What's with all the "Power Play" nonsense on ESPN this year?

[MDlaxfan76]

Things change
At one time the positions in lacrosse were : Att - In Home, Out Home, First Attack... Mids- Second Attack, Center, Second Defense ... D was Point , Coverpoint and First Defense.
By rule Goalies wore jersey numbers 1-9, Defense 10-19, Middies 20-39 and Attack 40-49. I believe JHU followed this rule until the early 70's

Interesting.

When did the terminology re positions change in the men's game?...I never heard my dad and his friends who played in the '40's and '50's use those terms. They did refer to a crease attack man, and crease defenseman, and center middie, as my era did, but not those other terms. Earlier?

The women's side was doing those or similar terms as you suggest in the '70's and '80's...

We didn't call poles in the midfield LSM's in the '70's but that made sense to adopt within a few years, nor was the term FOGO used back then, as most stayed on. My HS classmate in '76 was the first face-off specialist in HS to be recognized as such as all-state, at least in Maryland. A true FOGO. But the specialization had started a bit earlier if I recall...but again, most stayed on.

I recall that in the early 70s score sheets still had these positions listed. I think in box, one player is designated the "in home" to take bench penalties.

Mmm, I know we weren’t using them in rec and my early HS years, but interesting re score sheets. I’ll look later at whether Bob Scott’s book mentions those terms.

[Kismet]

Things change
At one time the positions in lacrosse were : Att - In Home, Out Home, First Attack... Mids- Second Attack, Center, Second Defense ... D was Point , Coverpoint and First Defense.
By rule Goalies wore jersey numbers 1-9, Defense 10-19, Middies 20-39 and Attack 40-49. I believe JHU followed this rule until the early 70's

Interesting.

When did the terminology re positions change in the men's game?...I never heard my dad and his friends who played in the '40's and '50's use those terms. They did refer to a crease attack man, and crease defenseman, and center middie, as my era did, but not those other terms. Earlier?

The women's side was doing those or similar terms as you suggest in the '70's and '80's...

We didn't call poles in the midfield LSM's in the '70's but that made sense to adopt within a few years, nor was the term FOGO used back then, as most stayed on. My HS classmate in '76 was the first face-off specialist in HS to be recognized as such as all-state, at least in Maryland. A true FOGO. But the specialization had started a bit earlier if I recall...but again, most stayed on.

I recall that in the early 70s score sheets still had these positions listed. I think in box, one player is designated the "in home" to take bench penalties.

There is still an IN HOME reported to the officials before each game to serve any team penalties - sometimes they use the first player listed in the scorebook (usually a starting attackman).

I think those positional terms went out in the 60s- early 70s if not before that.
Mmm, I know we weren’t using them in rec and my early HS years, but interesting re score sheets. I’ll look later at whether Bob Scott’s book mentions those terms.

A for the announcing - more BS from sports media - just call the effing game please. Some color is good and informational but its way over the top with the current crews. They ALL do it now - not just Quin and Carc.

[renault]

I think it is because it is gender neutral. The term "freshman" has been eradicated from any feed I watch (hockey/lax), and several networks use "player up" instead of "man up" as a graphic. I don't agree w/it obviously since it is all men playing, but that's libs for ya.

Take your politics to the Water Cooler. There's not one word of truth to this.
No girls playing hockey or lacrosse these days? Tune into the Cuse-UNC wlax
game played yesterday and get back to me on how many times you hear
the female commentator say, "Benoit, the freshman" (phenomenal D girl for
the Cuse). You need new feeds....I still hear freshman, man up, man down,
player up, player down, woman up, woman down, and yup, power play on
all the channels I get.

He has a point, though, and his post absolutely belongs in this thread. None of the Ivy broadcasts use the term "freshman" anymore due, I imagine, to political pressure from the schools (which call them "first-years"). They've adopted all sorts of gender-neutral language, and it was my initial guess that "power play" had bled over from this.

Notice that broadcasters are using "attacker" and "defender" now? That's another word I'd never used or heard before -- have any of you? It certainly seems like some sort of top-down push.

