Healthcare

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foreverlax
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Re: Healthcare

Post by foreverlax »

RedFromMI wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:14 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:58 pm
frmanfan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Ok, I read this a few posts back, I have to ask since I know nothing about this, but why should insulin be free?
When something that impacts so many, and is so cheap to produce, why not give it away....suspect it would be cheaper then the unintended consequences that result when folks can't afford the script.
Since my (late) wife was a diabetic - as well as my pug (who was diabetic for the last five years of her life), I will comment. Human insulin in its cheapest form is probably something like Novalyn N - which you can buy from Wal-Mart for about $26 retail, no prescription or health insurance needed. Not what is usually prescribed now for humans, BTW, but what I was using for the dog. The reason few humans use it is the length of action - most "insulin" formulations are not just insulin but modified forms that are designed to act over longer periods of time in order to better control the levels in the body. Also, because they are biologics rather than just drugs, approvals are much stricter. And manufacturers tweak the insulins every so often to get a new patent on them, and guarantee some additional time without competition.

BTW, it is not necessarily that cheap to produce: https://health.usnews.com/health-care/f ... of-insulin
There are several reasons it's become increasingly expensive – some are due to the biology and process involved in the manufacturing, and some are related to government regulations and the pharmaceutical industry's desire to continue to make a profit.
From the article
From a regulatory perspective, insulin makers are protected from generic competitors under patent law. A patent allows a manufacturer to sell a product unchallenged for a certain number of years prior to approving a generic. In many cases, insulin makers continue to "tweak" current insulin products in order to extend their exclusivity rights. In addition, there's little incentive for pharmaceutical companies to spend millions of dollars to develop a cheaper alternative. Because insulin is considered a "biologic" drug, the FDA approval process is far more stringent and can take much longer than for other types of drugs.
Strip out the b.s regulations, the b.s. patent protections for "tweaks" and b.s. obscene profits and it's doable...we'd make money.
jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

frmanfan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Ok, I read this a few posts back, I have to ask since I know nothing about this, but why should insulin be free?
In the context of the existing system -- "Trump sabotaged ACA" it should not be, it should be cheaper


In the world of Medicare for ALL -- it would be.
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runrussellrun
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Re: Healthcare

Post by runrussellrun »

frmanfan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Ok, I read this a few posts back, I have to ask since I know nothing about this, but why should insulin be free?
Same reason why NIH gives billions for grant research to study things like "is school lunch good to eat" Or we build stadiums with tax dollars.

Because we can.

Ok, maybe not free, but I have 8 prescriptions sitting next to me and it cost a whopping $22 for all of them. Two of them cost less than a dollar.
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runrussellrun
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Re: Healthcare

Post by runrussellrun »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:58 pm
frmanfan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Ok, I read this a few posts back, I have to ask since I know nothing about this, but why should insulin be free?
In the context of the existing system -- "Trump sabotaged ACA" it should not be, it should be cheaper


In the world of Medicare for ALL -- it would be.
Only your team isn't rolling that rock up that hill now, are they?
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Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

foreverlax wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:58 pm
frmanfan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Ok, I read this a few posts back, I have to ask since I know nothing about this, but why should insulin be free?
When something that impacts so many, and is so cheap to produce, why not give it away....suspect it would be cheaper then the unintended consequences that result when folks can't afford the script.
It is certainly true that it would be cheaper for society to give it away when you look at the total cost to society of poor people with the disease not having access to it.
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jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

RedFromMI wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:14 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:58 pm
frmanfan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Ok, I read this a few posts back, I have to ask since I know nothing about this, but why should insulin be free?
When something that impacts so many, and is so cheap to produce, why not give it away....suspect it would be cheaper then the unintended consequences that result when folks can't afford the script.
Since my (late) wife was a diabetic - as well as my pug (who was diabetic for the last five years of her life), I will comment. Human insulin in its cheapest form is probably something like Novalyn N - which you can buy from Wal-Mart for about $26 retail, no prescription or health insurance needed. Not what is usually prescribed now for humans, BTW, but what I was using for the dog. The reason few humans use it is the length of action - most "insulin" formulations are not just insulin but modified forms that are designed to act over longer periods of time in order to better control the levels in the body. Also, because they are biologics rather than just drugs, approvals are much stricter. And manufacturers tweak the insulins every so often to get a new patent on them, and guarantee some additional time without competition.

