Israel and Zionism

[PizzaSnake]

...Biden is limiting more than their choice of a specific munition on a specific target.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/i ... erm=second

Israel Must Finish Hamas — Even without Biden’s Support

This is a grotesque betrayal of an ally during time of war — an ally Biden claimed has his “ironclad” support. But from the Israeli perspective, Biden’s decision cannot prevent the nation from its necessary goal of destroying Hamas.

Biden’s threat certainly will need to change Israeli battle plans, as the IDF will now have to consider tactically how to invade Rafah without U.S. support while still leaving enough in the tank to counter the threats from Hezbollah and Iran itself. A change in plans could very well lead to a more bloody conflict, with more IDF troops in harm’s way and more Palestinian casualties (as Biden would be cutting off deliveries of precision bombs if he follows through on his threats).

Whatever it takes, however, it is crucial for the survival of Israel to go it alone if necessary.

Right now, thanks to Biden’s actions, all of Israel’s enemies are emboldened. Iran, and its proxies, see that U.S. support for Israel is shaky. Hamas has no reason to negotiate to free hostages, because Biden is protecting the terrorist group from Israeli action on its remaining stronghold in Rafah. The IDF war effort in Gaza is flailing, with Hamas retaking areas previously held by Israel as Biden has pressured Israel into retreating from them, citing humanitarian concerns. It’s been months since there has been sustained military pressure on Hamas.

Were Israel forced by Biden to abandon its campaign against Hamas, it would be putting its population at risk from future attacks from Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah. It would signal utter helplessness and vulnerability. Hamas will have shown that it can pull off any attack on Israel, no matter how ghastly, and as long as it digs in under major population centers, it can survive.

If, instead, Israel were to go ahead with a major assault on Rafah now, it would help reestablish momentum in the war, and demonstrate that Israel is dedicated to routing out Hamas and is willing to do so at the risk of a loss in U.S. support. It would also send a powerful signal to Iran, for the future, that Israel is willing to take care of business even without support of the U.S.

More fundamentally, this is a crucial test of Israel’s national identity. Israel takes a lot of pride in being a sovereign nation. Israelis argue that the lesson of the Holocaust was that Jews cannot depend on others to rescue them, that they have to be prepared to fight for their survival even if they have to do so alone. Sacrificing Jewish security out of fear of reprimand from Joe Biden would seriously undermine this vision of Israel.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/m ... joe-biden/

Menachem Begin Warned Us about Joe Biden

In 1982, at a closed-door meeting of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Biden had threatened Begin with cutting off military aid for Israel’s offensive campaign in Lebanon. As Tevi Troy noted in the Wall Street Journal, the story went that Begin responded in fiery outrage:

" Don’t threaten us with cutting off aid to give up our principles. I’m not a Jew with trembling knees. I am a proud Jew with 3,700 years of civilized history. Nobody came to our aid when we were dying in the gas chambers and ovens. Nobody came to our aid when we were striving to create our country. We paid for it. We fought for it. We died for it. We will stand by our principles. We will defend them. And, when necessary, we will die for them again, with or without your aid."

Forty-two years later, Joe Biden has learned nothing.

But we have learned who Joe Biden truly is. That he is doing exactly what he threatened Begin with over four decades ago suggests that Biden’s actions in pledging to withhold weaponry for an Israeli offensive into Rafah, however surprising they might seem to some, are drawn from a long-standing outlook toward Israel. In other words, Biden threatening to cut off aid to the Jewish state if it takes measures against its enemies is a feature, rather than a bug, of his decades-old policy.

Menachem Begin saw clearly. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

“Israel Must Finish Hamas”

At any cost? Yes, Hamas is abhorrent and needs to be deslt with. However, isolating your country from the rest of the world is a pretty steep price. Particularly when you, Bibi, appear to be using this campaign to escape justice for the long-running corruption charges and culpability re Hamas’ pre-eminence and control of Gaza.

Does Bibi and his coalition government think the world is stupid and can’t see him for what he and they are?

As I said, “checkmate.”

[cradleandshoot]

...Biden is limiting more than their choice of a specific munition on a specific target.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/i ... erm=second

Israel Must Finish Hamas — Even without Biden’s Support

This is a grotesque betrayal of an ally during time of war — an ally Biden claimed has his “ironclad” support. But from the Israeli perspective, Biden’s decision cannot prevent the nation from its necessary goal of destroying Hamas.

Biden’s threat certainly will need to change Israeli battle plans, as the IDF will now have to consider tactically how to invade Rafah without U.S. support while still leaving enough in the tank to counter the threats from Hezbollah and Iran itself. A change in plans could very well lead to a more bloody conflict, with more IDF troops in harm’s way and more Palestinian casualties (as Biden would be cutting off deliveries of precision bombs if he follows through on his threats).

Whatever it takes, however, it is crucial for the survival of Israel to go it alone if necessary.

Right now, thanks to Biden’s actions, all of Israel’s enemies are emboldened. Iran, and its proxies, see that U.S. support for Israel is shaky. Hamas has no reason to negotiate to free hostages, because Biden is protecting the terrorist group from Israeli action on its remaining stronghold in Rafah. The IDF war effort in Gaza is flailing, with Hamas retaking areas previously held by Israel as Biden has pressured Israel into retreating from them, citing humanitarian concerns. It’s been months since there has been sustained military pressure on Hamas.

Were Israel forced by Biden to abandon its campaign against Hamas, it would be putting its population at risk from future attacks from Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah. It would signal utter helplessness and vulnerability. Hamas will have shown that it can pull off any attack on Israel, no matter how ghastly, and as long as it digs in under major population centers, it can survive.

If, instead, Israel were to go ahead with a major assault on Rafah now, it would help reestablish momentum in the war, and demonstrate that Israel is dedicated to routing out Hamas and is willing to do so at the risk of a loss in U.S. support. It would also send a powerful signal to Iran, for the future, that Israel is willing to take care of business even without support of the U.S.

