January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[MDlaxfan76]

Pretty sure my predictions of 2018 and then 2020 were far more accurate than some on here.

There are all sorts of variables affecting potential outcomes between here and 2022. My exchange with salty above addresses Pelosi's likely tactics on this specific matter given the current landscape.

My own prediction is that the Dems will hang the Jan 6 insurrection on the GOP far more effectively than if the GOP contributed constructively to the commission that is inevitable. Likewise, my prediction is that they will hang Trump's corruption around the GOP's neck far more effectively than if the GOP had distanced themselves from him.

But Pelosi is making it clear to the public that the GOP is rejecting those opportunities.

My prediction is this is going to get much, much harder for Trumpists to defend.
Yet, they will, greatly to the GOP's detriment.

Doesn't mean these are the only factors important to 2022, but if the GOP plasters themselves to Trump and defends the insurrection, it may well swamp all else.

[jhu72]

.... Petey, you are of course aware that 8 of the top 10 states in terms of homicides per capita (2021) voted for republicans.

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9.0 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Tennessee (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

[cradleandshoot]

.... Petey, you are of course aware that 8 of the top 10 states in terms of homicides per capita (2021) voted for republicans.

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9.0 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Tennessee (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

Chicago ain't a state is it? they can out murder most of these states on a good weekend. Per capita that is. Who runs Chicago? i think they have some pretty strict gun laws there. You would not know it by their murder rates though. Dodge City on a drunken cowboy night in the 1880's was probably a safer place to be than in Chicago circa 2021. What about them strict gun laws?? Could it be that criminals and gangbangers don't give a flying fig about gun laws?

[jhu72]

.... Petey, you are of course aware that 8 of the top 10 states in terms of homicides per capita (2021) voted for republicans.

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9.0 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Tennessee (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

Chicago ain't a state is it? they can out murder most of these states on a good weekend. Per capita that is. Who runs Chicago? i think they have some pretty strict gun laws there. You would not know it by their murder rates though. Dodge City on a drunken cowboy night in the 1880's was probably a safer place to be than in Chicago circa 2021. What about them strict gun laws?? Could it be that criminals and gangbangers don't give a flying fig about gun laws?

... Illinois is 11th on the list for homicide rate.

Florida has a higher "death by firearm rate" than Illinois, Maryland, etc., all with stronger gun control laws. Definition of homicide varies from state to state. Florida has more "deaths by firearm" not counted as homicides (7.5 per 100K) than they do homicides (5 per 100K). So either Florida has a huge suicide problem (having been there, I can understand that ), or their definition of homicide undercounts. You know, like a white man shooting and killing a black man is classified as an accident or suicide.

Maryland by comparison has 2.8 non-homicide gun deaths for every 9.0 homicide deaths. Illinois is very similar, maybe Marylanders (and Illini) are just better shots.

You want to talk about gun control, you get a very different picture when you look at the most meaningful indicator - "gun deaths per 100K".

New York (4.4), Massachusetts (3.4) and other New England states have only 25% to 35% the gun deaths per 100K that Florida (12.6) has. Strong controls vs little or no control.

[PizzaSnake]

.... Petey, you are of course aware that 8 of the top 10 states in terms of homicides per capita (2021) voted for republicans.

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9.0 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Tennessee (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

Chicago ain't a state is it? they can out murder most of these states on a good weekend. Per capita that is. Who runs Chicago? i think they have some pretty strict gun laws there. You would not know it by their murder rates though. Dodge City on a drunken cowboy night in the 1880's was probably a safer place to be than in Chicago circa 2021. What about them strict gun laws?? Could it be that criminals and gangbangers don't give a flying fig about gun laws?

... Illinois is 11th on the list for homicide rate.

Florida has a higher "death by firearm rate" than Illinois, Maryland, etc., all with stronger gun control laws. Definition of homicide varies from state to state. Florida has more "deaths by firearm" not counted as homicides (7.5 per 100K) than they do homicides (5 per 100K). So either Florida has a huge suicide problem (having been there, I can understand that ), or their definition of homicide undercounts. You know, like a white man shooting and killing a black man is classified as an accident or suicide.

Maryland by comparison has 2.8 non-homicide gun deaths for every 9.0 homicide deaths. Illinois is very similar, maybe Marylanders (and Illini) are just better shots.

