Our Undeclared Wars

[Brooklyn]

The Iranians blew holes in 6 tankers in Intl waters & shot down a multi-million $$$ unmanned aircraft in intl airspace.

...& it's all Trump's fault, he made them do it. Okie Dokie.

Where's your proof?

[get it to x]

The Iranians blew holes in 6 tankers in Intl waters & shot down a multi-million $$$ unmanned aircraft in intl airspace.

...& it's all Trump's fault, he made them do it. Okie Dokie.

Where's your proof?

Who cares? He has now shown he is a "Stable Genius". His restraint despite the urging of the Neo Cons is remarkable as his "gut" is what guides him and its almost always right.

[old salt]

One wonders what prompted the Iranians to say there were 35 personnel onboard the P-8, & how they were able to distinguish the radar target that was the P-8A from the radar target that was the MQ-4C. They're roughly comparable in radar signature. Plus, the Iranians stated that the P-8 was accompanying the MQ-4C. Not likely. I think they'd be operating independently.

India sending 2 warships to Gulf of Oman/Persian Gulf for maritime security of Indian flagged shipping.
Aerial surveillance by Indian Navy aircraft is also being undertaken in the area
https://zeenews.india.com/india/indian- ... 13097.html

[a fan]

The Iranians blew holes in 6 tankers in Intl waters & shot down a multi-million $$$ unmanned aircraft in intl airspace.

...& it's all Obama's fault, he made them do it. Okie Dokie.

Fixed it for you. I take it you have forgotten that you and other posters held Obama accountable for anything and everything that happened in the ME?

Or how much you blamed on a silly speech he made in Cairo---and that Obama's words led to death and destruction in multiple countries?

Forgot ya did that?

[a fan]

Who cares? He has now shown he is a "Stable Genius". His restraint despite the urging of the Neo Cons is remarkable as his "gut" is what guides him and its almost always right.

Stable genius? Yeah, ok. That's the message you think the Iranians received? Or is that the glowing message you think TrumpFans received, where no matter what he does, it's sparkly-perfect.

Maybe you can answer my unanswered question: tell me how the situation was improved by Trump pulling out of the nuclear deal with Iran.

Should be easy to explain. He's a stable genius, after all.

[old salt]

Patience, Mr Instant Gratification. It's a long game.

[CU77]

Except, somehow, every move Obama made in this long game was wrong, and every move Trump makes is brilliant.

You praise him today for standing up to Bolton et al and not going ahead with a 150 casualty response.

Tomorrow, if he goes ahead with it after all, you will praise that.

It doesn't matter what Trump does. Whatever it is, you will come here to tell us how brilliant it was.

[a fan]

Patience, Mr Instant Gratification. It's a long game.

Dude. You didn't say that one single time in 8 years of Obama's foreign policy. Not once. CU77 has it right.

[Trinity]

Trump’s “cocked and loaded.” Ted Cruz shoots at the “basketball ring.”

So hard to spot a phony.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Except, somehow, every move Obama made in this long game was wrong, and every move Trump makes is brilliant.

You praise him today for standing up to Bolton et al and not going ahead with a 150 casualty response.

Tomorrow, if he goes ahead with it after all, you will praise that.

It doesn't matter what Trump does. Whatever it is, you will come here to tell us how brilliant it was.

What would you call that?

[OCanada]

Trump clearly never had a plan for what would happen after he pulled the plug on the Iranian deal.

He is played by the staff. anyone crediting him with making any kind of move as if he is an informed actor here is delusional

[Brooklyn]

Who cares? He has now shown he is a "Stable Genius". His restraint despite the urging of the Neo Cons is remarkable as his "gut" is what guides him and its almost always right.

Ach, shame on me for forgetting that Trump is the second coming of the Messiah: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -dangerous

The Savior can do no wrong. Hopefully, some day, infidels like yours truly will receive an epiphany and awaken to this eternal and incontrovertible Truth.

[CU88]

Just a few names to bring up here. If any of you remember them or why they are still so significant when it comes to how many leaders of the US military still feel about the leaders of Iran.

Capt. Richard Bakke... USAF

Sgt. John Harvey... USMC

Cpl. George Holmes... USMC

Staff Sgt. Dewey Johnson... USMC

Capt. Harold Lewis... USAF

Tech Sgt. Joel Mayo... USAF

Capt. Lynn McIntosh... USAF

Capt. Charles McMillian... USAF

No offense, but I am sure that o d would call these Hero's "losers", in the same vein as John McCain.

And are you telling us the the Military just want revenge?

WOW

[old salt]

Except, somehow, every move Obama made in this long game was wrong, and every move Trump makes is brilliant.

You praise him today for standing up to Bolton et al and not going ahead with a 150 casualty response.

Tomorrow, if he goes ahead with it after all, you will praise that.

It doesn't matter what Trump does. Whatever it is, you will come here to tell us how brilliant it was.

Read my posts again. I said it was an explanation, not praise.
I was trying to assure the hysterics that we were not going to use force (yet).
Don't buy the spin coming out of DC, Iran, or the MSM.
We don't know what's said "in the room" & what the real time intel is.
We don't know if/what back channel comms took place with Iran.
I doubt that the JCS were eager to attack & escalate.

Obama has nothing to do with individual tactical decisions made now.
He's partially responsible for getting us in this mess by caving & not holding out for an effective deal before he gave away our leverage.
He misread what Iran would do with funding restored & sanctions lifted. Based on Iran's actions,
it was 100% predictable we'd be back in this spot if HRC did not win, no matter which (R) won.

What we do next is dependent upon what Iran does & what our allies do.
By pulling back & not responding to the drone loss, we're offering Iran a face saving off ramp back to the table.
Try analyzing & evaluating things based on actual current conditions & not past political prejudices.
Don't let Trump hatred cloud a rational analysis of what's taking place.