More fundamentally, this is a crucial test of Israel’s national identity. Israel takes a lot of pride in being a sovereign nation. Israelis argue that the lesson of the Holocaust was that Jews cannot depend on others to rescue them, that they have to be prepared to fight for their survival even if they have to do so alone. Sacrificing Jewish security out of fear of reprimand from Joe Biden would seriously undermine this vision of Israel.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/m ... joe-biden/

Menachem Begin Warned Us about Joe Biden

In 1982, at a closed-door meeting of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Biden had threatened Begin with cutting off military aid for Israel’s offensive campaign in Lebanon. As Tevi Troy noted in the Wall Street Journal, the story went that Begin responded in fiery outrage:

" Don’t threaten us with cutting off aid to give up our principles. I’m not a Jew with trembling knees. I am a proud Jew with 3,700 years of civilized history. Nobody came to our aid when we were dying in the gas chambers and ovens. Nobody came to our aid when we were striving to create our country. We paid for it. We fought for it. We died for it. We will stand by our principles. We will defend them. And, when necessary, we will die for them again, with or without your aid."

Forty-two years later, Joe Biden has learned nothing.

But we have learned who Joe Biden truly is. That he is doing exactly what he threatened Begin with over four decades ago suggests that Biden’s actions in pledging to withhold weaponry for an Israeli offensive into Rafah, however surprising they might seem to some, are drawn from a long-standing outlook toward Israel. In other words, Biden threatening to cut off aid to the Jewish state if it takes measures against its enemies is a feature, rather than a bug, of his decades-old policy.

Menachem Begin saw clearly. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

“Israel Must Finish Hamas”

At any cost? Yes, Hamas is abhorrent and needs to be deslt with. However, isolating your country from the rest of the world is a pretty steep price. Particularly when you, Bibi, appear to be using this campaign to escape justice for the long-running corruption charges and culpability re Hamas’ pre-eminence and control of Gaza.

Does Bibi and his coalition government think the world is stupid and can’t see him for what he and they are?

As I said, “checkmate.”

They will probably look even more foolish at the end of the day if Hamas hasn't been degraded as far as is humanly possible. I'm guessing an extended cease fire would be just what the Hamas doctor ordered. When your punch drunk and ready to face plant into the canvas your always hoping the bell will ring in time.

[a fan]

National Review:

........Forty-two years later, Joe Biden has learned nothing.

But we have learned who Joe Biden truly is. That he is doing exactly what he threatened Begin with over four decades ago suggests that Biden’s actions in pledging to withhold weaponry for an Israeli offensive into Rafah, however surprising they might seem to some, are drawn from a long-standing outlook toward Israel. In other words, Biden threatening to cut off aid to the Jewish state if it takes measures against its enemies is a feature, rather than a bug, of his decades-old policy.

Menachem Begin saw clearly. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

This is why I cannot stand partisanship. It makes people stupid. It makes them unable to see how many times they contradict their own military/political advice any time a politician is involved.

How many remember what National Review had to say when BIden pulled out of Afghanistan? Don't remember?

I'll help: Radical Islamist elements are making the most of the power vacuum in Central Asia and once again aim to use Afghanistan as a base to export terrorism abroad.

We hammered Afghanistan for 20 years, yeah? Killed, what, well over 100K people?

And yet US Intel and the National Review are telling us that after all that killing, terrorists were still there.


Anyone see the math yet between what I'm driving at with Afghanistan and Gaza?

I'll make it easy: in what F'ing world can Israel or anyone eliminate or even cripple Hamas in a few short months, let along 20 years of open war? And the partisans morons National Review understood that IMMEDIATELY, simply because with this revelation, they could hit a Democrat for "not understanding this".

Yet here they are, a few years later, telling their readers and our American leaders that (snicker) Israel can wipe out Hamas.

Anyone feel like giving me their hard earned money on a wager for this? Give you 10 to 1 odds.

War won't get rid of Hamas or terrorism, especially in Palestine. Heck, their leaders and money and weapons sources don't even live in Palestine. National Review knows this, and KNEW this when we had a R in the White House who warned America against "endless, pointless wars"

Yet here they are, with Republicans in tow, NOW urging on the ultimate in pointless, endless wars. Why? Because Biden had the temerity to signal to Netanyahu that what he's doing now, and is about to expand, in May of 2024 is pointless, and counterproductive. You can't defeat Hamas with bombings....a lesson National Review gleefully pointed out when a D got us out of Afghanistan.











https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/04/ ... ll-circle/

[OCanada]

The new mythology. I fear for the future of Jews in America.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertai ... -kaffiyeh/

You and your fellow writers would do yourselves a favor if you did just five minutes of research.

These folks have been around for more than 20 years. And they pop up when the region heats up. And stop getting headlines when the conflict fades.

Know what made them disappear from view for many years? 9/11.

Context helps. Acting like these protesters and phrases like "from the river to the sea" didn't show up until this past October show an unwillingness to honestly understand this group.

Pieces like these HELP the professional protesters, OS. I wish these authors would wake up and understand that, and stop giving them the fuel they want.

So the phrase " from the river to the sea" isn't something that the Average American should be concerned about? No big deal, nothin to lose any sleep over. It doesn't actually mean what the phrase implies. Anybody on this forum have any doubts about what Iran wants the fate of Israel to be? Anybody on this forum wish to stand up and defend Irans vision for Israel? Don't be shy, don't be bashful.