You want to talk about gun control, you get a very different picture when you look at the most meaningful indicator - "gun deaths per 100K".

New York (4.4), Massachusetts (3.4) and other New England states have only 25% to 35% the gun deaths per 100K that Florida (12.6) has. Strong controls vs little or know control.

Just wait, Tejas is going to make a strong stretch run to take the crown...

[cradleandshoot]

.... Petey, you are of course aware that 8 of the top 10 states in terms of homicides per capita (2021) voted for republicans.

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9.0 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Tennessee (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

Chicago ain't a state is it? they can out murder most of these states on a good weekend. Per capita that is. Who runs Chicago? i think they have some pretty strict gun laws there. You would not know it by their murder rates though. Dodge City on a drunken cowboy night in the 1880's was probably a safer place to be than in Chicago circa 2021. What about them strict gun laws?? Could it be that criminals and gangbangers don't give a flying fig about gun laws?

... Illinois is 11th on the list for homicide rate.

Florida has a higher "death by firearm rate" than Illinois, Maryland, etc., all with stronger gun control laws. Definition of homicide varies from state to state. Florida has more "deaths by firearm" not counted as homicides (7.5 per 100K) than they do homicides (5 per 100K). So either Florida has a huge suicide problem (having been there, I can understand that ), or their definition of homicide undercounts. You know, like a white man shooting and killing a black man is classified as an accident or suicide.

Maryland by comparison has 2.8 non-homicide gun deaths for every 9.0 homicide deaths. Illinois is very similar, maybe Marylanders (and Illini) are just better shots.

You want to talk about gun control, you get a very different picture when you look at the most meaningful indicator - "gun deaths per 100K".

New York (4.4), Massachusetts (3.4) and other New England states have only 25% to 35% the gun deaths per 100K that Florida (12.6) has. Strong controls vs little or no control.

Gun control does not mean jack diddly squat to criminals who don't care about the law to begin with. If gun control worked then you would not see the gun homicides in Chicago every damn weekend. Someday maybe that fact will come into focus in your brilliant PhD noodle. Maybe you could could do a secondary doctorate dissertation defining why some Americans just don't give a chit about obeying the law? IMO it is pretty basic... they don't give a flying fig about the law. This could keep your active and agile mind busy for a couple of years at least.

[jhu72]

.... Petey, you are of course aware that 8 of the top 10 states in terms of homicides per capita (2021) voted for republicans.

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9.0 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Tennessee (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

Chicago ain't a state is it? they can out murder most of these states on a good weekend. Per capita that is. Who runs Chicago? i think they have some pretty strict gun laws there. You would not know it by their murder rates though. Dodge City on a drunken cowboy night in the 1880's was probably a safer place to be than in Chicago circa 2021. What about them strict gun laws?? Could it be that criminals and gangbangers don't give a flying fig about gun laws?

... Illinois is 11th on the list for homicide rate.

Florida has a higher "death by firearm rate" than Illinois, Maryland, etc., all with stronger gun control laws. Definition of homicide varies from state to state. Florida has more "deaths by firearm" not counted as homicides (7.5 per 100K) than they do homicides (5 per 100K). So either Florida has a huge suicide problem (having been there, I can understand that ), or their definition of homicide undercounts. You know, like a white man shooting and killing a black man is classified as an accident or suicide.

Maryland by comparison has 2.8 non-homicide gun deaths for every 9.0 homicide deaths. Illinois is very similar, maybe Marylanders (and Illini) are just better shots.

You want to talk about gun control, you get a very different picture when you look at the most meaningful indicator - "gun deaths per 100K".

New York (4.4), Massachusetts (3.4) and other New England states have only 25% to 35% the gun deaths per 100K that Florida (12.6) has. Strong controls vs little or no control.

Gun control does not mean jack diddly squat to criminals who don't care about the law to begin with. If gun control worked then you would not see the gun homicides in Chicago every damn weekend. Someday maybe that fact will come into focus in your brilliant PhD noodle. Maybe you could could do a secondary doctorate dissertation defining why some Americans just don't give a chit about obeying the law? IMO it is pretty basic... they don't give a flying fig about the law. This could keep your active and agile mind busy for a couple of years at least.

