NCAA reorg imminent

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Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22663
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Re: athlete compensation in ncaa subdivision

Post by Farfromgeneva »

laxpert wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:09 pm https://theathletic.com/5114092/2023/12 ... lie-baker/

Not sure of the ramifications this could have on Men's lacrosse .
How do we know the ncaa exists or controls the money football schools, for lack of a better description, in five years?

Why would these schools give up economics to a SRO that’s been deemed toothless by the Supreme Court, doesn’t add that much value for only 60-80 schools vs hundreds (thousands in total 4yr institutions) and subsidize the other institutions?

Even if they needed an SRO to keep the govt off their backs they’d been incentivized to create a new one that recycles that capital minus the slippage back into just those institutions? Like Guggenheim did when they set up a non profit they control and then manage the jon profits money for the Mgt fee. Or private equity buying up insurers for the general account capital.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22663
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

OCanada wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:20 pm Thete will be many more college closures moving forward as well as dropped sports.


https://www.highereddive.com/news/colle ... ny/690293/
Property and casualty premiums. People may scoff at this but this single line item alone probably increases opex/revenues but 50-100bps (0.50%-1.00%). For institutions that often utilize their 5% non profit “dividend” kicked to the operating budget that is eating away at their reserve balance at the same time endowments got crushed in 2022. And we haven’t hit a economic cycle in 15yrs.

https://content.naic.org/sites/default/ ... Report.pdf

All at the same time that demography is hammering the outlook too. At least that was forecastable for more than a 5yr plan. But this is how Hemingway nails the bankruptcy process…
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
droliver
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:04 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by droliver »

44WeWantMore wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:27 am Direct compensation from the school to the player certainly would keep a compliance lawyer up at night, but an across-the-board incentive plan might fly. So the Football players get a percentage (say, 10%) of their television rights, and the squash players get the exact same (10%) of their television rights. All that is required would be for the broadcasters to unbundle their negotiations to be sport-by-sport, team-by-team, instead of at the conference level.
That's not what's been discussed. The football and basketball players at the highest level would presumably be getting max compensation and the schools would have to offset women athletes $ for $ for title IX. That's going to be an ENORMOUS expense. The only way to make the #'s work is to reduce the non-revenue men's teams and cut women's sports to the mininum # for offsets
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22663
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Jason Gay’s conclusion is where I arrived over ten years ago.


The NCAA Wants to Pay College Athletes. It Doesn’t Really Have a Choice.

A new proposal outlines a radical future for college sports—but the courts are likely to get there first

Jason Gay
As soon as schools decided they had to pay head coaches $1 million a season, then $5 million a season, and now $10 million a season—with buyouts hitting $75 million, enough to buy an island or an archipelago—we were destined to land right here.

Ditto those multimillion-dollar sports megaplexes, with their state-of-art training facilities, and lavish locker rooms designed to make players sign on the dotted line.

The crazy money got too crazy to ignore. Everyone—not just the sports economists, who had been howling about it for ages—realized that big-time college football and basketball weren’t quaint amateur competitions, but effectively billion-dollar cartels, stuffed with TV cash.

Reality couldn’t be denied. Colleges and universities had created a full-blown market economy in which only one participant was denied full financial access:

The athlete.

Dec. 5, 2023. Write it down. It’s the day the NCAA stopped denying the obvious, and started calling a duck a duck. Quack!

On Tuesday the new(ish) NCAA boss Charlie Baker sent a letter to Division I member schools proposing a series of reforms to “enhance the financial opportunities available to all Division I athletes.” Under the proposed overhaul, Division I schools would be allowed to enter name, image, likeness (NIL) agreements with their own athletes, and they would have no limit on “any level of enhanced educational benefits they deem appropriate.”

More radically, Baker proposed a breakaway subdivision for schools with the resources to pay—all but paving the way for a conscious uncoupling between the college sports haves and have nots. He outlined an environment in which athletes in this subdivision would be required to be directly compensated at least $30,000 per year, through a trust.

Is the NCAA having a sudden epiphany?

Nah. They’re reading the room. College sports are under historic legal scrutiny. The Supreme Court laughed the NCAA’s amateurism claims out of the room in 2021. Pending decisions about granting athletes employee status (Johnson v. NCAA) and back pay for name, image likeness (House v. NCAA)—not to mention Dartmouth basketball’s ongoing effort to unionize—are likely to reshape the college sports landscape long before any widespread action can be taken on Baker’s initiative.

