Big 12 Adding Women Lacrosse in 2024-2025

[carrollax]

I don't see any of the AAC teams leaving their conference. They are arguably the 3rd best conference in womens lacrosse and outside of Temple and Cincy, all relatively within the same region

[SoCal]

How do you figure that the AAC is “arguably the 3rd best league” in women’s lacrosse? Curious what metrics you are using.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I don't see any of the AAC teams leaving their conference. They are arguably the 3rd best conference in womens lacrosse.

Fully agree. The Ivy ain't what it used to be. No other conference apart from the ACC and Big 10 can boast two heavyweights like JMU and Florida.

[SoCal]

So is the metric top 10 programs?

[RollTheCrease]

I don't see any of the AAC teams leaving their conference. They are arguably the 3rd best conference in womens lacrosse and outside of Temple and Cincy, all relatively within the same region

Agree, I don’t see any teams from the AAC leaving to become affiliate members of the Big12. I cannot see an SEC team like Florida or Vandy making this move. And JMU will want to stay aligned with Florida. It’s probably more likely the SEC will be looking to add wlax now, and in doing so will be looking for their own affiliate members. If the AAC teams were to make any moves, geographically they are better aligned with the SEC. Things will get real interesting if FSU and Clemson are able to leave the ACC. If any team is likely to join the Big12 it seems like USF becoming a full conference member makes most sense. The ASUN may be the conference the BIG12 has to initially pull affiliate members from until they get more teams from full conference programs. I also agree the AAC is the third best conference today and will only get stronger when USF gets their program fully up and running.

[SoCal]

This was told to ‘24 recruits last Sept by at least one of the head coaches at the initial 3 Big 12 schools.

Guessing they didn’t release this now without talks being pretty far down the road with at least 3 other schools to join the conference for lax.

Geographically, Denver would make a lot of sense. They are affiliate members of the PAC12 in women’s gymnastics so they have a relationship with the conference.

Do you think any current BIG XII schools are gonna add? Another school to consider is Lindenwood in St. Louis. They fit geographically as well, they're between Cincinnati and Boulder.

SDSU
UC DAVIS
LINDENWOOD

Lindenwood is part of the ASUN and I suspect they signed a multi-year deal. I also don’t know that their football program is at a level to compete in the Big 12. They can compete in the Sunbelt conference though.

I was talking about all of the teams as affiliate members for women's lacrosse. None of them would be very competitive in BIG 12 football

I’ll be interested to see if any other schools in the Big12 take the opportunity to jump in - UCF, Baylor, Houston, etc. Florida is obviously hot for lax right now so UCF seems like a possibility, and the time is right for Texas (how can they have zero D1 teams still).

Otherwise the likely candidates are others who are affiliate members - SDSU and UC Davis the obvious candidates who are conference-less with the demise of Pac12. Beyond that, Lindenwood, Florida, Vanderbilt, Denver, JMU, Liberty, Kennesaw are all affiliates (or will be soon).

We can talk affiliates, but much of the conversation needs to be around schools that are part of the Big 12 creating a women's lacrosse team.

The ASUN schools are: Coastal Carolina, Jacksonville, Kennesaw State, Liberty, Lindenwood, Queens, Stetson.

I consider it highly unlikely Liberty moves as an affiliate to Big 12, given their men's team just moved to Conference USA in 2023. Liberty also has a good shot of winning the ASUN, potentially multiple years in a row, if Jacksonville falls off (due to the coaching change). Liberty may have a ton of money, but they aren't going to swap conferences and miss an opportunity to win the ASUN. I'd rule them out for now.

It's highly unlikely Vandy makes the move to Big 12, given their football team's current conference. (I think this gives more fuel to the SEC to start Women's Lacrosse to balance out the scholarship numbers).

Lindenwood is also completely unprepared to move their football team to the Big 12. Lindenwood is now ASUN and while they had a decent first year showing as a D1 (3-4 in conference, 8-10 overall), they have a ways to go to become a competitive powerhouse. The Big 12 wouldn't be knocking down their door to pull them in. No way. No how.