[LaxPundit07]

I think it is because it is gender neutral. The term "freshman" has been eradicated from any feed I watch (hockey/lax), and several networks use "player up" instead of "man up" as a graphic. I don't agree w/it obviously since it is all men playing, but that's libs for ya.

You might not like what UP said here…but it doesn’t mean he is wrong. Ivys, in particular, are adopting all sorts of gender neutral terminology. The first time I heard “power play”
I just assumed that’s what it was and moved on with my day. Agree with the efforts to remove gender or not, it’s happening.

[DMac]

I think it is because it is gender neutral. The term "freshman" has been eradicated from any feed I watch (hockey/lax), and several networks use "player up" instead of "man up" as a graphic. I don't agree w/it obviously since it is all men playing, but that's libs for ya.

Take your politics to the Water Cooler. There's not one word of truth to this.
No girls playing hockey or lacrosse these days? Tune into the Cuse-UNC wlax
game played yesterday and get back to me on how many times you hear
the female commentator say, "Benoit, the freshman" (phenomenal D girl for
the Cuse). You need new feeds....I still hear freshman, man up, man down,
player up, player down, woman up, woman down, and yup, power play on
all the channels I get.

He has a point, though, and his post absolutely belongs in this thread. None of the Ivy broadcasts use the term "freshman" anymore due, I imagine, to political pressure from the schools (which call them "first-years"). They've adopted all sorts of gender-neutral language, and it was my initial guess that "power play" had bled over from this.

Notice that broadcasters are using "attacker" and "defender" now? That's another word I'd never used or heard before -- have any of you? It certainly seems like some sort of top-down push.

Well, I guess that's the Ivies for ya. I don't get the Ivy network so I don't hear that language much. Just watched the Princeton-Cornell mlax game and Carc had to have said freshman at least 20 times...the freshman Goldstein.
I think power play comes from the PLL. Carc and Quint are big fans and have brought that to their college broadcasts.
Seems to me that I've heard attacker and defender since first becoming interested in wlax (hasn't really been that long).
You don't hear Oangemen re Cuse anymore, it's just the Orange...no genders allowed.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Where did this come from? Why are lacrosse guys like Quint saying "power play" as if it's a term used in field lacrosse?

Trying to sell the game. It’s used in box as a derivative of Canadian hockey. I think it is silly for professional broadcasters to use “power play”…..you sort of have to already know the game to understand it’s meaning. Player Up Advantage, Player Down, man up oran down makes more sense for the field game. A little of the Canadian factor. It wasn’t until the PLL came along that the frequency of the term picked up in the field game. It’s such a niche game….Quint and those guys all feed from the same trough.

[Unknown Participant]

I think it is because it is gender neutral. The term "freshman" has been eradicated from any feed I watch (hockey/lax), and several networks use "player up" instead of "man up" as a graphic. I don't agree w/it obviously since it is all men playing, but that's libs for ya.

Take your politics to the Water Cooler. There's not one word of truth to this.
No girls playing hockey or lacrosse these days? Tune into the Cuse-UNC wlax
game played yesterday and get back to me on how many times you hear
the female commentator say, "Benoit, the freshman" (phenomenal D girl for
the Cuse). You need new feeds....I still hear freshman, man up, man down,
player up, player down, woman up, woman down, and yup, power play on
all the channels I get.

He has a point, though, and his post absolutely belongs in this thread. None of the Ivy broadcasts use the term "freshman" anymore due, I imagine, to political pressure from the schools (which call them "first-years"). They've adopted all sorts of gender-neutral language, and it was my initial guess that "power play" had bled over from this.

Notice that broadcasters are using "attacker" and "defender" now? That's another word I'd never used or heard before -- have any of you? It certainly seems like some sort of top-down push.

Well, I guess that's the Ivies for ya. I don't get the Ivy network so I don't hear that language much. Just watched the Princeton-Cornell mlax game and Carc had to have said freshman at least 20 times...the freshman Goldstein.
I think power play comes from the PLL. Carc and Quint are big fans and have brought that to their college broadcasts.
Seems to me that I've heard attacker and defender since first becoming interested in wlax (hasn't really been that long).
You don't hear Oangemen re Cuse anymore, it's just the Orange...no genders allowed.

