Recruiting

[ultravisitor]

Prior to the championship in 2023, NW hadn't really done..much. Hadn't reached a title game since 2012. Often having good seasons overall before losing to more talented teams in the tournament. You can't bank on finding gems that turn out to be Izzy Scane.

it's very possible the program may resort back to that. Going on another championship drought for 10 years.

You mean the program might go "back to" what it was before winning in 2023? Being a program that had won 7 national championships and played 13 final fours, the most recent final fours having been in 2019, 2021, and 2022? That's still 7 more national championships than other schools (*cough*Syracuse*cough*) that regularly land top recruits, yet for some reason Northwestern's the school that hasn't "really done...much."

This doom-saying based on recruiting classes is really rather ridiculous.

[jff97]

Prior to the championship in 2023, NW hadn't really done..much. Hadn't reached a title game since 2012. Often having good seasons overall before losing to more talented teams in the tournament. You can't bank on finding gems that turn out to be Izzy Scane.

it's very possible the program may resort back to that. Going on another championship drought for 10 years.

You mean the program might go "back to" what it was before winning in 2023? Being a program that had won 7 national championships and played 13 final fours, the most recent final fours having been in 2019, 2021, and 2022? That's still 7 more national championships than other schools (*cough*Syracuse*cough*) that regularly land top recruits, yet for some reason Northwestern's the school that hasn't "really done...much."

This doom-saying based on recruiting classes is really rather ridiculous.

Entering last year, Northwestern had recruited 24 players ranked in ILWomen's top 100 over the previous four years, trailing only Maryland and North Carolina. They have another 5 Top 100 players in the class of 2023. Things don't look quite as great for 2024 or 2025, but those rankings will be updated. The 2024 ranking today is a top 50, so it will double next year. For 2025 they only ranked the top 10 players, listed an additional 20 5 stars and then 50 4 stars, so it's not a big concern if they only have one "ranked" player. The numbers don't quite align with the theory that Northwestern just builds their team off hidden gems, though they don't always get the seemingly can't miss kids. Then again, I'm pretty sure if UNC wasn't gobbling up every five-star in sight, this poster wouldn't be making as big a deal about recruiting rankings.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Prior to the championship in 2023, NW hadn't really done..much. Hadn't reached a title game since 2012. Often having good seasons overall before losing to more talented teams in the tournament. You can't bank on finding gems that turn out to be Izzy Scane.

it's very possible the program may resort back to that. Going on another championship drought for 10 years.

You mean the program might go "back to" what it was before winning in 2023? Being a program that had won 7 national championships and played 13 final fours, the most recent final fours having been in 2019, 2021, and 2022? That's still 7 more national championships than other schools (*cough*Syracuse*cough*) that regularly land top recruits, yet for some reason Northwestern's the school that hasn't "really done...much."

This doom-saying based on recruiting classes is really rather ridiculous.

I understand what Kle's saying here--and I'm a huge Wildcats fan. There was indeed a drought for those years (the decade block he alludes to). He didn't mean before, as in, ever. In 2021 I thought Northwestern had a chance to go back to the final. But then they didn't even show up in the semifinal against Syracuse, getting embarrassed 21-13. Previously, there was the 25-13 carnage at the hands of Maryland in 2019. The years preceding, I never considered them a serious threat to the Terps or the other teams who were making it to the final. Did they get to the final four a few times? Yes they did. But for a team that was used to winning national titles--so what.

I didn't consider the Wildcats a real threat to win it all until Izzy Scane arrived on the scene. Larger than life in skill, purpose and presence--no doubt she was the locomotive engine that fueled NU's return to the pinnacle last year, and will be again in '24. After she and Coykendall lace 'em up for the last time in May, the team will look vastly different in 2025. I can see what Kle references happening again, which doesn't belittle or diminish Northwestern's lasting accomplishments one whit.

[LaxDadMax]

I don't think anyone is questioning KAH's ability to coach and develop players. She does have a knack for finding hidden gems. I just think we're currently evaluating the program on a bit of a curve because they have Izzy Scane. Greatness masks alot of things.