Kennesaw State can be lumped in with Lindenwood in terms of performance. They are starting to pull some better athletes, but they were 3-4 in conference and 5-13 overall. The Big 12 doesn't need them.

The same can be said for the Queens (4-3, 10-8 overall) as a new D1 program, and let's be real on Stetson. They are bottom of the barrel of the ASUN, so unless they think the Big 12 will be easier (hint: it won't), I don't see them bailing either.

I don't see Denver moving either--Big 12 is a downgrade.

Here are my most likely candidates to start a women's program (existing in the Big 12).

Utah (has a men's program)
Arizona
TCU
BYU
TT

Highly unlikely to add women's lacrosse (exiting in Big 12) in the near term
Kansas (no base in KS)
Kansas State (no base in KS)
Baylor (don't care about womens athletics)
Houston (they aren't trailblazers)
Iowa State (no base)
OK State (no base)
WVU (no money and a small overall athletic department)

I think once the first Texas P5 school falls (going from zero to one is the hardest part), you'll see the other universities adopting lacrosse. The Texas HS football coaches hate the idea that lacrosse could compete with them in any way, shape, or form for facilities, field usage, or any other lucrative money grab, such as Spring 7s, etc. But once it happens, you'll see lacrosse spread across the Texas landscape like a prairie fire. They already have some solid club teams in Texas, so it's eventually coming.

It wont be Arizona. They are considering eliminating ALL of their sports.

[SoCal]

I don't see any of the AAC teams leaving their conference. They are arguably the 3rd best conference in womens lacrosse and outside of Temple and Cincy, all relatively within the same region

Agree, I don’t see any teams from the AAC leaving to become affiliate members of the Big12. I cannot see an SEC team like Florida or Vandy making this move. And JMU will want to stay aligned with Florida. It’s probably more likely the SEC will be looking to add wlax now, and in doing so will be looking for their own affiliate members. If the AAC teams were to make any moves, geographically they are better aligned with the SEC. Things will get real interesting if FSU and Clemson are able to leave the ACC. If any team is likely to join the Big12 it seems like USF becoming a full conference member makes most sense. The ASUN may be the conference the BIG12 has to initially pull affiliate members from until they get more teams from full conference programs. I also agree the AAC is the third best conference today and will only get stronger when USF gets their program fully up and running.

Can someone please tell me what the metrics are for saying AAC is 3rd best conference? According to the NCAA rankings the Big Ten have an average ranking of 20 and 4 top 20 programs, the ACC have an average ranking of 27.10 and 5 top 20 programs, the Big East have an average ranking of 42.71 and 3 top 20 programs and the AAC have an average ranking of 44.14 and 2 top 20 programs.

[Relax77]

I don't see any of the AAC teams leaving their conference. They are arguably the 3rd best conference in womens lacrosse and outside of Temple and Cincy, all relatively within the same region

Agree, I don’t see any teams from the AAC leaving to become affiliate members of the Big12. I cannot see an SEC team like Florida or Vandy making this move. And JMU will want to stay aligned with Florida. It’s probably more likely the SEC will be looking to add wlax now, and in doing so will be looking for their own affiliate members. If the AAC teams were to make any moves, geographically they are better aligned with the SEC. Things will get real interesting if FSU and Clemson are able to leave the ACC. If any team is likely to join the Big12 it seems like USF becoming a full conference member makes most sense. The ASUN may be the conference the BIG12 has to initially pull affiliate members from until they get more teams from full conference programs. I also agree the AAC is the third best conference today and will only get stronger when USF gets their program fully up and running.

Can someone please tell me what the metrics are for saying AAC is 3rd best conference? According to the NCAA rankings the Big Ten have an average ranking of 20 and 4 top 20 programs, the ACC have an average ranking of 27.10 and 5 top 20 programs, the Big East have an average ranking of 42.71 and 3 top 20 programs and the AAC have an average ranking of 44.14 and 2 top 20 programs.

I actually thought the Patriot was better than the AAC last year as a whole.