This isn’t the NCAA getting out in front. This is jumping on a train that’s already going 110 MPH down the track.

Kentucky’s bench celebrates during a game against Marshall. Photo: James Crisp/Associated Press
The NCAA wants protection, of course, in the form of antitrust exemption—this is where the Supreme Court, in particular Justice Brett Kavanaugh, argued that they are extremely vulnerable—but they’re not exactly getting a fast assist from legislators. The current Congress can’t agree on the day of the week. The idea that it will swiftly step in with some kind of comprehensive college sports reform and antitrust Kryptonite is a comical hope.

So where does it leave college sports? In a mess! Of course, it’s already a mess, with the chaos of the transfer portal and fenceless rodeo of name, image, likeness, to say nothing about the still-fuming Seminole football fans in Tallahassee. We now live in a world in which Ohio State’s starting quarterback has decided to jump back into the market, and booster “collectives” have weaponized NIL into a turbocharged bank account to land fresh talent. I wake up every day expecting to hear about a new collective, promising unicorns and invisible helicopters for promising linemen.

The NCAA blew it on NIL, Baker said it himself—“it was a big mistake by the NCAA not to do a framework around NIL when they had the opportunity to,” he said earlier this year. This latest proposal is an effort to get ahead and control the game on athlete compensation, rather than tempt another free-for-all.

And even if there’s buy in, it’s going to be crisis-level hard, trying to figure out how it’s all supposed to work—what to do about the vast majority of school sports that don’t generate revenue, rely on the revenue sports for sustenance, and be inclusive of women’s sports, which are obligated via Title IX to be treated equitably.

Baker’s recommendation for the $30,000 minimum stipends contains an edict that the amount is offered to “at least half” of all athletes playing sports for the school—and also comply with Title IX requirements. Can you imagine how fraught that process will be? Ditto NIL, which the NCAA seems to prefer to have schools manage. Good luck. Have you met a booster?

I haven’t even gotten to the argument that schools may be forced to roll back their exorbitant spending on coaching salaries and facilities to pay for some of this. (At least Jim Harbaugh said he would be cool with a pay cut.) Or the possibility that mammoth TV deals can’t be counted on as a money faucet, as legacy broadcast/cable shrinks and tech companies control the pipes. (I would rather hang on the outside of a rocket bound for Mars than be a DI athletic director right now.)

The most fascinating scenario in Baker’s letter is the new subdivision—a split between schools with the resources to go bonkers on college sports, and schools that want to bow out and have a cup of decaf. It sounds simple, in a way: A series of colleges that go back to being colleges, and then a professional college league of top-tier teams with their own rules. Television would do jumping jacks for such a rarefied (read: no scrubs) product. Maybe the NFL and the NBA, decades into the biggest free ride in the history of sports, could be talked into coming on board.

Of course it won’t be simple. Imagine being the college president telling alumni they are withdrawing from the college sports arms race and don’t want to play in the fancy professional league. Some alumni will be relieved, embracing a calming reset where sports are deprioritized. Other alumni will lose their minds. It’s going to be hard.

But as the NCAA’s failed battle against NIL showed, this is going to be hard isn’t a winning legal strategy, and the courts are almost surely going to get to it first.

It was bound to come to this. College sports set it into motion long ago. And now here we are.

Write to Jason Gay at [email protected]

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Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
OCanada
Posts: 3199
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by OCanada »

I do not know what took him so long. I got a personal tour by a PAC 10 coach in 2003. Years later i am still astounded by what i saw.
OCanada
Posts: 3199
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by OCanada »

I do not know what took him so long. I got a personal tour by a PAC 10 coach in 2003. Years later i am still astounded by what i saw.
PizzaSnake
Posts: 4853
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by PizzaSnake »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:07 am Jason Gay’s conclusion is where I arrived over ten years ago.


The NCAA Wants to Pay College Athletes. It Doesn’t Really Have a Choice.

A new proposal outlines a radical future for college sports—but the courts are likely to get there first

Jason Gay
As soon as schools decided they had to pay head coaches $1 million a season, then $5 million a season, and now $10 million a season—with buyouts hitting $75 million, enough to buy an island or an archipelago—we were destined to land right here.

