Sensible Gun Safety

[cradleandshoot]

For cradle's benefit, Gov. Hochul was on Morning Joe this AM talking about the revisions to bail discretion that they've put through that enables judges to have some discretion as to who to hold, who to have higher bail, etc, enabling judges to actually hold tougher over a broader spectrum of crimes rather than mandating release with low or no bail for lesser crimes. Prior rules had judges handcuffed, forced to release. But there's differing implementation by judges that result in some head scratchers...assault of a police officer?

Violent crime is down by a lot in NY, but the current focus is now on escalating lesser, typically property crimes in which the perps feel they can operate with near impunity. Mostly organized, gang crime. Very frustrating to police.

I didn't hear this, but sounds like they need to somehow differentiate between the organized behaviors and the petty one offs that kids or desperate folks might do on their own.

Damn, no cable no MSNBC. Gov. Hochul has been dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Bail reform as passed by the fanatical FLP tyrants that run this state have proven to be an abysmal failure. The KIA boys proved that last year. 3300 plus vehicles stolen for joy rides in Rochester alone. The vast majority of these thefts were younguns under 16. On the rare occasions that they were caught all the police could do was issue an appearance ticket, pat the young thief on the fanny and send them on their way. Gov. Hochul isn't stupid. She finally came to the conclusion that what the Democrats were doing in this state was a disaster of epic proportions. By that I mean the out of control crime was going to bite the Democrats in the butt come election. Even NYS Republicans as stupid as they are understand an opportunity when it's handed to them.

Long read, but thorough. No need for cable.
Beginning in 2020, Hochul has put through 3 modifications to bail, after the law preceding her election had issues that needed to be tightened up.

https://www.cityandstateny.com/policy/2 ... on/385379/

How is violent crime doing in New York cradle?
How is the state doing comparatively nationally? For instance, how is the homicide rate compare? How is trending?

Violent crime?? That depends what day it is. This is anecdotal but some poor guy was robbed coming out of a convenient store on Bay St on Christmas day. They beat him to a bloody pulp. He died yesterday at Strong hospital. Maybe you should ask his family members about violent crime in NYS? I'm sure they have an opinion that doesn't get whitewashed in the world of statistics.

[MDlaxfan76]

For cradle's benefit, Gov. Hochul was on Morning Joe this AM talking about the revisions to bail discretion that they've put through that enables judges to have some discretion as to who to hold, who to have higher bail, etc, enabling judges to actually hold tougher over a broader spectrum of crimes rather than mandating release with low or no bail for lesser crimes. Prior rules had judges handcuffed, forced to release. But there's differing implementation by judges that result in some head scratchers...assault of a police officer?

Violent crime is down by a lot in NY, but the current focus is now on escalating lesser, typically property crimes in which the perps feel they can operate with near impunity. Mostly organized, gang crime. Very frustrating to police.

I didn't hear this, but sounds like they need to somehow differentiate between the organized behaviors and the petty one offs that kids or desperate folks might do on their own.

Damn, no cable no MSNBC. Gov. Hochul has been dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Bail reform as passed by the fanatical FLP tyrants that run this state have proven to be an abysmal failure. The KIA boys proved that last year. 3300 plus vehicles stolen for joy rides in Rochester alone. The vast majority of these thefts were younguns under 16. On the rare occasions that they were caught all the police could do was issue an appearance ticket, pat the young thief on the fanny and send them on their way. Gov. Hochul isn't stupid. She finally came to the conclusion that what the Democrats were doing in this state was a disaster of epic proportions. By that I mean the out of control crime was going to bite the Democrats in the butt come election. Even NYS Republicans as stupid as they are understand an opportunity when it's handed to them.

Long read, but thorough. No need for cable.
Beginning in 2020, Hochul has put through 3 modifications to bail, after the law preceding her election had issues that needed to be tightened up.

https://www.cityandstateny.com/policy/2 ... on/385379/

How is violent crime doing in New York cradle?
How is the state doing comparatively nationally? For instance, how is the homicide rate compare? How is trending?

Violent crime?? That depends what day it is. This is anecdotal but some poor guy was robbed coming out of a convenient store on Bay St on Christmas day. They beat him to a bloody pulp. He died yesterday at Strong hospital. Maybe you should ask his family members about violent crime in NYS? I'm sure they have an opinion that doesn't get whitewashed in the world of statistics.

