Hobart 2024

[Ketch]

Defense whether it is in close, LSM or shorty really is about athleticism. For that matter giving up big chunks of a lead in the 2nd half is similarly about athleticism. And grit. The one thing about Hobart Lacrosse in the modern era compared to the glory days is that the two sport athlete is no longer really a presence. Back in the day it was DJU's super power...bringing in those two sport college athletes, football, hockey to the program. And it had an affect on the culture. It is arguably an outdated model for sure. But size, speed, and footwork are still relevant. Hobart as a small, expensive liberal arts college on the cold shores of Seneca Lake is competing against Tobacco Row, the BI$10, Patriot League and Ivies not to mention even high end DIII schools in the NESCAC and Liberty League which are arguably in the same recruiting pool academically and economically. Hobart being DI in lacrosse and DIII in all other sports has an opportunity to tap into that "market" that those biggies cannot not do for the most part. Pretty hard to be a two sport DI athlete...a little easier to be a DI - DIII athlete. So as we get to the normal sky is falling...it is time for regime time of year, remember that was a model that was the Hobart "brand." You will never be a legitimate David vs. Goliath trying to mimic every other DI program. Compared to other middling DI upstate NY programs, at least Hobart has that heritage. Unfortunately that is what Hobart looks like right now, just a middling (at best) little upstate DI school...no offense Bonaventure and Canisius. Yes...just a lot of "back in my day" B.S. But that loss today and the never ending wash, rinse, repeat of 3rd - 4th quarter melt downs over the years is not about x's and o's, it is about culture and grit. Maybe they are unicorns and don't exist but maybe looking for "athletes" that look a little more like those of the past should be the Hobart brand.

I think that your last sentence is key. I’ve thought for awhile that we should be looking more at just athletes, diamond in the rough players along the lines of Cooper Stefaniak and Chad Bach that may fly under the radar of other teams. One of my friends told me after the Albany game that „you guys need more lacrosse players.“ Some big tough studs mixed in with our smaller skill players is what’s needed. Bring the beef and some nastiness and make that our brand again.

[SMAIN]

Yes it's about culture and grit, but also about coaching and what's happening on the field and able to adjust..... zone.

[oldbartman]

Yes it's about culture and grit, but also about coaching and what's happening on the field and able to adjust..... zone.

Please forward to Coaches Raymond and Fisher. Not sure the latter has heard of it.

[FMUBart]

I don't think the problem was all in the 4th quarter. We only scored twice in the 3rd .... it was an extended scoring drought.

Um, what? We may have only scored twice in the 3rd, but UMass was scoreless that quarter…if giving up 9 goals in the fourth quarter wasn’t the sole reason for losing, then what?? Hobart may have been able to stall & not score the whole 4th quarter(especially the way Shea played at the X) and still win.That was an epic breakdown. As others have said, where is the leadership??

The slowdown in the third forecast the collapse in the 4th. As OBM said, things started to shift 26 seconds in. I'm not saying the 4th was good. Our D collapsed in the 4th. But on O the signs started in the 3rd. I think we thought we had it in the bag. We didn't. And we couldn't jump start ourselves once we stalled.

UMass scored 26 seconds into the 4th quarter--they DID NOT score in the 3rd..the game was over until the expected 4th quarter meltdown, even with Shea winning at the X.

[Laxgunea]

Yup. It should have been over. Still, I don't think the offensive slowdown in the third helped us. Nor the continued slowdown in the 4th. Don't get me wrong ... the D and midfield crapped the bed in the 4th. But this is not a mature enough team to clock watch and play control. Are you saying you thought the 4 goal offensive performance in the second half was good? One EMO goal and one other in the 3rd won't cut it in the rest of A10 play.
Even against Lemoyne we all got that pit in the stomach feeling when we started to slow down.
None of what I am saying is trying to justify what happened defensively in the 4th.

[oldbartman]

My bad Q3-Q4 UMass scoring time mix-up. FMU is correct. The stats say we out GB'd the Minutemen 38-30. Unfortunately, most of them were in the 1st half. I don't know what it is about this and recent past teams that causes them to forget how to play. Whatever adjustments that were made at halftime the coaches should have realized they weren't working. At this level you need to have the staff and players who are smart enough to adjust on the fly and execute those adjustments. At 3-6, I'm not seeing it. What am I missing? UMass D forced our offense towards GLE leading to very low percentage shots. I love Datellas, but he's no Daryl Veltman or Dan Hardy. That is something that we should be able to counter. It was great to see Johnny Herlihy back. He brings an energy that is infectious. But taking 11 shots and only putting 3 on cage isn't helping. So many things need to be cleaned up and there are only 4 games left to the regular season. Can we win 2 of our remaining games to make the A-10 tourney?