Carc is an outlier. I have been to 20-30 college hockey/lax games this year (since Oct 2023) and the programs and announcers without fail used "first year," as do almost all of the streams I watch.

[MDlaxfan76]

I think it is because it is gender neutral. The term "freshman" has been eradicated from any feed I watch (hockey/lax), and several networks use "player up" instead of "man up" as a graphic. I don't agree w/it obviously since it is all men playing, but that's libs for ya.

Take your politics to the Water Cooler. There's not one word of truth to this.
No girls playing hockey or lacrosse these days? Tune into the Cuse-UNC wlax
game played yesterday and get back to me on how many times you hear
the female commentator say, "Benoit, the freshman" (phenomenal D girl for
the Cuse). You need new feeds....I still hear freshman, man up, man down,
player up, player down, woman up, woman down, and yup, power play on
all the channels I get.

He has a point, though, and his post absolutely belongs in this thread. None of the Ivy broadcasts use the term "freshman" anymore due, I imagine, to political pressure from the schools (which call them "first-years"). They've adopted all sorts of gender-neutral language, and it was my initial guess that "power play" had bled over from this.

Notice that broadcasters are using "attacker" and "defender" now? That's another word I'd never used or heard before -- have any of you? It certainly seems like some sort of top-down push.

Well, I guess that's the Ivies for ya. I don't get the Ivy network so I don't hear that language much. Just watched the Princeton-Cornell mlax game and Carc had to have said freshman at least 20 times...the freshman Goldstein.
I think power play comes from the PLL. Carc and Quint are big fans and have brought that to their college broadcasts.
Seems to me that I've heard attacker and defender since first becoming interested in wlax (hasn't really been that long).
You don't hear Oangemen re Cuse anymore, it's just the Orange...no genders allowed.

Carc is an outlier. I have been to 20-30 college hockey/lax games this year (since Oct 2023) and the programs and announcers without fail used "first year," as do almost all of the streams I watch.

Well the Ivy League Athletics press site uses freshman or freshmen regularly, all of the Ivy rosters list them as Freshmen, pretty much all of the schools' own press sites use those words regularly. Inside Lacrosse lists the Top 50 Freshmen, not First Years. Pretty much all the major sports networks say "freshman" or "true freshman" etc. So, let's just say that if someone is trying to use the other terminology, it's not typical.

That said, UVA has always called them First Years.

"Instead of the usual freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior designations, UVA students are known as first-year, second-year, third-year, and fourth-year students. This is a nod to Thomas Jefferson’s belief that learning is a lifelong journey and should therefore continue long past one’s “senior” status."
https://expertadmissions.com/spotlight- ... ”%20status.

http://hoostories.blogspot.com/2014/08/ ... lingo.html

So, not exactly some sort of 'woke' thing.

I don't have an issue with a rookie announcer who covers hockey saying 'power play', but when lacrosse guys who know better, it's offensive to me. You know the lingo, use it correctly...but then I'm a fuddy duddy, I also don't see all the need to make comparisons to others sports all the time either. Call the game with the assumption that the audience will 'get it' with exposure.

[Jumbo]

Things change
At one time the positions in lacrosse were : Att - In Home, Out Home, First Attack... Mids- Second Attack, Center, Second Defense ... D was Point , Coverpoint and First Defense.
By rule Goalies wore jersey numbers 1-9, Defense 10-19, Middies 20-39 and Attack 40-49. I believe JHU followed this rule until the early 70's

Interesting.

When did the terminology re positions change in the men's game?...I never heard my dad and his friends who played in the '40's and '50's use those terms. They did refer to a crease attack man, and crease defenseman, and center middie, as my era did, but not those other terms. Earlier?

The women's side was doing those or similar terms as you suggest in the '70's and '80's...

We didn't call poles in the midfield LSM's in the '70's but that made sense to adopt within a few years, nor was the term FOGO used back then, as most stayed on. My HS classmate in '76 was the first face-off specialist in HS to be recognized as such as all-state, at least in Maryland. A true FOGO. But the specialization had started a bit earlier if I recall...but again, most stayed on.

i think a lot of these terms come from the far north teams like the NESCAC and IVY schools. lots of those kids play both hockey and lacrosse. the commentators for those schools use terms like center line, power play, and puck. it’s disrespectful and lazy in my opinion. imagine watching a baseball game and the commentators call the ump a ref. or a pitching change as “subbing from the box”
i played in the 80 in the mid atlantic and most of the terms of then, are still used today. we did have crease defense and crease attack. didn’t have anything like playing X or fogo.