You have a binary mind. Sorry, but it is more complicated than you think. One example, Chicago, doesn't mean gun control does not work anywhere. It means Chicago is different, a special case. New York, big city, it works. Same for Boston. Same for Honolulu. Same for dozens of other cities. Same for a number of states.

[cradleandshoot]

.... Petey, you are of course aware that 8 of the top 10 states in terms of homicides per capita (2021) voted for republicans.

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9.0 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Tennessee (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

Chicago ain't a state is it? they can out murder most of these states on a good weekend. Per capita that is. Who runs Chicago? i think they have some pretty strict gun laws there. You would not know it by their murder rates though. Dodge City on a drunken cowboy night in the 1880's was probably a safer place to be than in Chicago circa 2021. What about them strict gun laws?? Could it be that criminals and gangbangers don't give a flying fig about gun laws?

... Illinois is 11th on the list for homicide rate.

Florida has a higher "death by firearm rate" than Illinois, Maryland, etc., all with stronger gun control laws. Definition of homicide varies from state to state. Florida has more "deaths by firearm" not counted as homicides (7.5 per 100K) than they do homicides (5 per 100K). So either Florida has a huge suicide problem (having been there, I can understand that ), or their definition of homicide undercounts. You know, like a white man shooting and killing a black man is classified as an accident or suicide.

Maryland by comparison has 2.8 non-homicide gun deaths for every 9.0 homicide deaths. Illinois is very similar, maybe Marylanders (and Illini) are just better shots.

You want to talk about gun control, you get a very different picture when you look at the most meaningful indicator - "gun deaths per 100K".

New York (4.4), Massachusetts (3.4) and other New England states have only 25% to 35% the gun deaths per 100K that Florida (12.6) has. Strong controls vs little or no control.

Gun control does not mean jack diddly squat to criminals who don't care about the law to begin with. If gun control worked then you would not see the gun homicides in Chicago every damn weekend. Someday maybe that fact will come into focus in your brilliant PhD noodle. Maybe you could could do a secondary doctorate dissertation defining why some Americans just don't give a chit about obeying the law? IMO it is pretty basic... they don't give a flying fig about the law. This could keep your active and agile mind busy for a couple of years at least.

You have a binary mind. Sorry, but it is more complicated than you think. One example, Chicago, doesn't mean gun control does not work anywhere. It means Chicago is different, a special case. New York, big city, it works. Same for Boston. Same for Honolulu. Same for dozens of other cities. Same for a number of states.

My simple binary mind tells me that criminals will not obey gun laws. That same simple binary mind tells me law abiding citizens will obey gun laws. They have done so here in NYS with the SAFE act. They hate the law but they respect it. Tell me why that is so?

[Typical Lax Dad]

.... Petey, you are of course aware that 8 of the top 10 states in terms of homicides per capita (2021) voted for republicans.

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9.0 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Tennessee (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

Chicago ain't a state is it? they can out murder most of these states on a good weekend. Per capita that is. Who runs Chicago? i think they have some pretty strict gun laws there. You would not know it by their murder rates though. Dodge City on a drunken cowboy night in the 1880's was probably a safer place to be than in Chicago circa 2021. What about them strict gun laws?? Could it be that criminals and gangbangers don't give a flying fig about gun laws?

... Illinois is 11th on the list for homicide rate.

Florida has a higher "death by firearm rate" than Illinois, Maryland, etc., all with stronger gun control laws. Definition of homicide varies from state to state. Florida has more "deaths by firearm" not counted as homicides (7.5 per 100K) than they do homicides (5 per 100K). So either Florida has a huge suicide problem (having been there, I can understand that ), or their definition of homicide undercounts. You know, like a white man shooting and killing a black man is classified as an accident or suicide.

Maryland by comparison has 2.8 non-homicide gun deaths for every 9.0 homicide deaths. Illinois is very similar, maybe Marylanders (and Illini) are just better shots.

You want to talk about gun control, you get a very different picture when you look at the most meaningful indicator - "gun deaths per 100K".

New York (4.4), Massachusetts (3.4) and other New England states have only 25% to 35% the gun deaths per 100K that Florida (12.6) has. Strong controls vs little or no control.