[FMUBart]

Agree Laxgunea re: anemic 2nd half O….but, with an 80 second shot clock and Shea winning draws, there’s no way they should lose that game…9 goals allowed in a quarter in beyond the pale..

[Laxgunea]

No question about that. Fully agree.

[SMAIN]

I haven't seen an e-mail address for Raymond...... smart.

[Bartfromboston]

My bad Q3-Q4 UMass scoring time mix-up. FMU is correct. The stats say we out GB'd the Minutemen 38-30. Unfortunately, most of them were in the 1st half. I don't know what it is about this and recent past teams that causes them to forget how to play. Whatever adjustments that were made at halftime the coaches should have realized they weren't working. At this level you need to have the staff and players who are smart enough to adjust on the fly and execute those adjustments. At 3-6, I'm not seeing it. What am I missing? UMass D forced our offense towards GLE leading to very low percentage shots. I love Datellas, but he's no Daryl Veltman or Dan Hardy. That is something that we should be able to counter. It was great to see Johnny Herlihy back. He brings an energy that is infectious. But taking 11 shots and only putting 3 on cage isn't helping. So many things need to be cleaned up and there are only 4 games left to the regular season. Can we win 2 of our remaining games to make the A-10 tourney?

Shot selection has been an issue all year. we just refuse to change anything on offense. It’s almost like it’s been working for years and we are justifying that it’s just a few games. It hasn’t worked and we wont change anything going forward. It’s frustrating to watch, not sure what has to to happen to get some attention. I dont put this on any of the kids, it’s the coaches job to get energy and get playmakers to be in a position to make plays. When players shoot from all over the place, dont hit the net, and then we just run them right back out there and let them do the same thing again — what do we expect. I am not suggesting benching starters for a turnover but there has to be some accountability. And if you watched Datellas after every run, he should never have been on the field - he was doubled over half the game on the sideline which is why I assume he was running midfield. The kid has guts and is clearly committed to this program but That is how kids get really injured.

[brodad]

I agree. Datellas was definitely not himself. They've played several middies who would have been at least as effective without risking further injury to Datellas.

[catchnshoot]

UMass was really a must win for this squad
They should handle the Bonnie’s but other than that it looks pretty dire.
Not making the conference playoffs will make recruiting to Geneva Ben more difficult going forward.
We are probably very close to the end of people caring that Hobart was once a great dominant program.

[man:down]

As much as the players seem to tense up when they have a lead (something I blame the coaches for the same way kids tend to grip their sticks too tight for fear of making mistakes and being punished), the coaching staff has their own version of panic. They shorten the bench when they get nervous. Hobart is up by 6 points and loses the battle for the GB following the first face-off of the 4th quarter and UMass scores. SO what. You are up by 5 at that point because you are the better team. But that isn't how they played after that goal and everyone in Geneva could feel the shift.

I feel bad for the kids who were on the field because they work their asses off all week and they played their hardest. But up front they were banged up (Datellas) or ineffective (Barthelme - he had one goal but was basically wasting a spot on the field otherwise). At middie, Bach, Peterkin and Greene were largely neutralized, and Herlihy had a couple goals but took a ton of shots that missed, and an injured Datellas running out of the box was a questionable call. And on D, they seemed gassed. In the 4th you could se them playing D with their stick rather than their bodies.

You have 35+ players on the sidelines, many of whom have shown that they can step on the field cold and contribute. On D, that means fresh legs locking someone down for a bit or getting GBs or just playing extra tough (how about Turner?) On offense maybe it means someone fresh moving the ball or moving with the ball to run the UMass D around? Where did Cardinalli go. Or Swisher. What about throwing guys in who are more effective against the zone. You had Rosa in there doing his best. What about Ward? Or even Snellenburg or Stillwell - they got early season runs? Give guys a break?

I like that that the coaches trust "their guys" but "their guys" got nervous and lost 9-2 in the 4th. You can't do the same thing over and over like they have the last 2 seasons and think it will end differently. These guys can absolutely compete with all of the A10 teams. But if they are going to beat Richmond, St Joe's or High Point, things need to change. If they don't change and the team loses, it is 10000% on the coaches and that is when I will say it is time for the coaches to go.

[Farfromgeneva]

Do folks know how Raymond got his information to decide to suspend seven kids or so for the Bryant playoff game in 2015 (after losing 4 straight to close the season incl MSM routing)?

It was a former player who has come around here a bit though still not sure if he ever actually finished.

