ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:06 am
If there’s money to be made, I see no reason to doubt the damaged areas will be rebuilt. Are there examples where redevelopment after an disaster was curtailed or limited?
I wonder whether it's time to attach strings on federal support?
Relocation rather than rebuild?
Resilient infrastructure?
Flood mitigation, wetlands absorption etc?
There are sound examples of developments that are resilient and energy independent, including in Florida.
Support relocation to such and not those which are doomed for further catastrophe?
Narrator is a little tiresome, but this offers a good explanation for why people live where they do in CONUS. Hint: it's the water, stupid...
Oh, and the irony of Lake Powell being named after a scientist who advised against the current political and governmental structures for "West" is breathtaking. Oh, and "line of aridity" is moving eastward...
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:57 am
Narrator is a little tiresome, but this offers a good explanation for why people live where they do in CONUS. Hint: it's the water, stupid...
Oh, and the irony of Lake Powell being named after a scientist who advised against the current political and governmental structures for "West" is breathtaking. Oh, and "line of aridity" is moving eastward...
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:57 am
Narrator is a little tiresome, but this offers a good explanation for why people live where they do in CONUS. Hint: it's the water, stupid...
Oh, and the irony of Lake Powell being named after a scientist who advised against the current political and governmental structures for "West" is breathtaking. Oh, and "line of aridity" is moving eastward...
It supports my consistent recommendation that the Golden State Empire … uh, California … immediately launch a “special military operation” to secure virtually all of the Colorado River’s fresh water for the Imperial Province of Southern California.
I’m doing my part for water conservation by installing drip irrigation in my yard and forgoing sprinkling on weekends as well as limiting how much time the waterfalls run in my swimming pool.
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:57 am
Narrator is a little tiresome, but this offers a good explanation for why people live where they do in CONUS. Hint: it's the water, stupid...
Oh, and the irony of Lake Powell being named after a scientist who advised against the current political and governmental structures for "West" is breathtaking. Oh, and "line of aridity" is moving eastward...
very, very interesting...narrator didn't say it explicitly, but clearly Powell understood that the economics of "the tragedy of the commons" applies to states as well as private actors.
Powell proposed an interesting solution, but it's not surprising that the incumbent political actors were unwilling to adjust borders.
Seems to me that this realization of the "tragedy of the commons" supports complete federalization of water management, at this point.
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:57 am
Narrator is a little tiresome, but this offers a good explanation for why people live where they do in CONUS. Hint: it's the water, stupid...
Oh, and the irony of Lake Powell being named after a scientist who advised against the current political and governmental structures for "West" is breathtaking. Oh, and "line of aridity" is moving eastward...
It supports my consistent recommendation that the Golden State Empire … uh, California … immediately launch a “special military operation” to secure virtually all of the Colorado River’s fresh water for the Imperial Province of Southern California.
I’m doing my part for water conservation by installing drip irrigation in my yard and forgoing sprinkling on weekends as well as limiting how much time the waterfalls run in my swimming pool.
DocBarrister
That is actually the premise of this book. Not a happy story...more of a Brothers Grimm fairy tale than Disney.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:59 am
Flood Insurance Fell in Florida Before Hurricane Ian Struck
Only a small number of residences in two of state’s hardest-hit inland counties have coverage
By Leslie ScismFollow
and Cameron McWhirterFollow
Updated Oct. 1, 2022 1:08 pm ET
Only a small number of residences in two of Florida’s hardest-hit inland counties are covered by flood insurance. The percentage of protected homes is higher in coastal areas that sustained the most damage, but still, is over 50% in just one of the affected counties, according to an analysis by Neptune Flood, a private-sector flood-insurance provider.
In all locations pummeled by Ian, the percentage of homes covered by flood policies is down from five years ago.
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The widespread lack of flood insurance will force many people to seek federal disaster assistance in the form of grants and loans. This will slow efforts to rebuild as people patch together funds. That is what happened after extensive flooding in Houston from Hurricane Harvey in 2017.
Flood coverage isn’t part of a standard homeowner’s policy. Flooding has emerged in recent years as a more serious risk after storms such as Harvey and Sandy, which dumped record amounts of rain on the Northeast in 2012. Rising temperatures appear to be a factor. Warmer air holds more moisture and warmer oceans give storms more energy.