Gun control does not mean jack diddly squat to criminals who don't care about the law to begin with. If gun control worked then you would not see the gun homicides in Chicago every damn weekend. Someday maybe that fact will come into focus in your brilliant PhD noodle. Maybe you could could do a secondary doctorate dissertation defining why some Americans just don't give a chit about obeying the law? IMO it is pretty basic... they don't give a flying fig about the law. This could keep your active and agile mind busy for a couple of years at least.

You have a binary mind. Sorry, but it is more complicated than you think. One example, Chicago, doesn't mean gun control does not work anywhere. It means Chicago is different, a special case. New York, big city, it works. Same for Boston. Same for Honolulu. Same for dozens of other cities. Same for a number of states.

My simple binary mind tells me that criminals will not obey gun laws. That same simple binary mind tells me law abiding citizens will obey gun laws. They have done so here in NYS with the SAFE act. They hate the law but they respect it. Tell me why that is so?

Chicago has an odd history
https://www.chicagoganghistory.com/

https://www.chicagoreporter.com/chicago ... d-too/?amp

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory. ... s/497.html

[cradleandshoot]

.... Petey, you are of course aware that 8 of the top 10 states in terms of homicides per capita (2021) voted for republicans.

Louisiana (12.4 per 100,000 people)
Missouri (9.8 per 100,000 people)
Nevada (9.1 per 100,000 people)
Maryland (9.0 per 100,000 people)
Arkansas (8.6 per 100,000 people)
Alaska (8.4 per 100,000 people)
Alabama (8.3 per 100,000 people)
Mississippi (8.2 per 100,000 people)
Tennessee (7.8 per 100,000 people)
South Carolina (7.8 per 100,000 people)

Chicago ain't a state is it? they can out murder most of these states on a good weekend. Per capita that is. Who runs Chicago? i think they have some pretty strict gun laws there. You would not know it by their murder rates though. Dodge City on a drunken cowboy night in the 1880's was probably a safer place to be than in Chicago circa 2021. What about them strict gun laws?? Could it be that criminals and gangbangers don't give a flying fig about gun laws?

... Illinois is 11th on the list for homicide rate.

Florida has a higher "death by firearm rate" than Illinois, Maryland, etc., all with stronger gun control laws. Definition of homicide varies from state to state. Florida has more "deaths by firearm" not counted as homicides (7.5 per 100K) than they do homicides (5 per 100K). So either Florida has a huge suicide problem (having been there, I can understand that ), or their definition of homicide undercounts. You know, like a white man shooting and killing a black man is classified as an accident or suicide.

Maryland by comparison has 2.8 non-homicide gun deaths for every 9.0 homicide deaths. Illinois is very similar, maybe Marylanders (and Illini) are just better shots.

You want to talk about gun control, you get a very different picture when you look at the most meaningful indicator - "gun deaths per 100K".

New York (4.4), Massachusetts (3.4) and other New England states have only 25% to 35% the gun deaths per 100K that Florida (12.6) has. Strong controls vs little or no control.

Gun control does not mean jack diddly squat to criminals who don't care about the law to begin with. If gun control worked then you would not see the gun homicides in Chicago every damn weekend. Someday maybe that fact will come into focus in your brilliant PhD noodle. Maybe you could could do a secondary doctorate dissertation defining why some Americans just don't give a chit about obeying the law? IMO it is pretty basic... they don't give a flying fig about the law. This could keep your active and agile mind busy for a couple of years at least.

You have a binary mind. Sorry, but it is more complicated than you think. One example, Chicago, doesn't mean gun control does not work anywhere. It means Chicago is different, a special case. New York, big city, it works. Same for Boston. Same for Honolulu. Same for dozens of other cities. Same for a number of states.

My simple binary mind tells me that criminals will not obey gun laws. That same simple binary mind tells me law abiding citizens will obey gun laws. They have done so here in NYS with the SAFE act. They hate the law but they respect it. Tell me why that is so?

Chicago has an odd history
https://www.chicagoganghistory.com/

https://www.chicagoreporter.com/chicago ... d-too/?amp

http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory. ... s/497.html

Chicago does have a very odd history. Not obeying the law is as ingrained in Chicago tradition as a stuffed crust pizza. Nobody really seems to be able to explain why some of the strictest gun laws in the USA just don't work. Why wont these criminals obey the law, it makes no sense at all.