BTW, it is not necessarily that cheap to produce: https://health.usnews.com/health-care/f ... of-insulin
It is not unknown for the poor to substitute the vet insulin for their human insulin perscription. Which just causes them other problems.
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runrussellrun
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Re: Healthcare

Post by runrussellrun »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:11 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:58 pm
frmanfan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Ok, I read this a few posts back, I have to ask since I know nothing about this, but why should insulin be free?
When something that impacts so many, and is so cheap to produce, why not give it away....suspect it would be cheaper then the unintended consequences that result when folks can't afford the script.
It is certainly true that it would be cheaper for society to give it away when you look at the total cost to society of poor people with the disease not having access to it.
Or, others view the demise of the poor in another lite. AOC, Al gore....population control and all. :evil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPioiHW8BD0
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RedFromMI
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Re: Healthcare

Post by RedFromMI »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:37 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:14 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:58 pm
frmanfan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Ok, I read this a few posts back, I have to ask since I know nothing about this, but why should insulin be free?
When something that impacts so many, and is so cheap to produce, why not give it away....suspect it would be cheaper then the unintended consequences that result when folks can't afford the script.
Since my (late) wife was a diabetic - as well as my pug (who was diabetic for the last five years of her life), I will comment. Human insulin in its cheapest form is probably something like Novalyn N - which you can buy from Wal-Mart for about $26 retail, no prescription or health insurance needed. Not what is usually prescribed now for humans, BTW, but what I was using for the dog. The reason few humans use it is the length of action - most "insulin" formulations are not just insulin but modified forms that are designed to act over longer periods of time in order to better control the levels in the body. Also, because they are biologics rather than just drugs, approvals are much stricter. And manufacturers tweak the insulins every so often to get a new patent on them, and guarantee some additional time without competition.

BTW, it is not necessarily that cheap to produce: https://health.usnews.com/health-care/f ... of-insulin
It is not unknown for the poor to substitute the vet insulin for their human insulin perscription. Which just causes them other problems.
The stuff from Wal-Mart is actually human insulin...but can be used for dogs/cats as long as you find the correct dosage. When my vet found out that my pug died just after Christmas (while I was traveling - and she died at 14.5 yrs from congestive heart failure, not diabetes directly) he said that she lived longer with diabetes than any dog he had experience with.
jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

RedFromMI wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:10 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:27 pm Trump's top ten actions to improve our healthcare, per Breitbart
Here are the top ten.

1. Lower premiums. After the Obama administration oversaw massive double- and triple-digit annual increases in the price of Obamacare, the Trump administration has succeeded in stabilizing prices, which have decreased for many plans — contrary to what many experts predicted. Obamacare is still too expensive, and its deductibles far too high, but Trump fulfilled his campaign promise in 2016 to stop the massive premium increases under the policy.

There were _not_ such massive increases, and what Trump has done to sabotage the system has actually kept the Obamacare record of lowering the rate of increase from keeping things in check as well (see acasignups.net under their rate hikes section for the last couple of years showing what the results would have been without Trump/Republican interference with the ACA.

2. Short-term plans. Obamacare eliminated many cheap, bare-bones, short-term health insurance plans favored by younger people, forcing them to pay huge premiums for coverage they did not need. Some of these plans are 80% cheaper than the cheapest Obamacare plan. President Trump signed an executive order, and promulgated new rules, that expand the length of these plans from three to 12 months, and allow them to be renewed for up to three years.

They were eliminated because they were not full insurance. You need to get healthy (often young) people into the system to reduce costs - that is the whole purpose of insurance. By allowing fake insurance to be purchased (sometimes not covering hospitalization, for example) you increase the risk that one of those younger customers ends up in medical bankruptcy because they were not covered. The plans are cheaper because they are not full health insurance. One of the biggest mistakes Obama made in his "you can keep your insurance if you like it" statement was that if you had dump insurance you could not actually keep it.

3. End to individual mandate. President Trump’s tax cut, signed into law in 2017, eliminated the requirement to purchase insurance — the most constitutionally objectionable part of Obamacare. That change saved individuals and families hundreds of dollars per year in IRS fines. And contrary to the predictions of critics, it did not result in the collapse of the system as a whole, as premiums dropped and more insurance providers participated in the system.

Definitely one of the more disliked features of not just ACA but the predecessor Romneycare in MA. But it drives people to buy insurance, and that keeps everyone's cost down. Also tends to keep hospitals open since they know that the patients have insurance coverage...