The 15 inches of rain that fell at the Sanford Orlando International Airport in Seminole was 50% higher than the previous record of 10 inches in 24 hours set in 1992, according to the National Weather Service. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis called Ian “basically, a 500-year flood event.”
Flooding, as seen in Orlando, has emerged as a more serious risk with storms like Harvey and Sandy dumping record rains.Photo: PHOTO: Gerardo Mora/Getty Images
When Amber Thorne woke up Thursday in Sanford in Seminole County, she was stunned to find that a creek overflowed and flooded her yard. She doesn’t have flood insurance for her two-bedroom house. “I’m regretting not having it,” she said.
About 97% of residences in Seminole County and 98% in Orange County, home to Orlando, don’t have flood insurance, according to Neptune. Neptune Chief Executive Trevor Burgess said that based on policies his company sells statewide, in general about a third of the residential properties in Florida’s inland counties are identified on government maps as at high risk of flooding. That compares with 85% for many coastal counties.
Risk-modeler Karen Clark & Co. on Friday estimated that the privately insured loss from Hurricane Ian would be close to $63 billion, including wind, storm surge and inland flood damages, while total economic damage will be well over $100 billion, including uninsured properties, damage to infrastructure and cleanup costs.
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Ian’s landfall was outside Fort Myers in Lee County, some 150 miles from Ms. Thorne’s property. Some of the worst storm surge damage occurred in Lee, where about 28% of housing units are covered by flood policies, Neptune’s analysis shows.
Residential flood-insurance policies relative to housing units
In nearby Charlotte County and Collier County, home to Naples, 31% and 41% of homes, respectively, have flood insurance. Monroe County, at the bottom of Florida, has one of the state’s highest take-up rates, at 53%.
The U.S. government’s National Flood Insurance Program, managed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, is by far the biggest seller of the policies. Private-sector options are becoming more available.
Across Florida over the past five years, the portion of homes covered by flood policies has declined, to 15.4% in August from 17.8% in 2017.
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Insurance agents and executives attribute some of the decline over the past year to rising inflation generally and double-digit increases in Florida homeowners policies. Another factor is price increases for federal flood insurance for many homes, to more accurately reflect the true flooding risk. Some rates will jump from hundreds of dollars annually to thousands of dollars, though most increases are capped at 18% a year.
Lenders require flood coverage for borrowers who live in designated high-risk zones.
People in Florida woke up to widespread destruction and flooding on Thursday after Hurricane Ian made landfall a day earlier. Ian had weakened to a tropical storm, but strengthened back into a hurricane as it moved north toward Georgia and the Carolinas. Photo: Giorgio Viera/AFP/Getty Images
Another reason for declining uptake in recent years in Florida is that a large number of people moving to the state have paid cash for their homes. “No mortgage, no requirement,” said Neptune’s Mr. Burgess.
“Homeowners think if they are away from the ocean or a river they can’t flood,” which is wrong, Mr. Burgess said. In fact, about a fifth of Neptune’s claims over the past five years have been in supposedly lower-risk zones, he said.
In its analysis, Neptune used government residential flood-insurance data along with its own issuance figures, and contrasted them against U.S. Census housing data. Other private-sector insurers, with generally small totals, aren’t reflected in the tallies.
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SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS
How do you think Hurricane Ian will change the rates of insurance coverage in Florida? Join the conversation below.
Harrison Froid, an agent in Pinellas County in the Tampa area for Goosehead Insurance, said most clients buying homes decline the purchase of flood coverage. If not required by their lender, “they say, ‘I’ll circle back to you after closing,’ ” Mr. Froid said, and generally don’t.
Michael Bristol, an engineer who lives with his wife in a double-wide mobile home on 10 acres with a horse stable in Seminole County, spent Thursday afternoon cleaning up branches and other debris from their sodden yard. A creek had overflowed, and the road was impassable near the couple’s property. Ditches churned with water.
Mr. Bristol says the property escaped serious damage. He had skipped flood insurance as “just too cost prohibitive,” and he doesn’t see that changing. He said his plan is to “keep a decent amount in savings and hope for the best…You know, fingers crossed.”
Coverage of the storm and its aftermath, selected by the editors
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Been a long time coming. I mentioned a few years ago that insurance companies understand the risk of climate change and increased premiums will reflect it…..but Al Gore can make money off of it.
