Cornell 2024

[faircornell]

When it comes to statistics, Cornell played a really strong game against Penn. Ground Balls, Shots, CTO's all were dominated by Cornell. Penn had a small advantage of two face-offs. The difference was goalie play. Wyatt Knust had a quite respectable day with 11 saves and 48% saves versus shots faced. Emmet Carroll of Penn had 19 saves for 68%. Knust faced 23 shots. Carroll faced 28 shots. Knust had a 72% save average in Ivy play coming into this game, and a 56% save average overall (including playing time against Notre Dame, Syracuse and PSU).

[Chousnake]

FMUBart - a few things
-I did not say that Cornell didn't have the talent to dodge - from anywhere...let alone behind the net (though I do believe that Goldstein seemed to defer to others a bit more recently. Ironic, because he always looked dangerous on Friday, covered by a pole or not). What I wrote was that an offense, typically initiated by dodges (north-south) are going to be far less effective against a packed in Penn defense. Again, you only have to look at the scoring over 8 quarters to realize that. Princeton's approach and execution is/was quite different.
-While I'm an ardent Cornell lax guy, I also commented that IMO, the boys' ball movement on Friday was not nearly as effective as Princeton. 'And that the team's primary offensive threats are not coming from guys getting separation from 10-15 yards. I referenced a number of former players who were extremely dangerous shooters off of alley dodges or step-ins from way out (e.g., Dowiak, Fletcher, Buczek, Hogan, and Paoletta to name a few). This is not a team strength for Cornell.
-Yes, Kirst can dodge from anywhere, but his bread and butter is more horizontal stuff, non-straight line. And Penn physically "swarmed" to him whenever he dodged or re-dodged.

Besides better ball movement (given Penn's D) perhaps more big-little stuff trying to get a shortie on...for example Kelleher. In the March game, he had success inverting against a ss afew times, but this wasn't used until very late in the game. Same thing on Friday; I think I Cornell had a good opportunity on a Kelleher invert when he had a shorie.

We can pick this apart many ways, but there are two factors that led to the loss. First. losing Long was brutal. Cadigan can shoot, but he just is not a threat to dodge or pass. Long led the team in assists and shooting percentage. Cornell missed him terribly in this game. Second, Carroll was tremendous. He made 5-6 unbelievable saves that were the difference in the game, and Cornell hit a few pipes. This is what happens when the season comes down to one game. Unfortunate for Cornell.

I also don't agree that Cornell "lacked the athletes" to compete in 2024 as compared to 2022. This team stood toe to toe with ND and Syracuse. The talent level in the Ivy League is not inferior and Cornell was as talented and athletic as any team in the country. What they lacked was some health. Injuries to Cascadden, Long, Davis, and Bozzi were hard to overcome.

What I would like to see is a change in the EMO away from using specialists and going back to using the starting attack and 1st midfield line. That top 6 was as good as any top 6 in the nation. I never understood taking two of the 6 off the field. Plus, when the penalty ran out, Cornell was left without its best 6 players to run the normal offense.

On to 2025. Cornell brings back virtually the entire team. I am confident the coaching staff will use this season as a learning opportunity and motivation for next season.

[Red4Life]

When it comes to statistics, Cornell played a really strong game against Penn. Ground Balls, Shots, CTO's all were dominated by Cornell. Penn had a small advantage of two face-offs. The difference was goalie play. Wyatt Knust had a quite respectable day with 11 saves and 48% saves versus shots faced. Emmet Carroll of Penn had 19 saves for 68%. Knust faced 23 shots. Carroll faced 28 shots. Knust had a 72% save average in Ivy play coming into this game, and a 56% save average overall (including playing time against Notre Dame, Syracuse and PSU).

Knust faced a barrage of point blank shots while Penns Defense did a great job of pushing Big Red offense into taking less than higher quality / optimal shots!

Print the bumper sticker:
BIGRED#25

[another fan]

From the NE West 1 high school thread:

3 on trinity Pawling is also a killer. Had about 8 goals. Tp with a big win over Avon also last week.