4. Group health plans across state lines. President Trump took a crucial step toward fulfilling the Republican promise of allowing people to buy insurance across state lines by signing an executive order in October 2017 that opened the door to employers in the same industry to pool their employees into common Associated Health Plans (AHPs) in different states. The result would be cheaper and better coverage for workers within those industries.

The issue is that some states have better standards, so their coverage tends to cost more. So you substitute a race to the bottom... .. as well as make mergers and acquisitions more likely so that you drive up prices

5. Choice for veterans. President Trump signed the VA MISSION Act in 2018, which passed with bipartisan support and expanded options for veterans to obtain health care in the private sector. Trump has also prioritized addressing backlogs within the Veterans Affairs system. His commitment to veterans and first responders is such that even left-wing comedian Jon Stewart acknowledged Trump was doing a good job for 9/11 responders.

Rather than invest in and fix the VA.

6. “Right to try.” In May 2018, President Trump signed the “Right to Try” Act, which allows patients in desperate need to try new, experimental drugs that had not yet been approved by regulators. The law allowed patients to approach manufacturers directly, and limited their liability in the event the drugs did not work as hoped. In addition, the administration focusing on streamlining new drug approvals at the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Actually good in theory, a bust in practice. Does not seem to be working.

7. Drug price information. President Trump has presided over the largest decline in drug prices in 46 years, and is proposing measures to lower them even further. In his 2019 State of the Union address, for example, he proposed “requir[ing] drug companies, insurance companies, and hospitals to disclose real prices to foster competition and bring costs way down.” He also proposed eliminating kickbacks to the middlemen in the prescription drug industry.

Based on a lie. Average drug prices have continued to increase. .. as well as laughable, you just have to sign a piece of paper to make kickbacks go away. Notice the most obvious improvement does not appear on lack of brains' list -- removing the restriction that government can't negotiate bulk pricing -- dead give away they don't care about costs

8. Opioids and fentanyl. The Obama administration failed to deal with the opioid epidemic, even declining to declare a national emergency to stop the proliferation of deadly fentanyl. In contrast, President Trump has made the fight against opioids and fentanyl a priority. His effort to build a barrier along the U.S.-Mexico border, and his administration’s tougher border enforcement, have also aimed to improve public health by stopping the drug flow.

One of the Obama administrations biggest failures, yes. Trump has not done much of anything about it, as border security along the US-Mexico border has little to do with the fentanyl crisis. That is mostly shipped through mail/UPS/etc. If it comes from Mexico, it most likely comes through ports of entry, for which there has been little action of the Trump administration.

9. Better administration. Trump told reporters in the Oval Office Wednesday that his administration is doing a better job of administering Obamacare than the Obama administration itself. One way it is doing so is through allowing the states greater flexibility in addressing their insurance markets ” rather than subscribing to the previous administration’s prescriptive one-size-fits-all approach,” wrote Medicare and Medicaid administrator Seema Verna.

10. Support for repeal. President Trump’s enduring commitment to repealing Obamacare and replacing it with a policy that actually works is crucial. The alternative is letting the government take over health care entirely, which Democrats are embracing in the “Medicare for All” policy — which would ban private insurance and limit access to experimental drugs, among other fatal flaws. If not for Trump, Republicans would have given up long ago.

Outside of Trump and apparently Mick Mulvaney there is little demand for repeal. Most of the public is wary of attempts to mess with what they have, and that includes repeal of the ACA.
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jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

RedFromMI wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:55 pm
jhu72 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:37 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:14 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:58 pm
frmanfan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Ok, I read this a few posts back, I have to ask since I know nothing about this, but why should insulin be free?
When something that impacts so many, and is so cheap to produce, why not give it away....suspect it would be cheaper then the unintended consequences that result when folks can't afford the script.
Since my (late) wife was a diabetic - as well as my pug (who was diabetic for the last five years of her life), I will comment. Human insulin in its cheapest form is probably something like Novalyn N - which you can buy from Wal-Mart for about $26 retail, no prescription or health insurance needed. Not what is usually prescribed now for humans, BTW, but what I was using for the dog. The reason few humans use it is the length of action - most "insulin" formulations are not just insulin but modified forms that are designed to act over longer periods of time in order to better control the levels in the body. Also, because they are biologics rather than just drugs, approvals are much stricter. And manufacturers tweak the insulins every so often to get a new patent on them, and guarantee some additional time without competition.