We are in an unusual position. We can defeat Iran in a war, but it's not worth the cost & the aftermath.
We are using military force to restart & enforce diplomacy.
We are in the unusual position of having a large number of forces. ships, acft, HQ's & facilities boxed in the Persian Gulf,
in a vulnerable position to be targeted by Iran's limited but specialized military capabilities.
We're not going to provoke an escalation.

I was surprised (& disappointed) that we exposed a manned P-8 aircraft & a big expensive MQ-4C, a week after Iran shot at a MQ-9. I'm not confident that Iran knew what they were shooting at & what not. Had they downed the P-8, we'd be in the midst of an all out air & naval war.

[CU77]

Read my posts again. I said it was an explanation, not praise.
I was trying to assure the hysterics that we were not going to use force (yet).
Don't buy the spin coming out of DC, Iran, or the MSM.
We don't know what's said "in the room" & what the real time intel is.

Can I believe what Trump himself says?

Which is that he called off the strike with 10 minutes to go before the window shut, and did so because he had only just learned that the projected number of Iranian casualties was 150.

So: the strike was ready, everybody was on board, including Trump. But you can "assure the hysterics that we were not going to use force".

REALLY??? You, o.s., can uniquely predict Trump's last-minute changes of mind??? And anyone who thinks that Trump just might follow the advice of Bolton et al and go ahead is a "hysteric"???

It's pure Trumpian spin. Whatever military expertise you might bring to the table is meaningless if the result of your analysis is always the same: Trump did the right thing, and anyone who thought he wouldn't is delusional.

[old salt]

Read my posts again. I said it was an explanation, not praise.
I was trying to assure the hysterics that we were not going to use force (yet).
Don't buy the spin coming out of DC, Iran, or the MSM.
We don't know what's said "in the room" & what the real time intel is.

Can I believe what Trump himself says?

Which is that he called off the strike with 10 minutes to go before the window shut, and did so because he had only just learned that the projected number of Iranian casualties was 150.

So: the strike was ready, everybody was on board, including Trump. But you can "assure the hysterics that we were not going to use force".

REALLY??? You, o.s., can uniquely predict Trump's last-minute changes of mind??? And anyone who thinks that Trump just might follow the advice of Bolton et al and go ahead is a "hysteric"???

It's pure Trumpian spin. Whatever military expertise you might bring to the table is meaningless if the result of your analysis is always the same: Trump did the right thing, and anyone who thought he wouldn't is delusional.

We don't know if back channel comms with Iran, warning of the pending attack, actually took place.
We don't know what the latest or real time intel yielded re the number of Iranian personnel at the target sites.
Maybe it is all spin. Maybe Trump never intended to follow through & it was all an attention getter.
I don't know. You don't know. Your disappointment that things did not go badly reveals your true priorities.

[a fan]

He's partially responsible for getting us in this mess

Obama and our allies got them to stop their nuke program. You act like that's a trifle. A nothing.

We all know why. He's a Dem. There's no POSSIBLE way a military guy like yourself would act like a deal to stop their nuclear plans...a deal that they were following, by even our own accounts....is nothing, and has zero value.

If you REALLY wanted to stop Iran from acting unhampered in the ME, the correct way to do that is (drumroll) Don't freaking take out Saddam and his political and military infrastructure, and retain checks and balances in the region. But as par for the course with you, you are mentally unable to blame anyone but a Democrat for anything that "goes wrong' in this region. And you keep doing this again and again and again. It's frustrating.

Even if you buy your own bullcookies, the CORRECT move was for Trump to keep the Iran nuke deal in his pocket, and sit down at the negotiating table for the rest of what he wants. And if he felt that Iran was doing something wrong (whatever that is), you threaten NEW sanctions, that have NOTHING to do with the nuclear deal.

Now you don't alienate the moderates, who are willing to sit down and talk, and you don't give the hardliners the "see, I told you you can't trust the Americans, war is the only language they understand" ammo. You. Keep. Our. Word. Pretty important to keep your word if you want to negotiate with another party.

But you don't want to hear that, because D's and R's prevent you from even considering this obvious path.

This is another case where your R's and D's thing would cause you to flunk out of the seminar. The prof would laugh you out of the room if your solution here is to "renege on the nuclear deal that everyone said they were following, and then sit down with them to renegotiate a new sparkly-awesome deal".

[old salt]

Blah, blah, blah. Now we're back to Saddam. .. Trump had nothing to do with that.

I opposed the JCPOA when adopted, based on circumstances at the time.
I predicted how I feared it would work out. I regret that events played out as I predicted.

[a fan]

Blah, blah, blah. Now we're back to Saddam. ..

Dude. You JUST blamed Obama for our current situation. He left 2 1/2 years ago.

Oh, my mistake. I forgot your rule that we're only supposed to point out past mistakes if Obama is involved, and these mistakes cannot, under any circumstances, be blamed on a Republican.

I opposed the JCPOA when adopted, based on circumstances at the time.
I predicted how I feared it would work out. I regret that events played out as I predicted.

You mean how Iran followed the rules, and still don't have a nuclear bomb? Yeah, yeah....keep pretending the deal didn't work. It spoils your entire narrative.

What's the update from US intel now that you got what you wanted, and we no longer have a nuclear deal with Iran. How long before Iran gets the bomb? Months? Years? Weeks?

[old salt]

You're the one who keeps dragging Obama back into the discussion, even when he's irrelevant to the current situation.
When he agreed to JCPOA, I warned you it would not survive a (R) Presidency.

Wait & see, Mr Instant gratification.