Are you on the payroll, the only issue is Israel’s lust to have 100.% of the land snd no two state solution, the state was founded on a shared ownership. Israel’s government has over the decades made living in it intolerable through laws, judicial action settler violence. Ignorance of history is a fatal flaw very common on the extremist right where alternative facts rule

Iran has made it crystal clear that their vision for Israel is total destruction. I don't know how many times they have to say it until you take them seriously. You brought in ignorance of history. You want to see ignorance of history, look in the mirror. Israel has been surrounded by nations that want it annihilated. Israel does what it has to do. Hamas picked this fight knowing exactly how Israel would respond. What Hamas didn't anticipate was Bibi wouldn't quit until he neutralized them.

Sure Hamas would love a ceasefire. That is not because they give 2 chits about the Palestinian people. That is because they need the time to regroup, rearm and reorganize. Why is it you and your buds have nothing to say about Hamas deliberately using the Palestinian people as human shields? Care to chime in on that or does the cat have your tongue. If Hamas wants to duke it out with Israel then they can start by coming out of their rat holes and fight like the soldiers they claim to be. Only effing cowards hide behind the non combatants and put them in harms way.

War is HELL old sod, the world is being reintroduced to that fact. Israel is bringing the fight to the brave Hamas warriors who cower in rat holes. Unfortunately their tactics deliberately put innocent people at risk. Hamas could care less because they are playing you and your fellow tool bags like fiddles. You are the useful idiots they desperately need. To make you even angrier, the fighting and dying will continue unabated until the brave Hamas warriors quit or are eliminated. IMO Hamas made a really bad tactical decision. They did calculate one thing correctly. Seven months after they orchestrated their massacre folks are blaming Israel for the attack and are holding Israel responsible for the fate of the hostages. Is that back ass wards or what?

The ultimate objective of any war is victory over the enemy. Fighting and dying to achieve a stalemate is idiotic at face value.

Post Wed May 08, 2024 8:10 am

Let me help you here. I am far more familiar w Israel and its people than your ahistorical self is or ever will be. The goal is peace in the mideast. Your narrow right wing crap is useless in that regard. You should not try to speak down to me from your lofty perch of bigotry and short sightedness. You know little and understand less.

I don't give a chit what you THINK you know about. I spent 3 years as an 11 Bravo one papa. That is an airborne infantry soldier. I spent 3 years learning from the best in the business. When you pull your head out of your ass long enough to understand why William Tecumseh Sherman boldly and honestly declared that war is HELL then let's have a chat. Your whining and b***ing about the same collateral damage that has occurred in war for thousands of years. I'll ask the question yet again fully understanding your not knowledgeable about what war is all about. This question will do something your not accustomed to doing, hopefully affording you an opportunity to think.Why doesn't Hamas, the brave warriors that they are, come out of their rat holes and engage with the Israel army? That is what they wanted. Last question for you to ponder, why are the brave Hamas warriors using INNOCENT civilians as human shields? Even the Nazis never stooped so low as to hide behind civilians. For a guy who self proclaims to know so much about Israel your own words prove that you know diddly jack chit about Israel or about how war is conducted. Do more research before you make yourself look like a bigger ass than you already have. If your going to boast about your intricate knowledge of Israel your doing a primo job of disguising that knowledge.

Hamas is compromised of a pathetic bunch of cowards that are leading the Palestinian people like lambs to the slaughter. Why won't your Hamas heroes stand and fight?? Any answers or are you going to drift into an idiotic tangent about how much you know about Israel. Your own words bely the fact that you know nothing.

Of course no one can know anything about this except you.

But i try. Brother in Law. USN SEALS. Team 2 then Team 6. UN in Sarajevo, Iraq, Afghanistan.

Best Friend D Troop 3/5 Cavalry. LURPs He is Thankful for all the men of the Doughboys, the Long Knives, the War Wagons, the Crusaders, the Scavengers and other support personnel for his unit. Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Declined Silver Star. Vietnam.

Daily- John A. USN SEALS Vietnam

Brother: USN Medic: deceased as a consequence of NAM

Rear Admiral James “ Gentleman Jim” Calvert

4 star USMC Lt General Platt. Next door home owner.

You neglected to mention years of service and where.

Basically your entire post was off topic and irrelevant.

My father served USN North Atlantic. Mother is in the Women’s War Memorial Arlington VA. She did triage during WW ll.

Thank you for your family's service. My family has a long history of military service. We have a tradition of enlisted service. I served in the 82nd Airborne division. I was a member of A Company 2/508 Airborne Infantry. I made 37 static line jumps out of every aircraft that was available at the time. C119 ( old Shakey) C123, C130, C141, CH 47 ( great jump) and one jump from a UH1H. I guess somewhere along the way I understood what fighting in a war entailed.

My NCOs were all Vietnam combat vets with the only medal that means anything to an infantry soldier. That would be the CIB. It was the only award that ever meant anything to my dad. He was a dog face who fought in Pattons 3rd Army. The Red Diamonds to be exact. Do you know what division that was? They were a front line division from St Lo to Metz to the Bulge. I could go on and on and on with relatives that served. My Uncle Luke was an engine mechanic on Tinian. He repaired any engine that needed fixing. In his spare time he would paint the pictures on the B17 and B29 bombers.

I don't love war or glorify war. When it is time to fight a war you fight to win. Why do you think I keep bringing up that quote from WT Sherman. If people would remember that war is hell they would think twice about starting a war.

FTR don't think I forgot that you dodged my question.

WHY DOESN'T HAMAS WANT TO FIGHT THE ISRAELI ARMY? That is what they wanted. Patiently waiting your reply.

Did not dodge anything. Asymetric warfare has a very long history. Something you have not cared to understand generally or in this instance.

[OCanada]

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what ... e=hs_email

There seems to be a misunderstanding about what DOD’s mission is

Order from Chaos

Read more from
Order from Chaos
Follow the authors
@MWSBrookingsFP
It may come as a surprise to many Americans that the mission of the United States Department of Defense (DOD) is not “To fight and win the nation’s wars.” It is, instead, “to provide the military forces needed to deter war and ensure our nation’s security.”