[Farfromgeneva]

As much as the players seem to tense up when they have a lead (something I blame the coaches for the same way kids tend to grip their sticks too tight for fear of making mistakes and being punished), the coaching staff has their own version of panic. They shorten the bench when they get nervous. Hobart is up by 6 points and loses the battle for the GB following the first face-off of the 4th quarter and UMass scores. SO what. You are up by 5 at that point because you are the better team. But that isn't how they played after that goal and everyone in Geneva could feel the shift.

I feel bad for the kids who were on the field because they work their asses off all week and they played their hardest. But up front they were banged up (Datellas) or ineffective (Barthelme - he had one goal but was basically wasting a spot on the field otherwise). At middie, Bach, Peterkin and Greene were largely neutralized, and Herlihy had a couple goals but took a ton of shots that missed, and an injured Datellas running out of the box was a questionable call. And on D, they seemed gassed. In the 4th you could se them playing D with their stick rather than their bodies.

You have 35+ players on the sidelines, many of whom have shown that they can step on the field cold and contribute. On D, that means fresh legs locking someone down for a bit or getting GBs or just playing extra tough (how about Turner?) On offense maybe it means someone fresh moving the ball or moving with the ball to run the UMass D around? Where did Cardinalli go. Or Swisher. What about throwing guys in who are more effective against the zone. You had Rosa in there doing his best. What about Ward? Or even Snellenburg or Stillwell - they got early season runs? Give guys a break?

I like that that the coaches trust "their guys" but "their guys" got nervous and lost 9-2 in the 4th. You can't do the same thing over and over like they have the last 2 seasons and think it will end differently. These guys can absolutely compete with all of the A10 teams. But if they are going to beat Richmond, St Joe's or High Point, things need to change. If they don't change and the team loses, it is 10000% on the coaches and that is when I will say it is time for the coaches to go.

You say “they” but of the coaches we’be seen this across assistants soo…

Some leadership and development of men. They’ll never been traders on the street let alone pass the live part of the foreign service officer program or accomplish other things if that’s being instilled. And we look like crap on the field.

All goes back to Hanna’s last pathetic stand in hiring him after TW just quit. He’d hired numerous player coaches and they were a mess From BJ to Kerwick. So he goes and pulls in his kids friend who’s known as a drill servant opposite. Meanwhile Hanna retires with a pitied last 15yrs no issues to his pension while yhe Boz renovations weren’t funded yet folks were running around acting like he was doing money magic. Then the collapse of the bubble. It was reactionary then from a guy who couldn’t properly manage his job since the 90s.

[man:down]

I am not sure I understand any of your response (aside from some Hobart history). In short - all coaches need to change, adapt, do things differently. Or go.

I've written this before - Hobart is never going to out-recruit schools with: higher caliber academics, higher caliber lacrosse, larger student bodies, more favorable locations. SO - coaches need to squeeze the most out of the gritty, underdog players they get and beat other teams as a team. How about as a WHOLE team. Maybe these are not the coaches to do it.

[Farfromgeneva]

I am not sure I understand any of your response (aside from some Hobart history). In short - all coaches need to change, adapt, do things differently. Or go.

I've written this before - Hobart is never going to out-recruit schools with: higher caliber academics, higher caliber lacrosse, larger student bodies, more favorable locations. SO - coaches need to squeeze the most out of the gritty, underdog players they get and beat other teams as a team. How about as a WHOLE team. Maybe these are not the coaches to do it.

Is Brundage to blame for chokes in 2016? I’m not sure there is more than one source of the stress and anxiety the kids have among the staff. Obviously fisher needs to find a new industry after SJU and this.

Would you want Brundage out or could you see him stepping up in an internal transition is why I bring this up. It’s a serious question if discussions were had. So what’s his role in this?

The leadership part was to front run any “he’s turning them into great citizens so earning his keep” defense. I doubt you’d see kids who choke like this have dramatically superior emotional quotient in a fast paced volatile real life setting and I don’t see dramatically better other datapoints to show he’s done anything special to mold them into men. it’s higher ed and they don’t run like a business so guys can hang it o their jobs and ride a unit into the ground for their own pension. I doubt given what we witness in live action he’s doing anything to make them better off the field. But I’m sure he’s selling pitch internally to support his job.

(The other note was to make sure folks knew the guy who does support Raymond and sells a story on here didn’t graduate and ratted his team out before the playoffs and then talks character and toughness here without having a HWS degree or the character to go to the teammates directly in the issue)

[Bartfromboston]

As much as the players seem to tense up when they have a lead (something I blame the coaches for the same way kids tend to grip their sticks too tight for fear of making mistakes and being punished), the coaching staff has their own version of panic. They shorten the bench when they get nervous. Hobart is up by 6 points and loses the battle for the GB following the first face-off of the 4th quarter and UMass scores. SO what. You are up by 5 at that point because you are the better team. But that isn't how they played after that goal and everyone in Geneva could feel the shift.

