Hobart 2024

[richardfirmplow78]

Long-time Hobart lacrosse follower & supporter, first-time Fanlax poster.

No one is trying to take away from the accomplishments of the great Hobart teams of the past. We have one of the oldest and most historic programs in the country, that is not in dispute. However, the accomplishments from 40 and 50 years ago have little to no bearing on the current state of the program or the success of the program moving forward. Most parents of kids who are now recruitable age have no knowledge of the Hobart national championships (D3), let alone the recruits themselves, who barely remember when Syracuse was a real contender.

The fact of the matter is that in the 29 seasons since we went D1, Hobart has a record of 182-207 (0.468). With a total of 9 seasons above .500. Of those 9 seasons above .500, two came during the shortened COVID seasons. This is what parents and recruits know about the program. Coach Raymond has a win percentage of .515, which will drop slightly this season, but overall he's doing better than average for our 29 year D1 history. With scholarships there is hope that might improve, but the other programs we contend with have them too. At best we are looking to string together some .500 seasons and maybe get lucky every few years and compete in the conference tournament. If we are looking to replicate the success of yesteryear, there is only one path, and I won't mention that here for fear of the backlash.

Support the program as you see fit, but the days of regularly contending at an elite level in college lacrosse are gone, and have been for some time.

[oldbartman]

RFP78, I don't think anyone expects us to return to the elite "good old days" of Hobart being a one of the top programs in college lacrosse in the short term. What a number of us do expect is for the team to not have seasons like we had last year and then having it extend into this season. Once we get to the full 12.6 athletic scholarships, which will be for the 2027 season, I do expect things to improve. Do I expect us to knock off ND, Duke or UVA, not really. But beating the likes of Colgate, Albany, Lehigh and even Michigan, should be reachable goals. Taking down Cornell and Syracuse would be an added bonus. Getting the team back to the point of when an opponent sees Hobart on their schedule they'll think "Hobart's good. It will be a tough game" is a starting point going forward. During the first team meeting each year the freshmen are asked to address the team and say something about themselves and about choosing Hobart. When it cam time for a player on this years' team to speak, he said "I came here to win". That's a good first take imho. The program can get back on track. It will take some time and changes.

[Ketch]

Long-time Hobart lacrosse follower & supporter, first-time Fanlax poster.

No one is trying to take away from the accomplishments of the great Hobart teams of the past. We have one of the oldest and most historic programs in the country, that is not in dispute. However, the accomplishments from 40 and 50 years ago have little to no bearing on the current state of the program or the success of the program moving forward. Most parents of kids who are now recruitable age have no knowledge of the Hobart national championships (D3), let alone the recruits themselves, who barely remember when Syracuse was a real contender.

The fact of the matter is that in the 29 seasons since we went D1, Hobart has a record of 182-207 (0.468). With a total of 9 seasons above .500. Of those 9 seasons above .500, two came during the shortened COVID seasons. This is what parents and recruits know about the program. Coach Raymond has a win percentage of .515, which will drop slightly this season, but overall he's doing better than average for our 29 year D1 history. With scholarships there is hope that might improve, but the other programs we contend with have them too. At best we are looking to string together some .500 seasons and maybe get lucky every few years and compete in the conference tournament. If we are looking to replicate the success of yesteryear, there is only one path, and I won't mention that here for fear of the backlash.

Support the program as you see fit, but the days of regularly contending at an elite level in college lacrosse are gone, and have been for some time.

Thanks for your post. I hope that you‘ll keep contributing. That being said, I don‘t think you‘re telling us (most of us at least) anything we didn‘t already know. I just think that we can do much, much better in fielding a quality, competitive team that does honor to the tradition of Hobart lacrosse. I think that my expectations are achievable. Go at least .500, make the conference tournament, make Syracuse and Cornell at least break a sweat when playing us, that sort of thing. Get rid of those pesky one goal losses and turn them into wins. I don‘t think that‘s too much to ask with our current resources and given the current landscape of college lacrosse, and as OBM noted, things will get better with scholarships.

We need to turn the corner back to being a team that is respected as an opponent. Right now we are not there.

[Farfromgeneva]

Long-time Hobart lacrosse follower & supporter, first-time Fanlax poster.