[SoCal]

I don't see any of the AAC teams leaving their conference. They are arguably the 3rd best conference in womens lacrosse and outside of Temple and Cincy, all relatively within the same region

Agree, I don’t see any teams from the AAC leaving to become affiliate members of the Big12. I cannot see an SEC team like Florida or Vandy making this move. And JMU will want to stay aligned with Florida. It’s probably more likely the SEC will be looking to add wlax now, and in doing so will be looking for their own affiliate members. If the AAC teams were to make any moves, geographically they are better aligned with the SEC. Things will get real interesting if FSU and Clemson are able to leave the ACC. If any team is likely to join the Big12 it seems like USF becoming a full conference member makes most sense. The ASUN may be the conference the BIG12 has to initially pull affiliate members from until they get more teams from full conference programs. I also agree the AAC is the third best conference today and will only get stronger when USF gets their program fully up and running.

Can someone please tell me what the metrics are for saying AAC is 3rd best conference? According to the NCAA rankings the Big Ten have an average ranking of 20 and 4 top 20 programs, the ACC have an average ranking of 27.10 and 5 top 20 programs, the Big East have an average ranking of 42.71 and 3 top 20 programs and the AAC have an average ranking of 44.14 and 2 top 20 programs.

I actually thought the Patriot was better than the AAC last year as a whole.

Patriot has an average ranking of 54.3 and 2 top 20 programs

[Relax77]

I don't see any of the AAC teams leaving their conference. They are arguably the 3rd best conference in womens lacrosse and outside of Temple and Cincy, all relatively within the same region

Agree, I don’t see any teams from the AAC leaving to become affiliate members of the Big12. I cannot see an SEC team like Florida or Vandy making this move. And JMU will want to stay aligned with Florida. It’s probably more likely the SEC will be looking to add wlax now, and in doing so will be looking for their own affiliate members. If the AAC teams were to make any moves, geographically they are better aligned with the SEC. Things will get real interesting if FSU and Clemson are able to leave the ACC. If any team is likely to join the Big12 it seems like USF becoming a full conference member makes most sense. The ASUN may be the conference the BIG12 has to initially pull affiliate members from until they get more teams from full conference programs. I also agree the AAC is the third best conference today and will only get stronger when USF gets their program fully up and running.

Can someone please tell me what the metrics are for saying AAC is 3rd best conference? According to the NCAA rankings the Big Ten have an average ranking of 20 and 4 top 20 programs, the ACC have an average ranking of 27.10 and 5 top 20 programs, the Big East have an average ranking of 42.71 and 3 top 20 programs and the AAC have an average ranking of 44.14 and 2 top 20 programs.

I actually thought the Patriot was better than the AAC last year as a whole.

Patriot has an average ranking of 54.3 and 2 top 20 programs

Navy 25 In regular ranking. Lehigh 35 in RPI. Cincy 38. ECU 41. If not better, just about the same. Patriot league has 10 teams which gives them a worse avg. Think if you took the top 4 or 5 teams it’s even. At least until USF gets there. Also believe Loyola, Florida and JMU drop out of the top 10 next year which may make it even closer.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I have no idea what kind of metric measurement one might use to determine which conference is third best in D1 women’s lacrosse. Sounds analyt-icky to me, whatever it might be. (Emphasis on icky.) 

Thank goodness we can still use our eyes and brains to determine which teams are best without hiring some math geek to create spreadsheets and algorithms to point the way for the sheep. Most of it's crap based on some flawed verkakta formula anyway. (Baaaaaaa!)

But you and I, we've been through that. Or so ol' Elston Gunnn once uttered.

Relying on the good old eye test and basic common sense, it’s merely logical to conclude that no other conferences excepting the ACC and Big 10 have two perennially top 10-ish upper tier teams, like JMU and Florida are, and have been, for years now. It's got nothing to do with where they may finish in the future. As it stands now, the AAC clearly is number three. In the pre-covid days--the Ivy was the unquestioned number three (and further back, number two). But with the Ancient Eight compelled to take the 2021 season off—Penn alone now stands as the elite Ivy League team, with Princeton, Dartmouth, Yale, et al. still in catch up mode.