Prior to the championship in 2023, NW hadn't really done..much. Hadn't reached a title game since 2012. Often having good seasons overall before losing to more talented teams in the tournament. You can't bank on finding gems that turn out to be Izzy Scane.

it's very possible the program may resort back to that. Going on another championship drought for 10 years. I could be wrong. But the landscape is changing. Feels like KAH is very old school and it's a turnoff for some players.

Yes recruiting isn't everything but even with that said, there's no reason why NW should only have landed 1 ranked 2025 player after a CHAMPIONSHIP season. A really good player but it just doesn't make sense to me with all that the school and program has going for it. It's just not sustainable in my opinion if you want to consistently get into championship weekend.

I hear your point and there are probably a few misses out there. However, I'd also argue their top 4 2025 recruits ( Brown, Ratanaproeksa (sp?), Scobie, Matter) are as athletic as any top 20 girls.

I'd also argue that if she played for a more well know club, Ratanaproeksa would be a top 10 recruit. My 25 daughter said she was one of the 3 best players she went up against all summer. (Penzak and Dwyer are the others).

[ultravisitor]

Entering last year, Northwestern had recruited 24 players ranked in ILWomen's top 100 over the previous four years, trailing only Maryland and North Carolina. They have another 5 Top 100 players in the class of 2023. Things don't look quite as great for 2024 or 2025, but those rankings will be updated. The 2024 ranking today is a top 50, so it will double next year. For 2025 they only ranked the top 10 players, listed an additional 20 5 stars and then 50 4 stars, so it's not a big concern if they only have one "ranked" player. The numbers don't quite align with the theory that Northwestern just builds their team off hidden gems, though they don't always get the seemingly can't miss kids. Then again, I'm pretty sure if UNC wasn't gobbling up every five-star in sight, this poster wouldn't be making as big a deal about recruiting rankings.

You point out that the numbers don't align with the idea that Northwestern builds their teams off hidden gems instead of by ranked kids, but exactly what is the alignment between recruiting numbers/rankings and seasonal success supposed to be or how is it supposed to look? In the same four year period, how have the recruiting numbers looked for Maryland and how has that aligned with their success in the season and post-season? How have those numbers looked for other schools? I mean, you point out that Northwestern was trailing Maryland in recruiting top players during that time period, but has Northwestern's seasonal and post-seasonal success been trailing Maryland over that same time period?

It's great that some schools regularly attract top recruits, but that's all it is--attracting top recruits--and I don't think it really means any more than that.

[MolonLaxe]

This talk of Northwestern and "hidden" gems, along with player rankings misses a key component of the change that has really helped put them over the top. There are parallels to other sports here, so bare with me for a moment.

The team had a fundamental shift in prioritizing speed and working on speed development in the past 2 years. Too many teams and coaches have attempted to train their teams more like marathon runners and have missed just how much of an advantage player speed is in this game. Other teams had quietly been toiling away here for a while and NU finally jumped on-board with a new philosophy for how their practices are structured, developing player speed, and targeting the fastest players, etc.

Kelly and her team are smart enough to know they can train the best athletes to play, but finding those players that will develop into a Ferrari vs a Ford Mustang is what's helped them the most.

[jff97]

Entering last year, Northwestern had recruited 24 players ranked in ILWomen's top 100 over the previous four years, trailing only Maryland and North Carolina. They have another 5 Top 100 players in the class of 2023. Things don't look quite as great for 2024 or 2025, but those rankings will be updated. The 2024 ranking today is a top 50, so it will double next year. For 2025 they only ranked the top 10 players, listed an additional 20 5 stars and then 50 4 stars, so it's not a big concern if they only have one "ranked" player. The numbers don't quite align with the theory that Northwestern just builds their team off hidden gems, though they don't always get the seemingly can't miss kids. Then again, I'm pretty sure if UNC wasn't gobbling up every five-star in sight, this poster wouldn't be making as big a deal about recruiting rankings.

You point out that the numbers don't align with the idea that Northwestern builds their teams off hidden gems instead of by ranked kids, but exactly what is the alignment between recruiting numbers/rankings and seasonal success supposed to be or how is it supposed to look? In the same four year period, how have the recruiting numbers looked for Maryland and how has that aligned with their success in the season and post-season? How have those numbers looked for other schools? I mean, you point out that Northwestern was trailing Maryland in recruiting top players during that time period, but has Northwestern's seasonal and post-seasonal success been trailing Maryland over that same time period?