That’s Cornell 25 mid recruit, Luke Robinson. He will probably be the fastest kid on the team. He just runs by defenders even though they know he wants to go left. (Canadian). And he has a hard, accurate shot on the run. We have lacked that kind of foot speed/ shot velocity combination.

[Ezra White]

From the NE West 1 high school thread:

3 on trinity Pawling is also a killer. Had about 8 goals. Tp with a big win over Avon also last week.

That’s Cornell 25 mid recruit, Luke Robinson. He will probably be the fastest kid on the team. He just runs by defenders even though they know he wants to go left. (Canadian). And he has a hard, accurate shot on the run. We have lacked that kind of foot speed/ shot velocity combination.

Inside Lacrosse says he's a 2024 recruit. Which is a good thing, I think. I graduation losses will be greater next year, so it will be good to have him when we make a run at the NC.

We'll be back!

[another fan]

Yes, sorry typo— Luke Robinson is arriving next year

[faircornell]

When it comes to statistics, Cornell played a really strong game against Penn. Ground Balls, Shots, CTO's all were dominated by Cornell. Penn had a small advantage of two face-offs. The difference was goalie play. Wyatt Knust had a quite respectable day with 11 saves and 48% saves versus shots faced. Emmet Carroll of Penn had 19 saves for 68%. Knust faced 23 shots. Carroll faced 28 shots. Knust had a 72% save average in Ivy play coming into this game, and a 56% save average overall (including playing time against Notre Dame, Syracuse and PSU).

Knust faced a barrage of point blank shots while Penns Defense did a great job of pushing Big Red offense into taking less than higher quality / optimal shots!

Print the bumper sticker:
BIGRED#25

Not intended to be a criticism of Knust... he carried the team on his back in several games this year.

[VeryRustyRed]

My expectation is that it's time to move on from 2024 and that this will be my final post until the Fall.

1) faircornell - RE: your post referencing goalie as the game difference
I have to disagree. Carroll was really good, but don't be at all misled by what is frequently a misleading statistic - shots taken. Cornell had the edge there (I believe it was even more pronounced in the first half) but Penn's shots were really good looks throughout. Not at all (not even close) can be said of many/most of Cornell's shots. I attended the game and thought Knust's play in goal was nothing less than I would have expected or wanted.

2) RE: Cornell's play down the stretch of the regular season
What makes the way the season ended so tough to absorb (for coaches, players, and fans) is that the team performed down the stretch. During the last 5 games of the regular season --- they beat Syracuse, beat Brown, played very well in a last second loss to ND, beat Harvard in a key game, and beat Dartmouth. But lost to Penn in the ILT. Sort of going from the penthouse to you know where.

3) RE: My thoughts on the Ivy League Tournament...and Cornell
Without fact checking, I believe that Cornell has only won the ILT once (at Columbia...in what I refer to as the "Jake Pulver mid-field+ goal" game.
And that since the Tournament's inception, Cornell has won more regular season games and won more regular season championships than any other Ivy team.
Are there any conclusions to draw? The only thing I can come up with is that it's difficult to beat other quality teams twice within a relative short period of time.

[another fan]

Your conclusion in 3) concerning the difficulty of beating quality teams in a relatively short period of time is ironic
given Penn beating Cornell twice this year and Princeton doing the same to Yale.

Don’t disappear— we will start a 2025 thread when the dust settles.

[faircornell]

Hi VRR! As I have noted twice, my comment regarding save percentage was simply an observation, and not a criticism of Knust. My overarching point is that Cornell, actually, played quite an inspired game. When a team wins GBs, has 10 CTs, has substantially fewer turnovers and is virtually equal in face-offs, it shows that the building blocks of hustle and effort are being attended to, as you know.

As I have also noted, or implied, in prior posts shot selection and valuing possession are both critical in facing a team like Penn who tries to slow down the game tempo. I agree that our shot selection was more geared to a "run and gun" type of game. While I was not there, I watched the game, and know Schoellkopf Field very well.