[cradleandshoot]

The new mythology. I fear for the future of Jews in America.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertai ... -kaffiyeh/

You and your fellow writers would do yourselves a favor if you did just five minutes of research.

These folks have been around for more than 20 years. And they pop up when the region heats up. And stop getting headlines when the conflict fades.

Know what made them disappear from view for many years? 9/11.

Context helps. Acting like these protesters and phrases like "from the river to the sea" didn't show up until this past October show an unwillingness to honestly understand this group.

Pieces like these HELP the professional protesters, OS. I wish these authors would wake up and understand that, and stop giving them the fuel they want.

So the phrase " from the river to the sea" isn't something that the Average American should be concerned about? No big deal, nothin to lose any sleep over. It doesn't actually mean what the phrase implies. Anybody on this forum have any doubts about what Iran wants the fate of Israel to be? Anybody on this forum wish to stand up and defend Irans vision for Israel? Don't be shy, don't be bashful.

Are you on the payroll, the only issue is Israel’s lust to have 100.% of the land snd no two state solution, the state was founded on a shared ownership. Israel’s government has over the decades made living in it intolerable through laws, judicial action settler violence. Ignorance of history is a fatal flaw very common on the extremist right where alternative facts rule

Iran has made it crystal clear that their vision for Israel is total destruction. I don't know how many times they have to say it until you take them seriously. You brought in ignorance of history. You want to see ignorance of history, look in the mirror. Israel has been surrounded by nations that want it annihilated. Israel does what it has to do. Hamas picked this fight knowing exactly how Israel would respond. What Hamas didn't anticipate was Bibi wouldn't quit until he neutralized them.

Sure Hamas would love a ceasefire. That is not because they give 2 chits about the Palestinian people. That is because they need the time to regroup, rearm and reorganize. Why is it you and your buds have nothing to say about Hamas deliberately using the Palestinian people as human shields? Care to chime in on that or does the cat have your tongue. If Hamas wants to duke it out with Israel then they can start by coming out of their rat holes and fight like the soldiers they claim to be. Only effing cowards hide behind the non combatants and put them in harms way.

War is HELL old sod, the world is being reintroduced to that fact. Israel is bringing the fight to the brave Hamas warriors who cower in rat holes. Unfortunately their tactics deliberately put innocent people at risk. Hamas could care less because they are playing you and your fellow tool bags like fiddles. You are the useful idiots they desperately need. To make you even angrier, the fighting and dying will continue unabated until the brave Hamas warriors quit or are eliminated. IMO Hamas made a really bad tactical decision. They did calculate one thing correctly. Seven months after they orchestrated their massacre folks are blaming Israel for the attack and are holding Israel responsible for the fate of the hostages. Is that back ass wards or what?

The ultimate objective of any war is victory over the enemy. Fighting and dying to achieve a stalemate is idiotic at face value.

Post Wed May 08, 2024 8:10 am

Let me help you here. I am far more familiar w Israel and its people than your ahistorical self is or ever will be. The goal is peace in the mideast. Your narrow right wing crap is useless in that regard. You should not try to speak down to me from your lofty perch of bigotry and short sightedness. You know little and understand less.

I don't give a chit what you THINK you know about. I spent 3 years as an 11 Bravo one papa. That is an airborne infantry soldier. I spent 3 years learning from the best in the business. When you pull your head out of your ass long enough to understand why William Tecumseh Sherman boldly and honestly declared that war is HELL then let's have a chat. Your whining and b***ing about the same collateral damage that has occurred in war for thousands of years. I'll ask the question yet again fully understanding your not knowledgeable about what war is all about. This question will do something your not accustomed to doing, hopefully affording you an opportunity to think.Why doesn't Hamas, the brave warriors that they are, come out of their rat holes and engage with the Israel army? That is what they wanted. Last question for you to ponder, why are the brave Hamas warriors using INNOCENT civilians as human shields? Even the Nazis never stooped so low as to hide behind civilians. For a guy who self proclaims to know so much about Israel your own words prove that you know diddly jack chit about Israel or about how war is conducted. Do more research before you make yourself look like a bigger ass than you already have. If your going to boast about your intricate knowledge of Israel your doing a primo job of disguising that knowledge.

Hamas is compromised of a pathetic bunch of cowards that are leading the Palestinian people like lambs to the slaughter. Why won't your Hamas heroes stand and fight?? Any answers or are you going to drift into an idiotic tangent about how much you know about Israel. Your own words bely the fact that you know nothing.

Of course no one can know anything about this except you.

But i try. Brother in Law. USN SEALS. Team 2 then Team 6. UN in Sarajevo, Iraq, Afghanistan.

Best Friend D Troop 3/5 Cavalry. LURPs He is Thankful for all the men of the Doughboys, the Long Knives, the War Wagons, the Crusaders, the Scavengers and other support personnel for his unit. Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Declined Silver Star. Vietnam.

Daily- John A. USN SEALS Vietnam

Brother: USN Medic: deceased as a consequence of NAM

Rear Admiral James “ Gentleman Jim” Calvert

4 star USMC Lt General Platt. Next door home owner.

You neglected to mention years of service and where.

Basically your entire post was off topic and irrelevant.

My father served USN North Atlantic. Mother is in the Women’s War Memorial Arlington VA. She did triage during WW ll.

Thank you for your family's service. My family has a long history of military service. We have a tradition of enlisted service. I served in the 82nd Airborne division. I was a member of A Company 2/508 Airborne Infantry. I made 37 static line jumps out of every aircraft that was available at the time. C119 ( old Shakey) C123, C130, C141, CH 47 ( great jump) and one jump from a UH1H. I guess somewhere along the way I understood what fighting in a war entailed.

