Sensible Gun Safety

[DMac]

Mr. Card enlisted in the Reserve in 2002 and was trained as a petroleum supply specialist, whose work involved shipping and storing fuel; he did not serve on any combat deployments.

I swear I read somewhere that he was reportedly an ex Green Beret. Didn't buy it at the time, needed some solid evidence of that. Another ex-military boy gone mad, must be that petroleum storing and shipping training that turned him into a madman killer.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Mr. Card enlisted in the Reserve in 2002 and was trained as a petroleum supply specialist, whose work involved shipping and storing fuel; he did not serve on any combat deployments.

I swear I read somewhere that he was reportedly an ex Green Beret. Didn't buy it at the time, needed some solid evidence of that. Another ex-military boy gone mad, must be that petroleum storing and shipping training that turned him into a madman killer.

I had heard/read the same thing you did. In today’s society anyone can say anything on the internet and it is taken as truth.

[DMac]

I don’t understand why people like you are pro mass shooting.

This is a really ugly thing to say. No doubt intentionally so but not a word of truth to it, it's highly doubtful that cradle is any more pro mass shooting (assuming you mean of people) than you are. We, collectively, on the other hand sure do seem to be pro mass shooting(s) though as we do virtually nothing (certainly nothing effective...2A, ya know, we love our guns and are willing to have the occasional massacre that comes along with that right) to put an end to it. Lip service and thoughts and prayers hasn't done a damn thing but this is what we continue with.

Was mentioned earlier that it's harder to get an AR15 in NY at a gun show than many other places. I watched my friend's son buy an AR15 at a gun show, got some news for ya, it aint hard at all. One short (didn't take five minutes) phone call, the money exchange, he then walked out with it. This kid has had several run ins with the law, nothing serious but he's paid his lawyer well to get him out of trouble several times. Was a big player in the pot world for many years (buying and selling 30+ pounds at a time, making serious money), somewhat of a shady world with shady characters and plenty of guns. Pretty much always managed to stay one step ahead of the law, still sells pot, much more legally so these days but plenty of black market activity still going on. I would not have sold him an AR15, but those who are doing the screening for us found no problem with his owning one. We need to be doing a whole lot better job with that (obviously).

kramerica is right, hand guns really are a bigger problem than "assault" weapons, the numbers don't lie.

2A, baby!!! Get your gun, be part of the militia, that's who we are.
God bless America!!!

It’s a facetious statement….with a specific context. Do you think an Assault Weapons Ban and other limitations on magazine sizes is a meaningless action? I have no problem with gun ownership. I own one myself. Do you believe that we don’t have a gun problem in this country?

It's a very ugly thing to say, period.
Can't say the AWB and limitations are useless but I certainly wouldn't call them effective. A start, yes, one grain of salt removed from the ocean of assault weapons, long way to go to desalination.
Assault weapons need to be gone after aggressively. Yes, confiscated, taken out of the general population. No one has a need for these (maybe there are exceptions but there needs to be a goddamn good reason for those exceptions). Oh no, here comes the brown shirts, Godwin's Law, 2A, baby, we want our guns....all of them!!
We need better control of guns and who can get one, all of them, period.
Yes, I have one.

[MDlaxfan76]

I think people get confused and overly focused on single aspects of the problem.

Reducing gun violence and suicides by gun requires multifaceted solutions, not just one decision.

For instance, banning assault weapons for home storage needn't mean it's impossible to have access to these weapons in highly regulated, safe gun ranges. Nor, obviously, in warfare.

But there's no need for them to shoot "feral pigs". Other 1-3-shot long guns are plenty sufficient.

Regulating ownership, transfer, storage and usage of other weapons is quite possible, with universal background checks and delays, red flag laws. licensure requirements on regular safety training, safe storage requirements, and even biometric triggers on all new guns.

Significant penalties for flagrant abuse of these rules, serious jail time for any use of a gun in the commission of a crime.