[SoCal]

I have no idea what kind of metric measurement one might use to determine which conference is third best in D1 women’s lacrosse. Sounds analyt-icky to me, whatever it might be. (Emphasis on icky.) 

Thank goodness we can still use our eyes and brains to determine which teams are best without hiring some math geek to create spreadsheets and algorithms to point the way for the sheep. Most of it's crap based on some flawed verkakta formula anyway. (Baaaaaaa!)

But you and I, we've been through that. Or so ol' Elston Gunnn once uttered.

Relying on the good old eye test and basic common sense, it’s merely logical to conclude that no other conferences excepting the ACC and Big 10 have two perennially top 10-ish upper tier teams, like JMU and Florida are, and have been, for years now. It's got nothing to do with where they may finish in the future. As it stands now, the AAC clearly is number three. In the pre-covid days--the Ivy was the unquestioned number three (and further back, number two). But with the Ancient Eight compelled to take the 2021 season off—Penn alone now stands as the elite Ivy League team, with Princeton, Dartmouth, Yale, et al. still in catch up mode.

Okay so the metric is top 10 programs. Thanks for the lecture tho, pops.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Okay so the metric is top 10 programs. Thanks for the lecture tho, pops.

Anytime, son.

[hooligan88]

First the Vandy comment. Alabama is an associate big 12 member in a few sports so them doing womens lax in the big 12 would likely work. A few of these schools have said yes to sports if the conference has enough teams. That has always been the problem. If done right it can pay for itself and in the day of NILs it can happen now. WVU had a juco branch that had a team, they wanted out of it because juco is dying (their words). The league will have a healthy conference, i have no doubts but I hope it will pave the way for mens to follow up.

[610Lax]

This was told to ‘24 recruits last Sept by at least one of the head coaches at the initial 3 Big 12 schools.

Guessing they didn’t release this now without talks being pretty far down the road with at least 3 other schools to join the conference for lax.

Geographically, Denver would make a lot of sense. They are affiliate members of the PAC12 in women’s gymnastics so they have a relationship with the conference.

Do you think any current BIG XII schools are gonna add? Another school to consider is Lindenwood in St. Louis. They fit geographically as well, they're between Cincinnati and Boulder.

SDSU
UC DAVIS
LINDENWOOD

Lindenwood is part of the ASUN and I suspect they signed a multi-year deal. I also don’t know that their football program is at a level to compete in the Big 12. They can compete in the Sunbelt conference though.

I was talking about all of the teams as affiliate members for women's lacrosse. None of them would be very competitive in BIG 12 football

I’ll be interested to see if any other schools in the Big12 take the opportunity to jump in - UCF, Baylor, Houston, etc. Florida is obviously hot for lax right now so UCF seems like a possibility, and the time is right for Texas (how can they have zero D1 teams still).

Otherwise the likely candidates are others who are affiliate members - SDSU and UC Davis the obvious candidates who are conference-less with the demise of Pac12. Beyond that, Lindenwood, Florida, Vanderbilt, Denver, JMU, Liberty, Kennesaw are all affiliates (or will be soon).

We can talk affiliates, but much of the conversation needs to be around schools that are part of the Big 12 creating a women's lacrosse team.

They are starting the conference in 2024-25. So the next 3 members won't be schools that are starting new lacrosse programs. They will be schools moving from a conference to the new Big 12.

[LaxDadMax]

This was told to ‘24 recruits last Sept by at least one of the head coaches at the initial 3 Big 12 schools.

Guessing they didn’t release this now without talks being pretty far down the road with at least 3 other schools to join the conference for lax.

Geographically, Denver would make a lot of sense. They are affiliate members of the PAC12 in women’s gymnastics so they have a relationship with the conference.

Do you think any current BIG XII schools are gonna add? Another school to consider is Lindenwood in St. Louis. They fit geographically as well, they're between Cincinnati and Boulder.

SDSU
UC DAVIS
LINDENWOOD

Lindenwood is part of the ASUN and I suspect they signed a multi-year deal. I also don’t know that their football program is at a level to compete in the Big 12. They can compete in the Sunbelt conference though.