BTW, it is not necessarily that cheap to produce: https://health.usnews.com/health-care/f ... of-insulin
It is not unknown for the poor to substitute the vet insulin for their human insulin perscription. Which just causes them other problems.
The stuff from Wal-Mart is actually human insulin...but can be used for dogs/cats as long as you find the correct dosage. When my vet found out that my pug died just after Christmas (while I was traveling - and she died at 14.5 yrs from congestive heart failure, not diabetes directly) he said that she lived longer with diabetes than any dog he had experience with.
Understood. The vet insulin (not the Walmart stuff) seems to cost about half as much and can be had with no problems.
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RedFromMI
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Re: Healthcare

Post by RedFromMI »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:23 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:55 pm
jhu72 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:37 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:14 pm
foreverlax wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:58 pm
frmanfan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Ok, I read this a few posts back, I have to ask since I know nothing about this, but why should insulin be free?
When something that impacts so many, and is so cheap to produce, why not give it away....suspect it would be cheaper then the unintended consequences that result when folks can't afford the script.
Since my (late) wife was a diabetic - as well as my pug (who was diabetic for the last five years of her life), I will comment. Human insulin in its cheapest form is probably something like Novalyn N - which you can buy from Wal-Mart for about $26 retail, no prescription or health insurance needed. Not what is usually prescribed now for humans, BTW, but what I was using for the dog. The reason few humans use it is the length of action - most "insulin" formulations are not just insulin but modified forms that are designed to act over longer periods of time in order to better control the levels in the body. Also, because they are biologics rather than just drugs, approvals are much stricter. And manufacturers tweak the insulins every so often to get a new patent on them, and guarantee some additional time without competition.

BTW, it is not necessarily that cheap to produce: https://health.usnews.com/health-care/f ... of-insulin
It is not unknown for the poor to substitute the vet insulin for their human insulin perscription. Which just causes them other problems.
The stuff from Wal-Mart is actually human insulin...but can be used for dogs/cats as long as you find the correct dosage. When my vet found out that my pug died just after Christmas (while I was traveling - and she died at 14.5 yrs from congestive heart failure, not diabetes directly) he said that she lived longer with diabetes than any dog he had experience with.
Understood. The vet insulin (not the Walmart stuff) seems to cost about half as much and can be had with no problems.
The vet stuff was more expensive here...

As far as human prescriptions - when my wife was alive and diabetic her insulin was completely paid for except for a small copayment. Some of her medications were actually without copayment, as the State of South Carolina health plan she was on (and I am still on as a survivor) made the decision that basic diabetic care was far cheaper than caring for the side effects of diabetes when not properly cared for.
jhu72
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Re: Healthcare

Post by jhu72 »

Well lookie here. Another Federal Court jambs a stick into the front spokes of Orange Duce's ACA repeal-o-cycle. More work for the supremes I guess.
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frmanfan
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Re: Healthcare

Post by frmanfan »

This would of course open the inevitable can of worms. Turn the system over to the politicians, which is what a government run system would be, and it would be "free" insulin today, but what about my medicine? Why am I paying for that? If health care is declared a right, as some claim, there would be no end to this game.

I don't claim to have any answers. All I know is that no matter what system, what country, or who pays, the outcome is the same for everyone at the end. We all have a 100% mortality rate.
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foreverlax
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Re: Healthcare

Post by foreverlax »

runrussellrun wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:12 pm .....I have made it VERY clear that I support government run healthcare. Costs based on a percentage of your income perhaps, but call it what you will. Single payer, universal, socialism.....
The Case for Medicare for All

You’d be able to keep your doctor with no premiums or copays, and overall spending would decline.

A single-payer health-insurance system can finance good-quality coverage for all U.S. residents while still reducing overall health-care spending by roughly 10%, according to a study I co-authored last November. All Americans would be able to get care from their chosen providers without having to pay premiums, deductibles or copayments.

Other countries currently provide good health care to residents at a fraction of the U.S. cost. As of 2017, the U.S. spent $3.3 trillion on health care—17% of gross domestic product. Germany, France, Japan, Canada, the U.K., Australia, Spain and Italy spent between 9% and 11% of GDP on health care. Yet some measures—like those based on the amenable mortality rate, which tracks medically preventable deaths—rank the U.S. well below those countries.