Financial support for gun surrender, safety training, and upgrade to biometric triggers, gun safes, etc.

Separately, a commitment to mental health and wellbeing should be a major priority in our society, just as chronic disease prevention should be elevated dramatically in our health system. They are interrelated issues.

And yeah, decriminalization of drug usage, with big increase in addiction support. That doesn't mean decriminalizing illegal drug traffic, but replacing those sources with medically supported access to inexpensive, regulated alternatives will dramatically reduce the profit potential for drug gangs and associated turf violence, reduce addict crime, reduce incarceration rates and costs, and focus police resources on other crime and safety protection.

Multifaceted.

But sure, banning assault weapons outside of regulated gun ranges is one of the many steps, and specifically addresses the biggest portion of the mass murder rampage problem. Do it.

I worry quite a bit when I find myself agreeing with you. Your idea of limiting use of these rifles to qualified rifle ranges with certified instructors is a great idea The problem is where are these weapons to be stored? These rifles owners will never agree to these weapons being secured off site. It would be a step in the right direction. The most important point is these rifles owners with inexperience be thoroughly educated on safety and how dangerous these weapons are. When I was a young Army trainee we spent a lot of time training on these rifles and learned how they worked inside and out before we ever spent a minute on a rifle range. One thing that stuck in my brain was this... The M16 rifle is lethal out to 300 meters. Most people can't comprehend that. The 5.56 round was designed for only one purpose...to kill people. It is very effective in doing so. We were trained 40 plus years ago to shoot using iron sights. Today you can purchase a laser sight for your rifle where all you need do is look for the red dot and pull the trigger. Technology has made these rifles even more lethal and easy to use. That is great for an infantry soldier, not so great for a homicidal maniac.

To answer your question in red, store them at these licensed gun ranges. We used to call these sorts of places "armories" where the "well-regulated militia" actually stored weapons and ammo, so what I'm saying is make this a licensed business to store the guns safely, each with their own locker, and within a secured building, and then practice with them, appropriately. Private owners can store their own at a fee or simply rent the guns maintained there by the owner. I can see lots of small businesses and/or chains popping up to satisfy the demand for these locations.

Come the 'zombie apocalypse', or a "Red Dawn" scenario, the guns are there within the community, with well trained users. But they can't be transported willy nilly, available on impulse.

On your question earlier, I'm fine with any weapon that does not have a sound purpose of hunting, whether game or varmint, being required to be at such ranges, or, if the personal protection is to be included for home storage, then draw the line at high capacity weapons used in warfare. Err to the safety of the community, though. And regulate how guns are stored, purchased, licensed, used etc. Err to safety.

[cradleandshoot]

The plot thickens a bit - lots of red flags about this suspect's mental stability and access to firearms in the weeks leading up to this shooting
NYS police failed to report after the shooter was admitted to the mental health facility in NY back in July. Have to question the laws in place if they are essentially unenforceable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/28/us/m ... reats.html

"Maine Sheriff Says He Sent Statewide Alert About Gunman Last Month

The sheriff said the gunman had made threats against the Army base where he was assigned, prompting an alert to all law enforcement agencies in the state weeks before the mass shooting.

A sheriff in Maine says he sent an alert to all law enforcement agencies in the state last month after learning that an Army reservist had made threats against his base, a notification that came weeks before the reservist fatally shot 18 people in America’s deadliest mass shooting this year.

Sheriff Joel Merry of Sagadahoc County said he sent the alert sometime in September in an effort to find the reservist, Robert R. Card II, 40, who was said to have made threats regarding the Army Reserve center in Saco, Maine. He said he sent a deputy to Mr. Card’s home but that the deputy did not find him there, prompting the sheriff to send out the notice.

The revelation is the strongest sign yet that law enforcement was aware that Mr. Card was a potential danger before he carried out a rampage at a bowling alley and bar in Lewiston on Wednesday night.