And because markets, unlike individual actors (say governments) put prices on risk despite what the folks who refuse to believe that a carbon market could work in the allocation of resources in the world.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:06 am
If there’s money to be made, I see no reason to doubt the damaged areas will be rebuilt. Are there examples where redevelopment after an disaster was curtailed or limited?
In this case given the Miami condo collapse and general regulatory changes since Fr Myers was built up I could see some limitation coming especially when that is a local regulatory convention and not state. As discussed insurers could force discipline in the rebuild as well through price.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:52 am
Now had they voted for the first bill of close to 60bn, you'd then throw it in their face that they "are making govt' bigger", rather than patting them on the back for fiscal responsibility.
You're d*mn right I would. You don't seem to get how it works. They should vote down ALL Federal spending bills, and tell America to get by with the current levels AT A MINIMUM.
But you're so used to them saying one thing and doing another, you don't even notice they're playing you anymore.
What they are SUPPOSED to do is: "here's a bill to help Florida out. In return, here are the cuts to spending in Farm Bill Subsidies. Oh, and we cut defense spending, too, because we got out of Afghanistan, so we're spending a tiny amount of that savings on the people of Florida".
What do they REALLY do? Vote for more spending for the sh*t that their base gets, and vote no on stuff that "someone else" gets. Oh, and I forgot that after the explode spending, they cut taxes to guarantee long term inflation......and borrow money to do it.
It's the party of selfish hypocrites. Stop making the Federal Government bigger, and vote your alleged values. Otherwise? What the heck would I vote for your team for at the national level, YA?
You don't get to complain about the Dems spending money. You see: the Dems are FOR Big Government, remember? So pointing at the Dems when they make government bigger makes ZERO sense. "The Dems spend money" isn't a "gotcha". They're SUPPOSED to do that.
Your team is supposed to make government smaller. And they haven't done that----not even one single year-----since WWII ended, and the parties were entirely different.
Wake me up when your new POTUS DeSantis cuts spending. Trump increased spending by 66%, and you're pretending like DeSantis' vote was a swell example of Republicans being frugal.
ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:06 am
If there’s money to be made, I see no reason to doubt the damaged areas will be rebuilt. Are there examples where redevelopment after an disaster was curtailed or limited?
I wonder whether it's time to attach strings on federal support?
Relocation rather than rebuild?
Resilient infrastructure?
Flood mitigation, wetlands absorption etc?
There are sound examples of developments that are resilient and energy independent, including in Florida.
Support relocation to such and not those which are doomed for further catastrophe?
Send them all the Sebring, Ocala and the Villages!
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:06 am
If there’s money to be made, I see no reason to doubt the damaged areas will be rebuilt. Are there examples where redevelopment after an disaster was curtailed or limited?
I wonder whether it's time to attach strings on federal support?
Relocation rather than rebuild?
Resilient infrastructure?
Flood mitigation, wetlands absorption etc?
There are sound examples of developments that are resilient and energy independent, including in Florida.
Support relocation to such and not those which are doomed for further catastrophe?
Send them all the Sebring, Ocala and the Villages!
tell them they are going to have housing, food and jobs when they arrive….then drop them off at the country club and film it!!
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:52 am
Now had they voted for the first bill of close to 60bn, you'd then throw it in their face that they "are making govt' bigger", rather than patting them on the back for fiscal responsibility.
You're d*mn right I would. You don't seem to get how it works. They should vote down ALL Federal spending bills, and tell America to get by with the current levels AT A MINIMUM.
But you're so used to them saying one thing and doing another, you don't even notice they're playing you anymore.
What they are SUPPOSED to do is: "here's a bill to help Florida out. In return, here are the cuts to spending in Farm Bill Subsidies. Oh, and we cut defense spending, too, because we got out of Afghanistan, so we're spending a tiny amount of that savings on the people of Florida".
What do they REALLY do? Vote for more spending for the sh*t that their base gets, and vote no on stuff that "someone else" gets. Oh, and I forgot that after the explode spending, they cut taxes to guarantee long term inflation......and borrow money to do it.
It's the party of selfish hypocrites. Stop making the Federal Government bigger, and vote your alleged values. Otherwise? What the heck would I vote for your team for at the national level, YA?
You don't get to complain about the Dems spending money. You see: the Dems are FOR Big Government, remember? So pointing at the Dems when they make government bigger makes ZERO sense. "The Dems spend money" isn't a "gotcha". They're SUPPOSED to do that.