Yup, violent crime is awful. I asked you more specific questions.

Try just homicides as it’s easier to track per capita.

How is that rate versus historical rates per capita? Was it better when you were a youth or young man, or worse?

And how does it compare with other states?

Should not be difficult for you to get and share those numbers.

But meanwhile I think that long article is a far better primer on your state’s bail reform matters than short blurbs in local newspapers or newscasts. Please do get back to us after reading.

[cradleandshoot]

For cradle's benefit, Gov. Hochul was on Morning Joe this AM talking about the revisions to bail discretion that they've put through that enables judges to have some discretion as to who to hold, who to have higher bail, etc, enabling judges to actually hold tougher over a broader spectrum of crimes rather than mandating release with low or no bail for lesser crimes. Prior rules had judges handcuffed, forced to release. But there's differing implementation by judges that result in some head scratchers...assault of a police officer?

Violent crime is down by a lot in NY, but the current focus is now on escalating lesser, typically property crimes in which the perps feel they can operate with near impunity. Mostly organized, gang crime. Very frustrating to police.

I didn't hear this, but sounds like they need to somehow differentiate between the organized behaviors and the petty one offs that kids or desperate folks might do on their own.

Damn, no cable no MSNBC. Gov. Hochul has been dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Bail reform as passed by the fanatical FLP tyrants that run this state have proven to be an abysmal failure. The KIA boys proved that last year. 3300 plus vehicles stolen for joy rides in Rochester alone. The vast majority of these thefts were younguns under 16. On the rare occasions that they were caught all the police could do was issue an appearance ticket, pat the young thief on the fanny and send them on their way. Gov. Hochul isn't stupid. She finally came to the conclusion that what the Democrats were doing in this state was a disaster of epic proportions. By that I mean the out of control crime was going to bite the Democrats in the butt come election. Even NYS Republicans as stupid as they are understand an opportunity when it's handed to them.

Long read, but thorough. No need for cable.
Beginning in 2020, Hochul has put through 3 modifications to bail, after the law preceding her election had issues that needed to be tightened up.

https://www.cityandstateny.com/policy/2 ... on/385379/

How is violent crime doing in New York cradle?
How is the state doing comparatively nationally? For instance, how is the homicide rate compare? How is trending?

Violent crime?? That depends what day it is. This is anecdotal but some poor guy was robbed coming out of a convenient store on Bay St on Christmas day. They beat him to a bloody pulp. He died yesterday at Strong hospital. Maybe you should ask his family members about violent crime in NYS? I'm sure they have an opinion that doesn't get whitewashed in the world of statistics.

Yup, violent crime is awful. I asked you more specific questions.

Try just homicides as it’s easier to track per capita.

How is that rate versus historical rates per capita? Was it better when you were a youth or young man, or worse?

And how does it compare with other states?

Should not be difficult for you to get and share those numbers.

But meanwhile I think that long article is a far better primer on your state’s bail reform matters than short blurbs in local newspapers or newscasts. Please do get back to us after reading.

I'll read the article. I'm not impressed by statistical analysis all that much. They tend to be cyclical in nature. It is always positive to see violent crime trending down. What goes down always seems to come back up. Most of these violent crimes are either gang related or are crimes of opportunity. I do know of one family that will grieve every Christmas never understand why their loved one was horribly beaten just to steal a few bucks. Those are the human emotions that don't find their way into any statistics.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Parent of Oxford HS shooter guilty of four counts of involuntary manslaughter. Gun safety regulation.

[MDlaxfan76]

For cradle's benefit, Gov. Hochul was on Morning Joe this AM talking about the revisions to bail discretion that they've put through that enables judges to have some discretion as to who to hold, who to have higher bail, etc, enabling judges to actually hold tougher over a broader spectrum of crimes rather than mandating release with low or no bail for lesser crimes. Prior rules had judges handcuffed, forced to release. But there's differing implementation by judges that result in some head scratchers...assault of a police officer?

Violent crime is down by a lot in NY, but the current focus is now on escalating lesser, typically property crimes in which the perps feel they can operate with near impunity. Mostly organized, gang crime. Very frustrating to police.

I didn't hear this, but sounds like they need to somehow differentiate between the organized behaviors and the petty one offs that kids or desperate folks might do on their own.