“The guys, from what I know, paid due diligence to this and did attempt to locate Mr. Card and they couldn’t,” Sheriff Merry said in an interview on Saturday night.

The Maine Department of Public Safety, which had led a two-day manhunt for Mr. Card before he was found dead in a trailer at a recycling plant on Friday night, did not respond to requests for comment. The Associated Press first reported on the sheriff’s alert.

Sheriff Merry declined to comment in detail about the reported threats, and it was unclear whether any other departments that received the sheriff’s alert had tried to locate Mr. Card. It was not immediately clear how often such alerts are issued; two law enforcement leaders in Maine said on Saturday that they receive many and did not recall receiving the alert about Mr. Card.

The Army’s public affairs office in the Pentagon did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Saturday night. Mr. Card enlisted in the Reserve in 2002 and was trained as a petroleum supply specialist, whose work involved shipping and storing fuel; he did not serve on any combat deployments.

Earlier on Saturday, the commissioner of the public safety department said that Mr. Card had been paranoid and may have been hearing voices. The commissioner, Michael J. Sauschuck, suggested that Mr. Card had most likely been to the bowling alley and bar before, and may have carried out the attack in part because he falsely believed that “people were talking about him.”

“There’s paranoia, there’s some conspiracy theorist piece,” Mr. Sauschuck said.

During a recent visit to a National Guard training facility outside Peekskill, N.Y., Mr. Card had a run-in with officials and was later evaluated at a mental health facility, according to a senior law enforcement official. Mr. Sauschuck said he had no information to suggest that Mr. Card had ever been forcibly committed for mental health treatment.

Mr. Card had legally purchased several guns, including some days before the attack, according to Jim Ferguson, the special agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ field division in Boston.

In Maine, officers must seek a medical professional’s opinion in order to take weapons away from people who are suffering mental difficulties and are considered a danger to themselves or others. That’s more stringent than some states with so-called red flag laws that allow the police or the public to petition for the temporary removal of a person’s guns.

Following the shootings, Mr. Card fled toward the Androscoggin River, the police said, abandoning his car about a 15-minute drive from the bar that he had just attacked. A two-day manhunt followed, with the state issuing a shelter-in-place order affecting thousands of residents.

During that time, the police twice searched a recycling plant where Mr. Card had previously worked, near where he abandoned his car. But they did not realize that a dirt lot across the street that held dozens of trailers was part of the property. When they searched the trailers, they found him inside one, dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

In addition to the 18 people killed, 13 were wounded. Three remain in critical condition."

Mr Card should have spent the first round on himself. His family tried to get him help but the powers that be ignored them. While I'm no expert on mental health this person was crying out for help. Hopefully someday people will listen to those folks in need of help.

[cradleandshoot]

I think people get confused and overly focused on single aspects of the problem.

Reducing gun violence and suicides by gun requires multifaceted solutions, not just one decision.

For instance, banning assault weapons for home storage needn't mean it's impossible to have access to these weapons in highly regulated, safe gun ranges. Nor, obviously, in warfare.

But there's no need for them to shoot "feral pigs". Other 1-3-shot long guns are plenty sufficient.

Regulating ownership, transfer, storage and usage of other weapons is quite possible, with universal background checks and delays, red flag laws. licensure requirements on regular safety training, safe storage requirements, and even biometric triggers on all new guns.

Significant penalties for flagrant abuse of these rules, serious jail time for any use of a gun in the commission of a crime.

Financial support for gun surrender, safety training, and upgrade to biometric triggers, gun safes, etc.

Separately, a commitment to mental health and wellbeing should be a major priority in our society, just as chronic disease prevention should be elevated dramatically in our health system. They are interrelated issues.

And yeah, decriminalization of drug usage, with big increase in addiction support. That doesn't mean decriminalizing illegal drug traffic, but replacing those sources with medically supported access to inexpensive, regulated alternatives will dramatically reduce the profit potential for drug gangs and associated turf violence, reduce addict crime, reduce incarceration rates and costs, and focus police resources on other crime and safety protection.