I feel bad for the kids who were on the field because they work their asses off all week and they played their hardest. But up front they were banged up (Datellas) or ineffective (Barthelme - he had one goal but was basically wasting a spot on the field otherwise). At middie, Bach, Peterkin and Greene were largely neutralized, and Herlihy had a couple goals but took a ton of shots that missed, and an injured Datellas running out of the box was a questionable call. And on D, they seemed gassed. In the 4th you could se them playing D with their stick rather than their bodies.

You have 35+ players on the sidelines, many of whom have shown that they can step on the field cold and contribute. On D, that means fresh legs locking someone down for a bit or getting GBs or just playing extra tough (how about Turner?) On offense maybe it means someone fresh moving the ball or moving with the ball to run the UMass D around? Where did Cardinalli go. Or Swisher. What about throwing guys in who are more effective against the zone. You had Rosa in there doing his best. What about Ward? Or even Snellenburg or Stillwell - they got early season runs? Give guys a break?

I like that that the coaches trust "their guys" but "their guys" got nervous and lost 9-2 in the 4th. You can't do the same thing over and over like they have the last 2 seasons and think it will end differently. These guys can absolutely compete with all of the A10 teams. But if they are going to beat Richmond, St Joe's or High Point, things need to change. If they don't change and the team loses, it is 10000% on the coaches and that is when I will say it is time for the coaches to go.

I feel bad saying this with names so I am going to steer clear of names. But there are players out there who are not going to help us win. They are players that might make the score closer but that’s just a “might”. The only way kids are easy to come off the bench is if they come off the bench. We are not only mortgaging our future by sitting 60% of the team but we are also wearing the kids down that play. We couldn’t last a full year with that strategy, we won’t have any tread left on the tires. The fact that you take a clearly banged up player and try to make shift a line up ignoring any changes or send in another player(s) over and over again to constantly get nothing is tough to watch. Kudos to the kids asked to do that work but I bet they are frustrated as anyone……

[Laxtradomus]

Pretty clear it's time to let the coaching staff go, Raymond has blown numerous second half leads in his tenure and its asinine that he's making over 200 thousand. Raymond has been on record saying he "recruits kids who he thinks can be leaders." Which is a moronic way to go about putting a team together, recruit good lacrosse players! You don't have to be a genius to see how small, and soft this team is. Granted, it's getting harder to recruit there but if the administration had turd canned him last year like they should have we could have gotten Sean Kirwan one of the brightest coaches in lacrosse (dad is an alum.) Joining the A10 while exciting, showcased the glaring weaknesses of this coaching staff'f product. It's time for this marriage to break up, but who knows if that will even happen with the lack of leadership in the administration. Just an absolute dumpster fire of a situation that looks unlikely to improve quickly.

[cooperstef]

I am not sure I understand any of your response (aside from some Hobart history). In short - all coaches need to change, adapt, do things differently. Or go.

I've written this before - Hobart is never going to out-recruit schools with: higher caliber academics, higher caliber lacrosse, larger student bodies, more favorable locations. SO - coaches need to squeeze the most out of the gritty, underdog players they get and beat other teams as a team. How about as a WHOLE team. Maybe these are not the coaches to do it.

Is Brundage to blame for chokes in 2016? I’m not sure there is more than one source of the stress and anxiety the kids have among the staff. Obviously fisher needs to find a new industry after SJU and this.

Would you want Brundage out or could you see him stepping up in an internal transition is why I bring this up. It’s a serious question if discussions were had. So what’s his role in this?

The leadership part was to front run any “he’s turning them into great citizens so earning his keep” defense. I doubt you’d see kids who choke like this have dramatically superior emotional quotient in a fast paced volatile real life setting and I don’t see dramatically better other datapoints to show he’s done anything special to mold them into men. it’s higher ed and they don’t run like a business so guys can hang it o their jobs and ride a unit into the ground for their own pension. I doubt given what we witness in live action he’s doing anything to make them better off the field. But I’m sure he’s selling pitch internally to support his job.

(The other note was to make sure folks knew the guy who does support Raymond and sells a story on here didn’t graduate and ratted his team out before the playoffs and then talks character and toughness here without having a HWS degree or the character to go to the teammates directly in the issue)

I'd be interested in who you are talking about, coward. Hiding behind an alias. You know nothing about the locker room or the coaching situation. Your judge of character is completely wrong. Either put your first and last name on here like I do or shut the heck up. Calling for someone's job when you don't know the person is a coward move. I hope like hell that you were one of the best Hobart lacrosse players because if you weren't you shouldn't ever speak about someone else's job and or the team again.