2023 National Rankings

[random observer]

For some reason the CT FCIACs are able to call some match-ups scrimmages - instead of games - even mid to late season. Last Friday Greenwich Academy beat Wilton 11-6 and they called it a “scrimmage”. Starters played the entire game on both sides - same rules / timeouts and intensity. In 2022 and 2021 it was a “game” on the exact same weekend (and wins for Wilton) both years. Anyone know how or why this is? Coaches just agree to it beforehand? Perhaps the FCIAC schools have a limit on number OOC “games” and need to call the rest scrimmages.

WOW, I knew Greenwich Academy was one of the best in the country, but Wilton is a top 5 team this year hands down. Maybe they treated it like a scrimmage in their heads. Who knows. They are currently battling Darien in a matchup of Titans right now on DAF Media Youtube Channel.

Joe

Wilton did not treat it like a scrimmage. Greenwich Academy also beat New Canaan but that was earlier in the season in another “scrimmage”. (GA lost to Darien in yet another “scrimmage”). Would love to know how this works.

I mean, neither matchup was on Wilton or NC's schedule at any point this season, so it's not like this was a case of them deciding they were scrimmaging after the fact. These were straight up scrimmages and should be treated with the appropriate grain of salt. In an actual game this year, GA was beaten by Ridgefield, who Wilton just squashed 21-6

[Bystanders]

For some reason the CT FCIACs are able to call some match-ups scrimmages - instead of games - even mid to late season. Last Friday Greenwich Academy beat Wilton 11-6 and they called it a “scrimmage”. Starters played the entire game on both sides - same rules / timeouts and intensity. In 2022 and 2021 it was a “game” on the exact same weekend (and wins for Wilton) both years. Anyone know how or why this is? Coaches just agree to it beforehand? Perhaps the FCIAC schools have a limit on number OOC “games” and need to call the rest scrimmages.

WOW, I knew Greenwich Academy was one of the best in the country, but Wilton is a top 5 team this year hands down. Maybe they treated it like a scrimmage in their heads. Who knows. They are currently battling Darien in a matchup of Titans right now on DAF Media Youtube Channel.

Joe

Wilton did not treat it like a scrimmage. Greenwich Academy also beat New Canaan but that was earlier in the season in another “scrimmage”. (GA lost to Darien in yet another “scrimmage”). Would love to know how this works.

I mean, neither matchup was on Wilton or NC's schedule at any point this season, so it's not like this was a case of them deciding they were scrimmaging after the fact. These were straight up scrimmages and should be treated with the appropriate grain of salt. In an actual game this year, GA was beaten by Ridgefield, who Wilton just squashed 21-6

That’s my point. They keep it off the schedule because there’s no upside. They want to play teams like GA and Sacred Heart for the competition, but they don’t want the loss so they call it a scrimmage. Same date the last two years it was a game, this year a scrimmage. Believe the girls and coaches did not treat it like a scrimmage. Just wondering why it’s labels that way. GA plays Greenwich High next Friday and it’s another scrimmage. On GA’s schedule but not GHS. Anyone know if there is an FCIAC rule?

[random observer]

For some reason the CT FCIACs are able to call some match-ups scrimmages - instead of games - even mid to late season. Last Friday Greenwich Academy beat Wilton 11-6 and they called it a “scrimmage”. Starters played the entire game on both sides - same rules / timeouts and intensity. In 2022 and 2021 it was a “game” on the exact same weekend (and wins for Wilton) both years. Anyone know how or why this is? Coaches just agree to it beforehand? Perhaps the FCIAC schools have a limit on number OOC “games” and need to call the rest scrimmages.

WOW, I knew Greenwich Academy was one of the best in the country, but Wilton is a top 5 team this year hands down. Maybe they treated it like a scrimmage in their heads. Who knows. They are currently battling Darien in a matchup of Titans right now on DAF Media Youtube Channel.

Joe

Wilton did not treat it like a scrimmage. Greenwich Academy also beat New Canaan but that was earlier in the season in another “scrimmage”. (GA lost to Darien in yet another “scrimmage”). Would love to know how this works.