My NCOs were all Vietnam combat vets with the only medal that means anything to an infantry soldier. That would be the CIB. It was the only award that ever meant anything to my dad. He was a dog face who fought in Pattons 3rd Army. The Red Diamonds to be exact. Do you know what division that was? They were a front line division from St Lo to Metz to the Bulge. I could go on and on and on with relatives that served. My Uncle Luke was an engine mechanic on Tinian. He repaired any engine that needed fixing. In his spare time he would paint the pictures on the B17 and B29 bombers.

I don't love war or glorify war. When it is time to fight a war you fight to win. Why do you think I keep bringing up that quote from WT Sherman. If people would remember that war is hell they would think twice about starting a war.

FTR don't think I forgot that you dodged my question.

WHY DOESN'T HAMAS WANT TO FIGHT THE ISRAELI ARMY? That is what they wanted. Patiently waiting your reply.

Did not dodge anything. Asymetric warfare has a very long history. Something you have not cared to understand generally or in this instance.

Silly boy, I already know why. I also know that a cease-fire helps Hamas.

[Typical Lax Dad]

[jhu72]

National Review:

........Forty-two years later, Joe Biden has learned nothing.

But we have learned who Joe Biden truly is. That he is doing exactly what he threatened Begin with over four decades ago suggests that Biden’s actions in pledging to withhold weaponry for an Israeli offensive into Rafah, however surprising they might seem to some, are drawn from a long-standing outlook toward Israel. In other words, Biden threatening to cut off aid to the Jewish state if it takes measures against its enemies is a feature, rather than a bug, of his decades-old policy.

Menachem Begin saw clearly. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

This is why I cannot stand partisanship. It makes people stupid. It makes them unable to see how many times they contradict their own military/political advice any time a politician is involved.

How many remember what National Review had to say when BIden pulled out of Afghanistan? Don't remember?

I'll help: Radical Islamist elements are making the most of the power vacuum in Central Asia and once again aim to use Afghanistan as a base to export terrorism abroad.

We hammered Afghanistan for 20 years, yeah? Killed, what, well over 100K people?

And yet US Intel and the National Review are telling us that after all that killing, terrorists were still there.


Anyone see the math yet between what I'm driving at with Afghanistan and Gaza?

I'll make it easy: in what F'ing world can Israel or anyone eliminate or even cripple Hamas in a few short months, let along 20 years of open war? And the partisans morons National Review understood that IMMEDIATELY, simply because with this revelation, they could hit a Democrat for "not understanding this".

Yet here they are, a few years later, telling their readers and our American leaders that (snicker) Israel can wipe out Hamas.

Anyone feel like giving me their hard earned money on a wager for this? Give you 10 to 1 odds.

War won't get rid of Hamas or terrorism, especially in Palestine. Heck, their leaders and money and weapons sources don't even live in Palestine. National Review knows this, and KNEW this when we had a R in the White House who warned America against "endless, pointless wars"

Yet here they are, with Republicans in tow, NOW urging on the ultimate in pointless, endless wars. Why? Because Biden had the temerity to signal to Netanyahu that what he's doing now, and is about to expand, in May of 2024 is pointless, and counterproductive. You can't defeat Hamas with bombings....a lesson National Review gleefully pointed out when a D got us out of Afghanistan.











https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/04/ ... ll-circle/

... sure Israel can wipe out Hamas (at least this incarnation in Palestine). It is clear that is their plan -- kill every Palestinian in Gaza, liberate them all. Now they are mistaken that this will bring Israel peace.

[youthathletics]

National Review:

........Forty-two years later, Joe Biden has learned nothing.

But we have learned who Joe Biden truly is. That he is doing exactly what he threatened Begin with over four decades ago suggests that Biden’s actions in pledging to withhold weaponry for an Israeli offensive into Rafah, however surprising they might seem to some, are drawn from a long-standing outlook toward Israel. In other words, Biden threatening to cut off aid to the Jewish state if it takes measures against its enemies is a feature, rather than a bug, of his decades-old policy.

Menachem Begin saw clearly. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

This is why I cannot stand partisanship. It makes people stupid. It makes them unable to see how many times they contradict their own military/political advice any time a politician is involved.

How many remember what National Review had to say when BIden pulled out of Afghanistan? Don't remember?

I'll help: Radical Islamist elements are making the most of the power vacuum in Central Asia and once again aim to use Afghanistan as a base to export terrorism abroad.

We hammered Afghanistan for 20 years, yeah? Killed, what, well over 100K people?

And yet US Intel and the National Review are telling us that after all that killing, terrorists were still there.


Anyone see the math yet between what I'm driving at with Afghanistan and Gaza?

I'll make it easy: in what F'ing world can Israel or anyone eliminate or even cripple Hamas in a few short months, let along 20 years of open war? And the partisans morons National Review understood that IMMEDIATELY, simply because with this revelation, they could hit a Democrat for "not understanding this".

Yet here they are, a few years later, telling their readers and our American leaders that (snicker) Israel can wipe out Hamas.

Anyone feel like giving me their hard earned money on a wager for this? Give you 10 to 1 odds.

War won't get rid of Hamas or terrorism, especially in Palestine. Heck, their leaders and money and weapons sources don't even live in Palestine. National Review knows this, and KNEW this when we had a R in the White House who warned America against "endless, pointless wars"

Yet here they are, with Republicans in tow, NOW urging on the ultimate in pointless, endless wars. Why? Because Biden had the temerity to signal to Netanyahu that what he's doing now, and is about to expand, in May of 2024 is pointless, and counterproductive. You can't defeat Hamas with bombings....a lesson National Review gleefully pointed out when a D got us out of Afghanistan.











https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/04/ ... ll-circle/

It's even worse....

The Taliban is now working to standup and represent that which so many are in alliance with in the near/middle east....hell, even around here it seems some are picking their side. Some will argue that the DOAH Accord was yet another attempt to close the failed attempt of BHO's plan in 2009.