Damn, no cable no MSNBC. Gov. Hochul has been dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Bail reform as passed by the fanatical FLP tyrants that run this state have proven to be an abysmal failure. The KIA boys proved that last year. 3300 plus vehicles stolen for joy rides in Rochester alone. The vast majority of these thefts were younguns under 16. On the rare occasions that they were caught all the police could do was issue an appearance ticket, pat the young thief on the fanny and send them on their way. Gov. Hochul isn't stupid. She finally came to the conclusion that what the Democrats were doing in this state was a disaster of epic proportions. By that I mean the out of control crime was going to bite the Democrats in the butt come election. Even NYS Republicans as stupid as they are understand an opportunity when it's handed to them.

Long read, but thorough. No need for cable.
Beginning in 2020, Hochul has put through 3 modifications to bail, after the law preceding her election had issues that needed to be tightened up.

https://www.cityandstateny.com/policy/2 ... on/385379/

How is violent crime doing in New York cradle?
How is the state doing comparatively nationally? For instance, how is the homicide rate compare? How is trending?

Violent crime?? That depends what day it is. This is anecdotal but some poor guy was robbed coming out of a convenient store on Bay St on Christmas day. They beat him to a bloody pulp. He died yesterday at Strong hospital. Maybe you should ask his family members about violent crime in NYS? I'm sure they have an opinion that doesn't get whitewashed in the world of statistics.

Yup, violent crime is awful. I asked you more specific questions.

Try just homicides as it’s easier to track per capita.

How is that rate versus historical rates per capita? Was it better when you were a youth or young man, or worse?

And how does it compare with other states?

Should not be difficult for you to get and share those numbers.

But meanwhile I think that long article is a far better primer on your state’s bail reform matters than short blurbs in local newspapers or newscasts. Please do get back to us after reading.

I'll read the article. I'm not impressed by statistical analysis all that much. They tend to be cyclical in nature. It is always positive to see violent crime trending down. What goes down always seems to come back up. Most of these violent crimes are either gang related or are crimes of opportunity. I do know of one family that will grieve every Christmas never understand why their loved one was horribly beaten just to steal a few bucks. Those are the human emotions that don't find their way into any statistics.

yes, crime can indeed be cyclical.
But stats actually do matter in order to have some perspective so that we don't get overly persuaded by media alarmism, looking for ratings over reality or by partisan media and politicians looking to score points, who cares about facts?

They also matter as we think about what sorts of policies help and which do not.

And I obviously agree re the impact of crime on those who are victims.

[youthathletics]

Jury finds Jennifer Crumbley guilty of involuntary manslaughter in son's school shooting

https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-reaches- ... =106924349

[ardilla secreta]

Jury finds Jennifer Crumbley guilty of involuntary manslaughter in son's school shooting

https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-reaches- ... =106924349

The boy has mental health issues. Let’s get him a gun!

The verdict is not fair to the mom who was too busy with her horses and affairs with other men.

[Farfromgeneva]

This is a very strange place sometimes. Made an observation about a specific incident where it was discouraging to me that an arrested party was granted bail due to the circumstances surrounding his arrest. And here we are.

I have no interest in bail being used as a punitive pre-conviction sledge hammer. I hate that our justice system nuts to bolts is a dysfunctional dumpster fire where rights and fairness are regularly lost in the maelstrom. Unacceptable. Frustrating. A serious overhaul, and the establishment of a system of oversight, are long overdue.

If Mr. Nance's 2A rights were to be taken away, it would have only been after a felony conviction by a jury of his peers. What are the posters here suggesting we do regarding bail for those arrested for violent crimes committed with illegal weapons? Let's stay on point: Legitimate arrests, where legitimate probable cause and evidence exists. Nance doesn't fit the bill? Then who does? Enlighten me. Help me understand.

Are you saying you're good with taking away the hypothetical violent offender's guns pre-conviction? The heck with "legal" or "illegal" weapon, you're saying the when police and prosecutor's feel the offender is the exact right cat they've arrested who did the violence ("Legitimate arrests, where legitimate probable cause and evidence exists.") Criminal using a gun to commit the crime...who has guns, right? Just not yet convicted...judges should be able to quickly say, yup, remove the guns pending trial?

Incarceration is a heck of a lot more of restriction of one's rights than removal of guns...so, that must be your position, right?

BTW, I agree that it's "discouraging" that bail is granted to the known violent offenders. A lot of things are frustrating....another is that stiff penalties aren't often enough assessed to those who attack police without a self-defense situation. That seems more fixable than the prior.