I mean, neither matchup was on Wilton or NC's schedule at any point this season, so it's not like this was a case of them deciding they were scrimmaging after the fact. These were straight up scrimmages and should be treated with the appropriate grain of salt. In an actual game this year, GA was beaten by Ridgefield, who Wilton just squashed 21-6

That’s my point. They keep it off the schedule because there’s no upside. They want to play teams like GA and Sacred Heart for the competition, but they don’t want the loss so they call it a scrimmage. Same date the last two years it was a game, this year a scrimmage. Believe the girls and coaches did not treat it like a scrimmage. Just wondering why it’s labels that way. GA plays Greenwich High next Friday and it’s another scrimmage. On GA’s schedule but not GHS. Anyone know if there is an FCIAC rule?

And that's not at all the point I'm making. GA and Sacred Heart are respected programs, so it's not like this is some no-win situation; scheduling them is no better or worse than scheduling North Shore, CA, or Longmeadow. And Wilton played and beat GA last year so we know that they are not ducking them. Most likely explanation is that Wilton simply chose to fill their allotted game slate (CIAC teams can only play a certain amount of regular season games) with other teams, and then decided later on to add a tune-up scrimmage to stay sharp with another quality team in the area.

[Bystanders]

Got it. That makes sense. So there is a cap on OOC games and Wilton just shifted the designation this year on the game vs GA so as to include Shenendehowa, Canandaigua, Bronxville, and Mt Sinai (rained out) as real games. Must be a cap of four OOC.

Likely the same reason that Darien MLax v Brunswick was a mid-season scrimmage for two years before it became a game for the last three seasons. They must have dropped someone to make room.

[random observer]

Got it. That makes sense. So there is a cap on OOC games and Wilton just shifted the designation this year on the game vs GA so as to include Shenendehowa, Canandaigua, Bronxville, and Mt Sinai (rained out) as real games. Must be a cap of four OOC.

Likely the same reason that Darien MLax v Brunswick was a mid-season scrimmage for two years before it became a game for the last three seasons. They must have dropped someone to make room.

Darien and Brunswick have never scrimmaged in recent memory. But yes, they were able to add Brunswick in 2018 because Trinity Catholic dropped varsity lacrosse as a sport. That led to having to play one fewer FCIAC game, which allowed them to play one extra OOC game (CIAC states that teams can play a maximum of 16 regular season games).

[njbill]

I’ll toss in my two cents since it is so rare I get to talk about HS these days on fanlax.

A key determinant in whether a contest is a scrimmage or a game is the state or league rules that apply to the teams. Three general rules come to mind. One is the permissible start date for scrimmages and for games. This year Moorestown was unable to attend a scrimmage in Delaware because the never sweats at the NJSIAA, in their infinite wisdom, axed our TOC and moved the season back so that the permissible start date for scrimmages was after the Delaware event.

So we went up to CT and scrimmaged New Canaan and Wilton in the last week of March. These scrimmages were after NJ’s start date for scrimmages but before the permissible start date for actual games. Don’t recall if the CT teams could have called them games, but we could not. We had our starters in for the large majority of the scrimmages. Don’t know the CT teams very well, but my sense is they played starters in the first half and into the second.

Two, there is usually a limit on the permissible number of total games and number of OOS games a team can play (and sometimes a limit on the number of out of county or league games). In NJ, we have limits on total games and OOS games, but no separate limit on out of county or league games. At least years ago, Maryland publics had limits on the number of out of county (I think it was county) games they could play.

In NJ a public could theoretically play all of its games against NJ privates (out of county and out of league) without violating any rules. Don’t know what the CT limits are. Assuming there are limits on the number of total games, I could see that limit coming into play here. Or maybe CT has limits on out of conference games or games against privates.

Oldtimers may recall Vero Beach of Florida, which for some years was a top national team, got themselves disqualified from their state playoffs one year because they played too many OOS games. There even was litigation. Vero ended up losing the lawsuit and eventually had to forfeit their title.

Three, there can be rules about how many games a team can play in one day or in one week. In Jersey we don't have a limit on games in a day, but we can only play three games per week. Don’t know if they still have this rule, but years ago NY only permitted a team to play one game per day. Moorestown held an in-season tournament one year at which a NY team participated, along with NJ and PA teams. The second “game” of the day for the NY team had to be a “scrimmage” so they didn’t run afoul of their rules.