Year later.....
The DOAH Accord ink was barely even dried and the Taliban said eff you:

The agreement obliged the Taliban to cut their ties with al-Qaida and other terrorist groups and participate in intra-Afghan peace talks to decide on “the future political map of Afghanistan.”

It seems the Taliban is now in a position of continual negotiation with the US, using Afghanistan as their proxy to funnel money to all other terrorist groups....to include Hamas; the snake is growing. And now, b/c of years of failed attempts of peace, agreements, troop exits, etc, the table is now set, for their further growth...in the name of a now perceived legitimate central power called the Taliban. By all our exits and and the recent Afghanistan exit debacle, we have also lost credibility with a significant amount of our embedded informants that we either left behind or have no lost our trust.

We now have to play in the sandbox with those that we fought to kill and eradicate and Israel is essentially being hung out to dry.....makes you wonder, Are we helping funding the Taliban through Afghanistan....you bet, but many here have argued all that money is being tracked and accounted for: https://www.propublica.org/article/unit ... government.

[a fan]

National Review:

........Forty-two years later, Joe Biden has learned nothing.

But we have learned who Joe Biden truly is. That he is doing exactly what he threatened Begin with over four decades ago suggests that Biden’s actions in pledging to withhold weaponry for an Israeli offensive into Rafah, however surprising they might seem to some, are drawn from a long-standing outlook toward Israel. In other words, Biden threatening to cut off aid to the Jewish state if it takes measures against its enemies is a feature, rather than a bug, of his decades-old policy.

Menachem Begin saw clearly. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

This is why I cannot stand partisanship. It makes people stupid. It makes them unable to see how many times they contradict their own military/political advice any time a politician is involved.

How many remember what National Review had to say when BIden pulled out of Afghanistan? Don't remember?

I'll help: Radical Islamist elements are making the most of the power vacuum in Central Asia and once again aim to use Afghanistan as a base to export terrorism abroad.

We hammered Afghanistan for 20 years, yeah? Killed, what, well over 100K people?

And yet US Intel and the National Review are telling us that after all that killing, terrorists were still there.


Anyone see the math yet between what I'm driving at with Afghanistan and Gaza?

I'll make it easy: in what F'ing world can Israel or anyone eliminate or even cripple Hamas in a few short months, let along 20 years of open war? And the partisans morons National Review understood that IMMEDIATELY, simply because with this revelation, they could hit a Democrat for "not understanding this".

Yet here they are, a few years later, telling their readers and our American leaders that (snicker) Israel can wipe out Hamas.

Anyone feel like giving me their hard earned money on a wager for this? Give you 10 to 1 odds.

War won't get rid of Hamas or terrorism, especially in Palestine. Heck, their leaders and money and weapons sources don't even live in Palestine. National Review knows this, and KNEW this when we had a R in the White House who warned America against "endless, pointless wars"

Yet here they are, with Republicans in tow, NOW urging on the ultimate in pointless, endless wars. Why? Because Biden had the temerity to signal to Netanyahu that what he's doing now, and is about to expand, in May of 2024 is pointless, and counterproductive. You can't defeat Hamas with bombings....a lesson National Review gleefully pointed out when a D got us out of Afghanistan.











https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/04/ ... ll-circle/

It's even worse....

The Taliban is now working to standup and represent that which so many are in alliance with in the near/middle east....hell, even around here it seems some are picking their side. Some will argue that the DOAH Accord was yet another attempt to close the failed attempt of BHO's plan in 2009.

Year later.....
The DOAH Accord ink was barely even dried and the Taliban said eff you:

The agreement obliged the Taliban to cut their ties with al-Qaida and other terrorist groups and participate in intra-Afghan peace talks to decide on “the future political map of Afghanistan.”

It seems the Taliban is now in a position of continual negotiation with the US, using Afghanistan as their proxy to funnel money to all other terrorist groups....to include Hamas; the snake is growing. And now, b/c of years of failed attempts of peace, agreements, troop exits, etc, the table is now set, for their further growth...in the name of a now perceived legitimate central power called the Taliban. By all our exits and and the recent Afghanistan exit debacle, we have also lost credibility with a significant amount of our embedded informants that we either left behind or have no lost our trust.

We now have to play in the sandbox with those that we fought to kill and eradicate and Israel is essentially being hung out to dry.....makes you wonder, Are we helping funding the Taliban through Afghanistan....you bet, but many here have argued all that money is being tracked and accounted for: https://www.propublica.org/article/unit ... government.

You understand that all of this terrorist activity takes place around the world, regardless as to whether we're in Afghanistan or not, right?

And yep, how many times have I complained about "arming and funding 'some guy'". Neo-cons will NEVER learn what blowback is.

[PizzaSnake]

National Review:

........Forty-two years later, Joe Biden has learned nothing.

But we have learned who Joe Biden truly is. That he is doing exactly what he threatened Begin with over four decades ago suggests that Biden’s actions in pledging to withhold weaponry for an Israeli offensive into Rafah, however surprising they might seem to some, are drawn from a long-standing outlook toward Israel. In other words, Biden threatening to cut off aid to the Jewish state if it takes measures against its enemies is a feature, rather than a bug, of his decades-old policy.

Menachem Begin saw clearly. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

This is why I cannot stand partisanship. It makes people stupid. It makes them unable to see how many times they contradict their own military/political advice any time a politician is involved.

How many remember what National Review had to say when BIden pulled out of Afghanistan? Don't remember?

I'll help: Radical Islamist elements are making the most of the power vacuum in Central Asia and once again aim to use Afghanistan as a base to export terrorism abroad.

We hammered Afghanistan for 20 years, yeah? Killed, what, well over 100K people?

And yet US Intel and the National Review are telling us that after all that killing, terrorists were still there.


Anyone see the math yet between what I'm driving at with Afghanistan and Gaza?