Multifaceted.

But sure, banning assault weapons outside of regulated gun ranges is one of the many steps, and specifically addresses the biggest portion of the mass murder rampage problem. Do it.

I worry quite a bit when I find myself agreeing with you. Your idea of limiting use of these rifles to qualified rifle ranges with certified instructors is a great idea The problem is where are these weapons to be stored? These rifles owners will never agree to these weapons being secured off site. It would be a step in the right direction. The most important point is these rifles owners with inexperience be thoroughly educated on safety and how dangerous these weapons are. When I was a young Army trainee we spent a lot of time training on these rifles and learned how they worked inside and out before we ever spent a minute on a rifle range. One thing that stuck in my brain was this... The M16 rifle is lethal out to 300 meters. Most people can't comprehend that. The 5.56 round was designed for only one purpose...to kill people. It is very effective in doing so. We were trained 40 plus years ago to shoot using iron sights. Today you can purchase a laser sight for your rifle where all you need do is look for the red dot and pull the trigger. Technology has made these rifles even more lethal and easy to use. That is great for an infantry soldier, not so great for a homicidal maniac.

To answer your question in red, store them at these licensed gun ranges. We used to call these sorts of places "armories" where the "well-regulated militia" actually stored weapons and ammo, so what I'm saying is make this a licensed business to store the guns safely, each with their own locker, and within a secured building, and then practice with them, appropriately. Private owners can store their own at a fee or simply rent the guns maintained there by the owner. I can see lots of small businesses and/or chains popping up to satisfy the demand for these locations.

Come the 'zombie apocalypse', or a "Red Dawn" scenario, the guns are there within the community, with well trained users. But they can't be transported willy nilly, available on impulse.

On your question earlier, I'm fine with any weapon that does not have a sound purpose of hunting, whether game or varmint, being required to be at such ranges, or, if the personal protection is to be included for home storage, then draw the line at high capacity weapons used in warfare. Err to the safety of the community, though. And regulate how guns are stored, purchased, licensed, used etc. Err to safety.

I understand an agree with your basic point. Both of my sons own these weapons. They both secure them in state of the art gun safes that use fingerprint technology. Both of my sons would never agree to storing their weapons off site. My oldest son is federal law enforcement so his rifles are not an issue. My youngest son likes his rifle because he likes to shoot. I have STRONGLY advised my son to get rid of this rifle ASAP. If these weapons are banned I would applause the attempt. There is no way these folks will give up their rifles.

[PizzaSnake]

The problem is I value all human life equally. A murder is a murder.

I am all for throwing the book at anyone who misuses guns. Any kind.

If you value all life, then why do you argue against banning the AR15s that kill people in mass shootings.

Instead, since you don't give a shirt about those people, you deflect by saying what about all the black kids in the hood getting shot with handguns.

So, yeah, we should try to save lives in the hood. But it is insincere to say we can't address the mess from AR15s because of inner city handguns.

And by the way, the AR15 problem is just super easy to solve. Been solved in every other civilized country. But you old bubbas like your toys too much to give them up to save some innocents. GFY dude.

Well that escalated quickly.

I must have hit a nerve.

I'm not sure who you are confusing me with, but I am not against an ar15 ban. I don't love ar15s. Or handguns.

But I am smart enough to know that banning the ar15 won't solve the problem. It never does. It might stem the tide until
something else comes along. [Insert new favorite gun for shooters to use.]

Still waiting for you to be more sincere and give a rats a55 about handguns and all the senseless deaths they cause.

I guess the problem was expecting some level of common sense or empathy on your part. I posted the data above. It's quite easy to see what guns are killing the most people. And ripping apart families. Year. After. Year. Decade. After. Decade.