No one is trying to take away from the accomplishments of the great Hobart teams of the past. We have one of the oldest and most historic programs in the country, that is not in dispute. However, the accomplishments from 40 and 50 years ago have little to no bearing on the current state of the program or the success of the program moving forward. Most parents of kids who are now recruitable age have no knowledge of the Hobart national championships (D3), let alone the recruits themselves, who barely remember when Syracuse was a real contender.

The fact of the matter is that in the 29 seasons since we went D1, Hobart has a record of 182-207 (0.468). With a total of 9 seasons above .500. Of those 9 seasons above .500, two came during the shortened COVID seasons. This is what parents and recruits know about the program. Coach Raymond has a win percentage of .515, which will drop slightly this season, but overall he's doing better than average for our 29 year D1 history. With scholarships there is hope that might improve, but the other programs we contend with have them too. At best we are looking to string together some .500 seasons and maybe get lucky every few years and compete in the conference tournament. If we are looking to replicate the success of yesteryear, there is only one path, and I won't mention that here for fear of the backlash.

Support the program as you see fit, but the days of regularly contending at an elite level in college lacrosse are gone, and have been for some time.

The SOS in and out of conference has declined precipitously since Raymond was hired. Not a reasonable comparison. Many years in the 2000s the SOS was like 17-27.

I don’t see anyone here really saying things should be like they used to. I would argue you managed the information to support your case quite narrowly.

What I think folks are looking for are things like more than one NEC title, Kerwick got three in the PL and didn’t win the ECAC, a conference that got three teams into the playoffs more than once back then, but he did win COY right after he was fire. I think even most outsiders thought that as well. 2017 & 2019 endings were abominations. I think most folks want us to be on the right side of .500 4/5yrs and not built on multiple MAAC OOC games. I think folks would like to see just one pull it out of their a** comeback win and maybe one noteworthy win against a true top 20 team.

I think many are aware we aren’t winning D1 titles or likely even getting to Rd 2 other than maybe once a generation if we hit on dominant specialists like FOGO, Goalie and SSdM. We’d like to see more energy and not constant away games where they forget to get off the bus until Q2.

Right now we look absolutely uncompetitive in the A10. Excited when we get it within 4 goals at home vs St Joes.

[Farfromgeneva]

Long-time Hobart lacrosse follower & supporter, first-time Fanlax poster.

No one is trying to take away from the accomplishments of the great Hobart teams of the past. We have one of the oldest and most historic programs in the country, that is not in dispute. However, the accomplishments from 40 and 50 years ago have little to no bearing on the current state of the program or the success of the program moving forward. Most parents of kids who are now recruitable age have no knowledge of the Hobart national championships (D3), let alone the recruits themselves, who barely remember when Syracuse was a real contender.

The fact of the matter is that in the 29 seasons since we went D1, Hobart has a record of 182-207 (0.468). With a total of 9 seasons above .500. Of those 9 seasons above .500, two came during the shortened COVID seasons. This is what parents and recruits know about the program. Coach Raymond has a win percentage of .515, which will drop slightly this season, but overall he's doing better than average for our 29 year D1 history. With scholarships there is hope that might improve, but the other programs we contend with have them too. At best we are looking to string together some .500 seasons and maybe get lucky every few years and compete in the conference tournament. If we are looking to replicate the success of yesteryear, there is only one path, and I won't mention that here for fear of the backlash.

Support the program as you see fit, but the days of regularly contending at an elite level in college lacrosse are gone, and have been for some time.

BTW 78 is a terrific vintage but personally I like to go in more worry and get a rhythm gently. God bless our degenerate college that immediately picked up on that

[Sunnylax]

Long-time Hobart lacrosse follower & supporter, first-time Fanlax poster.

No one is trying to take away from the accomplishments of the great Hobart teams of the past. We have one of the oldest and most historic programs in the country, that is not in dispute. However, the accomplishments from 40 and 50 years ago have little to no bearing on the current state of the program or the success of the program moving forward. Most parents of kids who are now recruitable age have no knowledge of the Hobart national championships (D3), let alone the recruits themselves, who barely remember when Syracuse was a real contender.

The fact of the matter is that in the 29 seasons since we went D1, Hobart has a record of 182-207 (0.468). With a total of 9 seasons above .500. Of those 9 seasons above .500, two came during the shortened COVID seasons. This is what parents and recruits know about the program. Coach Raymond has a win percentage of .515, which will drop slightly this season, but overall he's doing better than average for our 29 year D1 history. With scholarships there is hope that might improve, but the other programs we contend with have them too. At best we are looking to string together some .500 seasons and maybe get lucky every few years and compete in the conference tournament. If we are looking to replicate the success of yesteryear, there is only one path, and I won't mention that here for fear of the backlash.