It's also more fixable to have tougher gun registration, safety and red flag laws, stronger penalties for illegal weapons, and restrictions on high capacity weapons.

None of it is sufficient by itself, but the culture of violence and the glorification of guns is a big part of the problem.

I am NOT saying I'm good with the removal of the violent offender's guns pre-conviction. I'm endeavored to say, in my opinion, based on the circumstances surrounding his arrest, and previous record, it is a travesty he was granted bail. If he hadn't violated his bail conditions - and murdered 8 people - he would have faced a jury of his peers where, if convicted of a felony, he would have lost his right to own firearms. My original post on this person/event had at its crux this basic premise and observation by myself.

We'll have to see what SCOTUS comes up with on the Rahimi case regarding much of what you refer to above. That one's a sticky wicket because Garland chose such a scum bag as a crash test dummy.

On your fixable list, I've shared in this thread above my thoughts on what I feel are needed checks and balances which currently don't exist as ERPO's are being written into law. Safe storage is a great idea, when approached voluntarily and via education and public awareness campaigns. Again, in my opinion. Not a fan of registration and the slippery slope it ushers in.

Strongly agree on culture of violence as big part of problem. Disagree on the glorification of guns as part of the problem, except as it exists within the culture of violence, and in a small percentage of overall law-abiding legal gun owners who are fringe, extreme, and unsettling in their ideals.

Appreciate and respect your replies.

Mr. Geneva: You will be pleased to know I am, without prejudice, consciously uncoupling from our interactions, and moving far, far away.

Be well.

ok, but that then blows a big hole in your willingness to sacrifice individual rights.
If you don't see the hypocrisy, I probably am speaking to deaf ears.

Personally, I can't imagine a more important right under our system than due process before incarceration.
Of course, there are societies which disagree.

In some, certain kinds of crimes are indeed curtailed to near non existent. They have differing "travesty" issues.

I am 100% not in favor of anyone having individual rights denied. Incarceration should only occur if one is found guilty and so sentenced by a judge - after a trial by a jury of one's peers. Not sure where I wrote or implied otherwise. When I first posted about Mr. Nance, I felt he had checked the boxes (second paragraph) to earn a "maybe this individual shouldn't get bail" exception:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/excessive_bail

That's what was top of mind. Not that 99.99% of folks arrested should have any of their rights violated. But rather that the 0.01% "second paragraph box checkers" might just be deserving of being held over for trial without bail - as doing so will potentially benefit public safety. I obviously need to communicate my thoughts more clearly. Or leave them in my head! I'll try to do better moving forward. Apologies.

Don’t we have instances when people are held without bail in this country?

Only if you are lucky enough to catch the criminals first.

I believe you are not a criminal until after the trial and conviction or plea.

My bad.... alleged criminals.... of course the alleged criminal could have a past criminal conviction which thereby technically makes him a former criminal and an alleged criminal as well.

And yet despite all your wasted effort there to say something, a former and alleged criminal is in fact not a criminal. Language matters.

They can't be considered wasted now can they? They got your attention.

I’d submit you should have higher goals in life.

[Farfromgeneva]

For cradle's benefit, Gov. Hochul was on Morning Joe this AM talking about the revisions to bail discretion that they've put through that enables judges to have some discretion as to who to hold, who to have higher bail, etc, enabling judges to actually hold tougher over a broader spectrum of crimes rather than mandating release with low or no bail for lesser crimes. Prior rules had judges handcuffed, forced to release. But there's differing implementation by judges that result in some head scratchers...assault of a police officer?

Violent crime is down by a lot in NY, but the current focus is now on escalating lesser, typically property crimes in which the perps feel they can operate with near impunity. Mostly organized, gang crime. Very frustrating to police.

I didn't hear this, but sounds like they need to somehow differentiate between the organized behaviors and the petty one offs that kids or desperate folks might do on their own.

Damn, no cable no MSNBC. Gov. Hochul has been dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Bail reform as passed by the fanatical FLP tyrants that run this state have proven to be an abysmal failure. The KIA boys proved that last year. 3300 plus vehicles stolen for joy rides in Rochester alone. The vast majority of these thefts were younguns under 16. On the rare occasions that they were caught all the police could do was issue an appearance ticket, pat the young thief on the fanny and send them on their way. Gov. Hochul isn't stupid. She finally came to the conclusion that what the Democrats were doing in this state was a disaster of epic proportions. By that I mean the out of control crime was going to bite the Democrats in the butt come election. Even NYS Republicans as stupid as they are understand an opportunity when it's handed to them.

https://youtu.be/XjMNOouIb0k?si=ND4anHzEu57G-Luw

[Typical Lax Dad]

The police don’t understand the 2A!

