CAC 2020

[RetiredCardinal]

IMO the CAC is done. Losing six teams (Wesley, Marymount, FSU, York, SoVa and St Mary’s) over the last three years is not a good development for the long term health of the CAC. Over the last couple years, I have heard about the CAC expanding into NJ with Montclair St and maybe Stockton, but with these defections, I wonder if it even matters.

I have to think the SoVa exit has more to do with geography versus competition – although that road trip to Huntingdon in Alabama is gonna be a killer! From a competition standpoint, I see this similar to the loss of Wesley and Marymount – no biggie.

St Mary’s is intriguing. First the positives. Coach Childs is doing a great job with the Seahawks program. His recruiting outreach is starting to attract quality players from various regions including pulling players from JuCo & MIAA schools. From what I understand he is also re-engaging the alumni group which is important to growing the program. From a competition side, on the surface, this appears to clearly be an “AQ grab”. The best team in the NEAC is Morrisville St – a team that competes in conference but gets smoked by top OOC opponents. SMCM should easily be a regular to the NEAC AQ as Salisbury has been in the CAC. SMCM has only achieved a CAC championship three times since ’93 and was always the proverbial ‘runt of the litter’ in the CAC behind SU, YCP and CNU. Even with YCP leaving, SMCM would only be third-best. Gotta wonder how this will impact recruiting. I would suspect telling recruits you will get to compete against some of the best (Gulls, Spartans, Captains) to now telling them to hop on a bus for 8 hours (16 hours round trip) to play a bunch of schmoes in NY – but hey, we will get an AQ every year and be in the NCAA bracket, isn’t as sexy. Sadly, the NEAC competition will not make SMCM better.

As for the Gulls, I think folks should pump the brakes on any D1 talk (which is always an interesting discussion in this forum – I will creep up again whenever SU wins their next Natty). I do not know all of the rules of multi-divisional schools, but I assume it is complicated. I suspect what this will mean is the Gulls will be a free agent trying to find a conference. The AQ is important for sure and with the CAC defections that AQ will also go away. Perhaps the Gulls try to find a new home. Perhaps SU joins the CSAC with Stockton and Montclair instead of them coming to CAC?? Personally, I would love to see the Gulls in the Centennial and form a power conference in the South like NESCAC in the North, but I’m sure that’s unlikely.

Lastly, I am curious as to what discussions might be going on down in Newport News. CNU plays a heavy ODAC OOC schedule, could they be the next to drop from the CAC?

[River Donkey]

Centennial and ODAC will never accept state schools into the conference’s. CSAC or MAC could be landing spot for SU. Or, and I’m reaching here I realize, but would SU ever go D2??

[thatsmell]

The good news is the ability to capture an AQ will be easier. For lax and many other sports for smc. On paper, they automatically become the top dog in many sports.
The bad news is the SOS will take a hit and the road trips will be much longer.
I see smc doing their best to renew and keep close rivalries for the ooc games. Maryland, VA and SO PA teams- CAC, ODAC, Centennial games should be the priority adds for Childs.

[swf]

Happy Holidays Smell,
Agree with you on AQ & travel for SMCM; Cardinal on the Gulls and Susky on state schools. In a perfect world SMCM would join the Centennial. They fit academically, size and in a lot of other ways. AQ tough neighborhood but that's what rivalries are all about.

Gulls & Captains have a couple years to figure things out.

[thatsmell]

I think this is a good thing for smc.
They value academics first. And this conference will let them excel in athletics from time to time.
I agree with some other sentiment though. I wonder if this is a permanent change or a stopgap as the CAC has been in bad shape and on its way out for a few years now.

[boredatwork]

One of the most amazing things about this conversation over the past week or so is that no one has brought up the fact that Mary Washington is also a state school looking for a home. All the Salisbury/CNU talk, just figured I'd give the 3rd team a little shout out.

[ShoreThingMD]

I'm off the forum for a week or so and come back to all of this.. haha

Here are a few of my thoughts...