Support the program as you see fit, but the days of regularly contending at an elite level in college lacrosse are gone, and have been for some time.

BTW 78 is a terrific vintage but personally I like to go in more worry and get a rhythm gently. God bless our degenerate college that immediately picked up on that

First time poster on the men's forum so plz be kind. I graduated from HWS in the late 80's and played lax for WS. I can easily recall how thrilling it was to have an outstanding Hobart team for the duration of my time there. I was in the stands when Hobart beat Syracuse. The buzz in Geneva in the spring, the locals who came to watch games was such a positive for the town and colleges. I was very good friends with some of the players and felt proud to have such an amazing program at the school. It was exciting to hear that Hobart was going D1. But, as Richard(?) hinted, is it time to go back to D3? Is staying at the D1 level appropriate if the goal is to be pretty good? I would think players would want to play to try and reach the pinnacle. I'm not sure more scholarships will help that much. Just my thoughts. I still root for Hobart but confess that I don't know much other than checking scores.

[Ketch]

Long-time Hobart lacrosse follower & supporter, first-time Fanlax poster.

No one is trying to take away from the accomplishments of the great Hobart teams of the past. We have one of the oldest and most historic programs in the country, that is not in dispute. However, the accomplishments from 40 and 50 years ago have little to no bearing on the current state of the program or the success of the program moving forward. Most parents of kids who are now recruitable age have no knowledge of the Hobart national championships (D3), let alone the recruits themselves, who barely remember when Syracuse was a real contender.

The fact of the matter is that in the 29 seasons since we went D1, Hobart has a record of 182-207 (0.468). With a total of 9 seasons above .500. Of those 9 seasons above .500, two came during the shortened COVID seasons. This is what parents and recruits know about the program. Coach Raymond has a win percentage of .515, which will drop slightly this season, but overall he's doing better than average for our 29 year D1 history. With scholarships there is hope that might improve, but the other programs we contend with have them too. At best we are looking to string together some .500 seasons and maybe get lucky every few years and compete in the conference tournament. If we are looking to replicate the success of yesteryear, there is only one path, and I won't mention that here for fear of the backlash.

Support the program as you see fit, but the days of regularly contending at an elite level in college lacrosse are gone, and have been for some time.

BTW 78 is a terrific vintage but personally I like to go in more worry and get a rhythm gently. God bless our degenerate college that immediately picked up on that

First time poster on the men's forum so plz be kind. I graduated from HWS in the late 80's and played lax for WS. I can easily recall how thrilling it was to have an outstanding Hobart team for the duration of my time there. I was in the stands when Hobart beat Syracuse. The buzz in Geneva in the spring, the locals who came to watch games was such a positive for the town and colleges. I was very good friends with some of the players and felt proud to have such an amazing program at the school. It was exciting to hear that Hobart was going D1. But, as Richard(?) hinted, is it time to go back to D3? Is staying at the D1 level appropriate if the goal is to be pretty good? I would think players would want to play to try and reach the pinnacle. I'm not sure more scholarships will help that much. Just my thoughts. I still root for Hobart but confess that I don't know much other than checking scores.

I hear what you are saying about back in the day, but today is today. I had a friend of mine, a former Syracuse All-American and all-around great guy, ask me what I thought about Hobart playing in DI. I said that I thought that it's great to be playing at the highest level, lumps and all. He said that he absolutely agreed. That's where we are. That's where we should stay. We just need to do better. And we can.

[Sunnylax]

Long-time Hobart lacrosse follower & supporter, first-time Fanlax poster.

No one is trying to take away from the accomplishments of the great Hobart teams of the past. We have one of the oldest and most historic programs in the country, that is not in dispute. However, the accomplishments from 40 and 50 years ago have little to no bearing on the current state of the program or the success of the program moving forward. Most parents of kids who are now recruitable age have no knowledge of the Hobart national championships (D3), let alone the recruits themselves, who barely remember when Syracuse was a real contender.