[BlueJaySince1947]

Things change
At one time the positions in lacrosse were : Att - In Home, Out Home, First Attack... Mids- Second Attack, Center, Second Defense ... D was Point , Coverpoint and First Defense.
By rule Goalies wore jersey numbers 1-9, Defense 10-19, Middies 20-39 and Attack 40-49. I believe JHU followed this rule until the early 70's

Interesting.

When did the terminology re positions change in the men's game?...I never heard my dad and his friends who played in the '40's and '50's use those terms. They did refer to a crease attack man, and crease defenseman, and center middie, as my era did, but not those other terms. Earlier?

The women's side was doing those or similar terms as you suggest in the '70's and '80's...

We didn't call poles in the midfield LSM's in the '70's but that made sense to adopt within a few years, nor was the term FOGO used back then, as most stayed on. My HS classmate in '76 was the first face-off specialist in HS to be recognized as such as all-state, at least in Maryland. A true FOGO. But the specialization had started a bit earlier if I recall...but again, most stayed on.

In the 1940s attackmen were still attackmen...

[DMac]

I don't have an issue with a rookie announcer who covers hockey saying 'power play', but when lacrosse guys who know better, it's offensive to me. You know the lingo, use it correctly...but then I'm a fuddy duddy, I also don't see all the need to make comparisons to others sports all the time either. Call the game with the assumption that the audience will 'get it' with exposure.

Completely agree with this, if it's a hockey guy I get it.
I don't like hearing, take the air out of the ball either.
Makes no sense used in lacrosse.
I actually heard Carc say pitch instead of field the other
day. That's wayyyyyyyyy out of bounds, made me crazy!!

[DMac]

Carc is an outlier. I have been to 20-30 college hockey/lax games this year (since Oct 2023) and the programs and announcers without fail used "first year," as do almost all of the streams I watch.

Nope, he's not an outlier, might be that way in the little circle you're operating in but certainly not everywhere.
Tell me I'm mistaken in that fr is an abbreviation for freshman here.
https://cuse.com/sports/womens-lacrosse/roster
Or here.
https://goheels.com/sports/womens-lacrosse/roster
See what they call their boys at Hopkins...and do I see
attack in there?
https://hopkinssports.com/sports/mens-lacrosse/roster

[MDlaxfan76]

Things change
At one time the positions in lacrosse were : Att - In Home, Out Home, First Attack... Mids- Second Attack, Center, Second Defense ... D was Point , Coverpoint and First Defense.
By rule Goalies wore jersey numbers 1-9, Defense 10-19, Middies 20-39 and Attack 40-49. I believe JHU followed this rule until the early 70's

Interesting.

When did the terminology re positions change in the men's game?...I never heard my dad and his friends who played in the '40's and '50's use those terms. They did refer to a crease attack man, and crease defenseman, and center middie, as my era did, but not those other terms. Earlier?

The women's side was doing those or similar terms as you suggest in the '70's and '80's...

We didn't call poles in the midfield LSM's in the '70's but that made sense to adopt within a few years, nor was the term FOGO used back then, as most stayed on. My HS classmate in '76 was the first face-off specialist in HS to be recognized as such as all-state, at least in Maryland. A true FOGO. But the specialization had started a bit earlier if I recall...but again, most stayed on.

In the 1940s attackmen were still attackmen...

Thanks, yes.
70’s, 80’s, 90’s…now too, overwhelmingly.

My question went more to whether those other terms were ever used commonly on the men’s side and if so, when did that change?

I recall my sister using those terms in the 70’s and having difficulty understanding their logic( I probably didn’t try hard!). Less so today, right? Question is for fans of the women’s game.

[old salt]

ECPO = extra cis-person offense... or just " + ".