As mentioned the CAC is dead. Sad to see, because it at one point was becoming such a strong lacrosse conference. Can you imagine Salisbury, York, Stevenson, CNU, Frostburg (under Tommy Pearce) and then Mary Washington & St. Mary's? It would have been fun to watch. However, it appears that as soon as some of these teams gained some traction they left the conference or division 3 entirely. Obviously a variety of reasons ultimately came into play as to why they left, but I cannot help to think how competitive the current conference would be if those teams remained.

Regarding SVU, this seems to be a good move for them. Geographically, I think this makes a lot of sense, especially compared to some of the other options out there (or lack thereof). I expect them to be able to compete right away in this conference.

St. Mary's... I'm surprised, but I cannot judge without knowing what options they had. My first thought is related to transportation. That travel budget is going to be pretty impressive unless something changes (see below). The next thought goes to the competition... This is not a shot at the current NEAC teams, but St. Mary's should walk into a situation where they are the clear favorites for an AQ, unless something changes (see below). As Smell said, this will hurt their SOS, but will get them into the NCAA tournament (if they win). Finally, I hope they try and keep some of those traditional/rivalry games. I imagine some will be retained, but you won't be able to keep them all...

As for the remaining 3...

I read somewhere that the NEAC is losing 4 of its current full-time members, all of which are in the north division (when they split the 12 team division for other spots) Cazenovia College, Keuka College, SUNY Cobleskill, and SUNY Poly... If that is true and St. Mary's is filling one of those sports, would the NEAC be interested in realigning? I could be wrong, but 9 of the current 12 schools participate in lacrosse. Of those 9... 4 are leaving the conference in 2020, leaving 6 remaining, which includes SMCM. If that is true, I might know of 3 schools that need a home to get you back to 9... In all seriousness though, I have no idea what is the future of these 3 remaining teams. Part of me doesn't care, because I have faith in the athletic department at my alma mater and have full confidence in the program I was part of.

With all that being said, I think Salisbury being an independent would be interesting. I know Coach would do a great job keeping those historic rivalries in place, and also allow for some up and coming programs to take a swing at us. Back in the day, I personally dreaded playing the Hoods, Wesleys, and Marymounts of the world. However, I get it. We were just one sport and those schools excelled in other sports within our conference (kind of). But.. if you could be an independent and craft a competitive schedule together without really having to worry about getting a bid becuase you typically handle your business... I would be intrigued with that as well. However, I think that is a pipe dream because of funding, and other sports outside of lacrosse who are not necessarily in the same situation.

[richard]

As things shake out I could see the MAC coming into play again. It is a strong conference in most sports (football, basketball ). Lax is stronger too. Stevens and Stevenson are in. They have so many schools now that a realignment would be pretty easy.

[kramerica.inc]

There was an allusion to SMC and Galludet as being the "southern" arm of the NEAC in one of the press releases.
IMO, you could very well see NEAC expanded and catching some other CAC/Landmark schools in the next couple years.
Agree that the MAC and others may see some change too. Particularly from teams that don't have football.
You may see what's old is new and a few former CAC schools (Hood?, UMW?, Goucher?) reunite in the NEAC.
The next few years will be interesting to watch.

[DeepPocket]

I’m not sure lacrosse success factored much into any of these moves, as evident by schools with marginal lacrosse programs leaving as well. I would think there is something going on behind the scenes at the Conference level, that the public will probably never be privy to.

But if the more successful lacrosse teams did stay, the conversations here would likely be eerily similar to those on NESCAC threads. A regular season of hailing the best conference in D3 lacrosse, followed by a post season of complaining about how the system doesn’t allow the best teams the opportunities they deserve. (Not saying that I disagree with either sentiment)

[ShoreThingMD]

I’m not sure lacrosse success factored much into any of these moves, as evident by schools with marginal lacrosse programs leaving as well. I would think there is something going on behind the scenes at the Conference level, that the public will probably never be privy to.