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

[Ezra White]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

[faircornell]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

Hi Ezra! As a note, I was more generally referring to the relative ethos of the school, as well as the program. I note the practices at dawn from social media (I prefer to quote public sources of information). I know that the team practices at more conventions times as well. One interesting statistic is the percentage of night games each of the ILT teams played during the regular season this year:

Princeton: 4 games (30% of their regular season schedule)
Yale: 4 games (28% of their regular season schedule)
Penn: 3 games (23% of their regular season schedule)
Cornell: 2 games (15% of their regular season schedule)

This has been a thought that I've considered for some time. Cornell has come up short in the ILT after winning the Ivy regular season quite a few times, and the night game disadvantage is one of the factors that I think contributes to this. I am sure that some will disagree.

[Ezra White]

Well, in a similar vein, I know that several coaches deliberately schedule games against tough opponents with little time between games. If the semifinals are on 5/25 & the finals on 5/27, any team looking for a NC should get used to playing tough games 2-days apart.

Game 1 of the ILT was played in the afternoon, but Game 2 was at night. Then, after a day's rest, the championship game, Game 3, was in the afternoon. A team planning to win should feel comfortable after only a day's rest and playing either day or night.

Of course, there's Ithaca weather to take into account. The average early May low in Ithaca is 43°F; in Princeton it's at least 59°F.

[mfp]

I thought this forum would appreciate the new award given out at my son's high lacrosse team's season banquet last night: The Mario St. George Boiardi Award. I think it's cool that a random school in Colorado has this connection to Cornell lacrosse. (I help the team with stats, but I am not involved in coaching.) All the players read The Hard Hat too.

[enterprise]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

[Ezra White]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

[faircornell]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

[Red4Life]

I thought this forum would appreciate the new award given out at my son's high lacrosse team's season banquet last night: The Mario St. George Boiardi Award. I think it's cool that a random school in Colorado has this connection to Cornell lacrosse. (I help the team with stats, but I am not involved in coaching.) All the players read The Hard Hat too.

[CU88a]

I thought this forum would appreciate the new award given out at my son's high lacrosse team's season banquet last night: The Mario St. George Boiardi Award. I think it's cool that a random school in Colorado has this connection to Cornell lacrosse. (I help the team with stats, but I am not involved in coaching.) All the players read The Hard Hat too.

Wonderful!

[Finster]

It hurts to watch teams like Denver and JHU and PSU lay complete eggs in the league tourneys with no risk of losing a bid and have those putrid efforts in somewhat meaningless games cost Cornell a bid.

Couldn't agree more. I understand the NCAA wanting to create some end of season drama but if theres little incentive for a team like JHU to even show up to the B1G tourney, it creates a situation where a league like the B1G can sneak an extra bid to the tourney.

Maybe the committee should leave out UMD in a situation like this, essentially having Michigan take a B1G bid instead of a bid from another conference.

I agree too, but...

Cornell controlled their own destiny. Beat a Penn team, at home, and they're in. Very disappointed in the end result in that game; Penn beat Cornell and it wasn't even really all that close. They were in control of that game from the first quarter forward.

I agree 100%. I never got the feeling the entire game, that Cornell could come back and win that game, and not because Cornell was playing poorly, but because Penn was playing so good. They were terrific on D, they were terrific on the ground, they were so patient on offense, they fought for every inch of ground at the Kopf and their goalie was standing on his head. That's the best team game I have seen at the Kopf, against Cornell, since the Syracuse, Randy Staats game about 6 or 7 years ago.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

JoeWillie,

Sorry I haven't commented earlier. I'm really bummed Cornell is not in the NCAA Tournament. They clearly have the talent, and further the tournament could have benefited seeing the electric playmaking of Kirst and Long. Cornell had a run in them; no telling how far they'd have gotten.

There are several teams that imo should not have made it, which makes this harder to accept. But such is life. Princeton killed Yale's chances, and Penn hurt Cornell's.

The good news is that Cornell appears to be a top-5 preseason ranked team for 2025, assuming Kirst returns obviously.

Thanks for doing the polls all year.

Fin