Ditto those multimillion-dollar sports megaplexes, with their state-of-art training facilities, and lavish locker rooms designed to make players sign on the dotted line.

The crazy money got too crazy to ignore. Everyone—not just the sports economists, who had been howling about it for ages—realized that big-time college football and basketball weren’t quaint amateur competitions, but effectively billion-dollar cartels, stuffed with TV cash.

Reality couldn’t be denied. Colleges and universities had created a full-blown market economy in which only one participant was denied full financial access:

The athlete.

Dec. 5, 2023. Write it down. It’s the day the NCAA stopped denying the obvious, and started calling a duck a duck. Quack!

On Tuesday the new(ish) NCAA boss Charlie Baker sent a letter to Division I member schools proposing a series of reforms to “enhance the financial opportunities available to all Division I athletes.” Under the proposed overhaul, Division I schools would be allowed to enter name, image, likeness (NIL) agreements with their own athletes, and they would have no limit on “any level of enhanced educational benefits they deem appropriate.”

More radically, Baker proposed a breakaway subdivision for schools with the resources to pay—all but paving the way for a conscious uncoupling between the college sports haves and have nots. He outlined an environment in which athletes in this subdivision would be required to be directly compensated at least $30,000 per year, through a trust.

Is the NCAA having a sudden epiphany?

Nah. They’re reading the room. College sports are under historic legal scrutiny. The Supreme Court laughed the NCAA’s amateurism claims out of the room in 2021. Pending decisions about granting athletes employee status (Johnson v. NCAA) and back pay for name, image likeness (House v. NCAA)—not to mention Dartmouth basketball’s ongoing effort to unionize—are likely to reshape the college sports landscape long before any widespread action can be taken on Baker’s initiative.

This isn’t the NCAA getting out in front. This is jumping on a train that’s already going 110 MPH down the track.

Kentucky’s bench celebrates during a game against Marshall. Photo: James Crisp/Associated Press
The NCAA wants protection, of course, in the form of antitrust exemption—this is where the Supreme Court, in particular Justice Brett Kavanaugh, argued that they are extremely vulnerable—but they’re not exactly getting a fast assist from legislators. The current Congress can’t agree on the day of the week. The idea that it will swiftly step in with some kind of comprehensive college sports reform and antitrust Kryptonite is a comical hope.

So where does it leave college sports? In a mess! Of course, it’s already a mess, with the chaos of the transfer portal and fenceless rodeo of name, image, likeness, to say nothing about the still-fuming Seminole football fans in Tallahassee. We now live in a world in which Ohio State’s starting quarterback has decided to jump back into the market, and booster “collectives” have weaponized NIL into a turbocharged bank account to land fresh talent. I wake up every day expecting to hear about a new collective, promising unicorns and invisible helicopters for promising linemen.

The NCAA blew it on NIL, Baker said it himself—“it was a big mistake by the NCAA not to do a framework around NIL when they had the opportunity to,” he said earlier this year. This latest proposal is an effort to get ahead and control the game on athlete compensation, rather than tempt another free-for-all.

And even if there’s buy in, it’s going to be crisis-level hard, trying to figure out how it’s all supposed to work—what to do about the vast majority of school sports that don’t generate revenue, rely on the revenue sports for sustenance, and be inclusive of women’s sports, which are obligated via Title IX to be treated equitably.

Baker’s recommendation for the $30,000 minimum stipends contains an edict that the amount is offered to “at least half” of all athletes playing sports for the school—and also comply with Title IX requirements. Can you imagine how fraught that process will be? Ditto NIL, which the NCAA seems to prefer to have schools manage. Good luck. Have you met a booster?

I haven’t even gotten to the argument that schools may be forced to roll back their exorbitant spending on coaching salaries and facilities to pay for some of this. (At least Jim Harbaugh said he would be cool with a pay cut.) Or the possibility that mammoth TV deals can’t be counted on as a money faucet, as legacy broadcast/cable shrinks and tech companies control the pipes. (I would rather hang on the outside of a rocket bound for Mars than be a DI athletic director right now.)

The most fascinating scenario in Baker’s letter is the new subdivision—a split between schools with the resources to go bonkers on college sports, and schools that want to bow out and have a cup of decaf. It sounds simple, in a way: A series of colleges that go back to being colleges, and then a professional college league of top-tier teams with their own rules. Television would do jumping jacks for such a rarefied (read: no scrubs) product. Maybe the NFL and the NBA, decades into the biggest free ride in the history of sports, could be talked into coming on board.