I'll make it easy: in what F'ing world can Israel or anyone eliminate or even cripple Hamas in a few short months, let along 20 years of open war? And the partisans morons National Review understood that IMMEDIATELY, simply because with this revelation, they could hit a Democrat for "not understanding this".

Yet here they are, a few years later, telling their readers and our American leaders that (snicker) Israel can wipe out Hamas.

Anyone feel like giving me their hard earned money on a wager for this? Give you 10 to 1 odds.

War won't get rid of Hamas or terrorism, especially in Palestine. Heck, their leaders and money and weapons sources don't even live in Palestine. National Review knows this, and KNEW this when we had a R in the White House who warned America against "endless, pointless wars"

Yet here they are, with Republicans in tow, NOW urging on the ultimate in pointless, endless wars. Why? Because Biden had the temerity to signal to Netanyahu that what he's doing now, and is about to expand, in May of 2024 is pointless, and counterproductive. You can't defeat Hamas with bombings....a lesson National Review gleefully pointed out when a D got us out of Afghanistan.











https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/04/ ... ll-circle/

It's even worse....

The Taliban is now working to standup and represent that which so many are in alliance with in the near/middle east....hell, even around here it seems some are picking their side. Some will argue that the DOAH Accord was yet another attempt to close the failed attempt of BHO's plan in 2009.

Year later.....
The DOAH Accord ink was barely even dried and the Taliban said eff you:

The agreement obliged the Taliban to cut their ties with al-Qaida and other terrorist groups and participate in intra-Afghan peace talks to decide on “the future political map of Afghanistan.”

It seems the Taliban is now in a position of continual negotiation with the US, using Afghanistan as their proxy to funnel money to all other terrorist groups....to include Hamas; the snake is growing. And now, b/c of years of failed attempts of peace, agreements, troop exits, etc, the table is now set, for their further growth...in the name of a now perceived legitimate central power called the Taliban. By all our exits and and the recent Afghanistan exit debacle, we have also lost credibility with a significant amount of our embedded informants that we either left behind or have no lost our trust.

We now have to play in the sandbox with those that we fought to kill and eradicate and Israel is essentially being hung out to dry.....makes you wonder, Are we helping funding the Taliban through Afghanistan....you bet, but many here have argued all that money is being tracked and accounted for: https://www.propublica.org/article/unit ... government.

Yep, American strategy and leadership have certainly scuked for the last couple of hundred years. Could it be because we are insulated from Eurasia and haven’t suffered “selective” pressures? Or are white Euros just dumb? (Not exclusive or…)

[jhu72]

.... you do understand the UN claims it purchases dollars from the US and then uses the US currency in Afghanistan. Doesn't sound like it is the US's problem in terms of losing money. Didn't read the whole report, just the executive summary.

[old salt]

I do not recall the National Review advocating for a complete withdrawal from Afghanistan.
I believe they endorsed leaving the residual force that Biden's military & Intel chains of command recommended.

From the NR link cited above :
America’s presence in Afghanistan was a relatively low-cost and high-return investment not just in preventing future terrorist attacks originating from Central Asia but foreclosing on the need to introduce a larger American force on the ground as a response to some terrible contingency in the West. If nothing else, the Discord leaks demonstrate the value of that insurance policy and the Biden administration’s unwise decision to give it up.

[a fan]

I do not recall the National Review advocating for a complete withdrawal from Afghanistan.
I believe they endorsed leaving the residual force that Biden's military & Intel chains of command recommended.

From the NR link cited above :
America’s presence in Afghanistan was a relatively low-cost and high-return investment not just in preventing future terrorist attacks originating from Central Asia but foreclosing on the need to introduce a larger American force on the ground as a response to some terrible contingency in the West. If nothing else, the Discord leaks demonstrate the value of that insurance policy and the Biden administration’s unwise decision to give it up.

You remember correctly. It's why I said that if you, BIbi, and the NR all use this line of thinking: Israel is planning to occupy Gaza, and there's no way they're gonna let Palestine self govern with no one else helping.

The residual force didn't work as claimed, as a reminder. We had terrorist activity all over the globe while we were in Afghanistan, including Afghanistan itself, the US, and the EU.

Don't need Afghanistan to plan, fund, and arm attacks. Iran is enough, all by itself. Or as we've forgotten to learn, Saudi Arabia is enough to yield terrorists.

At some point we'll try a new path. If Trump did what he claimed he would do? That would have been a new path. Instead, he kept on the path.

[old salt]

I say again.

Prediction -- Fatah is being rehabilitated to succeed Hamas in administering Gaza, in addition to the West Bank.

https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/04/04/ ... ecure-aid/

[jhu72]

Some in Israel welcome Biden's pause in bomb shipments. Gideon Levy, ex-cabinet official under Shimon Peres and long-time columnist for Haaretz welcomes Biden's move shared by many families of Hamas hostages.

[old salt]

Some in Israel welcome Biden's pause in bomb shipments. Gideon Levy, ex-cabinet official under Shimon Peres and long-time columnist for Haaretz welcomes Biden's move shared by many families of Hamas hostages.

Netanyahu is not acting in isolation. He heads a coalition government that supports his plan of action.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_ ... operation/
Poll: 75% of Jewish Israelis back Rafah operation

10 March 2024, 2:55 pm

A new poll finds that around three-quarters of Jewish Israelis support an expansion of IDF operations in Gaza’s southernmost city of Rafah, where more than half of the Strip’s 2.3 million people are sheltering in the area amid the ongoing war with Hamas, while two-thirds of Arab respondents disagree.

A political orientation breakdown in the Israel Democracy Institute survey shows that 45 percent of Jewish respondents who identify as left-wing support such a move, while the center and right-wing back it to a much greater extent.

The poll also finds that Israeli are split on Jerusalem’s standing in the international arena. “The share of Arab respondents who rate Israel’s international situation as negative (63%) is larger than the equivalent share of Jewish respondents (44%),” IDI says.