I was talking about all of the teams as affiliate members for women's lacrosse. None of them would be very competitive in BIG 12 football

I’ll be interested to see if any other schools in the Big12 take the opportunity to jump in - UCF, Baylor, Houston, etc. Florida is obviously hot for lax right now so UCF seems like a possibility, and the time is right for Texas (how can they have zero D1 teams still).

Otherwise the likely candidates are others who are affiliate members - SDSU and UC Davis the obvious candidates who are conference-less with the demise of Pac12. Beyond that, Lindenwood, Florida, Vanderbilt, Denver, JMU, Liberty, Kennesaw are all affiliates (or will be soon).

We can talk affiliates, but much of the conversation needs to be around schools that are part of the Big 12 creating a women's lacrosse team.

The ASUN schools are: Coastal Carolina, Jacksonville, Kennesaw State, Liberty, Lindenwood, Queens, Stetson.

I consider it highly unlikely Liberty moves as an affiliate to Big 12, given their men's team just moved to Conference USA in 2023. Liberty also has a good shot of winning the ASUN, potentially multiple years in a row, if Jacksonville falls off (due to the coaching change). Liberty may have a ton of money, but they aren't going to swap conferences and miss an opportunity to win the ASUN. I'd rule them out for now.

It's highly unlikely Vandy makes the move to Big 12, given their football team's current conference. (I think this gives more fuel to the SEC to start Women's Lacrosse to balance out the scholarship numbers).

Lindenwood is also completely unprepared to move their football team to the Big 12. Lindenwood is now ASUN and while they had a decent first year showing as a D1 (3-4 in conference, 8-10 overall), they have a ways to go to become a competitive powerhouse. The Big 12 wouldn't be knocking down their door to pull them in. No way. No how.

Kennesaw State can be lumped in with Lindenwood in terms of performance. They are starting to pull some better athletes, but they were 3-4 in conference and 5-13 overall. The Big 12 doesn't need them.

The same can be said for the Queens (4-3, 10-8 overall) as a new D1 program, and let's be real on Stetson. They are bottom of the barrel of the ASUN, so unless they think the Big 12 will be easier (hint: it won't), I don't see them bailing either.

I don't see Denver moving either--Big 12 is a downgrade.

Here are my most likely candidates to start a women's program (existing in the Big 12).

Utah (has a men's program)
Arizona
TCU
BYU
TT

Highly unlikely to add women's lacrosse (exiting in Big 12) in the near term
Kansas (no base in KS)
Kansas State (no base in KS)
Baylor (don't care about womens athletics)
Houston (they aren't trailblazers)
Iowa State (no base)
OK State (no base)
WVU (no money and a small overall athletic department)

I think once the first Texas P5 school falls (going from zero to one is the hardest part), you'll see the other universities adopting lacrosse. The Texas HS football coaches hate the idea that lacrosse could compete with them in any way, shape, or form for facilities, field usage, or any other lucrative money grab, such as Spring 7s, etc. But once it happens, you'll see lacrosse spread across the Texas landscape like a prairie fire. They already have some solid club teams in Texas, so it's eventually coming.

Well, Arizona just announced it has a nine-figure athletic budget deficit so they won't be adding a team anytime soon. Agree Utah is most likely, followed by TCU.

Have already heard decent chance SMU adds it before the end of the decade and they would likely be a big XI affiliate.

[SocalGeoff]

When will the affiliate programs be announced?

[cltlax]

Have already heard decent chance SMU adds it before the end of the decade and they would likely be a big XI affiliate.

Why would SMU leave the ACC (which they just announced they are joining) to be an affiliate member of the Big12?

[RollTheCrease]

When will the affiliate programs be announced?

I can’t imagine anything will happen until after this coming season. Would these affiliates jeopardize their ability to earn their current conference AQ to the NCAA tournament by making an announcement any sooner?

[LaxDadMax]

Have already heard decent chance SMU adds it before the end of the decade and they would likely be a big XI affiliate.

Why would SMU leave the ACC (which they just announced they are joining) to be an affiliate member of the Big12?

Forgot about that.