Your team is supposed to make government smaller. And they haven't done that----not even one single year-----since WWII ended, and the parties were entirely different.
Wake me up when your new POTUS DeSantis cuts spending. Trump increased spending by 66%, and you're pretending like DeSantis' vote was a swell example of Republicans being frugal.
Seems like you may be stuck in the pre 1940's, if you think things are ever going to change. Might be time for you to take off the broken record you keep repeating and move to something in this century. Once people get the taste of other peoples money, they ain't going back my friend.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:06 am
If there’s money to be made, I see no reason to doubt the damaged areas will be rebuilt. Are there examples where redevelopment after an disaster was curtailed or limited?
I wonder whether it's time to attach strings on federal support?
Relocation rather than rebuild?
Resilient infrastructure?
Flood mitigation, wetlands absorption etc?
There are sound examples of developments that are resilient and energy independent, including in Florida.
Support relocation to such and not those which are doomed for further catastrophe?
Send them all the Sebring, Ocala and the Villages!
tell them they are going to have housing, food and jobs when they arrive….then drop them off at the country club and film it!!
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:06 am
If there’s money to be made, I see no reason to doubt the damaged areas will be rebuilt. Are there examples where redevelopment after an disaster was curtailed or limited?
I wonder whether it's time to attach strings on federal support?
Relocation rather than rebuild?
Resilient infrastructure?
Flood mitigation, wetlands absorption etc?
There are sound examples of developments that are resilient and energy independent, including in Florida.
Support relocation to such and not those which are doomed for further catastrophe?
Send them all the Sebring, Ocala and the Villages!
tell them they are going to have housing, food and jobs when they arrive….then drop them off at the country club and film it!!
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:52 am
Now had they voted for the first bill of close to 60bn, you'd then throw it in their face that they "are making govt' bigger", rather than patting them on the back for fiscal responsibility.
You're d*mn right I would. You don't seem to get how it works. They should vote down ALL Federal spending bills, and tell America to get by with the current levels AT A MINIMUM.
But you're so used to them saying one thing and doing another, you don't even notice they're playing you anymore.
What they are SUPPOSED to do is: "here's a bill to help Florida out. In return, here are the cuts to spending in Farm Bill Subsidies. Oh, and we cut defense spending, too, because we got out of Afghanistan, so we're spending a tiny amount of that savings on the people of Florida".
What do they REALLY do? Vote for more spending for the sh*t that their base gets, and vote no on stuff that "someone else" gets. Oh, and I forgot that after the explode spending, they cut taxes to guarantee long term inflation......and borrow money to do it.
It's the party of selfish hypocrites. Stop making the Federal Government bigger, and vote your alleged values. Otherwise? What the heck would I vote for your team for at the national level, YA?
You don't get to complain about the Dems spending money. You see: the Dems are FOR Big Government, remember? So pointing at the Dems when they make government bigger makes ZERO sense. "The Dems spend money" isn't a "gotcha". They're SUPPOSED to do that.
Your team is supposed to make government smaller. And they haven't done that----not even one single year-----since WWII ended, and the parties were entirely different.
Wake me up when your new POTUS DeSantis cuts spending. Trump increased spending by 66%, and you're pretending like DeSantis' vote was a swell example of Republicans being frugal.
Seems like you may be stuck in the pre 1940's, if you think things are ever going to change. Might be time for you to take off the broken record you keep repeating and move to something in this century. Once people get the taste of other peoples money, they ain't going back my friend.
mmm, seems to me that he's quite focused on the BS being spewed in the here and now.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:52 am
Now had they voted for the first bill of close to 60bn, you'd then throw it in their face that they "are making govt' bigger", rather than patting them on the back for fiscal responsibility.
You're d*mn right I would. You don't seem to get how it works. They should vote down ALL Federal spending bills, and tell America to get by with the current levels AT A MINIMUM.
But you're so used to them saying one thing and doing another, you don't even notice they're playing you anymore.
What they are SUPPOSED to do is: "here's a bill to help Florida out. In return, here are the cuts to spending in Farm Bill Subsidies. Oh, and we cut defense spending, too, because we got out of Afghanistan, so we're spending a tiny amount of that savings on the people of Florida".