It's great that some schools regularly attract top recruits, but that's all it is--attracting top recruits--and I don't think it really means any more than that.

You've actually hit on a good point. Recruiting can only take you so far. The coaching staff still has to continue to develop players when they get to campus. Look at a team like Stanford. However, if you recruit at a high level, it gives you a much higher floor than teams that don't because you theoretically don't have to "coach up" players like they do at other schools. Of course, to win a national championship, you need a combination of elite talent and coaching.
At the end of the day the rankings are a good way to draw more attention to a sport, and brings more discussion fodder to a message board in the offseason . But obviously once the players get to college, the rankings don't really mean all that much anymore in terms of how much they'll play when they get there. Kids in the top 100 have a much better chance of being an AA than those that aren't, but there's no guarantee.

[ultravisitor]

This talk of Northwestern and "hidden" gems, along with player rankings misses a key component of the change that has really helped put them over the top. There are parallels to other sports here, so bare with me for a moment.

The team had a fundamental shift in prioritizing speed and working on speed development in the past 2 years. Too many teams and coaches have attempted to train their teams more like marathon runners and have missed just how much of an advantage player speed is in this game. Other teams had quietly been toiling away here for a while and NU finally jumped on-board with a new philosophy for how their practices are structured, developing player speed, and targeting the fastest players, etc.

Kelly and her team are smart enough to know they can train the best athletes to play, but finding those players that will develop into a Ferrari vs a Ford Mustang is what's helped them the most.

It definitely seems like they have a lot of speedy players in their midfield and defense, and those players are great in transition (and the draw). People mention Sam Smith a lot as being super fast, but Emerson Bohlig is even faster.

[ultravisitor]

Prior to the championship in 2023, NW hadn't really done..much. Hadn't reached a title game since 2012. Often having good seasons overall before losing to more talented teams in the tournament. You can't bank on finding gems that turn out to be Izzy Scane.

it's very possible the program may resort back to that. Going on another championship drought for 10 years.

You mean the program might go "back to" what it was before winning in 2023? Being a program that had won 7 national championships and played 13 final fours, the most recent final fours having been in 2019, 2021, and 2022? That's still 7 more national championships than other schools (*cough*Syracuse*cough*) that regularly land top recruits, yet for some reason Northwestern's the school that hasn't "really done...much."

This doom-saying based on recruiting classes is really rather ridiculous.

I understand what Kle's saying here--and I'm a huge Wildcats fan. There was indeed a drought for those years (the decade block he alludes to). He didn't mean before, as in, ever. In 2021 I thought Northwestern had a chance to go back to the final. But then they didn't even show up in the semifinal against Syracuse, getting embarrassed 21-13. Previously, there was the 25-13 carnage at the hands of Maryland in 2019. The years preceding, I never considered them a serious threat to the Terps or the other teams who were making it to the final. Did they get to the final four a few times? Yes they did. But for a team that was used to winning national titles--so what.

I didn't consider the Wildcats a real threat to win it all until Izzy Scane arrived on the scene. Larger than life in skill, purpose and presence--no doubt she was the locomotive engine that fueled NU's return to the pinnacle last year, and will be again in '24. After she and Coykendall lace 'em up for the last time in May, the team will look vastly different in 2025. I can see what Kle references happening again, which doesn't belittle or diminish Northwestern's lasting accomplishments one whit.

Well, yes, Northwestern had that period of drought, but again, it was also during the worst four years of that drought that Northwestern had a top ranked recruiting class as a significant part of their team, so I’m not sure what conclusions can be drawn based on these recruiting rankings.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Well, yes, Northwestern had that period of drought, but again, it was also during the worst four years of that drought that Northwestern had a top ranked recruiting class as a significant part of their team, so I’m not sure what conclusions can be drawn based on these recruiting rankings.

Agreed. My eyes were opened for good when I saw the lack of impact/playing time of the younger Hasselbeck at BC. A spectacular high school career does not always transition to the college ranks.

[LaxDadMax]

Well, yes, Northwestern had that period of drought, but again, it was also during the worst four years of that drought that Northwestern had a top ranked recruiting class as a significant part of their team, so I’m not sure what conclusions can be drawn based on these recruiting rankings.