Of course it won’t be simple. Imagine being the college president telling alumni they are withdrawing from the college sports arms race and don’t want to play in the fancy professional league. Some alumni will be relieved, embracing a calming reset where sports are deprioritized. Other alumni will lose their minds. It’s going to be hard.

But as the NCAA’s failed battle against NIL showed, this is going to be hard isn’t a winning legal strategy, and the courts are almost surely going to get to it first.

It was bound to come to this. College sports set it into motion long ago. And now here we are.

Write to Jason Gay at [email protected]

Advertisement - Scroll to Continue
“Under the proposed overhaul, Division I schools would be allowed to enter name, image, likeness (NIL) agreements with their own athletes, and they would have no limit on “any level of enhanced educational benefits they deem appropriate.”

More radically, Baker proposed a breakaway subdivision for schools with the resources to pay—all but paving the way for a conscious uncoupling between the college sports haves and have nots. He outlined an environment in which athletes in this subdivision would be required to be directly compensated at least $30,000 per year, through a trust.”

If I understand this correctly, still trying to low-ball fcuk the athletes. Fcuk Baker and the horse he rode in on.

NCAA trying to offer price controls as a raison detre. Why would a big-time school not cut them out of the equation?
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22663
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

PizzaSnake wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 5:44 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:07 am Jason Gay’s conclusion is where I arrived over ten years ago.


The NCAA Wants to Pay College Athletes. It Doesn’t Really Have a Choice.

A new proposal outlines a radical future for college sports—but the courts are likely to get there first

Jason Gay
As soon as schools decided they had to pay head coaches $1 million a season, then $5 million a season, and now $10 million a season—with buyouts hitting $75 million, enough to buy an island or an archipelago—we were destined to land right here.

Ditto those multimillion-dollar sports megaplexes, with their state-of-art training facilities, and lavish locker rooms designed to make players sign on the dotted line.

The crazy money got too crazy to ignore. Everyone—not just the sports economists, who had been howling about it for ages—realized that big-time college football and basketball weren’t quaint amateur competitions, but effectively billion-dollar cartels, stuffed with TV cash.

Reality couldn’t be denied. Colleges and universities had created a full-blown market economy in which only one participant was denied full financial access:

The athlete.

Dec. 5, 2023. Write it down. It’s the day the NCAA stopped denying the obvious, and started calling a duck a duck. Quack!

On Tuesday the new(ish) NCAA boss Charlie Baker sent a letter to Division I member schools proposing a series of reforms to “enhance the financial opportunities available to all Division I athletes.” Under the proposed overhaul, Division I schools would be allowed to enter name, image, likeness (NIL) agreements with their own athletes, and they would have no limit on “any level of enhanced educational benefits they deem appropriate.”

More radically, Baker proposed a breakaway subdivision for schools with the resources to pay—all but paving the way for a conscious uncoupling between the college sports haves and have nots. He outlined an environment in which athletes in this subdivision would be required to be directly compensated at least $30,000 per year, through a trust.

Is the NCAA having a sudden epiphany?

Nah. They’re reading the room. College sports are under historic legal scrutiny. The Supreme Court laughed the NCAA’s amateurism claims out of the room in 2021. Pending decisions about granting athletes employee status (Johnson v. NCAA) and back pay for name, image likeness (House v. NCAA)—not to mention Dartmouth basketball’s ongoing effort to unionize—are likely to reshape the college sports landscape long before any widespread action can be taken on Baker’s initiative.

This isn’t the NCAA getting out in front. This is jumping on a train that’s already going 110 MPH down the track.

Kentucky’s bench celebrates during a game against Marshall. Photo: James Crisp/Associated Press
The NCAA wants protection, of course, in the form of antitrust exemption—this is where the Supreme Court, in particular Justice Brett Kavanaugh, argued that they are extremely vulnerable—but they’re not exactly getting a fast assist from legislators. The current Congress can’t agree on the day of the week. The idea that it will swiftly step in with some kind of comprehensive college sports reform and antitrust Kryptonite is a comical hope.