What do they REALLY do? Vote for more spending for the sh*t that their base gets, and vote no on stuff that "someone else" gets. Oh, and I forgot that after the explode spending, they cut taxes to guarantee long term inflation......and borrow money to do it.
It's the party of selfish hypocrites. Stop making the Federal Government bigger, and vote your alleged values. Otherwise? What the heck would I vote for your team for at the national level, YA?
You don't get to complain about the Dems spending money. You see: the Dems are FOR Big Government, remember? So pointing at the Dems when they make government bigger makes ZERO sense. "The Dems spend money" isn't a "gotcha". They're SUPPOSED to do that.
Your team is supposed to make government smaller. And they haven't done that----not even one single year-----since WWII ended, and the parties were entirely different.
Wake me up when your new POTUS DeSantis cuts spending. Trump increased spending by 66%, and you're pretending like DeSantis' vote was a swell example of Republicans being frugal.
Seems like you may be stuck in the pre 1940's, if you think things are ever going to change. Might be time for you to take off the broken record you keep repeating and move to something in this century. Once people get the taste of other peoples money, they ain't going back my friend.
mmm, seems to me that he's quite focused on the BS being spewed in the here and now.
My point exactly....as he states, it has not changed since WWII.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:57 am
Narrator is a little tiresome, but this offers a good explanation for why people live where they do in CONUS. Hint: it's the water, stupid...
Oh, and the irony of Lake Powell being named after a scientist who advised against the current political and governmental structures for "West" is breathtaking. Oh, and "line of aridity" is moving eastward...
It supports my consistent recommendation that the Golden State Empire … uh, California … immediately launch a “special military operation” to secure virtually all of the Colorado River’s fresh water for the Imperial Province of Southern California.
I’m doing my part for water conservation by installing drip irrigation in my yard and forgoing sprinkling on weekends as well as limiting how much time the waterfalls run in my swimming pool.
This is why PB is so soft and sensitive about Atlanta because like everything else we dominate Florida on this too.
ENVIRONMENT
A 3-Decade-Long Water Dispute Heads To The Supreme Court
January 7, 20206:07 AM ET
Debbie Elliot
DEBBIE ELLIOTT
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GREG ALLEN
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Lake Lanier, a reservoir northeast of Atlanta, generates hydropower as its water is released from a dam into the Chattahoochee River. More than 6 million people depend on water from the reservoir.
Greg Allen/NPR
For three decades, Georgia and Florida have been battling over how to share a precious resource: water. Georgia has it, and Florida, which is downstream, says it's not getting its fair share. The dispute is once again headed to the U.S. Supreme Court, where Florida wants the justices to cap Georgia's water use. But a court-appointed special master recently rejected that idea.
More than 6 million people depend on water that starts at Lake Lanier, a reservoir northeast of Atlanta. It generates hydropower as its water is released from a dam into the Chattahoochee River.
"We generate power based on a peak demand," says powerhouse manager Cecil Quinley, with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.
It's a big lake, covering some 60 square miles, but it fills slowly. In times of plenty, there's enough water to serve the needs of metro Atlanta plus communities, industry and farming in southern Georgia, eastern Alabama and a section of Florida's panhandle.
The problems arise when there's a drought.
"A one-year drought doesn't cause particular complications, but a three-year drought does," says Katherine Zitsch, with the Atlanta Regional Commission.
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A drought from 2006 to 2008 led then-Gov. Sonny Perdue to hold a prayer meeting for rain. It also gave urgency to efforts by Florida and Alabama to fight for their share of a scarce resource that's becoming even more unpredictable as the climate warms.
After two decades of talks and lawsuits, Florida finally went to the Supreme Court in 2013, asking it to limit how much water Georgia could use.
The Flint River starts near Atlanta and meanders south to the border with Florida, passing through pine forests and providing water for small towns and lots of farmland.
Greg Allen/NPR
In Georgia, high-efficiency toilets and limits for farmers
Zitsch says Georgia has done a lot to limit its use. "It's high-efficiency toilets," she says. "It's conservation pricing, where the more water you use, the more you pay." It has worked so well that despite growing by 1.5 million people since 2000, metro Atlanta uses 10% less water.
Zitsch say the next step is to update water treatment plants so communities can reclaim water that was being lost. Gwinnett County has spent nearly a billion dollars building a plant that now gets wastewater clean enough so that it can be returned to the lake.