Agreed. My eyes were opened for good when I saw the lack of impact/playing time of the younger Hasselbeck at BC. A spectacular high school career does not always transition to the college ranks.

Yes. The other challenge is getting players who comfortable excelling off the ball, which is a rare trait for top 50 attackers and middies.

[Relax77]

Well, yes, Northwestern had that period of drought, but again, it was also during the worst four years of that drought that Northwestern had a top ranked recruiting class as a significant part of their team, so I’m not sure what conclusions can be drawn based on these recruiting rankings.

Agreed. My eyes were opened for good when I saw the lack of impact/playing time of the younger Hasselbeck at BC. A spectacular high school career does not always transition to the college ranks.

It’s this for me. Just because inside Lacrosse is telling me a someone is the top ranked player as a 16 year old
A. Doesn’t mean I agree with it
And
B doesn’t mean she’s gonna be able to handle the top defenders on the highest level, some of which will be 4-5 years older than her.

I think a large amount of these coaches want top notch athletes first and foremost. Can’t teach athleticism.

[hmmm]

Well, yes, Northwestern had that period of drought, but again, it was also during the worst four years of that drought that Northwestern had a top ranked recruiting class as a significant part of their team, so I’m not sure what conclusions can be drawn based on these recruiting rankings.

Agreed. My eyes were opened for good when I saw the lack of impact/playing time of the younger Hasselbeck at BC. A spectacular high school career does not always transition to the college ranks.

Not sure how you reckon she had a spectacular HS career. Her Junior year was canceled due to Covid and she didn't play her senior year due to a torn ACL. Not to mention her HS didn't exactly play a top schedule. Always thought it was odd she jumped up to the #1 recruit spot after not playing for 2 years when she wasn't ranked that high previously.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Well, yes, Northwestern had that period of drought, but again, it was also during the worst four years of that drought that Northwestern had a top ranked recruiting class as a significant part of their team, so I’m not sure what conclusions can be drawn based on these recruiting rankings.

Agreed. My eyes were opened for good when I saw the lack of impact/playing time of the younger Hasselbeck at BC. A spectacular high school career does not always transition to the college ranks.

Not sure how you reckon she had a spectacular HS career. Her Junior year was canceled due to Covid and she didn't play her senior year due to a torn ACL. Not to mention her HS didn't exactly play a top schedule. Always thought it was odd she jumped up to the #1 recruit spot after not playing for 2 years when she wasn't ranked that high previously.

I made two separate thoughts seem like they were connected. Definitely misleading on my part.

Though the HS career doesn't apply to MH, it happens every year with many going from HS to college. Highly ranked going into college then underachieving (according to the rankings and the hype, anyway) once playing in college.

[MolonLaxe]

Well, yes, Northwestern had that period of drought, but again, it was also during the worst four years of that drought that Northwestern had a top ranked recruiting class as a significant part of their team, so I’m not sure what conclusions can be drawn based on these recruiting rankings.

Agreed. My eyes were opened for good when I saw the lack of impact/playing time of the younger Hasselbeck at BC. A spectacular high school career does not always transition to the college ranks.

Not sure how you reckon she had a spectacular HS career. Her Junior year was canceled due to Covid and she didn't play her senior year due to a torn ACL. Not to mention her HS didn't exactly play a top schedule. Always thought it was odd she jumped up to the #1 recruit spot after not playing for 2 years when she wasn't ranked that high previously.

Too many commentators and writers get caught up in the pedigree of the player, rather than their actual skills. Just because your dad and mom played in college doesn't mean you'll be as good as them. Nor does it mean you're a lock, but this logical fallacy is often taken on by coaches as well. One can make a better determination of skills by removing the last names and just watching them play. I always thought the Hasselbeck kids were a bit overrated. Just my personal opinion.

[Relax77]

I also think it matters where they play. Maybe people would have a difference of opinion if they were playing everyday and not on a team that went to a good amount of final fours the last ten years. If Hasselbeck was putting up points at UConn I bet a lot of people would have a difference of opinion of her. Or maybe not.