So where does it leave college sports? In a mess! Of course, it’s already a mess, with the chaos of the transfer portal and fenceless rodeo of name, image, likeness, to say nothing about the still-fuming Seminole football fans in Tallahassee. We now live in a world in which Ohio State’s starting quarterback has decided to jump back into the market, and booster “collectives” have weaponized NIL into a turbocharged bank account to land fresh talent. I wake up every day expecting to hear about a new collective, promising unicorns and invisible helicopters for promising linemen.

The NCAA blew it on NIL, Baker said it himself—“it was a big mistake by the NCAA not to do a framework around NIL when they had the opportunity to,” he said earlier this year. This latest proposal is an effort to get ahead and control the game on athlete compensation, rather than tempt another free-for-all.

And even if there’s buy in, it’s going to be crisis-level hard, trying to figure out how it’s all supposed to work—what to do about the vast majority of school sports that don’t generate revenue, rely on the revenue sports for sustenance, and be inclusive of women’s sports, which are obligated via Title IX to be treated equitably.

Baker’s recommendation for the $30,000 minimum stipends contains an edict that the amount is offered to “at least half” of all athletes playing sports for the school—and also comply with Title IX requirements. Can you imagine how fraught that process will be? Ditto NIL, which the NCAA seems to prefer to have schools manage. Good luck. Have you met a booster?

I haven’t even gotten to the argument that schools may be forced to roll back their exorbitant spending on coaching salaries and facilities to pay for some of this. (At least Jim Harbaugh said he would be cool with a pay cut.) Or the possibility that mammoth TV deals can’t be counted on as a money faucet, as legacy broadcast/cable shrinks and tech companies control the pipes. (I would rather hang on the outside of a rocket bound for Mars than be a DI athletic director right now.)

The most fascinating scenario in Baker’s letter is the new subdivision—a split between schools with the resources to go bonkers on college sports, and schools that want to bow out and have a cup of decaf. It sounds simple, in a way: A series of colleges that go back to being colleges, and then a professional college league of top-tier teams with their own rules. Television would do jumping jacks for such a rarefied (read: no scrubs) product. Maybe the NFL and the NBA, decades into the biggest free ride in the history of sports, could be talked into coming on board.

Of course it won’t be simple. Imagine being the college president telling alumni they are withdrawing from the college sports arms race and don’t want to play in the fancy professional league. Some alumni will be relieved, embracing a calming reset where sports are deprioritized. Other alumni will lose their minds. It’s going to be hard.

But as the NCAA’s failed battle against NIL showed, this is going to be hard isn’t a winning legal strategy, and the courts are almost surely going to get to it first.

It was bound to come to this. College sports set it into motion long ago. And now here we are.

Write to Jason Gay at [email protected]

Advertisement - Scroll to Continue
“Under the proposed overhaul, Division I schools would be allowed to enter name, image, likeness (NIL) agreements with their own athletes, and they would have no limit on “any level of enhanced educational benefits they deem appropriate.”

More radically, Baker proposed a breakaway subdivision for schools with the resources to pay—all but paving the way for a conscious uncoupling between the college sports haves and have nots. He outlined an environment in which athletes in this subdivision would be required to be directly compensated at least $30,000 per year, through a trust.”

If I understand this correctly, still trying to low-ball fcuk the athletes. Fcuk Baker and the horse he rode in on.

NCAA trying to offer price controls as a raison detre. Why would a big-time school not cut them out of the equation?
The NCAA and/or the conferences will be gone in ten years. Maybe one org is needed to collectively bargain media deals and related. Maybe. But that’s the entire function not oversight.

And unionization along with antitrust issues are definitely coming.

NCAA is slow because it’s run by higher ed folks mostly trying to run and control a business.

And yes your conclusion that price fixing is the pitch is correct and pathetic on their part (edited for clarity)
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
PulpExposure
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:19 am

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by PulpExposure »

https://x.com/bluebloodsbias/status/173 ... 60830?s=20

Looks like FSU is serious about leaving the ACC in light of being left out of the College Football playoffs, and looking at the Big Ten. The thread has a good explanation of how they could survive the GOR issue.
JoeMauer89
Posts: 1822
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:39 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by JoeMauer89 »

PulpExposure wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 4:39 pm https://x.com/bluebloodsbias/status/173 ... 60830?s=20

Looks like FSU is serious about leaving the ACC in light of being left out of the College Football playoffs, and looking at the Big Ten. The thread has a good explanation of how they could survive the GOR issue.
Being left out of the CFP doesn't change the fact they are not breaking the GOR. Not this early in the game. I don't get how people don't understand this!