The U.S. ranks so poorly in large part because so many Americans lack access to health care. Roughly 30 million people, 9% of the U.S. population, are uninsured. Another 26%, 86 million people, are underinsured—they have insurance but are unable to access medical care because their deductibles or copays are prohibitively high. If all these people were covered under a single-payer system, our study estimates that the overall cost of treatments would rise by about 12%, from $3.3 trillion to $3.6 trillion. Our 12% figure draws from our literature review and the 2016 estimates of Kenneth Thorpe of Emory University. It is modestly higher than the 11.3% estimate the Mercatus Center reported last July.

But Medicare for All could also eliminate 19% of total health-care spending. The largest saving, about 9% of total system costs, would come from dramatically reduced administrative costs in contracting, claims processing, credentialing providers and payment validation—all of which would be unified under one federal agency. Private insurers spend about 12% of their collective budget on administration, while Medicare operates much more efficiently, with administrative costs at around 2%.

Dramatic administrative cuts would mean far less paperwork for doctors and nurses. But administrative simplification would also entail large-scale job loses for the roughly two million people employed both by private health insurers and on the management side of hospitals and doctors’ offices. Our study proposes generous transitional support for these displaced workers, including income, retraining and relocation funds and pension guarantees. We estimate the full cost of this support would amount to about $120 billion, equal to a roughly 2% increase a year in total system costs if spread over a two-year transition phase.

The second major saving our study identified would come from the government negotiating down prescription-drug prices, which would eliminate about 6% of total system costs. Prescription-drug prices in the U.S. are about twice as high as in other advanced economies. Under Medicare for All these prices could fall, conservatively, by about 40%. Further savings would result through operating Medicare for All under a global budgeting system like the one in Canada. Such systems allow regulators to oversee billing and expenses industrywide, allowing them to control fees for physicians and hospitals, reduce unnecessary treatments and fraud, and encourage preventive care.

Taking the cost reductions and expanded coverage into account, we estimated that Medicare for All could operate with an overall budget of $2.93 trillion—nearly 10% less than current spending. To finance this, the government begins with $1.9 trillion already in hand—nearly 60% of the total needed—that pays for Medicare, Medicaid and smaller public programs. The government would therefore need to take about $1 trillion out of what businesses and families now pay to private insurers.

Our study has a few ideas to generate those funds. We propose that all businesses that currently purchase health insurance for their employees be mandated to pay 92% of what they now spend into Medicare for All—saving 8% of their health-care expenditures. Larger firms that haven’t provided coverage for every worker would pay $500 for each uninsured worker, while small businesses would be exempt from these premiums. This measure would raise more than $600 billion. After two or three years, this system could make a transition to a 1.78% tax on gross receipts or an 8.2% payroll tax, either of which would generate the needed $600 billion.

The remaining $400 billion would come from two measures: a national sales tax of 3.75% on nonnecessities, which would generate about $200 billion, and a wealth tax of 0.38%, after exempting the first $1 million of all families’ net worth, for another $200 billion. We also propose taxing long-term capital gains as ordinary income. The sum of these revenue streams will allow Medicare for All to operate with a 1% budget surplus.


Families would pay these taxes instead of premiums, deductibles and copays to private insurers. Except for those in the highest income brackets, this will produce significant savings for families as well as for businesses. Net health-care spending for middle-income families that now purchase insurance for themselves would fall by fully 14% of their income.

Add it all up and Medicare for All is actually the cheaper option for good-quality care in the U.S.
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frmanfan
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Re: Healthcare

Post by frmanfan »

Be careful what you wish for.
Lengthy treatment delays are the norm in Canada and other single-payer nations, which ration care to keep costs down. Yet more and more Democratic leaders are pushing for a single-payer system -- and more and more voters are clamoring for one.

Indeed, three in four Americans now support a national health plan -- and a new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll finds that health care is the most important issue for voters in the coming election.

The leading proponent of transitioning the United States to a single-payer system is Sen. Bernie Sanders, Vermont's firebrand independent. If Sanders and his allies succeed, Americans will face the same delays and low-quality care as their neighbors to the north.

All told, nearly 3% of Canada's population was waiting for some kind of medical care at the end of last year.