You do understand what all this killing and death is doing to suburban and urban life and communities, right? Or do you just care about the deaths of what you call "innocents?"

It’s not about observing the symptoms (death by gun) but the diagnosis isn’t the same for each. Like with Covid where some were medically better off without the vaccine so with.

If you really think about it, it’s disingenuous to present a side focused on managing/mitigating a specific problem as not rewriting death or murder equally because the prescription isn’t to treat both the same.

So starting out with “I treat all people as equal…”, clearly attempting to present the dichotomy with the other person not treating all life as equal, is an attempt to win rather than solve anything.

Yes, exactly.

Certain people around here only post about "AR15" murders. It's their favorite call to action. They cry about fixing this problem that has occurred in the past decade or so, ignoring the major elephant in the room of handguns and violent crime killing thousands of young men each year for the past 4-5 decades.

And the later is happening at a rate much greater than these mass shootings. And it has some of the worst trickle-down effects on US society and culture. Forget banning rifles. Ban handguns. And watch as American society improves and cities may actually become places where families can flourish again.

You signing up for banning handguns? That’s your position? Ban handguns??

I would 100% support that.

I really have no use for them. And I've seen the devastation they can cause. I haven't been bear, alligator, or boar hunting and ever had the need for one. I don't sell drugs. I don't transport large sums of money for business.

BUT- banning a weapon is dumb. Here's why- People with bad intentions are gonna find the weapons with the highest capacity to do harm. So if you ban ARs, something else will pop up and become popular. My first, real-easy answer to the mass shootings and people wanting to ban a specific weapons is to simply ban all magazines/tubes that hold over 6 rds on any weapon larger than .22 cal. You should be able to do all your "work" with 6 rds or less. If not, you have bad intentions, or are just a "spammer," as the kids say.

Personally, I'm an effing surgeon with a shotgun.

Other than a weapon of war ban, I have never suggested a weapons ban.

I believe that is the express opinion of another poster who frequents this forum. This poster as adamantly suggested these AR 15 type weapons be totally banned. Your reference to handguns has been addressed rather effectively in NYS. If you want to purchase ANY handgun you will go through a background check that can take as long as a year. Misdemeanor offenses on your record can chitcan your application. The Monroe County Sheriffs office does an extensive background check, you are fingerprinted your photo is taken and the end results are sent to a judge that will either grant you a permit or deny you. If you know of a more effective system for issuing pistol permits I'm all ears. The weapons of war argument can easily become very problematic. How do you define a weapon of war? The US Army I served in has a very wide variety of weapons that were effective in different scenarios. That venerable Winchester 12 gauge pump is equally as effective for hunting deer as it is for putting down suppressive fire.

I have no problem with the previous assault weapons bans. I don’t understand why people like you are pro mass shooting.

When have I ever said I was pro mass shootings?? Banning a weapon that has been in mass production and readily available to the general public for many decades. If the powers that be want to ban them I could care less. IMO banning them outright would create a chitstorm that would be dumped in the laps of law enforcement. If a deranged person with murderous intentions is denied access to weapon A there is always option B. The implication I'm getting from some of you folks is denying one type of weapon will magically prevent prevent mass killings. I pointed out the carnage that can be done with a 6 round pump shotgun loaded with buckshot. At point blank range 1 round will literally blow a person in half. I'm just dealing in the reality that someone hell bent on killing a lot of people quickly will find the weapon for the job. Those weapons will always be out there.

cradle, you've said numerous times that it will be a problem for law enforcement if there's a ban on assault weapons. Yes, that's correct as some people will not want to turn them in, even with a financial incentive to do so...and yet many will.

And as I've said, I'd be fine with people being able to store and use their weapons at a well regulated gun range...but only there. Some people will opt for that.

And yet some people will still not want to do so...I'd note that law enforcement nearly uniformly, across all police orgs, unions, chiefs, etc, across the country, advocate for such a ban...they want this problem. They want to focus their resources on people who insist on the capacity to do great harm to others, fast. Including to themselves as officers.