The fact of the matter is that in the 29 seasons since we went D1, Hobart has a record of 182-207 (0.468). With a total of 9 seasons above .500. Of those 9 seasons above .500, two came during the shortened COVID seasons. This is what parents and recruits know about the program. Coach Raymond has a win percentage of .515, which will drop slightly this season, but overall he's doing better than average for our 29 year D1 history. With scholarships there is hope that might improve, but the other programs we contend with have them too. At best we are looking to string together some .500 seasons and maybe get lucky every few years and compete in the conference tournament. If we are looking to replicate the success of yesteryear, there is only one path, and I won't mention that here for fear of the backlash.

Support the program as you see fit, but the days of regularly contending at an elite level in college lacrosse are gone, and have been for some time.

BTW 78 is a terrific vintage but personally I like to go in more worry and get a rhythm gently. God bless our degenerate college that immediately picked up on that

First time poster on the men's forum so plz be kind. I graduated from HWS in the late 80's and played lax for WS. I can easily recall how thrilling it was to have an outstanding Hobart team for the duration of my time there. I was in the stands when Hobart beat Syracuse. The buzz in Geneva in the spring, the locals who came to watch games was such a positive for the town and colleges. I was very good friends with some of the players and felt proud to have such an amazing program at the school. It was exciting to hear that Hobart was going D1. But, as Richard(?) hinted, is it time to go back to D3? Is staying at the D1 level appropriate if the goal is to be pretty good? I would think players would want to play to try and reach the pinnacle. I'm not sure more scholarships will help that much. Just my thoughts. I still root for Hobart but confess that I don't know much other than checking scores.

I hear what you are saying about back in the day, but today is today. I had a friend of mine, a former Syracuse All-American and all-around great guy, ask me what I thought about Hobart playing in DI. I said that I thought that it's great to be playing at the highest level, lumps and all. He said that he absolutely agreed. That's where we are. That's where we should stay. We just need to do better. And we can.

I haven't been to a Hobart game since graduating. Is there still the buzz, excitement on campus, are the stands and parking lot full
+tailgaters and support from the locals? That to me seems important and doesn't have to mean 'back in the day'. If not, that's a shame and I think that's what the program needs to revive. Then it's easier to get recruits to buy in. Again, total outsider now looking in. Wish them success!

[Bananas4Lax3]

Those that still think Hobart can compete at a high level are just out of touch with the current state of college lacrosse. 61k a year with no athletic scholarships and still for the most part low level D1 or high level D3 facilities. Slim chance at transfers as guys arent going to transfer in somewhere to pay double the price of the school they were just at. They should be the 4th or 5th best team in the A10 every year. Sure can the coaching staff do more? Yes. But this a more difficult job than people are acting like it is and I am not sure many coaches who are going to turn this program into an NCAA tournament team. Richmond and even High Point are head and shoulders above where this program is at. You are a 18 year old kid are you going to decide on High Point or Hobart.....? Be honest with yourself....

[Ketch]

Those that still think Hobart can compete at a high level are just out of touch with the current state of college lacrosse. 61k a year with no athletic scholarships and still for the most part low level D1 or high level D3 facilities. Slim chance at transfers as guys arent going to transfer in somewhere to pay double the price of the school they were just at. They should be the 4th or 5th best team in the A10 every year. Sure can the coaching staff do more? Yes. But this a more difficult job than people are acting like it is and I am not sure many coaches who are going to turn this program into an NCAA tournament team. Richmond and even High Point are head and shoulders above where this program is at. You are a 18 year old kid are you going to decide on High Point or Hobart.....? Be honest with yourself....

You're slow on the draw about the scholarships and you might want to reread what some of the expectations are for the program. I don't think they are unrealistic.

[slumdogmillionaire]

Felt comfortable to chime in with a few other newcomers, Hobart grad within the last 10 years here.

If you take a look at some of the recent/incoming recruits, I have a couple thoughts. Hobart has kids here/coming in from spots like Oregon, Minnesota, Missouri, Wyoming, and Washington state. To begin, I love the team becoming a location for players all across the country, there is a different style and physicality that seems to translate well at the college level (Bubba Fairman, Ross Scott, Ajax Zapitello). There is evidence of PLL talent from players who grew up in the Northwest and Midwest, I feel like Raymond could truly cash in on a couple "hidden gems" that we have coming in soon. Acquiring this hidden talent has fueled Hobart lax and I am eager to see where that takes us.