Joe
wgdsr
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by wgdsr »

PulpExposure wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 4:39 pm https://x.com/bluebloodsbias/status/173 ... 60830?s=20

Looks like FSU is serious about leaving the ACC in light of being left out of the College Football playoffs, and looking at the Big Ten. The thread has a good explanation of how they could survive the GOR issue.
the thread has no explanation for how they came up with $200 million. before any negotiation, the math is:
$30m + annually for 12 years.
3 years of acc payouts for home games (exit).

that's $450 million plus. and that's not including the acc just might want to go ahead and take any team's new, higher payout from their new league instead as negotiating leverage.

also... the totals listed include the new cfp bump. this source is not serious. what it means - prenegotiation, fsu will forfeit all delta for the increased payout (if they even got a full payout) back to the acc. if they want to negotiate it down, they're borrowing it and paying interest.

i can imagine fsu is pretty ticked that they had 3 acc partisans on the committee, including corrigan as the chair, and they submarined them. so i can see them trying something. we'll see how it goes.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22663
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

wgdsr wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:10 am
PulpExposure wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 4:39 pm https://x.com/bluebloodsbias/status/173 ... 60830?s=20

Looks like FSU is serious about leaving the ACC in light of being left out of the College Football playoffs, and looking at the Big Ten. The thread has a good explanation of how they could survive the GOR issue.
the thread has no explanation for how they came up with $200 million. before any negotiation, the math is:
$30m + annually for 12 years.
3 years of acc payouts for home games (exit).

that's $450 million plus. and that's not including the acc just might want to go ahead and take any team's new, higher payout from their new league instead as negotiating leverage.

also... the totals listed include the new cfp bump. this source is not serious. what it means - prenegotiation, fsu will forfeit all delta for the increased payout (if they even got a full payout) back to the acc. if they want to negotiate it down, they're borrowing it and paying interest.

i can imagine fsu is pretty ticked that they had 3 acc partisans on the committee, including corrigan as the chair, and they submarined them. so i can see them trying something. we'll see how it goes.
Everyone has heard of “present value” and/or “discounted cash flow” here at some point right?

The number is never just algebraic summation. Time value of money has to be accounted for by using a present value factor to discount for the opportunity cost. $200 may be low but simply adding up the payments is not how this or any other breakage of contract has ever worked. The fact that colleges don’t discount coach contracts is embarrassing for some with top 50 B schools.

You say what’s the point? I answer a dollar 12yrs out merely discount by 5% instead of 1% is a massive difference. Like a meaningfully smaller % of 1.0.

So using $450mm is more or less as useless as using 0 as all it doesn’t is establish the wing.

“Saying the math is” is just flat out incorrect. The math is $30mm/1.05 + $30mm/1.05^2 + $30mm/1.05^3….and that’s a very big difference from your number.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22663
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

This is where we are headed. My conclusion 10-15yrs ago on this situation. And death of NCAA oversight for major CFB.

UCLA's Chip Kelly advocates for single Power 5 conference

play
Chip Kelly's proposal to fix college sports (1:55)
Paolo Uggetti, ESPNDec 17, 2023, 01:57 AM ET

In a news conference ahead of UCLA's LA Bowl win over Boise State, Bruins coach Chip Kelly called for a complete revamping of college football's structure following the forthcoming dissolution of the Pac-12.

"It's sad," Kelly said Friday. "The fact that there's not going to be a Pac-12 next year, the fact that Washington State is not going to be [in] a conference next year, the fact that Oregon State is not going to be in a conference next year, we failed."

Kelly's solution includes establishing a conference commissioner and having football break away from other sports, something he has advocated for in the past. As conferences such as the Big Ten, SEC, Big 12 and ACC keep adding teams from, in some cases, both coasts, Kelly's ideal scenario is for a version of independence that leads to consolidation.

"I think we should all be independent in football," Kelly said. "You can have a 64-team conference that's in the Power 5 and you can have a 64-team conference in the Group of 5, and we separate it and we play each other."

Kelly said he believes there should be one TV contract that includes every conference, where potential regional divisions are sponsored by brands and the overall media offering is stronger and more appealing to potential TV partners.