Those delays were excruciatingly long. After receiving a referral from a general practitioner, the typical patient waited more than 21 weeks to receive treatment from a specialist. That was the longest average waiting period on record -- and more than double the median wait in 1993.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes ... 6256ec3e7d
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dislaxxic
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Re: Healthcare

Post by dislaxxic »

I think these types of comments (in Forbes) are your basic garden-variety fear-mongering. It obviously not like the CURRENT "system" doesn't have massive problems, and the private sector has proven utterly and near totally unable to manage and execute a national healthcare strategy thus far.

"All told, nearly 3% of Canada's population was waiting for some kind of medical care at the end of last year."

A statement like that looks very suspiciously vague and open to interpretation. What does "some kind of medical care" mean? I'd venture to guess that not much of it is critical care-type stuff.

The so-called "public option" might be a very good way to ease into a more homogeneous approach to the issue...something that Obama gave in on back when he was (vainly) trying to work with republicans...

..
Last edited by dislaxxic on Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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foreverlax
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Re: Healthcare

Post by foreverlax »

dislaxxic wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:26 am I think these types of comments are your basic garden-variety fear-mongering. It obviously not like the CURRENT "system" doesn't have massive problems, and the private sector has proven utterly and near totally unable to manage and execute a national healthcare strategy thus far.

"All told, nearly 3% of Canada's population was waiting for some kind of medical care at the end of last year."

A statement like that looks very suspiciously vague and open to interpretation. What does "some kind of medical care" mean? I'd venture to guess that not much of it is critical care-type stuff.

The so-called "public option" might be a very good way to ease into a more homogeneous approach to the issue...something that Obama gave in on back when he was (vainly) trying to work with republicans...

..
Article was written by Sally C. Pipes is president, CEO, and Thomas W. Smith Fellow in Health Care Policy at the Pacific Research Institute. Her latest book is The False Promise of Single-Payer
The Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy (PRI) is a California-based free-market think tank which promotes "the principles of individual freedom and personal responsibility" through policies that emphasize a free economy, private initiative, and limited government.
No agenda there.
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Re: Healthcare

Post by foreverlax »

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RedFromMI
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Re: Healthcare

Post by RedFromMI »

dislaxxic wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:26 am I think these types of comments are your basic garden-variety fear-mongering. It obviously not like the CURRENT "system" doesn't have massive problems, and the private sector has proven utterly and near totally unable to manage and execute a national healthcare strategy thus far.

"All told, nearly 3% of Canada's population was waiting for some kind of medical care at the end of last year."

A statement like that looks very suspiciously vague and open to interpretation. What does "some kind of medical care" mean? I'd venture to guess that not much of it is critical care-type stuff.

The so-called "public option" might be a very good way to ease into a more homogeneous approach to the issue...something that Obama gave in on back when he was (vainly) trying to work with republicans...

..
But the major issue with the ACA was the fact that for a lot of people the disruption (either having to buy real insurance, or finding that their new insurance did not cover their current doctor, etc.) was what made it so hated at first. Only once people began to take advantage of the benefits (like vaccines without copays, birth control without copays, etc) that they grew comfortable enough with it.

Any change in the system has to be gradual...

Now of course most of the "fears" of "nationalized" systems happen in different ways with the current one. For example, rationing - now the administrations of the health insurance companies and hospital administrators make the rationing decisions for you - restrict what medications get what (large, extra large, huge) copayments, restrict coverage to certain procedures as "cosmetic" or "optional" for example. And the whole "pre-existing condition" restrictions were among the most hated ones. But for all its faults Medicare/Medicaid never had the pre-existing condition restriction...
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HooDat
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Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Healthcare

Post by HooDat »

frmanfan wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:10 am This would of course open the inevitable can of worms. Turn the system over to the politicians, which is what a government run system would be, and it would be "free" insulin today, but what about my medicine? Why am I paying for that? If health care is declared a right, as some claim, there would be no end to this game.

I don't claim to have any answers. All I know is that no matter what system, what country, or who pays, the outcome is the same for everyone at the end. We all have a 100% mortality rate.
The hard part does indeed become WHAT is covered?

Insulin - easy
Chemo - easy
Broken bones - easy

rehab - not as easy, but compassionate

face lifts, boob jobs, abortions .... becomes a lot dicier for some people.

perhaps we just cover the diseases with the best lobbyists? That would ultimately be the outcome.

we would also end up only receiving prescription drugs from the companies with the best lobbyists - unless drug research is nationalized (which I don't have a problem with btw ... make the researcher rich, but some suit should not get rich off 300% mark-up on a drug that was discovered with fed research money...)
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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