[molo]

I’m 74 and began to follow lax in elementary school when my father was a hs coach. I knew the old names of the positions because they showed up in the score books, but they were never used, at least as far back as the late 50s. In other words, coaches and players never said,” Look out for number 12. He’s a great out cover point.” Descriptive terms, like crease attack or feeder referring to roles were used just as we use X attackman or off ball defenseman now were used to describe roles but were not official names of positions.
The only old term that mattered then, as it does now, was in home, which refers to the first attackman listed in the score book. It has nothing to do with that player’s style of play—feeder, creaseman, wing shooter, lefty sniper, etc.— but simply means that he is the one who would serve any penalty assessed against the team, not a specific player. Before games the lead official would ask the head coaches for the names of their captains and in homes.
When I coached a women’s hs team for one season in the late 90s, the specific position names were still used. Fortunately, my assistant, who had played on LI and at TU, was familiar with the nomenclature. My wife, who played hs lax in the 60s, said they used the specific names when she played, but from what I understand, now in women’s lax they just use attack, midfield, defense, and goalie.

[The Orfling]

Things change
At one time the positions in lacrosse were : Att - In Home, Out Home, First Attack... Mids- Second Attack, Center, Second Defense ... D was Point , Coverpoint and First Defense.
By rule Goalies wore jersey numbers 1-9, Defense 10-19, Middies 20-39 and Attack 40-49. I believe JHU followed this rule until the early 70's

Interesting.

When did the terminology re positions change in the men's game?...I never heard my dad and his friends who played in the '40's and '50's use those terms. They did refer to a crease attack man, and crease defenseman, and center middie, as my era did, but not those other terms. Earlier?

The women's side was doing those or similar terms as you suggest in the '70's and '80's...

We didn't call poles in the midfield LSM's in the '70's but that made sense to adopt within a few years, nor was the term FOGO used back then, as most stayed on. My HS classmate in '76 was the first face-off specialist in HS to be recognized as such as all-state, at least in Maryland. A true FOGO. But the specialization had started a bit earlier if I recall...but again, most stayed on.

In the 1940s attackmen were still attackmen...

Thanks, yes.
70’s, 80’s, 90’s…now too, overwhelmingly.

My question went more to whether those other terms were ever used commonly on the men’s side and if so, when did that change?

I recall my sister using those terms in the 70’s and having difficulty understanding their logic( I probably didn’t try hard!). Less so today, right? Question is for fans of the women’s game.

In the 1980s the women's game definitely used the "old style" terminology: the three low attack were "first home, second home, and third home" and the defenders covering them were "point, cover point, and third man." (And despite jokes about "third woman," definitely "third man" was used.). At the midfield, the terminology was center (took the draws) and then two "attack wings" covered by two "defense wings." Teams mainly played man defense back then so it really was "well a point needs to be able to do these skills to guard the first home." There was a short period in the mid-1980s when University of New Hampshire (coached by a hall of fame field hockey coach who was assigned lax as her second coaching responsibility) realized you could pack 10 players in front of the goal as long as they were willing to get hit with the ball and they won a national championship with mostly field hockey players who had picked up lacrosse once they got to college. That's when women's lax instituted the "shooting space" rule (players can't be in a direct line from the shooter to goal unless they are basically playing active D on them within about a stick's length) and the defensive three seconds rule (defender cannot be within a semi-circular arc from goal line extended going out 12 meters for more than three seconds unless marking an opponent within a stick length) came into play.

I would say that in the 1990s as more men began to coach in the women's game at the youth and college levels, the terms started to change, and by the 2000s the terminology was pretty similar to men's (although obviously you don't have "short stick" or "long stick" as modifiers). Teams also learned by the 1990s how to play a zone even with the shooting space and defensive three second rules. You'd hear "close defense," "crease attack," "offensive midfielder," "defensive midfielder." Made me a little sad to have the quirky old-style names go away but the modern women's game (with more forgiving sticks allowing for more offensive moves) is in good shape.

On the "freshmen" vs "first years" -- as a Yale alum, at some point (maybe in the 2010s?) the school switched to using the gender neutral "first year" -- I like it better than the mostly-ironic "freshperson" that sometimes would float around in the 1980s at the student level. I'm sure "freshman" is used a lot colloquially still but I don't have any problem with the update and I try to use the terminology of my alma mater when talking about today's students even if I and my contemporaries still historically correctly refer to our "freshman year."