A team I believe we could relate to is a 2008-2012 Albany squad. They were at or below .500 each year in that span until they struck gold in recruiting the Thompsons and later on Blaze Riorden, Connor Fields. Those players were well-known in high school but Hobart has much more to offer than Albany (I have also heard rumors that Fields was very close to committing to Bart). I still do love that we are gaining new players and their families from unconventional hotbeds but there is so much to gain from right here in Upstate NY. We have great relationships with several lacrosse pipelines (several studs from Lincoln Sudbury, a great Harlem Lacrosse relationship, and other upstate schools like Westhill, Canandaigua, and West Genny). Could we see the school aid in providing proper resources and programs for student-athletes from native reservations like Albany and 'Cuse? This team and area has so much untapped potential. Lots of freshman and sophomore talent, and many 3-star recruits on their way to Geneva. The incoming scholarships and "A10 sized players" are only going to help us.

Richmond, Umass, and HPU were all ready to succeed in the A10 from the jump and now Bart has a taste for that style of play and type of players they need to succeed. Only up from here.

PS, can we get one of the hundreds of media students to run Hobart Lacrosse's Instagram? It's a good resume builder plus recruits want to see some sweet plays!

[oldbartman]

Latest podcast.

https://hwsathletics.com/podcasts/hobar ... ode-82/174

[1766]

I caught some of a Hobart game and the teams seems very small, outside of that giant attackman. Looking at your roster there are a lot of 5'8"-5-10" size guys. The A10 isn't one of the top conferences but even there I can't imagine a lot of athletes that size will be competitive against bigger teams.

[Farfromgeneva]

Those that still think Hobart can compete at a high level are just out of touch with the current state of college lacrosse. 61k a year with no athletic scholarships and still for the most part low level D1 or high level D3 facilities. Slim chance at transfers as guys arent going to transfer in somewhere to pay double the price of the school they were just at. They should be the 4th or 5th best team in the A10 every year. Sure can the coaching staff do more? Yes. But this a more difficult job than people are acting like it is and I am not sure many coaches who are going to turn this program into an NCAA tournament team. Richmond and even High Point are head and shoulders above where this program is at. You are a 18 year old kid are you going to decide on High Point or Hobart.....? Be honest with yourself....

At the risk of upsetting some folks are you in any way familiar with what actually goes on educationally at HPU? Or the decaying Triad area? It’s for some kids but I don’t think you really are familiar with that area. If your saying it’s hard to compete with schools who can and will waive anyone in then sure but it a captain obvious point.

[Laxgunea]

Sunnylax, there is not the same buzz as the 80s, but there are lots of good reasons for that. First, the school switched to semesters, and play in general has shifted earlier. No one wants to watch on the Boz in Feb or March. And the school itself has changed. Half of the students are varsity athetes, so they have their own events to attend. Plus there are other high achieving teams to watch. WS lax is at one loss on the season. WS soccer are perennial contenders. Hobart Hockey brought home the championship 2 years in a row. Hobart basketball won liberty league. Plus there are new teams from volleyball to skiing to baseball and bowling. If you live in Geneva there is something going on every night.
The reason someone might choose Hobart over OSU or Michigan is size of school, small classes, and individualized attention. Plus a beautiful location. People shouldn't compare sticker prices without looking at discount rate. Yes, our tuition is 66k, but the average kid has a 65 to 70% discount. For lacrosse, if you come to Hobart you get to practice in the bubble when the weather is bad, unlike Colgate, Lemoyne, and many others.
Every player I've ever asked wants to play D1.
I am sure we can scoop unrecognized talent ... we got Brown, Aslanian, Scott, Holden, Archer, Madonna, etc... We just need to have the team playing at its full potential.
This has been a bad season. But it is a young team. Next year should be different. If not, there will be pressure to change something big.
BTW, glad to see so many new posters!

[oldbartman]

I caught some of a Hobart game and the teams seems very small, outside of that giant attackman. Looking at your roster there are a lot of 5'8"-5-10" size guys. The A10 isn't one of the top conferences but even there I can't imagine a lot of athletes that size will be competitive against bigger teams.

1766 for once I agree with you! I know the coaching staff has been focused on getting bigger, faster, stronger recruits. Finally having access to athletic scholarship helps a lot. We had 3 for this season, 6 for next, 9 for the '26 season and the full 12.6 for the '27 season. Looking at our '24 & '25 recruits, things are trending the way the coaches want. It will take time, but the Hobart faithful are just that.