[jhu72]

10 people reported to have been shot at Kansas City Chief SB celebration.

[youthathletics]

Chicago Mayor, ending Shot SPotter, even though law enforcement argues it helps: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13 ... ter-summer

Criminals win, again.

[youthathletics]

10 people reported to have been shot at Kansas City Chief SB celebration.

Careful....this came from a query of the word chiefs....it may trigger some; pardon the pun.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Chiefs&src=typed_query

[Typical Lax Dad]

10 people reported to have been shot at Kansas City Chief SB celebration.

Careful....this came from a query of the word chiefs....it may trigger some; pardon the pun.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Chiefs&src=typed_query

[jhu72]

Chicago Mayor, ending Shot SPotter, even though law enforcement argues it helps: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/02/13 ... ter-summer

Criminals win, again.

... sounds to me like the technology doesn't work very well. The city is going to look at another competitor.

[youthathletics]

10 people reported to have been shot at Kansas City Chief SB celebration.

Careful....this came from a query of the word chiefs....it may trigger some; pardon the pun.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Chiefs&src=typed_query

Chiefs Fans tackle what appears to be one of the shooters. https://x.com/jasrifootball/status/1757 ... 32892?s=20

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/14/12314942 ... bowl-rally

[Typical Lax Dad]

I wonder why MSM won’t show the shooter’s face?

[Seacoaster(1)]

Twelve people hospitalized including nine children with bullet wounds. At a Super Bowl celebration. American exceptionalism at work again. Isn’t it just sad what our once beautiful country has become?

[PizzaSnake]

Twelve people hospitalized including nine children with bullet wounds. At a Super Bowl celebration. American exceptionalism at work again. Isn’t it just sad what our once beautiful country has become?

"It just seems to me seems to me, that only a really low IQ population could have taken this beautiful continent, this magnificent American landscape that we inherited… Well, actually, we stole it from the Mexicans and the Indians but. Hey, it was nice when we stole it. It looked pretty good. It was pristine. Paradise. Have you seen it lately? Have you taken a good look at it lately? It’s fcuking embarrassing. Only a nation of unenlightened half-wits could have taken this beautiful place and turned it into what it is today, a shopping mall. A big, fcuking shopping mall. You know that. That’s all you got. That’s all you got here, folks. Mile after mile of mall after mall. Many, many malls. Major malls and mini malls. They put the mini malls in between the major malls. And in between the mini malls they put the mini marts. And in between the mini marts. You’ve got the car lots, gas stations, muffler shops, Laundromats, cheap hotels, fast food joints, strip clubs and dirty bookstores. America the beautiful. One big transcontinental commercial cesspool. And how do the people feel about all this? How do the people feel about living in a coast-to-coast shopping mall? Well, they think it’s JUST FCUKING DANDY! They think it is as cool as can be. Because Americans love the mall. They love the mall. That’s where they get to satisfy their two most prominent addictions at the same time. Shopping and eating. Millions of semiconscious Americans day after day shuffling through the malls shopping and eating. Especially eating. Americans love to eat. They are fatally attracted to the slow death of fast food. Hot dogs, corn dogs, triple bacon cheeseburgers, deep-fried butter dipped in pork fat and cheesewhiz, mayonnaise-soaked barbecue, mozzarella patty melts. America will eat anything. Anything. Anything. Siht, if you were selling sautéed raccoons azzholes on a stick, Americans would buy them and eat them. Especially if you dipped them in butter and put a little salsa on them. This country is big-time pig time. Forget the bald eagle. You know what the national emblem of this country ought to be? A big bowl of macaroni and cheese. A BIG BOWL. Because everything in this country is king size. King size, extra large and SUPER JUMBO. Especially the fcuking people!" -- George Carlin

[NattyBohChamps04]

10 people reported to have been shot at Kansas City Chief SB celebration.

Careful....this came from a query of the word chiefs....it may trigger some; pardon the pun.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Chiefs&src=typed_query

Why didn't you put this in the LGBTQ thread? Did it not trigger you in that way?