Looking at Israel-US relations specifically, the poll indicates divided public opinion on whether the Jewish state can continue to rely on support from Washington. Around 40% say fully or to a large extent, 34% say a moderate extent, and 20% were pessimistic about continued backing from Washington.

[cradleandshoot]

National Review:

........Forty-two years later, Joe Biden has learned nothing.

But we have learned who Joe Biden truly is. That he is doing exactly what he threatened Begin with over four decades ago suggests that Biden’s actions in pledging to withhold weaponry for an Israeli offensive into Rafah, however surprising they might seem to some, are drawn from a long-standing outlook toward Israel. In other words, Biden threatening to cut off aid to the Jewish state if it takes measures against its enemies is a feature, rather than a bug, of his decades-old policy.

Menachem Begin saw clearly. We can’t say we weren’t warned.

This is why I cannot stand partisanship. It makes people stupid. It makes them unable to see how many times they contradict their own military/political advice any time a politician is involved.

How many remember what National Review had to say when BIden pulled out of Afghanistan? Don't remember?

I'll help: Radical Islamist elements are making the most of the power vacuum in Central Asia and once again aim to use Afghanistan as a base to export terrorism abroad.

We hammered Afghanistan for 20 years, yeah? Killed, what, well over 100K people?

And yet US Intel and the National Review are telling us that after all that killing, terrorists were still there.


Anyone see the math yet between what I'm driving at with Afghanistan and Gaza?

I'll make it easy: in what F'ing world can Israel or anyone eliminate or even cripple Hamas in a few short months, let along 20 years of open war? And the partisans morons National Review understood that IMMEDIATELY, simply because with this revelation, they could hit a Democrat for "not understanding this".

Yet here they are, a few years later, telling their readers and our American leaders that (snicker) Israel can wipe out Hamas.

Anyone feel like giving me their hard earned money on a wager for this? Give you 10 to 1 odds.

War won't get rid of Hamas or terrorism, especially in Palestine. Heck, their leaders and money and weapons sources don't even live in Palestine. National Review knows this, and KNEW this when we had a R in the White House who warned America against "endless, pointless wars"

Yet here they are, with Republicans in tow, NOW urging on the ultimate in pointless, endless wars. Why? Because Biden had the temerity to signal to Netanyahu that what he's doing now, and is about to expand, in May of 2024 is pointless, and counterproductive. You can't defeat Hamas with bombings....a lesson National Review gleefully pointed out when a D got us out of Afghanistan.











https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/04/ ... ll-circle/

... sure Israel can wipe out Hamas (at least this incarnation in Palestine). It is clear that is their plan -- kill every Palestinian in Gaza, liberate them all. Now they are mistaken that this will bring Israel peace.

Well the status quo ain't working that well if your a Jew living in Israel. How many more October 7 does Hamas have planned? Hamas picked the time and place of this war. The killing could stop tomorrow if Hamas came to their senses and quit. The sad truth is Hamas doesn't give a rats rear end about the Palestinian people. They are just pawns to be sacrificed with the destruction of Israel as the objective. So any of you folks out there believe Hamas is concerned about the killing fields of Gaza? They are safety hiding in their rat holes deep underground.

Dealing with Hamas is like playing whack a mole. They pop up here and there and get their licks in on the Israeli Army. So NONE of you jack wagons blame Hamas for the chaos they created? You only pee your pants because you think Israel has over reacted. So enlighten all of us as to how Israel should be responding?? What's the matter? The cat must have your tongue? War is hell and the Palestinian people are right smack dab in the middle. The Palestinians voted Hamas to lead them. Hamas is leading them alright.

[cradleandshoot]

Some in Israel welcome Biden's pause in bomb shipments. Gideon Levy, ex-cabinet official under Shimon Peres and long-time columnist for Haaretz welcomes Biden's move shared by many families of Hamas hostages.

Hamas is certainly giving 2 thumbs to the idea.

[cradleandshoot]

I do not recall the National Review advocating for a complete withdrawal from Afghanistan.
I believe they endorsed leaving the residual force that Biden's military & Intel chains of command recommended.

From the NR link cited above :
America’s presence in Afghanistan was a relatively low-cost and high-return investment not just in preventing future terrorist attacks originating from Central Asia but foreclosing on the need to introduce a larger American force on the ground as a response to some terrible contingency in the West. If nothing else, the Discord leaks demonstrate the value of that insurance policy and the Biden administration’s unwise decision to give it up.

You remember correctly. It's why I said that if you, BIbi, and the NR all use this line of thinking: Israel is planning to occupy Gaza, and there's no way they're gonna let Palestine self govern with no one else helping.

The residual force didn't work as claimed, as a reminder. We had terrorist activity all over the globe while we were in Afghanistan, including Afghanistan itself, the US, and the EU.

Don't need Afghanistan to plan, fund, and arm attacks. Iran is enough, all by itself. Or as we've forgotten to learn, Saudi Arabia is enough to yield terrorists.

At some point we'll try a new path. If Trump did what he claimed he would do? That would have been a new path. Instead, he kept on the path.

Well trump ain't in charge right now. It is Joe Biden blazing the path today. Joe thinks he knows how Israel should be handling this conflict. He has a unique perspective. He wants Israel to conduct combat operations in a highly dense civilian environment and do so with zero collateral damage. Of course DFJ has no idea how to accomplish this objective. Maybe Bibi should yield control of the military operation over to DFJ? Somehow those biting words of DFJs former boss come into focus. NEVER UNDERESTIMATE JOES ABILITY TO F**K THINGS UP. Withholding precision ordnance to Israel means more dumb bombs being dropped and more dead Palestinians. Way to go Dumb F**K Joe. Is it possible Joe is doing this to solidify the Muslim vote in Michigan? DFJ when he drifts in and out of reality has been told he will need Michigan to win in November.