[NattyBohChamps04]

On the "freshmen" vs "first years" -- as a Yale alum, at some point (maybe in the 2010s?) the school switched to using the gender neutral "first year" -- I like it better than the mostly-ironic "freshperson" that sometimes would float around in the 1980s at the student level. I'm sure "freshman" is used a lot colloquially still but I don't have any problem with the update and I try to use the terminology of my alma mater when talking about today's students even if I and my contemporaries still historically correctly refer to our "freshman year."

I went to a school that had a lot of co-op and study abroad kids. We regularly had kids stay for 5 years just because of academics. A good number of engineering and science heavy schools are similar. It was simply easier saying what year you were (1st through 5th, sometimes 6th ). This was 25 years ago. Add in various red-shirt reasons and a good chunk of our players' years didn't match up to their traditional freshman through senior terminology.

Then you throw in the COVID year that made things even crazier.

It's just simpler sticking to years IMHO.

[MDlaxfan76]

Things change
At one time the positions in lacrosse were : Att - In Home, Out Home, First Attack... Mids- Second Attack, Center, Second Defense ... D was Point , Coverpoint and First Defense.
By rule Goalies wore jersey numbers 1-9, Defense 10-19, Middies 20-39 and Attack 40-49. I believe JHU followed this rule until the early 70's

Interesting.

When did the terminology re positions change in the men's game?...I never heard my dad and his friends who played in the '40's and '50's use those terms. They did refer to a crease attack man, and crease defenseman, and center middie, as my era did, but not those other terms. Earlier?

The women's side was doing those or similar terms as you suggest in the '70's and '80's...

We didn't call poles in the midfield LSM's in the '70's but that made sense to adopt within a few years, nor was the term FOGO used back then, as most stayed on. My HS classmate in '76 was the first face-off specialist in HS to be recognized as such as all-state, at least in Maryland. A true FOGO. But the specialization had started a bit earlier if I recall...but again, most stayed on.

In the 1940s attackmen were still attackmen...

Thanks, yes.
70’s, 80’s, 90’s…now too, overwhelmingly.

My question went more to whether those other terms were ever used commonly on the men’s side and if so, when did that change?

I recall my sister using those terms in the 70’s and having difficulty understanding their logic( I probably didn’t try hard!). Less so today, right? Question is for fans of the women’s game.

In the 1980s the women's game definitely used the "old style" terminology: the three low attack were "first home, second home, and third home" and the defenders covering them were "point, cover point, and third man." (And despite jokes about "third woman," definitely "third man" was used.). At the midfield, the terminology was center (took the draws) and then two "attack wings" covered by two "defense wings." Teams mainly played man defense back then so it really was "well a point needs to be able to do these skills to guard the first home." There was a short period in the mid-1980s when University of New Hampshire (coached by a hall of fame field hockey coach who was assigned lax as her second coaching responsibility) realized you could pack 10 players in front of the goal as long as they were willing to get hit with the ball and they won a national championship with mostly field hockey players who had picked up lacrosse once they got to college. That's when women's lax instituted the "shooting space" rule (players can't be in a direct line from the shooter to goal unless they are basically playing active D on them within about a stick's length) and the defensive three seconds rule (defender cannot be within a semi-circular arc from goal line extended going out 12 meters for more than three seconds unless marking an opponent within a stick length) came into play.

I would say that in the 1990s as more men began to coach in the women's game at the youth and college levels, the terms started to change, and by the 2000s the terminology was pretty similar to men's (although obviously you don't have "short stick" or "long stick" as modifiers). Teams also learned by the 1990s how to play a zone even with the shooting space and defensive three second rules. You'd hear "close defense," "crease attack," "offensive midfielder," "defensive midfielder." Made me a little sad to have the quirky old-style names go away but the modern women's game (with more forgiving sticks allowing for more offensive moves) is in good shape.