"That's a lot of games, and there's a lot of people in the TV world that would go through it," Kelly said. "You can sponsor each one. Instead of calling it Group of 5 and Power 5, you can call it Amazon, Nike, bid that out to things."

Beyond the branding of conferences and divisions, Kelly explained how he believed the scheduling could work in this new format to retain rivalries while also creating new ones.

"You can have the West Coast teams and then every year, we play seven games against the West Coast teams, and then we play the East," Kelly said. "So we play Syracuse, Boston College, Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia. Then the next year you play against the South while you still play your seven teams. You can play a seven-game schedule, you can play four against another division opponent, and you can always play against one Mountain team every year so that we can still keep those rivalries going."

In what was perhaps the staunchest point of his answer, Kelly called for revenue sharing between schools and players, which, in his mind, would alleviate a lot of the murkiness that name, image and likeness has brought to the sport in recent years.

"The players should get paid, and you can get rid of [NIL] and the schools should be paying the players because the players are what the product is," Kelly said. "And the fact that they don't get paid is, really, the biggest travesty.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
PizzaSnake
Posts: 4853
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by PizzaSnake »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:39 pm This is where we are headed. My conclusion 10-15yrs ago on this situation. And death of NCAA oversight for major CFB.

UCLA's Chip Kelly advocates for single Power 5 conference

play
Chip Kelly's proposal to fix college sports (1:55)
Paolo Uggetti, ESPNDec 17, 2023, 01:57 AM ET

In a news conference ahead of UCLA's LA Bowl win over Boise State, Bruins coach Chip Kelly called for a complete revamping of college football's structure following the forthcoming dissolution of the Pac-12.

"It's sad," Kelly said Friday. "The fact that there's not going to be a Pac-12 next year, the fact that Washington State is not going to be [in] a conference next year, the fact that Oregon State is not going to be in a conference next year, we failed."

Kelly's solution includes establishing a conference commissioner and having football break away from other sports, something he has advocated for in the past. As conferences such as the Big Ten, SEC, Big 12 and ACC keep adding teams from, in some cases, both coasts, Kelly's ideal scenario is for a version of independence that leads to consolidation.

"I think we should all be independent in football," Kelly said. "You can have a 64-team conference that's in the Power 5 and you can have a 64-team conference in the Group of 5, and we separate it and we play each other."

Kelly said he believes there should be one TV contract that includes every conference, where potential regional divisions are sponsored by brands and the overall media offering is stronger and more appealing to potential TV partners.

"That's a lot of games, and there's a lot of people in the TV world that would go through it," Kelly said. "You can sponsor each one. Instead of calling it Group of 5 and Power 5, you can call it Amazon, Nike, bid that out to things."

Beyond the branding of conferences and divisions, Kelly explained how he believed the scheduling could work in this new format to retain rivalries while also creating new ones.

"You can have the West Coast teams and then every year, we play seven games against the West Coast teams, and then we play the East," Kelly said. "So we play Syracuse, Boston College, Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia. Then the next year you play against the South while you still play your seven teams. You can play a seven-game schedule, you can play four against another division opponent, and you can always play against one Mountain team every year so that we can still keep those rivalries going."

In what was perhaps the staunchest point of his answer, Kelly called for revenue sharing between schools and players, which, in his mind, would alleviate a lot of the murkiness that name, image and likeness has brought to the sport in recent years.

"The players should get paid, and you can get rid of [NIL] and the schools should be paying the players because the players are what the product is," Kelly said. "And the fact that they don't get paid is, really, the biggest travesty.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
viho
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:56 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by viho »

Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22663
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Each step sets the precedent further that nothing but the highest media contract is valued. Conferences? Only as valuables as their negotiating ability. Colleges? You better be marketable for your ability coast to coast.

This is the logical conclusion it has to go down this way
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
DocBarrister
Posts: 6303
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by DocBarrister »

viho wrote: Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:53 am Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns
This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

The FSU lawsuit is filed in Tallahassee (of course) and the assigned judge earned both his college and law degrees from FSU.

Would not be surprised if Florida AG Ashley Moody (a Florida grad, ironically) gets involved, either in FSU’s case or in a separate lawsuit.

One thing is for certain, there are other ACC schools that want to leave the ACC. They are simply letting FSU serve as the vanguard and take the lead.

I think it is safe to say that the ACC as we know it is finished.