[Brooklyn]

right wingers insisted on having endless investigations into Benghazi but want to side step the matter of the treasonous insurrection:



https://i.imgur.com/x8XQU4q.jpeg


https://i.imgur.com/D7lxk8O.mp4

[CU88]

Mother of deceased Capitol Police officer presses GOP senators to back Jan. 6 commission

Gladys Sicknick, mother of Brian Sicknick, requested sit-downs with Republicans to discuss “the importance” of an independent investigation into the deadly insurrection — as a key Senate vote looms.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/2 ... n-6-490943

[cradleandshoot]

Mother of deceased Capitol Police officer presses GOP senators to back Jan. 6 commission

Gladys Sicknick, mother of Brian Sicknick, requested sit-downs with Republicans to discuss “the importance” of an independent investigation into the deadly insurrection — as a key Senate vote looms.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/2 ... n-6-490943

She should get what she is asking for. There are a ton of questions left unanswered after 1/6/21. There was an epic fail from the leadership level in DC.

[CU88]

Larry Sabato @LarrySabato

An alternate #January6thCommission. Created by executive order with only the two co-chairs appointed by Pres. Biden: Pres. George W. Bush(R) and Pres. Barack Obama(D). Bush and Obama pick the remaining members. Mix of public & private funding. Commission determines end date.


Carlos Mucha @mucha_carlos

Not to do Larry’s work for him, so put on the commission the only member of Congress w/ authority to issue committee subpoenas on his own signature. That will get you all the docs; hard cases that refuse to testify before commission can be hauled before subcommittee. cc @ossoff

Carlos Mucha @mucha_carlos

Fun fact, the only Senator with the unilateral power to issue subpoenas is Jon @ossoff, who was just named chairman of Joe McCarthy’s old outfit, the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (of what’s now called the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee)

[jhu72]

Larry Sabato @LarrySabato

An alternate #January6thCommission. Created by executive order with only the two co-chairs appointed by Pres. Biden: Pres. George W. Bush(R) and Pres. Barack Obama(D). Bush and Obama pick the remaining members. Mix of public & private funding. Commission determines end date.


Carlos Mucha @mucha_carlos

Not to do Larry’s work for him, so put on the commission the only member of Congress w/ authority to issue committee subpoenas on his own signature. That will get you all the docs; hard cases that refuse to testify before commission can be hauled before subcommittee. cc @ossoff

Carlos Mucha @mucha_carlos

Fun fact, the only Senator with the unilateral power to issue subpoenas is Jon @ossoff, who was just named chairman of Joe McCarthy’s old outfit, the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (of what’s now called the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee)

... I wondered last week why they weren't considering a Presidential Commission. Seems like the obvious solution to the problem. Dems should enlist Sicknick's mom to run TV ads shaming the republiCONs.

[Brooklyn]

... I wondered last week why they weren't considering a Presidential Commission. Seems like the obvious solution to the problem. Dems should enlist Sicknick's mom to run TV ads shaming the republiCONs.

Good idea. It's time to make the Repukies pay for their crime and treason.

[PizzaSnake]

Will this personal appeal sway the resistant?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpos ... story.html

[Brooklyn]

18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
U.S. Code

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death





https://i0.wp.com/www.pledgebank.com/pi ... nalty.jpeg



The ideal solution to the crimes committed on January 6. Only a traitor would disagree.

[old salt]

We're not confident that the FBi & DoJ will unearth sufficient evidence of a conspiracy, so we need an extralegal political mechanism to establish that conspiracy, ...before the 2022 election.

[seacoaster]

We're not confident that the FBi & DoJ will unearth sufficient evidence of a conspiracy, so we need an extralegal political mechanism to establish that conspiracy, ...before the 2022 election.

You want, instead, to deep six Republican complicity with and encouragement in an uprising that overwhelmed the cops, stormed through the private offices of elected representatives of government, and exhibited a lawlessness that our capitol hasn't really ever seen. Check, as usual. You know, I am certain, that this needs review and investigation, every bit as much or more than most things investigated by the Congress. But your post is on brand: mock it and hide it because it will likely show GOP perfidy.

A Presidential Commission is a nice idea. Larry Sabato suggests co-chairs Bush 2 and Obama, and they choose the membership of the Commission and timetable. But the issue is subpoena power, and the ability to compel the disclosure of records and testimony.