Yes, it will not 100% eliminate the issue of murder, including potential large scale murder. But note, a shotgun with its plug removed and now with 6 shot capacity (why are they made with this 6 shot capacity if all hunting licenses require the plug???) still needs to be reloaded after those shots are expended, and that is not a fast process and I'm pretty facile with such reload. And the effectiveness is only at pretty close range, much less than these assault weapons, so escape is far more possible. Sure, in a trench or other very close quarters, brutal results, but in any wider setting, not so much.

None of this obviates the need to address other related gun access and crime.

Note, this all needs to be done at a national level, as state by state is insufficient. Too easy for criminals to get guns in nearby states.

I’ll tell you what has proven to be a challenge for law enforcement: responding to people armed with AR-15 style rifles and multi-round clips.

The number of and breadth of engagement of law enforcement for Robert Card was ridiculous. Imagine if there had been some other event needing a response. The current staffing and resourcing of law enforcement is manifestly inadequate to provide services coincident with such increasingly common events.

So, if nothing else, the US taxpayer has indicated they are unwilling to pay for this level of staffing and service. Some want to “roll their own” through purchase and retention of personal firearms. Now, what can go wrong with that? Fearful, largely older white makes with diminished mental faculties making decisions like this? I’d rather NOT live near them; I’d rather pay more in taxes to get a regulated, “policed” service from the government.


“I like to pay taxes. With them, I buy civilization.”
— Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I don’t understand why people like you are pro mass shooting.

This is a really ugly thing to say. No doubt intentionally so but not a word of truth to it, it's highly doubtful that cradle is any more pro mass shooting (assuming you mean of people) than you are. We, collectively, on the other hand sure do seem to be pro mass shooting(s) though as we do virtually nothing (certainly nothing effective...2A, ya know, we love our guns and are willing to have the occasional massacre that comes along with that right) to put an end to it. Lip service and thoughts and prayers hasn't done a damn thing but this is what we continue with.

Was mentioned earlier that it's harder to get an AR15 in NY at a gun show than many other places. I watched my friend's son buy an AR15 at a gun show, got some news for ya, it aint hard at all. One short (didn't take five minutes) phone call, the money exchange, he then walked out with it. This kid has had several run ins with the law, nothing serious but he's paid his lawyer well to get him out of trouble several times. Was a big player in the pot world for many years (buying and selling 30+ pounds at a time, making serious money), somewhat of a shady world with shady characters and plenty of guns. Pretty much always managed to stay one step ahead of the law, still sells pot, much more legally so these days but plenty of black market activity still going on. I would not have sold him an AR15, but those who are doing the screening for us found no problem with his owning one. We need to be doing a whole lot better job with that (obviously).

kramerica is right, hand guns really are a bigger problem than "assault" weapons, the numbers don't lie.

2A, baby!!! Get your gun, be part of the militia, that's who we are.
God bless America!!!

It’s a facetious statement….with a specific context. Do you think an Assault Weapons Ban and other limitations on magazine sizes is a meaningless action? I have no problem with gun ownership. I own one myself. Do you believe that we don’t have a gun problem in this country?

It's a very ugly thing to say, period.
Can't say the AWB and limitations are useless but I certainly wouldn't call them effective. A start, yes, one grain of salt removed from the ocean of assault weapons, long way to go to desalination.
Assault weapons need to be gone after aggressively. Yes, confiscated, taken out of the general population. No one has a need for these (maybe there are exceptions but there needs to be a goddamn good reason for those exceptions). Oh no, here comes the brown shirts, Godwin's Law, 2A, baby, we want our guns....all of them!!
We need better control of guns and who can get one, all of them, period.
Yes, I have one.

It is.