My observation is that coaches often play “high profile” scrimmages just like a regular game, at least until the outcome is clear. It’s not uncommon for regular game clock rules to be used. The coaches decide on that ahead of time. When Moorestown scrimmaged McDonogh in 2014 (McCool vs. Whittle), the coaches absolutely played the scrimmage like a game, though scrimmage clock rules were used because the organizer of the multi-team scrimmage (in Delaware) set the rules.

I’ve seen a bunch of games/scrimmages in CT in the past two years. I was curious as to why it appeared the CT publics didn’t play the privates. I asked a CT parent why that was, but don’t recall the answer. Whatever it was, I think it made sense. I’ll be up at the CT HS tournament again this summer and will try to remember to ask about this in more detail.

As to these recent contests between CT publics and privates, I would think the coaches agreed ahead of time whether the contest would be a scrimmage or game. Don’t know if there was any arm wrestling about that, but I’d be surprised if there was. While NJ rules permit in-season scrimmages, I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard of one. In terms of how meaningful the results are, I think you’d have to have seen the contests and know the rosters. Could be anything from 100% meaningful to something less than that.

Sounds like there is a history of CT publics and privates having in-season scrimmages. I suspect there is also a track record of how coaches typically play those games (all game, more game than scrimmage, more scrimmage than game). I would guess those are great events for the players. The girls likely know each other from the same town or club or other glax events. I’ll bet the girls don’t really care if it’s a game or scrimmage. They are glad to play against a tough opponent and against friends and clubmates.

These are great days for CT lacrosse. Best era ever? CT has never had a national no. 1 team. Darien hasn’t crossed the finish line yet, and they still probably have two New Canaan battles to go, but the Blue Wave has had a remarkable season so far. They put together one of the best and toughest national schedules I’ve ever seen.

[njbill]

Darien has one game left in their season, the state finals on June 12 against New Canaan. If they win, they will go undefeated this year and will be the undisputed national no. 1 for the first time in their history.

[JoeMauer89]

Darien 14 New Canaan 13 Final

Always a great battle. I guess it was delayed due to weather until tonight?

Joe

[njbill]

Yeah, the game was originally supposed to be played last night, but got delayed due to expected thunderstorms.

Sounds like a wild game. I believe video replay is available on NFHS but you have to be a subscriber or at least pay for one month ($12).

[JoeMauer89]

njbill,

Here is the Gains for Brains Matchups for 2024
Saturday April 27th, 2024

1) Manhasset Vs Darien (CT) at 6PM

2) Garden City Vs Oak Knoll School (NJ) 5PM

3) Cold Spring Harbor Vs William Floyd (NY) at 7PM (A new addition, this definitely has to due with showcasing Kayla Gilmore from William Floyd, one of the top 2024's in the country headed to Maryland)

4) St Anthony's Vs Summit (NJ) 3PM

5) Massapequa Vs Suffern (NY) 4PM

6) Ward Melville Vs New Canaan (CT) 1PM

7) Eastport South-Manor Vs Nyack (NY) 12PM (I believe Nyack is another new addition)

8) Ridgewood (NJ) Vs Sacred Heart (NY) 2PM

9) West Islip Vs Wilton (CT) 11AM

10) Saint Dominic (NY) Vs Greenwich Academy (CT) 10AM - (St Dominic's from LI is a new addition, coached by Christina Esposito who played at Northwestern)


Should be some very nice matchups, whoever is planning on going enjoy it!

Joe

[njbill]

Joe, thanks for posting this. Very interesting matchups to be sure. Glad to see three Jersey teams attending. These probably will be three of the top five teams in the state, or better. I wish Moorestown would return to the event. I’m going to try to get up there for at least part of the day. No rain this year, please.

[ertrader]

I THINK it's Ridgewood vs Sacred Heart LI not CT based on what I have heard, but of course could be wrong.

[JoeMauer89]

I THINK it's Ridgewood vs Sacred Heart LI not CT based on what I have heard, but of course could be wrong.

That makes more sense, thank you!

Joe

[totc]

Holy goodness. That's a great lineup for G 4 B this year!

[JoeMauer89]

Holy goodness. That's a great lineup for G 4 B this year!

Best lineup yet!

Joe

[totc]

Holy goodness. That's a great lineup for G 4 B this year!

Best lineup yet!

Joe

It looks like half of the games will be made available on the NFHS Network -- the ones that start on odd-numbered hours 11 a.m., 1 p.m., 3 p.m., 5 p.m., and 7 p.m.