But if the more successful lacrosse teams did stay, the conversations here would likely be eerily similar to those on NESCAC threads. A regular season of hailing the best conference in D3 lacrosse, followed by a post season of complaining about how the system doesn’t allow the best teams the opportunities they deserve. (Not saying that I disagree with either sentiment)

Oh with 100% confidence, none of these conference moves had anything to do with the success of the lacrosse teams. I was just drawing attention to the unique timing that in recent years the programs that the CAC would like to have kept seemed to have jumped ship as soon as their lacrosse teams started really gaining some traction. Stevenson starts to compete and wins a conference championship (left to MAC), Frostburg earns a national ranking (leaves for D2), York (see the path of Stevenson), etc. If I recall, Cantabene made a comment that a key factor on Stevenson's move was football-related.

As for the hypothetical lacrosse conference that could have been...eh, I guess it comes down to the mindset on those commenting... I for one was happy to see York and Stevenson/Villa Julie improve and become competitive, especially against teams outside of our conference. In fact, I remember a year when VJC/Stevenson beat Cortland early in the season. The guys on our team were like "ok then" and we immediately wanted our shot at the mustangs. Similar to when York had a nice little run in 2016 and beat Gettysburg, Roanoke, and Naz in about a 2-week span, then eventually winning the CAC. That run by YCP strengthened the conference for the next few years and ultimately paved the way to some of their more recent success. The bottom line is that you need to take care of your business and not leave it in the hands of people outside that locker room. I can't say that I have any sympathy for those NESCAC teams who are left outside looking in. Each conference has it, some more than others.

[DeepPocket]

All true, Shore.

I doubt the Gulls will ever be at a loss for top flight dance partners, regardless of Conference alignment or travel considerations.

Truth be told, it’s a wonder schools are able to find regionally conducive Conferences at all, when looking at the variety of criteria they try to match up.

[sipecoth]

Centennial and ODAC will never accept state schools into the conference’s. CSAC or MAC could be landing spot for SU. Or, and I’m reaching here I realize, but would SU ever go D2??

SVU would have been an absolute natural for the ODAC, in terms of geography, private school, etc. They took them for Football, but not the rest of the sports. I don't think they are in the market for new members.

USA South members are more in line with the size of SVU - which hit an enrollment of just over 1,000 for the first time ever this year.

CAC could survive, but you are going to have to find a bunch of larger schools that want to band together in a more central geography, and I'm not sure who that would even be.

[kramerica.inc]

Schedules:

SMC:
https://www.smcmathletics.com/sports/ml ... 0/schedule

UMW:
https://umweagles.com/sports/mlax/2019-20/schedule

York:
https://www.ycpspartans.com/sports/mlax ... 0/schedule

SU:
https://www.suseagulls.com/sports/mlax/2019-20/schedule

CNU:
https://www.cnusports.com/sports/mens-l ... edule/2020

[JustPassingThrough]

On the bright side, the smaller conference means lots of good out of conference games. CNU playing everyone in VA, Salisbury with a good geographic spread, York playing PA neighbors.

[Fandadof3laxers]

Anyone have scrimmage schedules? Saw Salisbury hosting HCC from juco. Very interesting! Usually SMCM will play them too, local connections. Who’s excited to get this party started?

[DeepPocket]

CNU has 2 listed on their schedule. Randolph-Macon (1/25) and Catholic (2/1).

[ShoreThingMD]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but I heard York was scrimmaging both Cornell & Cortland next Saturday... Nice little test before W&L

[DeepPocket]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but I heard York was scrimmaging both Cornell & Cortland next Saturday... Nice little test before W&L

First I’m hearing of it. Do you have any further on it as far as time/location etc.?

[ShoreThingMD]

[quote=ShoreThingMD post_id=102912 time=<a href="tel:1579898301">1579898301</a> user_id=947]
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned or not, but I heard York was scrimmaging both Cornell & Cortland next Saturday... Nice little test before W&L

First I’m hearing of it. Do you have any further on it as far as time/location etc.?
[/quote]

I’ll see if I can get the additional details. This was given to me from a current when he was on break. I’ll see what I can find, but this would be an excellent opportunity for the Spartans, if it still holds true.