[Kismet]

As previously mentioned, it is just too damn easy to acquire a semi-automatic weapon in this country. This case specifically should tell you nothing else that if you have mental issues firearm acquisition is not a problem (the Maine nut acquired two after he served two weeks in an mental health facility). As there are many gun owners here, please answer these questions -
Why do people need one even legally?
You wouldn't shoot game with one as there would be little meat left.
As a self defense weapon, there are many better alternatives.
Target shooting? Try a video game or join a shooting club and lock up your weapon there after shooting.

The idea that in this country we cannot even support universal background checks or a ban on bump stocks which converts these legal weapons into illegal machine guns. Remember the Las Vegas nutjob who used one to kill almost 60 people in a matter of a few minutes. BTW the performer onstage at the time had to run for his life but now promotes gun culture through his music.

As a society and civilization, its indicative that we have lost of our collective minds.

[PizzaSnake]

As previously mentioned, it is just too damn easy to acquire a semi-automatic weapon in this country. This case specifically should tell you nothing else that if you have mental issues firearm acquisition is not a problem (the Maine nut acquired two after he served two weeks in an mental health facility). As there are many gun owners here, please answer these questions -
Why do people need one even legally?
You wouldn't shoot game with one as there would be little meat left.
As a self defense weapon, there are many better alternatives.
Target shooting? Try a video game or join a shooting club and lock up your weapon there after shooting.

The idea that in this country we cannot even support universal background checks or a ban on bump stocks which converts these legal weapons into illegal machine guns. Remember the Las Vegas nutjob who used one to kill almost 60 people in a matter of a few minutes. BTW the performer onstage at the time had to run for his life but now promotes gun culture through his music.

As a society and civilization, its indicative that we have lost of our collective minds.

“The idea that in this country we cannot even support universal background checks or a ban on bump stocks which converts these legal weapons into illegal machine guns.”

How about the “switch” for semi-auto handguns?

“Law enforcement across the country is working to stop a disturbing, rising trend where criminals are using small, illegal devices to alter the ability of a handgun, turning it into a fully automatic weapon.”

https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/law ... tches/amp/

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.kff.org/mental-health/press ... tries/amp/

[Typical Lax Dad]

We are the 32nd deadliest country on the planet when it comes to hun deaths. Canada is 119. They must not have crazy people.

[Kismet]

We are the 32nd deadliest country on the planet when it comes to hun deaths. Canada is 119. They must not have crazy people.

EVERY country has issues with mental health. Only in this country where all you need to acquire a firearm is a pulse and payment and act.

[SCLaxAttack]

I think people get confused and overly focused on single aspects of the problem.

Reducing gun violence and suicides by gun requires multifaceted solutions, not just one decision.

For instance, banning assault weapons for home storage needn't mean it's impossible to have access to these weapons in highly regulated, safe gun ranges. Nor, obviously, in warfare.

But there's no need for them to shoot "feral pigs". Other 1-3-shot long guns are plenty sufficient.

Regulating ownership, transfer, storage and usage of other weapons is quite possible, with universal background checks and delays, red flag laws. licensure requirements on regular safety training, safe storage requirements, and even biometric triggers on all new guns.

Significant penalties for flagrant abuse of these rules, serious jail time for any use of a gun in the commission of a crime.

Financial support for gun surrender, safety training, and upgrade to biometric triggers, gun safes, etc.

Separately, a commitment to mental health and wellbeing should be a major priority in our society, just as chronic disease prevention should be elevated dramatically in our health system. They are interrelated issues.

And yeah, decriminalization of drug usage, with big increase in addiction support. That doesn't mean decriminalizing illegal drug traffic, but replacing those sources with medically supported access to inexpensive, regulated alternatives will dramatically reduce the profit potential for drug gangs and associated turf violence, reduce addict crime, reduce incarceration rates and costs, and focus police resources on other crime and safety protection.

Multifaceted.

But sure, banning assault weapons outside of regulated gun ranges is one of the many steps, and specifically addresses the biggest portion of the mass murder rampage problem. Do it.