[spidey44]

I'd also argue that if she played for a more well know club, Ratanaproeksa would be a top 10 recruit. My 25 daughter said she was one of the 3 best players she went up against all summer. (Penzak and Dwyer are the others).

Interesting...my daughter's team played her and I didn't notice anyone stand out from her team. Maybe if I watch the tape again knowing who to look at I'd notice.

[Madlax59]

Well, yes, Northwestern had that period of drought, but again, it was also during the worst four years of that drought that Northwestern had a top ranked recruiting class as a significant part of their team, so I’m not sure what conclusions can be drawn based on these recruiting rankings.

Agreed. My eyes were opened for good when I saw the lack of impact/playing time of the younger Hasselbeck at BC. A spectacular high school career does not always transition to the college ranks.

Not sure how you reckon she had a spectacular HS career. Her Junior year was canceled due to Covid and she didn't play her senior year due to a torn ACL. Not to mention her HS didn't exactly play a top schedule. Always thought it was odd she jumped up to the #1 recruit spot after not playing for 2 years when she wasn't ranked that high previously.

Yeah I’d like to know the same thing ? I guess spectacular as a 9th and 10 th grader ?? Father is famous and out spoken maybe that had something to do with it

[hmmm]

I also think it matters where they play. Maybe people would have a difference of opinion if they were playing everyday and not on a team that went to a good amount of final fours the last ten years. If Hasselbeck was putting up points at UConn I bet a lot of people would have a difference of opinion of her. Or maybe not.

Topic made me curious as my daughter was in the 2021 class so I did some quick research. I think COVID 5th years have had a huge effect on the 2020-2022 class and as you can see from the IL Top 50 2021s below, 30 of the 50 have started less than 10 games. 21 of 50 have yet to start a game in their college careers. In particular, 5 of the top 6 haven't started a single game. It's always tough to get on the field early at top programs, but the 5th years have really hurt the development of these classes.

**Sorry for the formatting. They were in columns when I submitted.

Name Original School GP GS Transferred to
Mallory Hasselbeck Boston College 33 0
Madison Sterling Maryland 8 0
Summer Agostino Boston College 10 0 Clemson
Emma LoPinto Boston College 43 43 BC
Demma Hall Maryland 7 0 Clemson
Maddigan Miller Stanford 18 0
McKenzie Blake Princeton 34 34
Sammy White Northwestern 43 38
Kennedy Major Maryland 22 22
Rachel Clark Boston College 38 38
Nina Montes Princeton 32 2
Christina Gagnon USC 38 0
Chase Boyle Loyola 44 22
Paris Colgain Johns Hopkins 29 18
Grace Weigand Notre Dame 39 21
Kerry Nease Duke 26 2
Jordyn Lipkin Maryland 40 0
Mckenna Davis Boston College 46 23
Jordyn Case Stanford Injured Both Years
Natasha Gorriaran Penn 34 20
Emily Lamparter Maryland 22 18 Clemson
Emily Messinese Navy 24 24
Samantha Smith Northwestern 43 27
Samantha Forrest North Carolina 10 0
Leah Warehime Georgetown 15 0
Shira Parower James Madison 10 0 Syracuse
Margaret Lawler Ohio State 6 4
Alexis Niblock USC 31 20
Kylie Gelabert Cornell 30 0
Celeste Forte Florida 19 1
Fallon Vaughn Yale 33 33
Haley Polk Michigan 8 0
Kate Miller Virginia 38 0
Tia Reaman Princeton 5 0
Maddie Dora USC 38 9
Kennedy Everson Duke 13 2
Hailey Russo Maryland 10 0
Olivia Pikiell North Carolina 11 0
Jade Catlin Va Tech 33 24 Umass Lowell
Brooke Hoss Penn State 32 17
Abby Jansen Virginia 22 7
Caitlin McElwee JMU 13 0 Clemson
Reilly Traynor Duke 38 20
Mattie Shearer Duke 19 0
Alexis Lauricella Harvard Never on Roster
Olivia Adamson Syracuse 42 14
Marleigh Sanders Notre Dame 11 0
Annabel Frist Stanford 36 36
Shannon Garvey Virginia 7 0
McKenna Harden North Carolina 14 1

[Dr. Tact]

Can’t teach athleticism.

yep. no truer evaluation than that.