The conference may survive in some form, but it likely will be a diminished conference.

DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22663
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

DocBarrister wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:43 pm
viho wrote: Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:53 am Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns
This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

The FSU lawsuit is filed in Tallahassee (of course) and the assigned judge earned both his college and law degrees from FSU.

Would not be surprised if Florida AG Ashley Moody (a Florida grad, ironically) gets involved, either in FSU’s case or in a separate lawsuit.

One thing is for certain, there are other ACC schools that want to leave the ACC. They are simply letting FSU serve as the vanguard and take the lead.

I think it is safe to say that the ACC as we know it is finished.

The conference may survive in some form, but it likely will be a diminished conference.

DocBarrister
No conferences is going to survive 10yrs from now. They don’t have any value. Collective negotiation? Not worth it. The whole system is changing and event he conferences winners don’t see the big picture.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
DocBarrister
Posts: 6303
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by DocBarrister »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:47 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:43 pm
viho wrote: Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:53 am Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns
This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

The FSU lawsuit is filed in Tallahassee (of course) and the assigned judge earned both his college and law degrees from FSU.

Would not be surprised if Florida AG Ashley Moody (a Florida grad, ironically) gets involved, either in FSU’s case or in a separate lawsuit.

One thing is for certain, there are other ACC schools that want to leave the ACC. They are simply letting FSU serve as the vanguard and take the lead.

I think it is safe to say that the ACC as we know it is finished.

The conference may survive in some form, but it likely will be a diminished conference.

DocBarrister
No conferences is going to survive 10yrs from now. They don’t have any value. Collective negotiation? Not worth it. The whole system is changing and event he conferences winners don’t see the big picture.
I understand your point.

Still, I think conferences will survive in some form, if nothing else as collective bargaining units for negotiations with media companies.

But we are not even at what I foresee to be the ultimate endgame … a formal merger between one or more major football conferences and one or more major media companies.

Imagine the B1G and SEC formally merging with ESPN and a spun off arm of NBC or Fox sports.

Of course, by then, President AOC, fresh off her successful crushing of the MAGA rebellion (led by Don Jr., Eric, and Ivanka) and the subsequent repeal of the Second Amendment, would order her DOJ to launch an antitrust lawsuit.

DocBarrister 8-)
@DocBarrister
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22663
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

DocBarrister wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:13 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:47 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:43 pm
viho wrote: Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:53 am Here we go. It's going to take time before we sort this mess out.

https://apnews.com/article/florida-stat ... b88b87d623

Florida State has sued the ACC, setting the stage for a fight to leave over revenue concerns
This will be an interesting case, with a competing case filed by the ACC in North Carolina.

FSU is arguing, in part, that the ACC contract is unenforceable under Florida state law:

542.18 Restraint of trade or commerce.—Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce in this state is unlawful.

The FSU lawsuit is filed in Tallahassee (of course) and the assigned judge earned both his college and law degrees from FSU.

Would not be surprised if Florida AG Ashley Moody (a Florida grad, ironically) gets involved, either in FSU’s case or in a separate lawsuit.

One thing is for certain, there are other ACC schools that want to leave the ACC. They are simply letting FSU serve as the vanguard and take the lead.

I think it is safe to say that the ACC as we know it is finished.

The conference may survive in some form, but it likely will be a diminished conference.

DocBarrister
No conferences is going to survive 10yrs from now. They don’t have any value. Collective negotiation? Not worth it. The whole system is changing and event he conferences winners don’t see the big picture.
I understand your point.

Still, I think conferences will survive in some form, if nothing else as collective bargaining units for negotiations with media companies.

But we are not even at what I foresee to be the ultimate endgame … a formal merger between one or more major football conferences and one or more major media companies.

Imagine the B1G and SEC formally merging with ESPN and a spun off arm of NBC or Fox sports.

Of course, by then, President AOC, fresh off her successful crushing of the MAGA rebellion (led by Don Jr., Eric, and Ivanka) and the subsequent repeal of the Second Amendment, would order her DOJ to launch an antitrust lawsuit.

DocBarrister 8-)
I love the idea and it may happen but…

You have an ownership problem then. Because media is going to be owned by hedge funds like newspapers are now and they won’t like opening their books they way they will need to in order to deal with gambling now. BSA/AML if the govt decides they want a look?
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
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