On the "freshmen" vs "first years" -- as a Yale alum, at some point (maybe in the 2010s?) the school switched to using the gender neutral "first year" -- I like it better than the mostly-ironic "freshperson" that sometimes would float around in the 1980s at the student level. I'm sure "freshman" is used a lot colloquially still but I don't have any problem with the update and I try to use the terminology of my alma mater when talking about today's students even if I and my contemporaries still historically correctly refer to our "freshman year."

ahh, yes, Yale's men's roster uses First Year.

I agree NattyBoh that it's simpler...the politically correct stuff, I get and am happy to oblige, I just think that this is simply respectful of each other, independent of gender. And makes sense for simplicity...but no one should get up in arms about it. Colloquial usage remains high re freshman.

I remember learning in my first week at Dartmouth that my female classmates were 'women' not 'girls'. Didn't bother me a bit to modify my terms to suit their preference. Hanging out with my future bride from that week forward, with the upper class women in her dorm, I learned a lot about differences in perspective. It was the 5th year of women at Dartmouth and "Co-Hog" songs were still being sung outside the women's dorms. Women were still being bussed in for the Freshman Mixer from Smith, Holyoke, Wheaton, etc, with guys holding up scores as they got off the bus. She and her pals from the class ahead of us founded the first two sororities on campus, and she was the second President of Kappa Kappa Gamma. It took many years before houses were secured for them.

Nor did modifying the school song, Men of Dartmouth, bother me...particularly as it was my future bride's senior secret society that took the first whack at new lyrics!

https://www.dartmouth.edu/library/raune ... 20services)%2C%20was

[Unknown Participant]

Carc is an outlier. I have been to 20-30 college hockey/lax games this year (since Oct 2023) and the programs and announcers without fail used "first year," as do almost all of the streams I watch.

Nope, he's not an outlier, might be that way in the little circle you're operating in but certainly not everywhere.
Tell me I'm mistaken in that fr is an abbreviation for freshman here.
https://cuse.com/sports/womens-lacrosse/roster
Or here.
https://goheels.com/sports/womens-lacrosse/roster
See what they call their boys at Hopkins...and do I see
attack in there?
https://hopkinssports.com/sports/mens-lacrosse/roster

Here is my anecdotal evidence:

https://dartmouthsports.com/sports/mens-lacrosse/roster

https://dartmouthsports.com/sports/mens ... key/roster

I watched the Holy Cross/AIC Atlantic Hockey semifinal game last night on stream and the color guy referred to a player as a freshman during the first period. Someone got to him obviously because the rest of the way it was "first year."

And if I recall, Carc, despite using the term freshman, used the term "attacker" in most of yesterday's broadcast.

[mdk01]

Things change
At one time the positions in lacrosse were : Att - In Home, Out Home, First Attack... Mids- Second Attack, Center, Second Defense ... D was Point , Coverpoint and First Defense.
By rule Goalies wore jersey numbers 1-9, Defense 10-19, Middies 20-39 and Attack 40-49. I believe JHU followed this rule until the early 70's

Interesting.

When did the terminology re positions change in the men's game?...I never heard my dad and his friends who played in the '40's and '50's use those terms. They did refer to a crease attack man, and crease defenseman, and center middie, as my era did, but not those other terms. Earlier?

The women's side was doing those or similar terms as you suggest in the '70's and '80's...

We didn't call poles in the midfield LSM's in the '70's but that made sense to adopt within a few years, nor was the term FOGO used back then, as most stayed on. My HS classmate in '76 was the first face-off specialist in HS to be recognized as such as all-state, at least in Maryland. A true FOGO. But the specialization had started a bit earlier if I recall...but again, most stayed on.

i think a lot of these terms come from the far north teams like the NESCAC and IVY schools. lots of those kids play both hockey and lacrosse. the commentators for those schools use terms like center line, power play, and puck. it’s disrespectful and lazy in my opinion. imagine watching a baseball game and the commentators call the ump a ref. or a pitching change as “subbing from the box”
i played in the 80 in the mid atlantic and most of the terms of then, are still used today. we did have crease defense and crease attack. didn’t have anything like playing X or fogo.

Puck? I'll make allowances but that goes too far. Never heard that in either New England or the Mid-Atlantic.