The Flint River is also part of the lawsuit. It starts near Atlanta and meanders south to the border with Florida, passing through pine forests and providing water for small towns and lots of farmland.
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"If you want to grow a reliable, dependable quality crop," says Christopher Worsham, "it takes water. And it takes a lot of it."
Worsham's great-grandfather used mules to raise row crops here in Camilla, 50 miles north of the border with Florida. Now the family-run business, Worsham Farms, has a cavernous warehouse where pecans are sorted and bagged. Most will be shipped to China, a big market for premium Georgia pecans. Worsham also raises peanuts and corn, and they all require irrigation.
Christopher Worsham stands in his warehouse filled with Georgia pecans. Because of the droughts and the lawsuits, Georgia had to take a hard look at the water it uses for farming. It has placed a moratorium on new wells for agriculture and is requiring all farmers to move to more efficient irrigation systems.
Greg Allen/NPR
Because of the droughts and the lawsuits, Georgia had to take a hard look at the water it uses for farming. It has placed a moratorium on new wells for agriculture and is requiring all farmers to move to more efficient irrigation systems.
A short distance from the warehouse, pecan trees are lined up in rows. "This is actually where the water's coming from," says Worsham, as he bends down and points out a small black tube about the size of a straw. All his trees use this efficient drip irrigation.
For crops such as peanuts and corn, farmers have moved to low-pressure irrigation systems that use less water and lose less of it to evaporation. Most also now use soil sensors to let them know when and how much to irrigate.
"I don't see any of the other states doing it," says Worsham. Just across the state line, he says, "you can dig a well, and pump as much water, and do whatever you want."
Georgians say they're working to conserve water and are willing to compromise, but wonder if the same is true in Florida.
Apalachicola river keeper Georgia Ackerman says the water in Florida's Apalachicola Bay has declined so much that the needs of this local ecosystem are not being met.
Debbie Elliott/NPR
In Florida, estuary ecosystem faces "a slow death"
At the southernmost point of the Georgia-Florida water dispute is Florida's Apalachicola Bay, where there's not enough fresh water coming downriver to keep the estuary healthy.
"It's almost like a slow death," says Apalachicola river keeper Georgia Ackerman. "It's very difficult to watch."
She says the water has declined so much that the needs of this local ecosystem are not being met. "So it's kind of like we were taught in kindergarten. We need to share, and we need to share fairly."
Ackerman navigates an aluminum motorboat into the delta where the Apalachicola River and its tributaries empty into the bay.
"This used to be a breeding ground, you know, for shrimp and fish and crabs," says Shannon Hartsfield, president of the local seafood workers' association. "It's all changed up drastically."
The mix of salty seawater with the fresh river water flowing downstream historically has been a perfect environment for oysters. But today, Apalachicola oysters are hard to come by. After an extended drought, there was a total collapse in 2012.
Debbie Elliott/NPR
This is where the river meets the Gulf of Mexico and the tides mix salty seawater with the fresh river water flowing downstream. It's the perfect brew for what has historically been the most famous harvest here — oysters.
"Apalachicola oyster is known for half-shell oysters," Hartsfield says. "Everybody wants to eat them raw."
But they're hard to come by. Hartsfield comes from a family of oystermen and has watched the fishery decline in the last 20 years. After an extended drought, there was a total collapse in 2012. Hartsfield says it has yet to recover — going from more than 300 working oyster boats when he was a kid to about a dozen today.
"If we go through another drought that's even close to the 2012 drought, that's going to completely devastate and finish us off," he says.
As we move upriver, the vegetation changes from salt marsh to more of a wooded riverbank with towering cypress trees.
Trees line the water's edge along Florida's Apalachicola River. Millions of tupelo trees and freshwater grasses have been choked out by salt water creeping farther inshore.
Debbie Elliott/NPR
My tour guides point out what has already been lost, including millions of tupelo trees, and the freshwater marsh grasses that have been choked out by salt water creeping farther inshore.
UNESCO has recognized the region as a critical biosphere reserve.
"Without the Supreme Court giving relief to Florida from Georgia's domination of the water, we will see this ecosystem go away," says river keeper emeritus Dan Tonsmeire.
He has watched as attempts at a congressional remedy and tristate negotiations all failed to get more water downstream, leaving the question now to the Supreme Court.
