should those teams be expected to compete with the programs that pull from 5,000 to 14,000 kids? If the team pulling from 1800, does a really good job of recruiting, and builds a competitive team in D2 or the B or C Division, should they be EXPECTED to compete with those programs that have a huge advantage when concerning how many kids they have the opportunity to pull from? Are these teams "playing down" in this case? We've seen what happens when we take the D2 champion and force them to move up AFTER they were competitive. Almost every one of those teams has struggled. What the UIL gets right is that they separate teams so the compete against other "Like schools" as much as they can.

Those programs pulling from huge schools/multiple schools have the "opportunity" to bring in huge classes every year. That doesn't mean they do or have the ability to do so. That all depends on their ability to recruit. Forcing a "small school" public school program who is good at recruiting to move up just because they are better at recruiting than the other programs seems unfair to me. Should that team feel ashamed for winning a state championship at their "appropriate level," because they didn't "challenge themselves" and move up to play against programs who they should never expect to be competitive with?

I don't think it should be EVERY program's goal to beat the ESDs, Jesuits, HPs, Westlakes, etc. of the world. It should be some programs' goal to do that, but not EVERY program, because we don't all pull from huge 6A schools or 11 High schools or whatever.

Without seeing all the data and the proposal I'm flying blind. I do think it should be a programs goal to beat HP, ESD etc.

Going off on a tangent, the problem is the "program" cannot be fixed at the HS level and continuing to bifurcate the divisions to do "fix" the problem just causes more problems. The problem is solved at the youth level. How do you get 20 solid freshmen every year? Easy start off with 60 K-2 that have a good experience and keep coming back year after year. Have a parent board that supports ALL the kids and not just the kids in their son's class. Recruit good coaches, pay them and get out of their way. Recruit new board members to pass the baton too. Build a strong relationship with the HS UIL coaches. This all takes time, effort and teamwork. I've been on multiple lacrosse boards and still am. The best decision I made was to pass the baton to the next set of parents, its not easy to give up something you've worked your butt off for but it what sustains these program and allows them to grow.

If every program could matriculate 20 boys every freshman year the level of play would increase and you could have one (or maybe two) division at HS that are competitive. Yes, some teams are going to suck and get blow out...that is life. Either be OK with getting blown out (which is fine, this isn't brain surgery and at the end of the day doesn't really matter) or work to get better.

[buhund]

FYI...the new Division (Class) breakouts are now posted on the THSLL website.