I worry quite a bit when I find myself agreeing with you. Your idea of limiting use of these rifles to qualified rifle ranges with certified instructors is a great idea The problem is where are these weapons to be stored? These rifles owners will never agree to these weapons being secured off site. It would be a step in the right direction. The most important point is these rifles owners with inexperience be thoroughly educated on safety and how dangerous these weapons are. When I was a young Army trainee we spent a lot of time training on these rifles and learned how they worked inside and out before we ever spent a minute on a rifle range. One thing that stuck in my brain was this... The M16 rifle is lethal out to 300 meters. Most people can't comprehend that. The 5.56 round was designed for only one purpose...to kill people. It is very effective in doing so. We were trained 40 plus years ago to shoot using iron sights. Today you can purchase a laser sight for your rifle where all you need do is look for the red dot and pull the trigger. Technology has made these rifles even more lethal and easy to use. That is great for an infantry soldier, not so great for a homicidal maniac.

To answer your question in red, store them at these licensed gun ranges. We used to call these sorts of places "armories" where the "well-regulated militia" actually stored weapons and ammo, so what I'm saying is make this a licensed business to store the guns safely, each with their own locker, and within a secured building, and then practice with them, appropriately. Private owners can store their own at a fee or simply rent the guns maintained there by the owner. I can see lots of small businesses and/or chains popping up to satisfy the demand for these locations.

Come the 'zombie apocalypse', or a "Red Dawn" scenario, the guns are there within the community, with well trained users. But they can't be transported willy nilly, available on impulse.

On your question earlier, I'm fine with any weapon that does not have a sound purpose of hunting, whether game or varmint, being required to be at such ranges, or, if the personal protection is to be included for home storage, then draw the line at high capacity weapons used in warfare. Err to the safety of the community, though. And regulate how guns are stored, purchased, licensed, used etc. Err to safety.

So as not to have to sell certain firearms and accessories legal in AZ but not in NJ, when my son moved he left certain firearms and accessories in the custody of a gun store. Evidently pretty common in Arizona. He still has the hope that some day he'll move back to a more lenient state and be able to use the items not allowed in NJ. Pretty pricey, but here's one: https://caswells.com/range-info/firearm-storage/

[ggait]

We are the 32nd deadliest country on the planet when it comes to hun deaths. Canada is 119. They must not have crazy people.

I hear Canada does not have crazy people, TVs or video games.

It ain’t the guns. It is a problem of the human heart. So apparently no human heart problems in Canada.

Thoughts and prayers!

[PizzaSnake]

We are the 32nd deadliest country on the planet when it comes to hun deaths. Canada is 119. They must not have crazy people.

I hear Canada does not have crazy people, TVs or video games.

It ain’t the guns. It is a problem of the human heart. So apparently no human heart problems in Canada.

Thoughts and prayers!

[Typical Lax Dad]

We are the 32nd deadliest country on the planet when it comes to hun deaths. Canada is 119. They must not have crazy people.

I hear Canada does not have crazy people, TVs or video games.

It ain’t the guns. It is a problem of the human heart. So apparently no human heart problems in Canada.

Thoughts and prayers!

People with mental problems kill….guns don’t. Drugs aren’t bad….it’s people doing drugs is the problem. Make Crack and Fentanyl Legal!!

[DMac]

Think that pretty much covers it all.
Discussion to be repeated after the next one.
Good news is, the militia is well armed. 2A, baby.
Can't have any lawn darts though.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Think that pretty much covers it all.
Discussion to be repeated after the next one.
Good news is, the militia is well armed. 2A, baby.
Can't have any lawn darts though.

Crack and Fentanyl can’t smoke itself!!

[PizzaSnake]

Think that pretty much covers it all.
Discussion to be repeated after the next one.
Good news is, the militia is well armed. 2A, baby.
Can't have any lawn darts though.

Those things were a trip.