Apalachicola is old Florida — no high-rise condos or big-box stores. Shops and restaurants downtown draw tourists alongside what's left of a working waterfront.
13 Mile Seafood is one of the few seafood-processing plants that are still open in the area.
Debbie Elliott/NPR
But once bustling seafood-processing plants are closed up and for sale. One of the few still in operation is 13 Mile Seafood, where workers in early December are hosing down the stainless steel shrimp-sorting table.
"It's kinda slow here now, so we're doing our maintenance," says Joseph "Smokey" Parrish, who has worked here for 37 years, overseeing the wholesale shrimp operation.
Parrish is also a Franklin County commissioner who has been embroiled in the water war since he was first elected in 2006.
"I've lived it my whole life," he says. "And I represent the people in Franklin County and all these jobs that we're losing."
Parrish says nearly 5,000 jobs are at stake if the fisheries here collapse.
"That's nothing for metro Atlanta. So in comparison, it may not mean much," he says. But what's at stake is "our history and our heritage and our way of life."
Joseph "Smokey" Parrish has worked at 13 Mile Seafood for 37 years. He oversees the wholesale shrimp operation and is also a Franklin County commissioner. He says nearly 5,000 jobs are at stake if the fisheries here collapse.
Debbie Elliott/NPR
These issues are going to become more critical with climate change, says Robin Kundis Craig, the James I. Farr presidential endowed chair of law at the University of Utah.
She specializes in water law and says compacts have worked in the West where water is scarce. But she says there's a different dynamic here.
"Climate change is introducing the East to bigger and worse droughts, but also bigger and worse floods," Craig says. Figuring out how to share water given that extreme variability may be even more difficult than simply coping with a shortage.
"Ecosystems need water too," she says, "and there's no real precedent for how to fit that into these equitable apportionment decisions."
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:06 am
If there’s money to be made, I see no reason to doubt the damaged areas will be rebuilt. Are there examples where redevelopment after an disaster was curtailed or limited?
I wonder whether it's time to attach strings on federal support?
Relocation rather than rebuild?
Resilient infrastructure?
Flood mitigation, wetlands absorption etc?
There are sound examples of developments that are resilient and energy independent, including in Florida.
Support relocation to such and not those which are doomed for further catastrophe?
Send them all the Sebring, Ocala and the Villages!
tell them they are going to have housing, food and jobs when they arrive….then drop them off at the country club and film it!!
Tyrone Biggums is a go to! He talks about the “3rd street bus” in one sketch….I laughed so hard because I have taken that bus 100 times!!
My dad loved chatting u random folks in buses when he’d visit me in various cities. Cracked me up because folks wouldn’t treat him liek a deranged schizo as one should when being engaged in a conversation randomly on a bus but rather they’d engage back and share their stories. Utterly amazing. But we took buses like 1st Ave line in NYC or on Conn Ave from my crib to the zoo etc not
Below the Anacostia River prover by hunts point.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:49 pm
Seems like you may be stuck in the pre 1940's, if you think things are ever going to change. Might be time for you to take off the broken record you keep repeating and move to something in this century. Once people get the taste of other peoples money, they ain't going back my friend.
Then two things:
1. Your Republican leaders need to stop making claims that small government is THE cornerstone of the Party.
2. What's left? Why would I vote Republican on a national level if they aren't small government? What do they stand for?
They literally don't have a platform, YA. Literally. So...why would I vote for one, if THE thing that made a Republican a Republican until the year 2000....is gone?
Last edited by a fan on Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:49 pm
Seems like you may be stuck in the pre 1940's, if you think things are ever going to change. Might be time for you to take off the broken record you keep repeating and move to something in this century. Once people get the taste of other peoples money, they ain't going back my friend.
Then two things:
1. Your Republican leaders need to stop making claims that small government is THE cornerstone of the Party.
2. What's left? Why would I vote Republican on a national level if they aren't small government? What doe they stand for?
They literally don't have a platform, YA. Literally. So...why would I vote for one, if THE thing that made a Republican a Republican until the year 2000....is gone?
well, the GOP also claimed to be strong defense back in the day too, so not sure the only or "THE" claim we had was for restrained government.
But your point is correct, it's amazing that the Tea Party true believers (and there were indeed many) have so totally abandoned those views in the cynical desire for power at any cost. Total hypocrisy.
Once people get the taste of other peoples money, they ain't going back my friend.