[Farfromgeneva]

I caught some of a Hobart game and the teams seems very small, outside of that giant attackman. Looking at your roster there are a lot of 5'8"-5-10" size guys. The A10 isn't one of the top conferences but even there I can't imagine a lot of athletes that size will be competitive against bigger teams.

1766 for once I agree with you! I know the coaching staff has been focused on getting bigger, faster, stronger recruits. Finally having access to athletic scholarship helps a lot. We had 3 for this season, 6 for next, 9 for the '26 season and the full 12.6 for the '27 season. Looking at our '24 & '25 recruits, things are trending the way the coaches want. It will take time, but the Hobart faithful are just that.

Have you looked at the sizes of the 24s?

They need to be able to make plays as well. Guys like Henry Mann, Tanner John and Chad Bach had nice careers (bachs not quite done yet but the book seems written) but they looked and had the athletic attributes everyone talks about. I think Wimer should play some O personally but it's not changing with next years class. Think Fenlin is the only kid over 6'

[Farfromgeneva]

Include Cade Cordingly from Canada not sure on his size. But the range is 5'8" to 5'11"

Bryce Johnson A 10/02/2023 Jackson Hole Community School --
-- Chase Hallam M 07/25/2023 Severn School Baltimore Crabs 2024
-- Griffin Strange FO 03/09/2023 IMG Academy Richmond Hawks 2024 AA
-- Michael Scarpati LSM 02/27/2023 Bernards High School BBL Elite 2024 Black
-- Sheldon Broughton M 02/15/2023 Neil McNeil Edge 2024
-- Brady Smith G 12/27/2022 Jesuit High School --
-- Cole DiPietro M 12/18/2022 South Side High School ICON 2024
-- Daniel Cano A 11/29/2022 The Hun School of Princeton BBL Elite 2024 Black
-- Ethan Winterbottom D 10/22/2022 The Governors Academy True Illinois 2024 Premier AA
-- Ryan Miele D 10/08/2022 The Kiski School Nationals Lacrosse Club 2024
-- James Hamilton M 09/25/2022 Valor Christian High School Denver Elite 2024 Silver
-- Teddy Fenlin A 07/27/2023 St Joseph's Preparatory School Mesa PA 2024 --
-- Rees Chandler D 10/27/2022 Seattle Preparatory School CitySide 2024

[oldbartman]

Chandler and Winterbottom are both 6'2", B Johnson 6'2". Remember, the data you see on the recruiting profiles are from when they commit, which these days is the beginning to middle of their junior year in high school. A lot changes over the next 2 years for most.

[Farfromgeneva]

Chandler and Winterbottom are both 6'2", B Johnson 6'2". Remember, the data you see on the recruiting profiles are from when they commit, which these days is the beginning to middle of their junior year in high school. A lot changes over the next 2 years for most.

It’s still a pretty small class size wise. I hear some of these kids are very good but for folks pining for size it’s not coming next year. But it’s also about physically as we’ve discussed a lot. 5’11 or better and generally you can handle the bigger athletes if you are athletic and physical.

The discussion about trajectory and related are fair and interesting though most of us have kind of watched it right in front of our eyes over 20+ years kind of tracking the colleges overall which are down like 15-20 spots in USNWR since I left. So we saw many into actions or inaction by our AD, morning paperwork, not applying. For home field for football twice so they had to play rod games as higher seed, NCAA violation on paperwork, backdoor sneak their approach to bridging lx back to d3 in 08. He got all this credit for raising the money for the first Boz renovation which was bs because it wasn’t paid for they had like $2/$11mm when they broke ground. At least he’s not responsible for our first bubble
Collapsing not long after completion (And C of O somehow via either bribe or incompetence).

Oh and there was like a 15ur stretch where Messere wouldn’t send any kids to Bart because of the way he handled the firing of BJ OHara.

There’s other reasons than Hanna but the one not talked about that in my mind is a major factor in the course set and path of D1 Hobart Lacrosse. He got the camp money for himself. Not the staff or HC as is commonplace across many college programs. Given the relies tighter budget and lack of ability to offer scholarships that really was a pig move that might be the real problem all this time. And what makes his move to take the program back to D3 quietly a little more offensive. I really like the guy to get along with but one fan allocate a healthy amount of the issues today on him IMO.